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Offline Essence

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Re: Is living a life of luxury while others starve immoral? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27852.msg355499#msg355499
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2011, 06:40:34 pm »
Truth be told, you're right. If America really wanted to defeat the Taliban, we'd be giving to them, not killing them.  Twinkies are as sure a death as bullets, they just take a couple of generations to kick in.  Meanwhile, they'd love us and we'd be saving our soldiers and our money. :)


Quote
Sure, there are things you could do that would help to ensure the desired outcome and expedite the process, but do you really care that much?
^^ This.  It's my entire point. :)
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Offline Jangoo

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Re: Is living a life of luxury while others starve immoral? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27852.msg355511#msg355511
« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2011, 07:02:26 pm »

[... Eugentical, social-darwinist, whatever elaborations ...]
Kael, what are you even trying to say that SOMEHOW relates to the topic?

Are you saying that any riches and luxury you may have relate directly to your ability to adapt to nowadays world,
that you totally deserve every penny and more than that: Every penny ought to go to yourself?
Are you saying that those born rich and living richer in the USA or in Europe are stronger and fitter, hence
more worthy to live, than those born starved and living in starvation somewhere in Africa or Asia?

Seriously, unless it is along these line, I don't get your point.


Kael Hate

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Re: Is living a life of luxury while others starve immoral? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27852.msg355513#msg355513
« Reply #38 on: June 23, 2011, 07:07:22 pm »
Quote
You try to do something and your expectations are denied.
Are they?  I certainly don't think so.  Why do you decide that my efforts are ineffective? 
Are your efforts effective? Are you attempting to prevent starvation considering it Immoral and that you as part of a community group that includes the starving should do something? Show me that you are succeeding and that now because of your efforts there is less starvation and not more.



Quote
The action needed to be taken must be decisive.
Right!  And if you believed your own words enough to act on them, you would be busy making a plan.  A single dedicated human being can totally accomplish the destruction of billions of individuals.  Are you doing research?  Finding the most likely ways of obliterating vast quantities of people?  Don't limit yourself to instant destruction, either -- keep in mind that a slow death that takes a few generations to kick in is completely an option, and if you pull it off you won't ever get persecuted because people are stupid and they won't realize what you've done until after your dead.

You're making excuses instead of taking action.  It dramatically weakens the notion that you actually believe what you're saying.
I'm not making excuse. I'm pointing out fact.
I also believe my actions are commiting the best they can to my beliefs, its why I do them.
If I thought it was against my cause I would take another course of action would I not?
It is apparent within my life experience that one cannot just come to a solution, the needs to implement the solution also need to exist.

One cannot declare that they will murder someone even if they believe the person should be murdered. One must develop a solution they feel will appropriately succeed and gather the resources and means to put that solution into effect. I could not plausibly shoot you in the face if I could not plausibly travel to your location and not plausibly aquire a firearm.

Kael Hate

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Re: Is living a life of luxury while others starve immoral? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27852.msg355524#msg355524
« Reply #39 on: June 23, 2011, 07:19:41 pm »
[... Eugentical, social-darwinist, whatever elaborations ...]
Kael, what are you even trying to say that SOMEHOW relates to the topic?
Before the derailment earlier into the details of my answer, I had said:
Immoral to me? No.
I believe that the people of the world need to learn how nature culls populous to balance its resources.


Are you saying that any riches and luxury you may have relate directly to your ability to adapt to nowadays world,
that you totally deserve every penny and more than that: Every penny ought to go to yourself?
Are you saying that those born rich and living richer in the USA or in Europe are stronger and fitter, hence
more worthy to live, than those born starved and living in starvation somewhere in Africa or Asia?

Seriously, unless it is along these line, I don't get your point.
No and No.

But I do believe that those born in excess of their means need to be culled not supported.
What benefit is bringing a child into a situation where the child can't be maintained?
Just like a farm, if you can't support the populous, you need to reduce it not have your stock breed more.


Offline Jangoo

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Re: Is living a life of luxury while others starve immoral? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27852.msg355539#msg355539
« Reply #40 on: June 23, 2011, 07:43:49 pm »


Ok, I think I get it now.

Much to heavy on all that "nature picks its own", "forge your own luck" stuff for me.
As if colonialism hadn't existed ... Africa, Asia, Southamerica just are like that because of nature.
As if the world-wars were just a fantastic episode in a book ... mere coincidence.
As if the middle-eastern wars were fought for no reason at all ... moral institutions or economic backgrounds had no part in all that.
As if the whole idea of democracy or even society as such were but utopia ... rules? looking out for each other? naaa ...

Imho, the world-order is far faaaaaaaaar beyond being "natural" in any way ... because "man" has done his part
eversince he picked up that rock, attached it to a stick and went hunting with it to feed his tribe as a whole.
Eversince he decided that his little spot at the fireplace just wasn't enough ... neighbors tribes fireplace would be
nice to have too.
That is true for a lil community somewhere in the midwestern outback as well as humankind as a whole.

We are not a wolf-pack. We are educated; especially when we are rich.
Anybody claiming ignorance to be his "reason" for not helping out is a dick.
Anybody not helping out in spite of caviar and champagne on the table
deserves his next life in a central-african warzone with somebody standing behind
him all day shouting:

"Breathe in the poisonos fumes dude! Absorb those bullets with your guts pal!
Eat that dust instead of grain nigga! Don't even dare blame it on anybody!
You know, you don't deserve better because nature has chosen you to be culled
... you are just too much for our planet and there's nobody who could help you!"


 

Kael Hate

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Re: Is living a life of luxury while others starve immoral? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27852.msg355547#msg355547
« Reply #41 on: June 23, 2011, 07:52:30 pm »

Ok, I think I get it now.
...snip...
We should erase the weaker less useful populous to create a stronger humanity. My opinion.

Offline Essence

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Re: Is living a life of luxury while others starve immoral? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27852.msg355548#msg355548
« Reply #42 on: June 23, 2011, 07:54:30 pm »
Wait -- just a bit ago you were saying that we should just wipe out humanity as a whole.  Which is it?



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Re: Is living a life of luxury while others starve immoral? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27852.msg355559#msg355559
« Reply #43 on: June 23, 2011, 08:06:43 pm »
Wait -- just a bit ago you were saying that we should just wipe out humanity as a whole.  Which is it?
Both.

As a Misanthrope and Hater of Humanity, I wish the utter extiction of mankind.
As an Evolutionist, I wish that processes and courses of action will create better and more efficient results.

Or in short until I can guarantee the erasure of mankind, I would like mankind to try and evolve and mayhap change my mind.

Offline Essence

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Re: Is living a life of luxury while others starve immoral? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27852.msg355563#msg355563
« Reply #44 on: June 23, 2011, 08:13:20 pm »
So, given the choice between killing all of humanity and killing all but the most fit-for-survival 1% of humans currently alive, which would you choose?  Assume for the purpose of removing self-worth from the equation that you're not part of that 1%.
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Re: Is living a life of luxury while others starve immoral? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27852.msg355573#msg355573
« Reply #45 on: June 23, 2011, 08:21:50 pm »
So, given the choice between killing all of humanity and killing all but the most fit-for-survival 1% of humans currently alive, which would you choose?  Assume for the purpose of removing self-worth from the equation that you're not part of that 1%.
At this time, total erasure. Even the 1% I know fails to curb my hatred.
If maybe 0.0000001% of the current populous could be maintain seperate and uncorrupted from the rest of humanity and establish an evolutionary growth then I might choose that over utter extinction.

But at this time Utter extinction seems the better choice allowing nature to go through its evolutions uninhibited by man.

Offline Essence

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Re: Is living a life of luxury while others starve immoral? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27852.msg355579#msg355579
« Reply #46 on: June 23, 2011, 08:27:47 pm »
OK, so you're not a Social Darwinist, then, you're a Nihilist.

That's cool.  Nihilism begins at home. :)
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Offline Jangoo

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Re: Is living a life of luxury while others starve immoral? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27852.msg355581#msg355581
« Reply #47 on: June 23, 2011, 08:30:39 pm »


I fear somehow I agree that humanity as whole does indeed deserve a wipe-out.
... Or at least a "reset" of biblical proportions.

Then again, we are in the situation we are in and being realistic about it probably
carries further than abstract theory.

All I am saying is that the "weak" ones are weak for a variety of reasons.
Not many of those reasons can be traced back to the doings (or non-doings)
of the weak ones themselves.
For the most part, they seem to be weak because others became strong
while riding on their back. Then those strong ones gave birth to even stronger
ones who got to flourish under most favourable conditions while taking further
advantage of the weak ones.
Generations later all that is forgotten ... the "American self-made man" has
indeed done everything himself it seems. He has "no idea why black people
are at a disadvantage when they have all the rights I do." He is happy about
a 20% increase of his stock-portfolio. Okay, most of that portfolio comprises
petrol-firms and arms-producers but "why is it my problem that those diaper-
heads in Iraq and Iran had to bomb Manhatten and now they're stuck in a war?"
He spends 140$ dollars on a "business"-lunch and responds to the beggar in
front of the restaurant asking for a buck: "Get a job!"
... The beggar is the son of a factory worker who worked in a factory of the
rich mans father for 20 years, who then got fired when the place shut down
and who forced himself onto his wife numerous times while being drunk.

Society, in some countries, tries to care about the "unfortunate" in the form
of programs and welfare ... a drop of water on a hot stone, or "ineffective"
as some might call it. I prefer the term "insufficient".
Those who are fortunate, all too often forget whom they owe it to when
questions like "Is living a life of luxury while others starve immoral?" arise.

 


 

anything
blarg: