Abortion: Why so serious?

[BluePriest]

This: vvv

But the fact that an abortion is available to people changes the situation completely and will change peoples' decision making process whether abortions are "legal" or not, they wouldn't be hard to find. Also, dealing with life isn't necessarily dealing with the consequences of a sexual relationship. Although having an abortion is probably the "easier" way out, there are psychological consequences of knowing that you aborted your unborn child. I agree that people should have the choice to do what they want within their resources and the consequences are theirs to deal with.

except from an economic standpoint, because when dumb people mess up the economy, we all pay the price.

And this: vvv

I just fundamentally disagree with you in the fact that the life of the baby has been affected. There is no baby, its a fetus. There is no life, no personality, no traits. Maybe if the fetus were comprehensive i could understand - and this is the goal of getting rid of later abortions, which i agree with. However, if i can do something that can easily be fixed if it goes wrong, there is no huge incentive pushing me away from that option. If you had a "get out of jail free card" wouldn't you use it?

How can you call it an unborn child when you're talking about the emotional scars left from an abortion, but then say there's no baby, no life when defending your stance on abortion?  And at what point in the pregnancy does the fetus with no life become an unborn child?

pwned..

[bojengles77]

How can you call it an unborn child when you're talking about the emotional scars left from an abortion, but then say there's no baby, no life when defending your stance on abortion?  And at what point in the pregnancy does the fetus with no life become an unborn child?

1. calling it an unborn child and leaving emotional scars is a possible consequence, not my view on abortion.
2. this is my view - that there is a certain, hazy point where it becomes wrong to get an abortion, but I think the option should be there especially in early stages
3. no one knows - thats kind of the issue i suppose

[CB!]

How can you call it an unborn child when you're talking about the emotional scars left from an abortion, but then say there's no baby, no life when defending your stance on abortion?  And at what point in the pregnancy does the fetus with no life become an unborn child?

1. calling it an unborn child and leaving emotional scars is a possible consequence, not my view on abortion.
2. this is my view - that there is a certain, hazy point where it becomes wrong to get an abortion, but I think the option should be there especially in early stages
3. no one knows - thats kind of the issue i suppose

1. Then why in your argument did you refer to it as an unborn child? rather than a lifeless fetus?

2. OK, so if you get an abortion during this certain, hazy point, why is it then wrong?  Is it because an ultrasound shows something that looks more like a baby?  Is it because you can hear a heartbeat?  It's like picking an apple from a tree before it's had time to develop and saying that it's not an apple... No matter how you look at it, where the baby is when you kill it doesn't make it ok to kill...

3. I would argue that deep down if people really sought the truth for themselves they really would know, and it wouldn't be an issue.  But society has renamed an unborn child, a fetus, desensitizing us a little.  They've told us they don't feel pain, desensitizing us a little more.  Until finally we have a generation that's OK with killing their children as long as you do it before the child is actually born.

[icybraker]

FETUS



I'm so sorry. Please continue.

[Belthus]

Having an abortion is dealing with the consequences of sexual activity. You may think that it is a bad way of dealing with the consequences, but it does in fact deal with them, as opposed to ignoring them. The individual at the very center of the problem takes action by going to an abortion provider, paying the fee, and submitting to the procedure. No public money is used, as opposed to a woman who needs public assistance to support a child. It is ironic that people who are pro-life also tend to have the most punitive attitudes toward people who need public assistance. An abortion is an individual solution in a society where social solutions are stigmatized and underfunded.

[BluePriest]

Having an abortion is dealing with the consequences of sexual activity. You may think that it is a bad way of dealing with the consequences, but it does in fact deal with them, as opposed to ignoring them. The individual at the very center of the problem takes action by going to an abortion provider, paying the fee, and submitting to the procedure. No public money is used, as opposed to a woman who needs public assistance to support a child. It is ironic that people who are pro-life also tend to have the most punitive attitudes toward people who need public assistance. An abortion is an individual solution in a society where social solutions are stigmatized and underfunded.

Theres 2 ways to deal with it.
1)Going through everything, no matter how long it takes,
2)Running away from it, trying to make it disappear

Guess which one abortion does?
If yo guessed 2, then good job, you get a cookie.
*sets out cookie jar for anyone who guessed 2*

Paying money to get something erased is still ignoring it.

[bojengles77]

I'm not saying you don't have a solid argument, but saying things like one side is "running away" from problems and making the other side sound like roughing it out and dealing with the strife and troubles of life all while building character just seems like biased ranting. Anyways, paying money to get something erased isn't ignoring it, it's doing something about it that happens to involve money... doing nothing about it and throwing your baby into the street or an orphanage would be closer to ignoring it. I'd say in general its pretty hard to "ignore" a pregnancy

[Belthus]

Theres 2 ways to deal with it.
1)Going through everything, no matter how long it takes,
2)Running away from it, trying to make it disappear

Guess which one abortion does?
If yo guessed 2, then good job, you get a cookie.
*sets out cookie jar for anyone who guessed 2*

Paying money to get something erased is still ignoring it.

No. The woman who gets an abortion has dealt with her problem. It no longer exists.

Just because something is the harder thing to do doesn't make it better. It's harder to create a thriving command economy than a thriving market economy. That doesn't mean a command economy is the way to go. It's harder to compete in a race if you amputate your legs, but that would be a stupid thing to do.

[Boingo]

Having an abortion is dealing with the consequences of sexual activity. You may think that it is a bad way of dealing with the consequences, but it does in fact deal with them, as opposed to ignoring them. The individual at the very center of the problem takes action by going to an abortion provider, paying the fee, and submitting to the procedure.

Uh, not exactly the individual at the very center of the problem, just the one with the cash.

[BluePriest]

I'm not saying you don't have a solid argument, but saying things like one side is "running away" from problems and making the other side sound like roughing it out and dealing with the strife and troubles of life all while building character just seems like biased ranting. Anyways, paying money to get something erased isn't ignoring it, it's doing something about it that happens to involve money... doing nothing about it and throwing your baby into the street or an orphanage would be closer to ignoring it. I'd say in general its pretty hard to "ignore" a pregnancy

Im doing extremes of sides to show a point, but you are right that it isnt "doing nothing"
As you said its next to impossible to ignore a pregnancy. Heres a better way of looking at it for comparison.

Im sticking with the dealing with the consequences thing, but im giving a spin on it.

Situation 1
Say I broke into jail.
I got caught
The natural consequence is going to jail
I paid the judge off to avoid jail

Situation 2
I am in politics
Theres people that dont like me
The natural consequence is that you will have people giving you a bad name (since youre in politics you probably deserve it anyways )
I pay an assassin to go rambo on you and kill you

Situation 3
Now, lets relate it to abortions
I had sex.
I got pregnant
The natural consequence (and I hate using that term for a human being, but its just for sake of argument) is having a baby
You pay someone to kill it for you so you dont have to deal with it.

_____________

Those are mainly fun examples, lightening the mood a little, dont take them TOO seriously.

I honestly cant believe I have let this debate get the better of me, when theres tons of scientific evidence showing that at 20 weeks a baby can feel pain.

Let me ask the people who Support abortions this question.

Do you consider it an actual human being?
If not, why?
If you do/did  consider it a human being, then would you still say abortions are ok?
What requirements are neccessary for you to say its a human being?
_____
I believe those 3 questions are the root of the situation.

[CB!]

2. OK, so if you get an abortion during this certain, hazy point, why is it then wrong?

Let me ask the people who Support abortions this question.

Do you consider it an actual human being?
If not, why?
If you do/did  consider it a human being, then would you still say abortions are ok?
What requirements are neccessary for you to say its a human being?
_____
I believe those 3 questions are the root of the situation.

These are the questions that probably won't be answered... at least not honestly by the actual individual.  It's always the spoon fed answer from Planned Parenthood...

[Belthus]

Situation 3
Now, lets relate it to abortions
I had sex.
I got pregnant
The natural consequence (and I hate using that term for a human being, but its just for sake of argument) is having a baby
You pay someone to kill it for you so you dont have to deal with it.

What does "natural" have to do with your judgments about right and wrong? If you get sick, it's natural to recover on your own or die or suffer a permanent condition, as the case may be. It is unnatural to get antibiotics or chemotherapy or surgery.

Infanticide is common in human societies and in animals. Ever had hamsters or guinea pigs or mice? It's a good idea to separate the mother from the babies right after birth or there is a good chance she will kill them. Nature can be pretty ugly.