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theloconate

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Re: Gay marriage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14297.msg184037#msg184037
« Reply #72 on: October 25, 2010, 12:57:41 am »
Probably for the same reason anyone cares about something not directly related to them: Ideals, religion, ideologies, etc. According to my values, it would be a better world if same-sexed people could marry everywhere, and show their love and be showed respect, not be discriminated against in cases of everything from monetary (tax stuff) practical (like having a ceremony in a church?) stuff. Then again, that is because I see no possible harm or bad effects of this, and if others do, I suppose that it's natural for them to care and say "Nay!".
I'm pretty sure almost all people against gay marriage are against it because of their religion, there are probably a few that aren't religious but were just indoctrinated that way.
Is religion not a suitable reason to be opposed to something? (not wanting to go off on a tangent, just wanting to clarify)
Religion is a suitable reason to oppose doing something that only affects you i.e. wearing a hijab. It cannot be used to enforce something on someone else.

Offline Belthus

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Re: Gay marriage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14297.msg184139#msg184139
« Reply #73 on: October 25, 2010, 02:50:17 am »
Is religion not a suitable reason to be opposed to something? (not wanting to go off on a tangent, just wanting to clarify)
A religious reason would only be convincing to those who share the same religion (and not even all of them). That is why it is better to give practical reasons that anyone might accept without converting to your religion.

Offline TimerClock14

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Re: Gay marriage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14297.msg184155#msg184155
« Reply #74 on: October 25, 2010, 03:16:28 am »
I don't mean to offend anyone here, but i think that religion is overrated. So is politics. The world needs to just get over itself and start fixing things rather than DISCUSSING it.
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theloconate

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Re: Gay marriage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14297.msg184163#msg184163
« Reply #75 on: October 25, 2010, 03:36:22 am »
I don't mean to offend anyone here, but i think that religion is overrated. So is politics. The world needs to just get over itself and start fixing things rather than DISCUSSING it.
I agree religion is overrated, although im not entirely sure how poltics is overrated, yes we should be fixing things but how the hell are we supposed to fix the world if we can't agree on what  fixing it is

Numnut

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Re: Gay marriage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14297.msg184177#msg184177
« Reply #76 on: October 25, 2010, 03:52:19 am »
I don't mean to offend anyone here, but i think that religion is overrated. So is politics. The world needs to just get over itself and start fixing things rather than DISCUSSING it.
I agree religion is overrated, although im not entirely sure how poltics is overrated, yes we should be fixing things but how the hell are we supposed to fix the world if we can't agree on what  fixing it is
I don't see how religion, or the personal beliefs of people, could be overrated.  However, I think that politics could only be properly described in the English language.  Poli (poly) meaning many, tics meaning bloodsucking creatures.  And I agree that it is difficult to fix things when we cannot come to a consensus as to how it should be repaired.  Thus you have discussion. 

Offline Daytripper

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Re: Gay marriage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14297.msg184388#msg184388
« Reply #77 on: October 25, 2010, 12:44:59 pm »
Come visit us! We have legal gay marriage!

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SeddyRocky

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Re: Gay marriage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14297.msg184417#msg184417
« Reply #78 on: October 25, 2010, 01:55:35 pm »
And you were the first in the world to get it! ^^

Offline Belthus

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Re: Gay marriage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14297.msg184522#msg184522
« Reply #79 on: October 25, 2010, 06:14:23 pm »
However, I think that politics could only be properly described in the English language.  Poli (poly) meaning many, tics meaning bloodsucking creatures.
This is a joke, right? Politics comes from the Greek words "polis" (city-state), "polites" (citizen), and "politikos" (civil, civic, related to citizens or the state).

Numnut

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Re: Gay marriage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14297.msg184630#msg184630
« Reply #80 on: October 25, 2010, 09:42:04 pm »
However, I think that politics could only be properly described in the English language.  Poli (poly) meaning many, tics meaning bloodsucking creatures.
This is a joke, right? Politics comes from the Greek words "polis" (city-state), "polites" (citizen), and "politikos" (civil, civic, related to citizens or the state).
Very much meant to be a joke, seeing as the aforementioned tic is actually spelled tick.

Uppercut

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Re: Gay marriage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14297.msg184657#msg184657
« Reply #81 on: October 25, 2010, 10:14:46 pm »
Ontopic: moomoose, I do not agree with Numnut's postion for 5 cents, but you really are not promoting your cause when you are so rigid and not open for discussion.
Moomoose is clearly open to discussion or else he wouldn't be posting on a forum. Quite frankly I 100% agree with moomoose's stance and rigidness. Until someone can give a good reason why gay people shouldn't marry there is no reason to deny them that right. I'll even go one step further and say that it is immoral and indefensible to hold an anti-gay marriage stance.

theloconate

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Re: Gay marriage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14297.msg184689#msg184689
« Reply #82 on: October 25, 2010, 10:49:08 pm »
also numnut didn't you say you were gonna refute my refutation in the letter you sent me yesterday (or two days ago i can't remember)

Offline Boingo

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Re: Gay marriage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14297.msg185903#msg185903
« Reply #83 on: October 27, 2010, 05:45:38 am »
How is marriage a religious thing. Does that mean that atheists can't get married too? And why do you have a problem with it being labeled marriage when two gay guys/gals marry. Because its religious?!! Marriage was originally used to make ties between families, not because of religion. Granted they would probably be marrying someone of the same religion but that doesn't make it religious.
This is pretty paradoxically written.  First, you start by off-handedly asserting that religion is not a basis of marriage and never was.  In your bizarro world, then, governing bodies one day for no apparent reason decided they were going to start issuing licenses for something nobody was doing already, and granting legal and financial incentives to get people to do this totally new thing which they termed "marriage."  On the face of it, this is pretty laughable.

Then you tangentially go on to ask the rhetorical question about whether atheists can or cannot get married.  It's as if you haven't made up your mind--if marriage has no religious basis, then how did this question come to mind?   Then you seemed flummoxed that the nice people in governmental (and certainly NOT religious) circles got the idea that marriage was an exclusively heterosexual affair when obviously it was never intended for such purposes.   Marriage, after all, was devised by governments to grant hospital visitation rights and for legal remedies for property transfers and adoption proceedings (though, amazingly, marriage somehow came to exist before the advent of hospitals as we know them or even of widespread land ownership.)

Finally, you come to the conclusion that while marriage has historically been about promoting family unity and overwhelmingly occurs between men and women of the same religion, there's no reason to call it a religious custom.  All those religions that hold marriage as a religious rite or religious sacrament obviously had it wrong all these years.  I wonder why all those people celebrate them in religious buildings then, with religious ministers at them?

You seem to have never considered that marriage was always a religious arrangement that modern governments began to co-opt since the people being governed were already organized in this fashion.  The government added things to what a married couple could do under their laws that had very little to do or at least was not central to the original religious arrangement.  It seems it is these late additions to the marriage game that have people all aflutter in the gay marriage debate.  It seems these are the things most sought after by same sex proponents, since they don't seem to be knocking down the doors of the religious institutions to get married in religious buildings by religious ministers. 

It is on this basis that many will find it objectionable to call these legal arrangements equivalent to what has been known as marriage for millenia.  If you want legal rights, then get legal rights.   Just don't waste your efforts trying to rewrite history, religious or otherwise.

(P.S. And don't pretend that government grants the right to love one another--if you truly think that, you apparently don't understand love very well.)

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