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Offline BluePriest

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Re: Gun control? Let's have a real talk on the subject! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19326.msg247899#msg247899
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2011, 04:29:41 am »
Ah thank you Blue! Will edit now.
Thank you. Im just so tired of people saying he was republican. I am just ashamed of people turning that tragedy into a political battle. It is horrible that our country has come to this. People died. Why do we have to find fault, and especially make up crap to advance a political agenda. I know thats not what you were trying to do, a whole lot of people jumped on this, and tried convincing america hoping no one would research it further.
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redrox

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Re: Gun control? Let's have a real talk on the subject! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19326.msg247909#msg247909
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2011, 04:45:36 am »
  I am just ashamed of people turning that tragedy into a political battle. It is horrible that our country has come to this. People died. Why do we have to find fault, and especially make up crap to advance a political agenda. I know thats not what you were trying to do, a whole lot of people jumped on this, and tried convincing america hoping no one would research it further.
Well you know what Rahm Emanuel says "Never let a good tragedy go to waste"  this is exactly the kind of thing he was talking about and why the political discussion is being pushed so hard.  Because in light of events like this you can push laws that you would not normally be able to.

LongDono

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Re: Gun control? Let's have a real talk on the subject! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19326.msg247914#msg247914
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2011, 05:01:45 am »
Gun control has been a forbidden issue in this country though. We need healthy debate on what will and will not work. This country dose have a issue with guns I believe and the issue's are not impossible to solve. Like I said I only push magazine size at the moment because I know it will save lives ( few is better than none ) and is prolly the only thing that can pass right now.
Honestly I am an outdoors man, and I have 3 guns, 1 crossbow, a normal and simple bow. ( ALso go fishing, have not used any that I listed for years. )
Honestly large magazines like the one used in Tucson only have one other reason for being other than people hunting I believe. We outlaw lots of fire arms already in this country but I think RPG's have a good reason to be outlawed, they are pointless unless you plan to use them. 30 rounds magazines are not really as bad as RPG's but what I am saying is the reason for outlawing them is almost the same really.

Offline BluePriest

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Re: Gun control? Let's have a real talk on the subject! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19326.msg247924#msg247924
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2011, 05:22:29 am »
http://www.cracked.com/article_17016_7-items-you-wont-believe-are-actually-legal.html

My favorites are the minigun and flamethrower lol. Idk how much cracked should be trusted though...
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LongDono

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Re: Gun control? Let's have a real talk on the subject! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19326.msg247928#msg247928
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2011, 05:37:14 am »
Wow true or not that got me to laugh alot. Gave me ideas too......... I should do more research before trying my ideas out...

Offline Kuu

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Re: Gun control? Let's have a real talk on the subject! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19326.msg248412#msg248412
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2011, 08:34:39 pm »
Quote
@ Quote #1: So it takes 30 shots to stop a shooter? Dude that makes zero sense.
@ Quote #2:What freedom are we giving up?
#1 If you can use hypotheticals (but the shooter might have killed less people if he had a smaller mag) then so can I:

What if there are ten guys at a college with guns and a reasponsible citizen doesn't have a thirty shot mag and only kills three while the rest massacre everyone in the college?

#2 The freedom to have a thirty shot mag of course!

LongDono

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Re: Gun control? Let's have a real talk on the subject! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19326.msg248438#msg248438
« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2011, 09:10:12 pm »
Quote
@ Quote #1: So it takes 30 shots to stop a shooter? Dude that makes zero sense.
@ Quote #2:What freedom are we giving up?
#1 If you can use hypotheticals (but the shooter might have killed less people if he had a smaller mag) then so can I:

What if there are ten guys at a college with guns and a reasponsible citizen doesn't have a thirty shot mag and only kills three while the rest massacre everyone in the college?

#2 The freedom to have a thirty shot mag of course!
#1 So you think 1 guy can stop 10? the number of rounds is not even the issue here, if you open fire with a hand gun on 10 guys that have guns you will be shot dead before you even get half of them.
#2 You think that can justify this? I don't think the freedom to have a insane number of rounds in a hand gun is even worth having.
Also at the tucson shooting someone did have a gun but almost shot the wrong person, so don't start with the "if they only had someone with a gun there" thing either.

redrox

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Re: Gun control? Let's have a real talk on the subject! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19326.msg248456#msg248456
« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2011, 09:29:51 pm »
Also at the tucson shooting someone did have a gun but almost shot the wrong person, so don't start with the "if they only had someone with a gun there" thing either.
There was also another person who had a controled carry and weapons permit who did not pull his firearm.  Instead he assisted people who had been shot.  Because he was aware if he did pull his weapon that it could risk others in crossfire, or have his weapon used against him.

Five In One

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Re: Gun control? Let's have a real talk on the subject! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19326.msg253008#msg253008
« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2011, 02:22:35 am »
This is a complex issue. It's very difficult to determine what is best for everyone when it comes to gun control, but I'll tell you some of my opinions on the matter. Whether or not they are still pertinent today, I'll leave that up to you.

For one, I believe that if there were laws banning guns for citizens, only criminals would have guns. Why? Because criminals don't follow laws. If criminals know that nobody has a gun under their coat, they are much more likely to commit crimes, simply because they're the only ones with weapons---so who's to stop them? But, if everyone had guns, criminals are more cautious of the crimes they commit, and might even stop themselves from committing these crimes, because who's to say whether the dozens of people around them are armed or not? For all they know, everybody could have a gun, ready to fire when a wrongdoing is committed. Rob a bank, and there's the possibility that 20 pistols would be raised immediately to the one man trying to rob it. Simply put, if everybody had a gun, criminals would be more fearful, and certain crimes might not be worth committing anymore.

Another thing that needs to be understood is that in order for this to work, people need to know not only gun safety, but how and when to use their guns, and when it would be appropriate to take it out and point it at someone. Restraint is key here. A man with an incredibly short temper might unleash his gun when such force should not be used. If gun safety and proper use is taught correctly at a young age, those taught will then grow up with that moral code as a central force for how they think. For those who still decide to use their weapons carelessly, they should be punished by laws appropriately.

When it comes to specifics, I'm at a loss. I'm not an expert on guns, only on common sense. If there are loopholes or problems with my theories, let me know, for this is the only way to improve them. These are just my ideas, and what I believe. What is truly best for us? Well, who truly knows?

funplay

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Re: Gun control? Let's have a real talk on the subject! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19326.msg254103#msg254103
« Reply #33 on: January 22, 2011, 01:52:39 pm »
For one, I believe that if there were laws banning guns for citizens, only criminals would have guns. Why? Because criminals don't follow laws. If criminals know that nobody has a gun under their coat, they are much more likely to commit crimes, simply because they're the only ones with weapons---so who's to stop them? But, if everyone had guns, criminals are more cautious of the crimes they commit, and might even stop themselves from committing these crimes, because who's to say whether the dozens of people around them are armed or not? For all they know, everybody could have a gun, ready to fire when a wrongdoing is committed. Rob a bank, and there's the possibility that 20 pistols would be raised immediately to the one man trying to rob it. Simply put, if everybody had a gun, criminals would be more fearful, and certain crimes might not be worth committing anymore.
If that argument is true, the rate of crimes should decrease with the availability of guns and vice versa. If somebody is about to commit a crime, they dont put MUCH though into the matter if a civilian might carry a gun...this wont deter many (if not any at all) criminals committing crimes, imho. Even if they do, i think common availabilty of guns might change the behaviour while committing a crime...if guns are pretty common, i think gun USE will be much more common. That person over there might pull a gun...so better shot him first...

Furthermore, i think, that the bigger the legal market for guns, the easier i might be to get a gun on the black market...

I didnt do any research on this topic, but i live in a country with quite heavy gun control...and gun usage is rarely a topic in the news. This implies to me, that gun control helps to reduce the amount of crimes with guns imvolved. Thus gun control saves lives.

But in the end, the crime rate and gun usage is dependent on more then one factor, so i will be quite difficult to determine the impact of strict gun control.

btw: the people stopping gun using criminals are called "police officers" ;)

Offline BluePriest

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Re: Gun control? Let's have a real talk on the subject! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19326.msg254261#msg254261
« Reply #34 on: January 22, 2011, 04:39:01 pm »
I didnt do any research on this topic, but i live in a country with quite heavy gun control...and gun usage is rarely a topic in the news. This implies to me, that gun control helps to reduce the amount of crimes with guns imvolved. Thus gun control saves lives.

This is the only real important part of your post.  You can talk about how it is in your country, however, that doesnt mean anything in another country where the culture is very different.
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funplay

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Re: Gun control? Let's have a real talk on the subject! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19326.msg254522#msg254522
« Reply #35 on: January 22, 2011, 08:41:55 pm »
This is the only real important part of your post.  You can talk about how it is in your country, however, that doesnt mean anything in another country where the culture is very different.
And as im living in a different country i cant question the argument above my post?

Please keep in mind that I said ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about possible consequences...imho, the right to bear guns IS a cultural thing in the USA and thats were i will remain silent, cause i dont have any clue how i should be dealt with. BUT:
Claiming that allowing everybody to own guns lowers the possibility of crimes is, imho, a questionable argument.

I just took a short look into the "facts" and the result is inconclusive and quite complicated. But you know: im not in the mood translating all that data and got better stuff to do.I will leave that to the experts...

Just one thing: The statistics i looked at (wikipedia, i know should have reserached more ;) ) come to the conclusion that actual using guns in murders and other serious crimes is MUCH higher in the USA then in Europe...and an older survey (1986) found out that criminals (convicted for their gun use) were convinced that they had to be prepared for "every situation"...espcecially that the other one might carry a gun...but the same survey came to the conclusion that changing the amount of gun control wont change much ;)





 

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