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Offline Zso_ZsoTopic starter

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Guns and kids https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48942.msg1065805#msg1065805
« on: May 02, 2013, 03:11:34 pm »
I know it is an important cultural cornerstone for the USA for citizens to have the right to bare arms. It was strange to me when I was young, because I grew up in totally different culture. Living in Canada and hearing a lot of opinions (and aging to 45) got me to the point that I sort of understand their point of view even if I do not agree with it.

However, giving guns to 5 year olds is still shocking to me, I did not know that was legal anywhere and I can't possibly understand the logic in that!  :o

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/01/us/kentucky-accidential-shooting/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_topstories+%28RSS%3A+Top+Stories%29

So, let me get this straight: in the USA, you have to be 21 years old for it to be legal to drink alcohol, but you can have a rifle at the age of 5 ???

mind == blown
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Offline Elbirn

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Re: Guns and kids https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48942.msg1065807#msg1065807
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2013, 03:21:24 pm »
According to a few seconds worth of research, in the United States you must be 18 to purchase a rifle, 21 to purchase a handgun.

The real issue here is bad parenting and lack of safety measures. They shouldn't have given a 5 year old a rifle. They shouldn't have left the gun loaded. They shouldn't have left the gun in an insecure place where the child could access it.
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Offline Zso_ZsoTopic starter

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Re: Guns and kids https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48942.msg1065811#msg1065811
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2013, 03:31:41 pm »
But the article states that the gun was the boy's gun that he got for his birthday -- and it is a model specifically designed and marketed for kids (cricket gun). Obviously it was bought by the parents, so that gets around the age law for buying.

But how can it be legal to market a gun designed for 5 year old kids ?
And it sounds like it is customary thing in Kentucky, not an exceptional case that the boy had a gun.

That's what I cannot get my head wrapped around.

I can understand, that accidents can happen whereas a child gets his hand on the parent's gun if it isn't locked away safely. But in this case it was his gun -- a model designed for small kids.
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Re: Guns and kids https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48942.msg1065819#msg1065819
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2013, 04:08:44 pm »
I believe the youth rifle is intended for much older kids (say 10 years on a shooting range with adult supervision).
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Offline Elbirn

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Re: Guns and kids https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48942.msg1065828#msg1065828
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2013, 04:57:01 pm »
^ What OT said, I do believe that rifle is marketed towards slightly older children, and with the intent of adult supervision. Knowledge of fire arms is a part of southern culture; unfortunately, southerners are also often inbred, backwoods idiots. (or are at least perceived that way)
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Offline Zso_ZsoTopic starter

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Re: Guns and kids https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48942.msg1065841#msg1065841
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2013, 05:32:40 pm »
Thanks OT and Elbirn for the explanation -- at least I can see the intentions are not that crazy.
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Re: Guns and kids https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48942.msg1065857#msg1065857
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2013, 07:12:15 pm »
Americans confuse the -right- to bear arms with -I want to bear arms anytime and anywhere, even when it's stupid and unnecessary to do so-.  Just because you -can- own a gun doesn't mean you need to have an arsenal or arm your kids, and you don't need everybody wandering around with a conceal and carry; it's just asking for trouble, especially when piled onto all of the other cultural problems.

Gun advocates will often (and rightly) claim that guns don't kill people; people kill people.  If it wasn't guns, it would be something else; knives, rocks, fists, whatever.  The problem isn't the guns, it's the culture behind them.  Other countries have higher rates of gun ownership, but far less crimes committed with guns, or, in this particular case, tragic accidents with guns.

My neighbour is a professional hunting guide.  I don't know how many guns he's got, but it's quite a few.  I feel no danger at all from him.  Why?  Because he is trained in their proper use and storage, and because he's responsible and smart.  Put those same guns in the hands of your average American, and I no longer would feel safe at all because the average American is far more likely to do something stupid or illegal with those same guns.  They need some sort of paradigm shift to occur in their thinking, but I don't think it will happen for at least a few generations; probably after I'm dead.  (and hopefully not due to being shot by an American angry at this post... :p )

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Re: Guns and kids https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48942.msg1065859#msg1065859
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2013, 07:19:21 pm »
Americans confuse the -right- to bear arms with -I want to bear arms anytime and anywhere, even when it's stupid and unnecessary to do so-.  Just because you -can- own a gun doesn't mean you need to have an arsenal or arm your kids, and you don't need everybody wandering around with a conceal and carry; it's just asking for trouble, especially when piled onto all of the other cultural problems.

Gun advocates will often (and rightly) claim that guns don't kill people; people kill people.  If it wasn't guns, it would be something else; knives, rocks, fists, whatever.  The problem isn't the guns, it's the culture behind them.  Other countries have higher rates of gun ownership, but far less crimes committed with guns, or, in this particular case, tragic accidents with guns.

My neighbour is a professional hunting guide.  I don't know how many guns he's got, but it's quite a few.  I feel no danger at all from him.  Why?  Because he is trained in their proper use and storage, and because he's responsible and smart.  Put those same guns in the hands of your average American, and I no longer would feel safe at all because the average American is far more likely to do something stupid or illegal with those same guns.  They need some sort of paradigm shift to occur in their thinking, but I don't think it will happen for at least a few generations; probably after I'm dead.  (and hopefully not due to being shot by an American angry at this post... :p )

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In all serious, my dad has a nice little gun collection, somewhere around 20 guns, and he has had them since before I was born.  I haven't shot anybody yet, or even went around playing with them.  Youngest I was out shooting was at 9 years old, but that was under supervision in the middle of some woods in Alabama.  As long as the parents aren't idiots, there shouldn't be any problems.  5 is too young though, can a kid that old even realize the difference between an item and a toy?
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Offline furballdn

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Re: Guns and kids https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48942.msg1066007#msg1066007
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2013, 01:35:28 am »
I think regardless of what your beliefs are on the second amendment that you can agree giving a four year old a gun is not a good idea, even with adult supervision.

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Re: Guns and kids https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48942.msg1067071#msg1067071
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2013, 03:09:43 am »
Kids don't need real guns. We won't be able to stop the gun influence they see on TV, so give them a BB gun or something. But you are right, proper parenting is very much needed in-case the kids get any thoughts.

Plus, why would a kid need a real gun...to defend itself? Yeah, see how that works lol.

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Re: Guns and kids https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48942.msg1067093#msg1067093
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2013, 04:07:52 am »
Plus, why would a kid need a real gun...to defend itself? Yeah, see how that works lol.
To teach them gun safety. To teach them how to hunt. Or even to teach them how to defend themselves for when they leave the nest.
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Re: Guns and kids https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48942.msg1067098#msg1067098
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2013, 04:14:30 am »
Plus, why would a kid need a real gun...to defend itself? Yeah, see how that works lol.
To teach them gun safety. To teach them how to hunt. Or even to teach them how to defend themselves for when they leave the nest.
Even if you believe that, isn't 4 or 5 too young? If the kid was 9 or 10 that could be understandable, but giving a 4 year old a gun is just irresponsible, even if you're watching him or her.

 

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