communism. is it really so evil?

[avidteen13]

@kalkiran-Have you read "The Giver"?  It's a look at why utopias don't work.  Everything is perfect there.  There is no war, crime is minimal/nonexistent, and everyone grows up and lives their lives perfectly.  But this comes with eliminating things that cause problems.  There are no colors; everything is gray. People might have favoritism if there were colors.  There is no love; for relationships do not always work out.

In civics/economics (8th grade Social Studies curriculum in Virginia, my state), you are taught the ups and downs of different economies.  Command economies (like communist countries) have no consumer choice.  The gov't only allows one brand on the market.  There is no incentive to produce quality. Those low-quality products are sold to you, the consumer, and there is nothing you can do about it.  Without overthrowing the government.

Did you read the entire thread?  Some excellent points were mentioned which show that communism is not a perfect government.

[Boingo]

yes it does need to go on, like every other thread in this section. the purpose that i see in this section is debate. good old healthy debate. this forum has taught me VERY important life lessons, and partially how the human psyche works, but thats a different story... anyway. if you end a discussion with someone dictating the answer, then all your doing is creating the very thing that a lot of people have grown to "fear". i predict this thread will continue on for quite some time. there are WAY too many diverse opinions out there, too many in fact to just end it with one answer.

I hope you know I was joking.  I just couldn't find the sarcasm button.  To be honest, I think "evil" is a strong term and perhaps communism as an abstract principle is not truly evil.  Unworkable, wildly out-of-touch with human motivation, a pipe-dream--these terms may accurately describe communism, but not "evil."

The historical examples of communist governments and leaders, on the other hand, could quite readily be charged with "evil" (though they certainly do not hold a monopoly on the term.)  Some of the greatest atrocities witnessed in the history of humanity have been performed under the guise of communism against "enemies of the state" which were basically people who disagreed with the leading communists of the times.  Or maybe they were related to people who disagreed.  Or happened to own something/anything the leaders wanted for themselves.

The flaw in the logic of most arguments FOR communism is that tend to point out flaws in the alternatives as somehow constituting support for communism. 

Capitalism involves greed, which is BAD, right?  Not necessarily.  If you expect someone to act in their own self-interest, then you have a predictable, workable system.  You can predict who you should partner with by choosing people with similar/shared interests to achieve common goals.  But expecting them to "do the right thing" when nobody is looking is both foolish and ill-advised, no matter what type of government is running things.

Let's turn to a well-known economist on these topics:

Milton Friedman on Greed (

)

Milton Friedman on 4 Ways of Spending Money (

&feature=related) <==he's talking about spending on education, but you can apply it to a government as well

[ddevans96]

When I studied the Cold War, I realized that Communism isn't a bad idea, in fact it's a fairly decent one, just the people who try to put it into power are idiots and want to abuse it. That's my opinion.

Also, in Soviet Russia, this thread posts you! lol

[Zac33333]

Honestly, NO form of government is EVIL. But when a government is flawed, however, its hard to uphold the image of "good" to some people. Just like in say, Iraq, they probably see our government as "flawed", or even to the extent: "Evil". What I'm saying is that, all of our debates, our arguments, and our beliefs are all opinionary, so there is no fact about judgement. When the opinionary scale is this large in these debates, there is no fact, there is beliefs. There is fact, however, on the meaning of the government that the people with the bad opinions fail to see, and they judge on the opions and the rumors, and thus dont care for fact. So in this debate, I would say nobody is TRULY correct, seeing as there is too much of an opinionary basis on all of our sayings. Thats all I have to say about it.

[kalkiran]

@avidteen yeh i read the whole the thing -but if relationships dont always work out then in what sense is it a utopia?

[avidteen13]

There are no relationships in  "The Giver", just predetermined pairs.  Real life relationships do not always work out, and real life is no utopia.

the people with the bad opinions fail to see, and they judge on the opions and the rumors, and thus dont care for fact. So in this debate, I would say nobody is TRULY correct

The people with the bad opinions?  That is another reason why communism doesn't work.  If it is your opinion that the government is corrupt, they will kill you.

I care for fact.  If you show me facts that communism is not a bad idea when put into place, I will consider them.  You did not.

It's a debate.  You are trying to prove your opinions.  Since nobody is TRULY correct in any debate--each side has pros and cons--should we stop having debates? If there are no debates, should we just let the government make all the decisions for us?

[Zac33333]

No because the GOVERNMENT will debate on what for us to do, thus they cant do anything either, thus we would become the perfect utopia of society.


Also, 100th POST! YES!

[avidteen13]

Wait... what?   Government debating on issues means they can't do anything either? Nobody making decisions would make us a perfect utopia?

[Zac33333]

Wait... what?   Government debating on issues means they can't do anything either? Nobody making decisions would make us a perfect utopia?

In a way, yes. Descisions can be good or bad, no descisions, no win or lose, no success or fail, no good or bad. Just, stillness. A frozen utopia.

[avidteen13]

The world is not still.  If we are attacked, and do not make the decision to go to war, we would be attacked until we are taken over.  If judges do not decide whether people are innocent or guilty, crime would be rampant.  Nobody decides if we should continue research.  Nobody decides if vaccines should be developed for superbugs.  Nobody decides what to do about global warming.

That's not a utopia.  That's a dystopia.  The exact opposite of a utopia, where everything is at its worst.

[SeddyRocky]

As stated before, on paper any philosphy/economical ideal/plan = Utopia. Capitalism would mean the free market, with low low prices and goood good quality and opportunites for all. Communism would mean complete equality, no starving, no poor/rich and everyone would help everyone.

[johannhowitzer]

Communism is a great ideal but falls prey too easily to self-interest.  Capitalism works as well as it does in this world because it is the most effective system we've yet found at USING self-interest to maintain itself.  If you know of a better system, you need to tell me.  Tell me NOW.