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Offline Daytripper

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Re: Community Center Near Ground Zero https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11802.msg151334#msg151334
« Reply #60 on: September 03, 2010, 11:14:24 am »
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IIRC there is going to be a memorial there, called Reflecting Absence (or something similar), completed some time next year. There's also a museum being built. I think this page will probably have more details. The community centre is some two or three blocks away from ground zero.
See, we got somewhere. I have not been following this very closely, nor have others, I suspect. If you put it like this, then people not agreeing don't have a leg to stand on, do they?


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This is the thing, I suspect, which is causing the issue. People have bought into the narrative of fear and hate, and it seems like they have genuinely assumed that there is a big Mosque, minarets and all, going up where the WTC towers used to stand. This just isn't the case, and when you actually examine the facts of the situation you find that there's very little basis for controversy outside NIMBYism and prejudice. This is why the debate has now degenerated into "it's disrespectful" because that line of argument doesn't need to be grounded in facts.
Brilliant. Now, when speaking to a Dutchman facts are usually more important than being respectful.  :P

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Perhaps it's better to wind this down now if Dragoon isn't going to stick around. At least he had the courtesy to engage.
That is puzzling. As a Dutchman I don't understand it. I thought you had to engage in something, otherwise it is just ''turning on engines of some type.''


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Offline vrt

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Re: Community Center Near Ground Zero https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11802.msg151347#msg151347
« Reply #61 on: September 03, 2010, 12:50:12 pm »
It's amazing how in a thread where we're debating that not all Muslims are terrorists, you repeatedly make sweeping generalisations of the Dutch.
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Re: Community Center Near Ground Zero https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11802.msg155753#msg155753
« Reply #62 on: September 10, 2010, 03:47:39 pm »
It's amazing how in a thread where we're debating that not all Muslims are terrorists, you repeatedly make sweeping generalisations of the Dutch.
Its funny how his thread isnt about whether all muslims are terrorists or not. If someone thinks that, then they should leave the thread, as their oponion isnt welcome.

Back to the original subject, Now, apparently it is going to cause trouble if the CC is moved. So we HAVE to keep it there. I really dont think that is a good reason.

 As to why It should be moved, I never really thought putting a Muslim CC in a place where it is so controversial was a very peaceful thing to do. If it was really placed there to cause unity, it should be quite evident it is doing the opposite. And I do believe that the whole point about there being hundreds of mosques there already is that THERE IS NO ISLAMAPHOBIA nor is there a restriction of religion. If there was , then there wouldnt be that many mosques there in the first place.

And I did answer your question as to why its disrespectful Daxx. You may not agree with it, however, I did answer it.

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What I'm saying is that if the police would've done their homework, this never would have happened. If they would've identified the body, then held it next to the records of the people who worked in those buildings (they recovered a good amount of records of who was in that day) and the flight data , they could've gone there telling people they were sorry for their loss; not to tell them they think their husband is dead and probably a terrorist. There was nothing that related them to the attackers other than they were Muslims and found dead at the site of the Twin Towers.

The 15 thing isn't something I'm bashing BluePriest for, but the American justice system which he so proudly defends. There was absolutely no way he could've been on that plane. BluePriest, you say all things have to be examined; a passenger list is the first thing that comes to my mind that you look at; not the mourning relatives of the victims.
The problem is this. It wasnt some random homicide. It was a matter of national security. I never claimed he was on that plane, all I said is that it is possible that he could have been connected, or his family could have been connected. action had to be taken fast, and every situation, no matter how unlikely, had to be considered. And he may have been 15, I personally knew of a 15 year old who killed her parents, as I think I noted earlier) However, at that, I am leaving this part of the discussion,as it is not wise to have a debate about something when the opposing person is related too closely to the matter. Also, it is rather off topic, because contrary to popular belief, this thread isnt about if all muslims are terrorists or not. its about a community center near ground zero.
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miniwally

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Re: Community Center Near Ground Zero https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11802.msg155754#msg155754
« Reply #63 on: September 10, 2010, 03:50:34 pm »
Wow this has finally made it onto English news, just to check this is the same CC that the christain church is threatening to burn korans (Qur'an?) over right?

Offline tyranim

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Re: Community Center Near Ground Zero https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11802.msg155877#msg155877
« Reply #64 on: September 10, 2010, 10:06:43 pm »
Wow this has finally made it onto English news, just to check this is the same CC that the christain church is threatening to burn korans (Qur'an?) over right?
if this is indeed true, then we just may have YET ANOTHER religious war/POSSIBLE genocide on its way again...
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Re: Community Center Near Ground Zero https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11802.msg155892#msg155892
« Reply #65 on: September 10, 2010, 10:35:29 pm »
Wow this has finally made it onto English news, just to check this is the same CC that the christain church is threatening to burn korans (Qur'an?) over right?
if this is indeed true, then we just may have YET ANOTHER religious war/POSSIBLE genocide on its way again...
Got the link here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11265335

Offline tyranim

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Re: Community Center Near Ground Zero https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11802.msg155903#msg155903
« Reply #66 on: September 10, 2010, 10:58:28 pm »
Wow this has finally made it onto English news, just to check this is the same CC that the christain church is threatening to burn korans (Qur'an?) over right?
after reading the article that you posted, i noticed this little tidbit. its only a man with a few followers planning this
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Mr Jones is the pastor of the tiny and previously little-known Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, Florida and the author of a book entitled Islam is of the Devil.
this is a little snippet of the article that got my gears grinding. THIS is the groop of people who are planning this, not the christian church. when most people say "christian church" they tipically mean the religion as a whole. let me be quoted anywhere on the web if needed.
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Re: Community Center Near Ground Zero https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11802.msg155907#msg155907
« Reply #67 on: September 10, 2010, 11:03:02 pm »
Sorry about that, I shouldn't've put Christian Church thinking about it, instead of "the" I should've put "a" sorry for the mis-information.

Offline tyranim

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Re: Community Center Near Ground Zero https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11802.msg155911#msg155911
« Reply #68 on: September 10, 2010, 11:05:44 pm »
i wasnt ripping on you or anything. i was simply clearifying it in case someone wants to start ripping on you :P
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Re: Community Center Near Ground Zero https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11802.msg155912#msg155912
« Reply #69 on: September 10, 2010, 11:09:06 pm »
And if someone wanted to rip me then I'd agree with them as I stated it wrong and thus meant it sound completely wrong.

Offline Boingo

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Re: Community Center Near Ground Zero https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11802.msg156121#msg156121
« Reply #70 on: September 11, 2010, 02:37:04 am »
There will always be "attention whores" like this unknown Koran-burning group with us.  It's partly the fault of the instant media that this guy even gets a forum.  If this were 1960 or even 1980, there would be no way the rest of the world, much less the rest of the US, would even have heard of this guy.

I, like most of the rest of the world, find the decision to burn the Koran for the publicity distasteful.  But it's not illegal, so just stop paying attention to it already.
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Offline Daytripper

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Re: Community Center Near Ground Zero https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11802.msg156239#msg156239
« Reply #71 on: September 11, 2010, 06:50:36 am »
It's a strange thing. The first half of the Bible and the Koran are the same anyway, and yet, a religious person has no problem burning the latter.

Media attention or not, there are not many local stores that sell Korans. So I doubt many people will be participating here today.
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