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bojengles77

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Re: Abortion: Why so serious? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5380.msg69886#msg69886
« Reply #120 on: May 16, 2010, 11:50:33 pm »
So when does a fetus magically become a human?
When its born
Ive got a question then, if it was proved that it was a human, then would you consider it wrong?
What do you mean, if it was proved that it was human? the definition of human is man-made and cannot be "proven". Like i said before, its not about some inane definition, its about the difference between abortion and murder. I personally think that killing a fetus isn't comparable whatsoever to killing a human because a fetus doesn't have a family or a life that it should carry on with. I'm not desensitizing anything, but there are clearly differences between a living person and a fetus - no matter what your definition of "human".

So when does a fetus magically become a human?
When its born
So, as long as all parties (except the baby, of course, nobody ever considers the baby's choice) are willing, you think abortion is OK the day before delivery? an hour before delivery? when the head has been delivered, but not the rest of the baby's body?

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Did I ever say that? no. All i said is that there's a difference between a human and a fetus - you're putting words into my mouth. er, my keyboard? Anyways i doubt a 3 month old fetus has the mental capacity to make many intelligent choices.

CB!

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Re: Abortion: Why so serious? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5380.msg69890#msg69890
« Reply #121 on: May 17, 2010, 12:09:22 am »
If you'll notice, I was asking a question... You're the one that said it was a fetus with no life, and wasn't a human until it was born.  So I'm just asking when during the pregnancy, if at any time, do you oppose abortion, and why do you oppose it at that time of the pregnancy.  If you truly believe that a fetus is not a human being until it's born, then why would you have a problem with abortion at the stages I mentioned?  If you do have a problem with late term abortions, then why? that's all I'm asking...

Offline BluePriest

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Re: Abortion: Why so serious? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5380.msg69920#msg69920
« Reply #122 on: May 17, 2010, 02:35:42 am »
So when does a fetus magically become a human?
When its born
Ive got a question then, if it was proved that it was a human, then would you consider it wrong?
What do you mean, if it was proved that it was human? the definition of human is man-made and cannot be "proven". Like i said before, its not about some inane definition, its about the difference between abortion and murder. I personally think that killing a fetus isn't comparable whatsoever to killing a human because a fetus doesn't have a family or a life that it should carry on with. I'm not desensitizing anything, but there are clearly differences between a living person and a fetus - no matter what your definition of "human".

So when does a fetus magically become a human?
When its born
So, as long as all parties (except the baby, of course, nobody ever considers the baby's choice) are willing, you think abortion is OK the day before delivery? an hour before delivery? when the head has been delivered, but not the rest of the baby's body?

Ninja'd by BluePriest
Did I ever say that? no. All i said is that there's a difference between a human and a fetus - you're putting words into my mouth. er, my keyboard? Anyways i doubt a 3 month old fetus has the mental capacity to make many intelligent choices.
To the bolded part, if it was legally considered murder, would you think abortion was wrong, or would you think the law was wrong? I have other questions, but im only doing 1 question at a time
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bojengles77

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Re: Abortion: Why so serious? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5380.msg69992#msg69992
« Reply #123 on: May 17, 2010, 06:27:14 am »
All of these theoretical questions... If it were a law that abortion was murder, why would that change my opinion?

and @ CB I support abortion to within reasonable limits. I'm not going to say some pointless time period like the third day of the 2nd trimester, it obviously depends on the situation. I'm pro choice, not pro murder.

CB!

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Re: Abortion: Why so serious? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5380.msg70057#msg70057
« Reply #124 on: May 17, 2010, 02:12:30 pm »
All of these theoretical questions... If it were a law that abortion was murder, why would that change my opinion?

and @ CB I support abortion to within reasonable limits. I'm not going to say some pointless time period like the third day of the 2nd trimester, it obviously depends on the situation. I'm pro choice, not pro murder.
I just see abortion as the same thing as murder (@Belthus: not murder as a legal term, but rather murder as taking an innocent life).  I don't think abortion is OK if the mother is a teen and isn't mature enough to raise the baby... I don't think abortion is OK if tests reveal that the baby has downs syndrome... I don't think abortion is OK in the case of rape... I believe a human life is created at conception, regardless of if the baby can feel pain or make a decision.  We know that 9 months from conception, a baby will be born.  So to say that an unborn baby (or fetus) is anything but a human being is asinine.  The unborn baby is always innocent, but unfortunately always has no voice or say in the matter...

We'll just have to agree to disagree, as it's going to take more than a forum debate to change anyone's mind on the matter...

Offline BluePriest

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Re: Abortion: Why so serious? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5380.msg70319#msg70319
« Reply #125 on: May 18, 2010, 12:05:16 am »
All of these theoretical questions... If it were a law that abortion was murder, why would that change my opinion?

and @ CB I support abortion to within reasonable limits. I'm not going to say some pointless time period like the third day of the 2nd trimester, it obviously depends on the situation. I'm pro choice, not pro murder.
Because you said that we are tlaking about the difference between abortion and murder, and so if it was considered murder, it would be the same thing.
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bojengles77

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Re: Abortion: Why so serious? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5380.msg70334#msg70334
« Reply #126 on: May 18, 2010, 12:36:37 am »
All of these theoretical questions... If it were a law that abortion was murder, why would that change my opinion?

and @ CB I support abortion to within reasonable limits. I'm not going to say some pointless time period like the third day of the 2nd trimester, it obviously depends on the situation. I'm pro choice, not pro murder.
Because you said that we are tlaking about the difference between abortion and murder, and so if it was considered murder, it would be the same thing.
I'm just gonna say that if someone else considers it murder, that doesn't change my definition. Also - I agree with CB. AT this point, we're just being redundant so i'll commend you all on a good debate but abortion is just one of those things... agree to disagree.  <3

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Re: Abortion: Why so serious? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5380.msg70373#msg70373
« Reply #127 on: May 18, 2010, 01:51:53 am »
I just think its fun to talk about things like this. Debates like this I dont do to try to change someones mind, I just think its interesting hearing the other persons side of the argument. Sometimes its different, and sometimes its the same old thing. Its fun IMO, as long as it doesnt get personal, which I think everyone did a great job of not making it personal.
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bojengles77

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Re: Abortion: Why so serious? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5380.msg70921#msg70921
« Reply #128 on: May 19, 2010, 01:06:34 am »
I just think its fun to talk about things like this. Debates like this I dont do to try to change someones mind, I just think its interesting hearing the other persons side of the argument. Sometimes its different, and sometimes its the same old thing. Its fun IMO, as long as it doesnt get personal, which I think everyone did a great job of not making it personal.
Yeah TBH I looked forward to seeing this thread on my updated topics. I had a lot of fun with it and its interesting to see a lot of different opinions on the matter

noso1928

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Re: Abortion: Why so serious? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5380.msg77608#msg77608
« Reply #129 on: May 29, 2010, 09:36:58 pm »
            Abortion is a heavy topic, but when it comes to my views, I am definitely Pro-Life :life :life. Disregarding all other arguments made on this thread, the main question is: At which point does life begin? To the people comparing plants to humans, this is a ridiculous argument  because the two are so different and have almost nothing in common. So... what is the definition of life? To Puppychow, telling us your definition of life comes from a textbook is irrelevant. History textbooks use to teach that rock music was evil and belonged to satan. The number one thing that defines life is growth. The argument can be made that as adults we are all dead because we are not growing anymore. False, our cells are exponentially multiplying as you read this. When life ceases to exist, cells stop growing. So when does a human's life truly begin? Well.. when does it start to grow? At conception... to say that even a two week old fetus is not alive is absurd. If it's not alive, then how is it growing? Some have argued the same thing happens when a person gets cancer or a wart. The difference from a fetus and a tumor is that a fetus is a natural growth. A tumor is not. This bring me to my next point. Some would argue that a fetus is not a human.. that would only be half correct. The fetus isn't an animal, some plant, or any nonsense garbage like that. If the fetus is not alive or if it isn't human, then why does it have human DNA the moment it is conceived. It is a human at a different stage of life just like you and I.
          Justifying abortion because a women was raped is just plain and simple... wrong. Why take another's life because something bad happened to you? Or.. some have argued that the child would be a constant reminder of that traumatic event. Ok.. so put it up for adoption, problem solved. Nothing justifies taking another persons life.
          Some people even decided to play the overpopulation card. As a resident of the U.S., I can freely say we are nowhere near that, and even if we were, killing millions of unborn children is not the solution. I'm sure we would have more room in our country if we enforced our borders and got rid of all the illegal immigrants.
          So according to some people, it is only a human if it can feel pain. So it's not a human because it hasn't developed a nervous system yet? This must justify some people's opinion for abortion.  What about people with Familial Dysautonomia? Are they not human? Just because a child hasn't fully developed, does not give you the right to kill it. That is an absurd argument.
          One in four children are aborted. Think about it. How many people have we killed that found the next cure for cancer? How many Einstein's have we killed? How many world leaders have been aborted? Who knows.. but at least a few. When a baby is aborted, you are not only killing one human. You are killing the children that child would have had. AND the children their children would have had.. and so on. Abortion is always wrong. No matter how you put it. I'm sure all of your opinions would change if your mother decided to abort you.

Uzra

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Re: Abortion: Why so serious? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5380.msg78798#msg78798
« Reply #130 on: May 31, 2010, 04:10:17 pm »
How about we test and see if there is a correlation between one's position and other things.  So answer all the questions with yes or no and maybe we'll see something.

Do you think abortion is ok in the case of a raped 11 year old girl?
What is your sex?
Do you think abortion is ok in the case of accidental pregnancy at 16 years old?
What is your religious affiliation/beliefs if any?
Do you think abortion is ok in the case of 3 month pregnancy and discovery of down syndrome?
What is your political affiliation/beliefs is any?
Do you support gay marriage?
Do you think fox news is mostly fair and balanced?

=)

Offline BluePriest

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Re: Abortion: Why so serious? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5380.msg80209#msg80209
« Reply #131 on: June 02, 2010, 06:25:11 am »
How about we test and see if there is a correlation between one's position and other things.  So answer all the questions with yes or no and maybe we'll see something.

Do you think abortion is ok in the case of a raped 11 year old girl? Yes
What is your sex? Yes
Do you think abortion is ok in the case of accidental pregnancy at 16 years old? No
What is your religious affiliation/beliefs if any? Yes
Do you think abortion is ok in the case of 3 month pregnancy and discovery of down syndrome? No
What is your political affiliation/beliefs is any? Yes
Do you support gay marriage? Maybe
Do you think fox news is mostly fair and balanced? Maybe

=)
Ok, this thing is just too enjoyable to pass up. Bolded my answers.

Heres the problem with your line of questions.
1)You asked for yes no and maybe answers when some required more.
2)You allowed for maybe as an option, when the whole point of your questions was to get a straight answer
3)Your questions point to the assumption of if A=True, then B=True
4)Some of your questions are irrelevant, and really are just simply there to stereotype someone.
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