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Offline BluePriestTopic starter

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Re: My view on abortion, and both parents rights to the baby. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24769.msg315848#msg315848
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2011, 12:40:58 am »
Quote from: OldTrees on April 20, 2011, 12:30:38 am
I said more not all. I have said the extent of my opinions on the matter.
It was just a simple question though. If they have more say, then what power does that more say, even if its 51-49 have? If you have more power, you have the final say.
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Offline OldTrees

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Re: My view on abortion, and both parents rights to the baby. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24769.msg315856#msg315856
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2011, 12:54:15 am »
Quote from: BluePriest on April 20, 2011, 12:40:58 am
Quote from: OldTrees on April 20, 2011, 12:30:38 am
I said more not all. I have said the extent of my opinions on the matter.
It was just a simple question though. If they have more say, then what power does that more say, even if its 51-49 have? If you have more power, you have the final say.
It is a question that I have not examined for an answer.
I personally would give full authority to my wife in that matter and I have no right to impose on another relationship on that topic.

So I claim that in the conversation (note: conversation is not the same as an argument) the mother's opinion has more weight. But the difference may be insignificant, significant or total. I do not know and do not have an opinion.
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Offline Neopergoss

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Re: My view on abortion, and both parents rights to the baby. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24769.msg315865#msg315865
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2011, 01:09:45 am »
Quote from: BluePriest on April 20, 2011, 12:40:58 am
Quote from: OldTrees on April 20, 2011, 12:30:38 am
I said more not all. I have said the extent of my opinions on the matter.
It was just a simple question though. If they have more say, then what power does that more say, even if its 51-49 have? If you have more power, you have the final say.
I think OldTrees has summed up the moral considerations well. We disagree about the relative values of a few different things.
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Offline Seiya

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Re: My view on abortion, and both parents rights to the baby. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24769.msg315886#msg315886
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2011, 01:25:38 am »
From what I saw of this conversation, OldTrees didn't even evaluate moral implications.  All he said was that anything can have value if someone is willing to value it.  In addition, this isn't determining law based on religious reasons.  Abortions are legal.  On the other hand, whether or not someone has abortion or not is their own decision that is to be evaluated with their own methods. 
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Offline Belthus

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Re: My view on abortion, and both parents rights to the baby. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24769.msg315889#msg315889
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2011, 01:27:47 am »
Maybe someday we will have Star Trek technology that allows us to create a male womb and beam the fetus out of the woman and into the man. Until that day comes, a man shouldn't be able to force a woman to carry the fetus for nine months. Babies are easy to make. If the man can't convince the woman to have one, he should find a woman who wants the same thing he wants.
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Offline Neopergoss

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Re: My view on abortion, and both parents rights to the baby. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24769.msg315890#msg315890
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2011, 01:29:31 am »
Quote from: Seiya on April 20, 2011, 01:25:38 am
From what I saw of this conversation, OldTrees didn't even evaluate moral implications.  All he said was that anything can have value if someone is willing to value it.  In addition, this isn't determining law based on religious reasons.  Abortions are legal.  On the other hand, whether or not someone has abortion or not is their own decision that is to be evaluated with their own methods.
Abortions are legal, but this thread is about the father's "right" to an unborn child. That language, to me, implies that there should be a law guaranteeing that right.
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Offline Newbiecake

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Re: My view on abortion, and both parents rights to the baby. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24769.msg315929#msg315929
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2011, 02:31:46 am »
Abortion is wrong, no matter what the situations is. If you didn't want a child, perheps refrain from intercourse until you have enough money to afford a child or just practice abstenance. Abortion is killing!
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Offline Nepycros

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Re: My view on abortion, and both parents rights to the baby. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24769.msg315931#msg315931
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2011, 02:33:09 am »
Quote from: Noobiecakes on April 20, 2011, 02:31:46 am
Abortion is wrong, no matter what the situations is. If you didn't want a child, perheps refrain from intercourse until you have enough money to afford a child or just practice abstenance. Abortion is killing!
Rape?
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Offline Newbiecake

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Re: My view on abortion, and both parents rights to the baby. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24769.msg315932#msg315932
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2011, 02:35:04 am »
Quote from: Nepycros on April 20, 2011, 02:33:09 am
Quote from: Noobiecakes on April 20, 2011, 02:31:46 am
Abortion is wrong, no matter what the situations is. If you didn't want a child, perheps refrain from intercourse until you have enough money to afford a child or just practice abstenance. Abortion is killing!
Rape?
Go to the hospital right away and take those medicine they give you. Although, if you're unable to do so, that's different...
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Offline OldTrees

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Re: My view on abortion, and both parents rights to the baby. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24769.msg315934#msg315934
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2011, 02:35:11 am »
Quote from: Noobiecakes on April 20, 2011, 02:31:46 am
Abortion is wrong, no matter what the situations is. If you didn't want a child, perheps refrain from intercourse until you have enough money to afford a child or just practice abstenance. Abortion is killing!
Abortion being killing does not immoral if it is immoral.
Eating plants kills plants. Eating meat kills animals. Hence survival requires killing. Since killing is required for living and living is permissible, killing is not impermissible.

Abortion may or may not be immoral but the fact that living matter dies is not the reason either way.
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"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
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Offline Nepycros

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Re: My view on abortion, and both parents rights to the baby. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24769.msg315938#msg315938
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2011, 02:37:20 am »
Quote from: Noobiecakes on April 20, 2011, 02:35:04 am
Quote from: Nepycros on April 20, 2011, 02:33:09 am
Quote from: Noobiecakes on April 20, 2011, 02:31:46 am
Abortion is wrong, no matter what the situations is. If you didn't want a child, perheps refrain from intercourse until you have enough money to afford a child or just practice abstenance. Abortion is killing!
Rape?
Go to the hospital right away and take those medicine they give you. Although, if you're unable to do so, that's different...
Which is it then?

There are obviously parameters here that aren't being observed.
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Offline BluePriestTopic starter

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Re: My view on abortion, and both parents rights to the baby. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24769.msg315946#msg315946
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2011, 02:42:45 am »
Can we please not turn this into yet another topic about if abortion is moral or not? I have been trying very hard to make it clear that is NOT the point of this topic, NOR DOES IT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS TOPIC
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