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Daxx

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Re: The US should RAISE taxes https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21635.msg310553#msg310553
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2011, 06:27:28 pm »
The biggest problem that you face in this regard is that extra government spending by your incumbent party is not politically tenable, especially after the two stimulus plans pushed by Bush and Obama have largely led to lacklustre recovery, and the Tea Party "gubmit spending BAD" meme has taken hold.

I for one would like to see significant US govt. investment in healthcare services and infrastructure building. Neither of these is particularly likely.

Offline Belthus

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Re: The US should RAISE taxes https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21635.msg310853#msg310853
« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2011, 04:51:29 am »
The biggest problem that you face in this regard is that extra government spending by your incumbent party is not politically tenable, especially after the two stimulus plans pushed by Bush and Obama have largely led to lacklustre recovery, and the Tea Party "gubmit spending BAD" meme has taken hold.

I for one would like to see significant US govt. investment in healthcare services and infrastructure building. Neither of these is particularly likely.
True, and part of the blame goes to Obama and the Democrats. They accept the Republicans' framing on every issue and make premature concessions. The stimulus was very small, given the size of the output gap and the two-year time frame. The Democrats had one shot and wouldn't be able to come back for a second round. They should have fought for a bigger stimulus instead of a small one that wouldn't get the job done, thereby giving ammunition to the naysayers.

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Re: The US should RAISE taxes https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21635.msg311128#msg311128
« Reply #26 on: April 13, 2011, 05:24:25 pm »
politicians are jut way too concerned about appeasing people to get things done. They should have been elected to make the tough necessary cuts, not to try to please everyone so they can keep office for another term.

Thats why ALL entitlement programs should be cut. Every last one of them. If you disagree, please let me know what you thikn should stay
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Daxx

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Re: The US should RAISE taxes https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21635.msg314865#msg314865
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2011, 05:58:26 pm »
Thats why ALL entitlement programs should be cut. Every last one of them. If you disagree, please let me know what you thikn should stay
You might have to clarify your definition of "entitlement program", because it sounds like you're advocating cutting all social support programs.

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Re: The US should RAISE taxes https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21635.msg315178#msg315178
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2011, 04:31:09 am »
Thats why ALL entitlement programs should be cut. Every last one of them. If you disagree, please let me know what you thikn should stay
You might have to clarify your definition of "entitlement program", because it sounds like you're advocating cutting all social support programs.
Yep. I am. Instead of defending which programs we shouldnt cut, I think it would be better to start from a clean slate, cut them all, and decide which programs we should fund. Now obviously the bill cutting all the programs would require the bill that has important social service programs to be passed at the same time otherwise there would be weeks without those programs while congress is debating. Which programs should be kept though? Are ALL social service programs necessary? I dare say not, so instead, why not cut them all, and lets see which ones are actually worth it by deciding which ones to put in place.
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Offline Belthus

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Re: The US should RAISE taxes https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21635.msg315210#msg315210
« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2011, 05:37:29 am »
Yep. I am. Instead of defending which programs we shouldnt cut, I think it would be better to start from a clean slate, cut them all, and decide which programs we should fund. Now obviously the bill cutting all the programs would require the bill that has important social service programs to be passed at the same time otherwise there would be weeks without those programs while congress is debating. Which programs should be kept though? Are ALL social service programs necessary? I dare say not, so instead, why not cut them all, and lets see which ones are actually worth it by deciding which ones to put in place.
Is every defense program necessary? No. So let's cut them all and let them reapply for funding one by one. Is every employee in your firm worth the salary? No. Fire them all and let them reapply. Sorry, but this would be a recipe for disaster. I hope you don't have any supervisory responsibilities.

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Re: The US should RAISE taxes https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21635.msg315362#msg315362
« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2011, 01:18:48 pm »

Yep. I am. Instead of defending which programs we shouldnt cut, I think it would be better to start from a clean slate, cut them all, and decide which programs we should fund. Now obviously the bill cutting all the programs would require the bill that has important social service programs to be passed at the same time otherwise there would be weeks without those programs while congress is debating. Which programs should be kept though? Are ALL social service programs necessary? I dare say not, so instead, why not cut them all, and lets see which ones are actually worth it by deciding which ones to put in place.
emphasis added. Obviously you should have a plan, as such a cut should also come with programs being added if not done properly. There are 2 things that politicians hate doing.
Cutting Programs
Funding Programs
This would automatically do the first one, and before its passed, a bill would be passed alongside it that would state which programs congress decided to fund, and then the left and right wingers can duke it out to see which ones of their pet programs would get passed after it is all said and done.

honestly though, which programs would make that big a deal if they were cut?
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Daxx

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Re: The US should RAISE taxes https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21635.msg322108#msg322108
« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2011, 09:31:27 pm »
emphasis added. Obviously you should have a plan, as such a cut should also come with programs being added if not done properly. There are 2 things that politicians hate doing.
Cutting Programs
Funding Programs
This would automatically do the first one, and before its passed, a bill would be passed alongside it that would state which programs congress decided to fund, and then the left and right wingers can duke it out to see which ones of their pet programs would get passed after it is all said and done.
This is just a terrible excuse for cutting swathes of programs because you don't understand their value, and not sensible policy by even the slightest margin.

What you're essentially proposing is the removal of every progressive measure that has been fought for tooth and nail since the foundation of your country if not before, and years of strife as all social services are removed. Important social initiatives like healthcare provision, education and military expenditure take years if not decades to propose, form and pass through legislative bodies. Furthermore, it's also fairly transparent in its aim to cut all programs and then attempt to block them indefinitely simply because you don't understand/like them.

honestly though, which programs would make that big a deal if they were cut?
Let's just list the basics for now, as we could be here for a while otherwise.

Government spending on healthcare for children, the elderly, and emergency treatment.
Welfare for the most destitute. (Along with the above, this would result in the deaths of significant numbers of people)
The entire education system from teachers to pupils.
The military, especially procurement and training.
Disaster planning and response.
Infrastructure building.

Or, to put it another way, what have the Romans ever done for us?

stujo3

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Re: The US should RAISE taxes https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21635.msg324376#msg324376
« Reply #32 on: May 01, 2011, 06:25:33 pm »
Dont cut taxes we have a $14,000,000,000,000 debt. I am no fan of high taxes but unless we can start drilling our own oil,stop printing a whole bunch of money higher than what its worth, and make our own stuff,I see no other option. :(

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Re: The US should RAISE taxes https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21635.msg324491#msg324491
« Reply #33 on: May 01, 2011, 07:59:29 pm »
-snip-
Americas spending is out of control. Plain and simple. Instead of keeping programs from either party that are there for the votes, we need to cut them. Its plain and simple. Its great to fund things, WHEN WE CAN AFFORD IT. We cant be funding a whole bunch of things though.
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Offline Belthus

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Re: The US should RAISE taxes https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21635.msg324525#msg324525
« Reply #34 on: May 01, 2011, 08:33:21 pm »
Americas spending is out of control. Plain and simple. Instead of keeping programs from either party that are there for the votes, we need to cut them. Its plain and simple. Its great to fund things, WHEN WE CAN AFFORD IT. We cant be funding a whole bunch of things though.
Unemployment is close to 10% - much higher using more realistic measures. Factories are idle. Office buildings are vacant. All that means the economy is not operating at full capacity, so spending is too low, not too high. We can't afford smaller deficits. Smaller deficits would mean a smaller private sector because (1) less spending means less money going into the private sector and (2) more taxes means more money is coming out of the private sector. Cutting spending now is a recipe for recession, which makes deficits even worse.

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Re: The US should RAISE taxes https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21635.msg324705#msg324705
« Reply #35 on: May 02, 2011, 12:29:00 am »
Unemployment is close to 10% - much higher using more realistic measures. Factories are idle. Office buildings are vacant. All that means the economy is not operating at full capacity, so spending is too low, not too high. We can't afford smaller deficits. Smaller deficits would mean a smaller private sector because (1) less spending means less money going into the private sector and (2) more taxes means more money is coming out of the private sector. Cutting spending now is a recipe for recession, which makes deficits even worse.
So it has nothing to do with all the restrictions placed on buisnesses that make them hire thousands of overseas workers instead of having them here? Ok, thats good to know.

2 things need to happen.
1)Tax Loopholes that allow big companies to pay next to nothing on taxes need to be closed. (one of my few not so conservative beliefs)
2)Regulations that force companies to do their work overseas needs to be stopped.
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