Gun control? Let's have a real talk on the subject!

[LongDono]

First of all  I will list my reasons for making this thread.
A. I am iggnorant on the subject when you go into detail.
B. After what has recently happened in Tuscon I believe a real debate might be possible.
C. I believe it should have a debate.

Now many of us that have not lived under a rock or outside the united states should know what happened in Tuscon recently, if you do not turn on the news or google it.
Some details on the shooter and shooting....
*The shooter had an exstended magazine that could hold about 30 bullets.
*He had serious mental issues, though I know nothing past that.
*This murder was more than likely thought out ahead of time due to what has been found in a safe of his.
*No hard proof to link any political idolology to him besides him being a registered as an indepent and thats not really saying much.
*He had shot about 18 people before he was stopped, and 5-6 are dead. A federal Judge, a staffer, and a 9 yearold girl are among them. The congresswomen looks like she will pull through.
*He was only stopped after he had to reload his gun.

Thats a list of what I know or have heard.

Now to the debate
*Do you think any sort of law needs to be passed at all, and why?
*A law on ammo should be passed that limits how easy it si to get ammo?  Go into detail!
*A law on gun sales? Go into detail!
*Both a law on guns and ammo? Go into detail!
*A law that limits Magazine size? Go into detail!
*Other? Go into lots of detail!
I will make a poll later, after you all give me more options!
I believe that magazine size should be limited. We can not stop a shooting like this one. I say this because there are about 90 guns for every 100 people in America. You CAN get a gun if you want one badly enough. Bullets might be alot harder to get if there was some sort of limit and what I would go for as a second solution, sadly bullets are hard to limit as we do not have the resources to limit them I think... but Magazine limits sound like an easy and common sense solution to me. Tell me what are you going to use a 30 round Magazine for?  We had a magazine limit before 2004 but the bush admin allowed that Law to expire.
Sadly I must admit a Magazine limit will not solve this issue, only make it not as bad, but it is easiest thing to pass when compared to the other options.

[redrox]

*No hard proof to link any political idolology to him besides hm being a registered as a republican and thats not really saying much.

Not true, he was registered an Independent and did not vote in this last election.  He also didn't listen to talk radio.  He also has been quoted from his friends as being a leftist and obsessed with the end of the world, also now its coming to light that he was a major fan of the Zeitgeist internet viral video.  Which in no way shape or form shows his ideological beliefs to resemble any republican or conservative views.

I don't believe there needs to be more gun laws unless you like the idea of restricting your rights to defend yourself.  Look at Nazi Germany for an idea of what happens when you lose your right to bear arms.

I believe in light of Tucson they need to look into solutions to make sure people like Laughner don't slip through the cracks again.  The Pima County police department really dropped the ball in following up on a numerous amount of problems that Laughner showed he was in need real psychiatric help. 

Just my 2 cents though, throw away your rights if you want.  The police will always be able show up after an incident has happend to clean up the bodies.  When it really comes down to brass tax you can only depend on yourself for help.

[LongDono]

Ok I take Major issue with the "throw away your rights" line you keep saying. Tell me what rights am I throwing away if I want 30 magazines ban?
tell me what are you going to use 30+ rounds for? Not wanting to repoad as much in target practice is hardly worth not banning them.

[redrox]

It's the progressive slope right now you want to limit a 30 size clip.  Ok well guess what this does?  This stop honest people from getting a 30+ clip.  Criminals will still get 30+ size clip because the law does not pertain to them.  Do you believe that in our advanced society that we are not able to modify our arms on our own?? 

So you ban the 30+ clip whats next after?  Next week someone gets shot with a 16 clip do you want to make laws preventing that?  Now take this progressive slope 100 years you find yourself with a gun with only one bullet in it.

Look at the real problem here which is the guy was a wacko, and look at a solution to that.

Edit:  A reported wacko, that no one acted on at that.  He should not of slipped through the cracks.

[Chemist]

Highly relevant reading: Why America's gun laws won't change
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12158148

Now, being from Europe I'll just say: you'd have fewer people shooting others if fewer people had guns. But that cat is out of the bag already, and along with there not being any real will (political or otherwise) to change that situation, things are simply going to stay the way they are for you.

[killybob]

wow this is quite a heated debate. i think there is no problems with the gun laws but there is a problem with modern day ideology and criminals hell bent on hunting politics and 9 year old girls. that bastard is dangerous, mentally unsound and really needs to be locked away permanently.

[LongDono]

It's the progressive slope right now you want to limit a 30 size clip.  Ok well guess what this does?  This stop honest people from getting a 30+ clip.  Criminals will still get 30+ size clip because the law does not pertain to them.  Do you believe that in our advanced society that we are not able to modify our arms on our own?? 

So you ban the 30+ clip whats next after?  Next week someone gets shot with a 16 clip do you want to make laws preventing that?  Now take this progressive slope 100 years you find yourself with a gun with only one bullet in it.

Look at the real problem here which is the guy was a wacko, and look at a solution to that.

Edit:  A reported wacko, that no one acted on at that.  He should not of slipped through the cracks.

Tell me what will an honest person do with a 30 round clip that makes up for the crazies and general bad people having them too? Yes we can modify them on our own, but then you have to know how, and history is on my side here, while the ban was in place you did not really see people with 30 round clips.
16 round clips are about right, thats what the cops have. You continue to assume that we would limit it down to 1 or none, on what basis do you assume this? We just figure that if a 15-18 round clip is enough for cops that get into shoot outs now and again then it is certainly enough for the average guy. Tell me would you have to waste 30 rounds if someone entered your house? NO thats overkill!
Wacko's will slip through the cracks as long as we are a free nation. We can do things to catch them sooner but even then only 25% of all assassinations are from mentally challenged people. You address about 25% of the issue at most depending on how you look at it. I am talking about the gun control issue, the mental health one is a different issue.

[redrox]

Tell me what will an honest person do with a 30 round clip that makes up for the crazies and general bad people having them too?

 I am talking about the gun control issue, the mental health one is a different issue.

First it doesn't matter what the honest man would do with it.  Because he is honest and will use it justly.

Second the Mental Health issue is the problem.  Not the size of the clip.  He could of easily of carried multiple weapons and not of had to of worried about reloading, do you then want to make a ban on individuals owning more then one firearm?

Also No I don't assume that the laws will push the clip size down to 1.  I vote to put a stop to them reducing it so it never can get down to 1 there is the difference.   Stop the progressive slope of losing your rights, before it starts.

[killybob]

amen to that!

[LongDono]

Tell me what will an honest person do with a 30 round clip that makes up for the crazies and general bad people having them too?

 I am talking about the gun control issue, the mental health one is a different issue.

First it doesn't matter what the honest man would do with it.  Because he is honest and will use it justly.

Second the Mental Health issue is the problem.  Not the size of the clip.  He could of easily of carried multiple weapons and not of had to of worried about reloading, do you then want to make a ban on individuals owning more then one firearm?

Also No I don't assume that the laws will push the clip size down to 1.  I vote to put a stop to them reducing it so it never can get down to 1 there is the difference.   Stop the progressive slope of losing your rights, before it starts.

Why dose an honest man need 30 rounds? I can tell you why gang bangers, and people that do terrible crimes need them, so they don't have to carry more than one weapon and have to stop to reload. If you carry more than 1 weapon you greatly increase your chances of being found out.
Now no offense but you sound like someone that honestly believe the governemt would try and take 270 million guns away, correct me if I am wrong.
Also not all people that kill with guns are crazy, you are addressing only 1 point of the issue.
This is about the guns not the mental health, make a different thread if you want to talk about that.

[redrox]

Now no offense but you sound like someone that honestly believe the governemt would try and take 270 million guns away, correct me if I am wrong.

First don't make assumptions about me.  Second I don't even own a gun I just respect the right.   

[LongDono]

Now no offense but you sound like someone that honestly believe the governemt would try and take 270 million guns away, correct me if I am wrong.

First don't make assumptions about me.  Second I don't even own a gun I just respect the right.

Tell me why is my assumption wrong? You keep talking about a slope in a way that if any gun control passes more and more will pass until we no longer have that right, so tell me why am I wrong to assume this?