Firstly @Belthus, this isnt reductum ad Hitler. I'm not comparing to nazis because they are evil. I am comparing to them because there is nothing else so similar. I do not want to be right, I really hope you can laugh in my face next year, or in 5 years, or 10. But I fear you will not be able to. Better safe then sorry in this matter.
I do hope this is a troll post. If so, disregard the following. If not, here are my refutations to your points.
Okay, so the bill is bad. But I'd doubt that things are as bad/similar as you say they are.
1- The economy is bad, but nowhere near as bad as the Great Depression. Thankfully, we've learned somewhat from that, though obviously not enough for those without a stable job. Still, conditions are not as bad as in the 1930s.
2- Don't all people want a leader they like? Tell me when we've elected who we thought could not lead from the outset.
3- Separation of church and state is one of the things that I am proud to support. A complete ban on religion would be terrible, yes. But complete devotion to a
religion by the state would also be bad. Both extremes oppress the people. What the USA has now is not perfect, but certainly more balanced, and workable. Prayer is not banned- enforced prayer is. Anyone can pray, but no school authority can force people to follow the prayer or enforce silence. People may do so out of their own respect, but prayer simply cannot be mandated. That is all. There is no other restriction.
4- Christmas. Seriously. Christmas? It's more Big Business with the holiday shopping season than actual organized religion these days. Why does it need to be a holiday to give/buy gifts? Calling it 'the holiday season' reflects the diversity of our beliefs (the politically correct explanation) and the active role B.B. has in drumming up sales. (Probably the actual reason)
5- Again, religion is your private belief. Beliefs are protected under human rights. Pushing those beliefs onto others is not. Schools are for all people, not just for those who celebrate Easter or any other holiday.
6- Compare violence in the US to other nations with more restrictions on their firearms. No contest.
7- Name an example of where the IRS would revoke a church's tax-free status of the church. What would the church have done? Also, religion is rapidly being more
and more commercialized. Televangelists, anyone?
8- Protecting the environment is important. Nowhere in the bible (or any other religious text I know of) does it say, thou must kill the planet We all share this Earth, and it's our duty to preserve it for those who follow us.
9- Yes, the government does regulate our educations. But if not humanist views, then what? Fascism?Ultra Nationalism? Theocracy?
10- Political correctness attempts not to offend anyone. I believe that politeness and respect are good things, despite the futility of trying to implement it. Of course, in doing this, it always offends someone. Is there a point that you mention the cross?
11- And, *gasp* so has every other functioning nation-state in the world. If the economy is broken, it will either
a. remain broken as nobody does anything or not enough is done.
b. slowly, barely, recovering, due to action taken by a group- be it the government or the people. Show me an example where what you advocate would fix the economy.
12- This point goes against your case. You're arguing against the expansion of government.
13- The Weimar republic failed because of the harsh Treaty of Versailles. It was not a functioning democracy. If you've noticed, we are still a capitalist nation. Just look at our military budget and big corporations. We're in a bad shape, yes. But nowhere that desperate.
14- So does Canada. And a lot of the world today. Are they evil?
15- Possible. I don't know enough about it either way.
16- True enough, but remember Pearl Harbour. The same case applies to us in WWII, but I sincerely doubt that we told the Japanese to bomb Pearl Harbour. Remember, that the average American in WWII did not know of the Atlantic Charter and our specific war aims.
Right it isnt a troll post, I am actually concern, and actively trying to convince friends and family to move away if Ron Paul isnt elected. (Please do not argue about him here, i think he is our only hope but I wish to remain on topic namely the NDAA)
1. The economy is WORSE then the great depression. At least the market crashed back then, the current economy is worse because the crash is being postponed, ultimately making the depression afterwards worse.
2. Fair point, but we really want on now. We want someone who we can believe in, and trust, and have faith in. Someone who talks eloquently.
3. "public schools are banned from conducting religious observances such as prayer." as of said date before (1962-63). I believe as you do it shouldnt be enforced or banned. A teacher who is a Christan should be able to invite the class to pray with him if they want, but not to force anyone to do it.
4. I didnt bring up the consumerism as that subject has been beaten death elsewhere. Eitherway the actual event is actively ignored. And political correctness is just stupid, I want a policeman or a policewomen, not officer not policeperson.
5. it is a general effect on the whole population. it is politically incorrect to point out the religious holiday that is ever so close. not exactly a major point i know.
6. Really you want this? Well crime is down in the states but no one has a reason why. It is theorized that a mix of tougher sentences, abortions (less unwanted babies), change in drug trade, or other factors. Obviously it isnt about the guns though.
6a. USA Has about 88.8 small firearms per 100 people. Has about 40% of homicides involve a gun. Homicide rate 9.1 per 100k pop. (source: Amnesty International)
6b. Germany Has about 30.3 small firearms per 100 people. Has about 28.5% of homicides involve a gun. Homicide rate 1.6 per 100k pop. (firearm homicide rate is about 0.46 per 100k population) (source: The Eighth United Nations Survey on Crime Trends and the Operations of Criminal Justice Systems (2002) (United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, Centre for International Crime Prevention)
Thats only homicide. Now it is ranked #1 in sheer amount of crime, with germany coming 3rd. I propose that is an unfair comparison due to population of each country being different. Hence my more friendly statistics above. China has a rate of 1.12 per 100k and while not an expert on their laws I can safely assume that they are stronger then US laws.
Personally I prefer countries where anyone is allowed to have a gun, it prevents the military from simply breaking in the door... oh wait they can do that now. Not sure how this helps or proves anything. I recommend this argument be taken else where if you wish to have it.
7. There are currently 475 churches under this threat, i refer to Pulpit Freedom Sunday, it is a demonstration, of sorts, and a test of freedom of religion as an IRS law says pastors endorsing political candidates from the pulpit can mean forfeiture of their 501(c)(3) tax exempt status. It is a question of free speech. And the IRS is damned if they do make good on the threat and damned if that dont.
“Pastors and churches shouldn’t live in fear of being punished or penalized by the government,” said ADF Senior Legal Counsel Erik Stanley. “Churches should be allowed to decide for themselves what they want to talk about. The IRS should not be the one making the decision by threatening to revoke a church’s tax-exempt status. No government-recognized status can be conditioned upon the surrender of a constitutionally protected right. That’s why ADF started Pulpit Freedom Sunday: to get the government out of the pulpits of America." (info current as of 3.Oct.2011)
8. Agree, but we do it to the point of stupidity, a country needs to use it's own resources at least partly.
9. I believe the federal government should have no laws, regulations, or board of education. It is a matter best left to each state.
10. I mention religious objects from Christianity because they are the most noticeable. I know that the USA isnt entirely Christian. But there is always some story about a 10 commandments being removed from a courthouse, or a nativity being cited in front of a firefighter station. Even some churches dont have a public cross. It is part of our culture, the laws of countries are partly based on the founders religion. We shouldnt remove something that has been there for decades or longer. Also in germany the cross was replaced, The other reason i bring it up.
11. Not Estonia for example, they were worth considered worthless by every nation power around and thus managed to design their economy into a powerhouse...
11a. Nothing should be done! Thats the cause of most of the problems, the government is bailing out companies that banks wouldnt loan to if they had the money to do so. The market self regulates, bad things dont function and aren't bought. Good things are bought and improved. If someone does it cheaper then people buy it there. ETC. Remove the taxes, remove the regulation, remove it all!
11b. um, ok yea sure be glad to. One remove all socialism from the market. Yes this will cause companies to crash, and the market will crash too. However the sooner this happens the sooner it will rebalance from years of socialism and over-regulation. If we continue to bail out companies and banks that are failing already then we make the inevitable crash worse. Its like pushing a slightly too old piece of cheese to the back of the refrigerator over and over. Eventually you have to get it out, do it before it has expanded to coat the whole back wall.
12. Hows it go against my point? I pointed out that this verse was used a lot in 1930-1940 germany, and is also being used today. We being in a republic have the right to participate (still) we can elect someone different who isnt from the uniparty.
13. Wait... our military budget that is paid by what? nothing, it isnt being paid, it will take ages to pay it. The USA is in so much debt even my mind has trouble dealing with the numbers. The USA has about $15 TRILLION in debt. Let me help you visualize this.
-Suppose I gave you a thousand dollar bill and said you and a friend had to spend it all in a single evening out on the town. You’d have a pretty good time.
-Now suppose you had a stack of thousand dollar bills that was four inches in height. If you did, you know what? Congratulations, you’d be a millionaire.
-Now suppose you wanted to enter the super-elite of the wealthy and have a billion dollars. How tall of a stack of thousand dollar bills would that be? The answer is a stack only 358 feet high, barely reaching 1/3rd of the way up the Petronas towers.
-Now how about a stack of thousand dollar bills to equal a trillion dollars? How tall would that stack be? Think of an answer. Well, that stack would be 67.9 miles high. And I meant stack, not laid end to end or anything cheesy like that. A solid stack of thousand dollar bills, 67.9 miles high. Now that’s a trillion dollars.
The USA has to pay 15 of those stacks, but currently the stacks are only getting bigger.
The USA BIG corporations that recently received government bailouts? I'm i missing something? that sounds very socialist. Also they are about to crash anyway.
14. Nope, just pointing it out. Your mistaking my list as some way to compare something to hitler to make it seem evil. It is just a list of things that are similar, I'm not saying it is evil, just that the potencial is there. the ability to become evil is there. As OldTrees points out, it is perfect for a dictator.
15. I accept that. I would recommend (if your interested) to look for a video of the towers falling, and to watch several controlled demolitions of large buildings with similar structure. Notice how they tend to fall without falling to either side at almost free fall speeds.
16. Yes, but the towers were actually designed to withstand a jet airliner hit. There are people who were "on" the plane that were still alive because they weren't on it!
No we didnt invite pearl harbor. That is a different situation and not a good comparison. As for the average person not knowing, we didnt need to we had an enemy that was actually there as for the object... um to win, see with an actual enemy there is no need to have some declaration of a goal, the objective was to survive and defeat the enemy. Unlike the faceless phantom of terrorist groups, we need objectives so that we can justify a total hoax.We are being lied to, there were no weapons of mass destruction in iraq. Saddam wasn't killed just outside of Pakistan (and I refuse to believe otherwise, there is no proof his was killed by that US Operation, not even his head? His DNA was on file, I don't buy the lie). The USA has sanctions on Syria ... I can only assume they are next. (While I am at it, we had no business in korea, iraq the first time, vietnam, iraq now, iran, afganistan now, etc)
@OldTrees, thank you for that. It makes my superficial similarities seem trivial. However look at the them together and it paints a much more disturbing image. The next president is a dictator, complete with the feudal power to imprison his own subjects on a whim.
Sorry I know to you told me to ignore it but, I couldnt.
