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Offline artimies7

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Re: Soul https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31435.msg398217#msg398217
« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2011, 01:19:19 am »
If you think you have a soul you think you have a soul.

If you think you don't have a soul, you don't have a soul.
What about if other people come to a consensus?
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Re: Soul https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31435.msg398224#msg398224
« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2011, 01:25:43 am »
I'm too lazy and that's too complicated. No Im not.


Then the entity that they perceive has a soul from their perspective.

Offline artimies7

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Re: Soul https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31435.msg398229#msg398229
« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2011, 01:28:44 am »
I'm too lazy and that's too complicated. No Im not.


Then the entity that they perceive has a soul from their perspective.
Just a really little one. For if you don't think you have a soul, you're most likely to not act as though one is holding you in.

I'm pretty sure, anyway. I mean, I have a soul and always have, so I wouldn't know.
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Offline Rastafla

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Re: Soul https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31435.msg400116#msg400116
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2011, 01:47:56 pm »
Souls is a religious idea used in several ways to elevate ourselves over animals and whatnot and it also brings relief and hope to those who cant find it in reality as a way to live after their life is gone.
Spirituality is equally bogus concept but with some good use as you feel a connection with all life and other hippie (I have no no bad connotations regarding that) ideas if you are into nature then you have a respect for it and show that you have self preservation, if its in relation to church just as bad as belief in souls as then you dont need to care at all for reality since you will live on in the imagination.

Humans like all other living things are biological machines. Its the pattern of cells in our brain that keeps all info about who we are what we are and what we will do in the future. If a brain is damaged the personality can change and we are a new being. Every second is the end of life as we know it for that person who was there before you.

If you think of souls as the energy of the mind you are screwed regardless. When we die the matrix of our brain is lost and so is the medium of this energy mumbo jumbo.

Souls are a convenient solution to fear of death. At least spirituality does some good.
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Re: Soul https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31435.msg401315#msg401315
« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2011, 09:46:26 pm »
The soul, from what I understand, is an intangible part of every human that gives us the power to make our own decisions.

Many irreligious people do not believe there is such a thing, and thus we do not have free will, by extension of evolution. We do nothing more than react to our surroundings.

Offline Rastafla

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Re: Soul https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31435.msg401344#msg401344
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2011, 11:00:10 pm »
Evidence suggest we don't have free will at all. There's a group of scientists in repeatable tests who can up to 6 seconds before you have decided to choose, tell what you will choose and be correct with no errors. The subconscious decides for your conscious mind what to do and evidence suggest that the conscious mind only shape this decision. IE, your so called free will (conscious mind) is the puppet who runs the masters (subconcious) errand and tries to complete its assigned task at the best of its ability.

Some thinks this is frightening I think its fascinating. To me it shows how underdeveloped our species really is, govern by something so primal and prehistoric as our subconscious.

It was on BBC "The Secret You" from 2010 i believe. It was all frontier brain research.

Also what the so called soul is, nobody knows. Its something made up and its different for everyone who believes in it. Its religion through and through.
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Offline artimies7

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Re: Soul https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31435.msg401372#msg401372
« Reply #30 on: September 30, 2011, 12:34:46 am »
*BahHumbug*
Also what the so called soul is, nobody knows. Its something made up and its different for everyone who believes in it.
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Re: Soul https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31435.msg401424#msg401424
« Reply #31 on: September 30, 2011, 02:51:24 am »
Just to clarify my views (I like to argue when I'm a bit drunk) and keeping in mind Rasta's thoughts: If a consciousness is the puppet for consciousness then it would be complitely useless and unneeded. That would be hard to accept. There are much more examples where subconsciousness reacts to the plans and expectations of consciusness - when I want to say something and I never exactly don't know how I'm going to do that, but usually it happens smoothly due to sobconscious mechanism. If I want to move my arm, I'm never actually aware of those mechanisms what move my arm. If I want to find a lover, then I'm starting to see beautiful girls in the street  :) . Anyway it's more healthy to assume some kind of harmony between these two parts of consciousness, Freudian accounts are out of fashion anyway. If there are really scientists who can predicts what I'm gonna do after 6 seconds, then what it proves? Definitely not the nonexistence of the free will. First, one should always be very sceptical about that kind of results, there is so much scientific noise everywhere (if some scientist says that he is 100 percent positive results result regarding something that is biological, then he's definitely wrong, since even hardcore main laws of physics have trouble to achieve that kind of results). There are also some tests when the body reacts to accident before it really has happened - blood pressure arises etc. Animals react in the same way. That doesn't prove the existence of destiny, for example. This probably means that the body is mainly ruled by the subconsciousness, which in turn should be really smart part of the I (soul). It reacts slightly before every action happened. And I don't know how it exactly does all that. Nobody knows, since it's subconsciousnss. When a person is already involved to some kind of troublesome situation or bad choices, then subconsciousnes doesn't cause that situation, but rather starts to prepare actions agains that. But still, I think it's normal to assume that consciousnessis, at least ideally, is adequate enough to rule it's everyday actions, based on it's will (although there may and are several obstacles to it in practice). Otherwise every single action, thought, plan etc would be doubtful, harmful, dangeraous, stupid, etc.. This would be basically crazy, humans couldn't exist in that way.  And consciousness should give orders to subconsciousness, that's why it is consciousness that deals with the physical reality. Its will is not "caused" by the subconsiosness for several reason. First of all, as I said, in that case consciousness would be useless. Secondy, if we understand consciousness as something that is conscious, then it would be really hard to understand how something from the "outside" could have influence to it in a way it isn't aware. That wouldn't be consciousness that is something like no-conscious consciousness at the same time, or basically nonsense. The relation between conciousness and non-consciousness is not so much causal but rather the relation of similarity. They essentialy "want" same things (there may be also one of the reason of the success of that scientific experiment), because it's the same soul. But of course, the communication between the parts of consiousnesses may suffer for the several reasons. And for addition, just simply being conscious in everyday sense is not neither religious nor semantic error, nor the matter of belief, but just the only way people are and recognize themselves as being aware of something and being self-conscious at the same time  too. No matter how much you observe things in scientific way, you can't find consciousness there, never.
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Offline Rastafla

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Re: Soul https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31435.msg401495#msg401495
« Reply #32 on: September 30, 2011, 06:31:39 am »
All they have is evidence, not yet fact and evidence as we know can point in different ways depending on point of view. Few things are facts in science, there is evidence and lots of it which forms theories. It takes a really long time before you have fact.

Several layers of conscious is not meaningless, compare it to chain of command and shift workers etc. the benefits are many, if one is damaged the other can take over.
That with reacting before something happens, the subconscious is privy to everything, the conscious mind sifts and makes it easy to navigate in all sensory input, its not strange that the subconscious learns something and triggers the red warning lamps of "DANGER" in our minds and forces our frontal cortex to be alert and working on peak efficiency.

In any case the thing is that who we are is largely the product of the conscious mind. Easily tampered with, fooled and duped or damaged which changes it and essentially turn us into another human being with new a new set of ethics morality and beliefs. The subconscious is happy as long as we are going at things alive and kicking, outside of that it doesn't care.
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Offline Skotadi Phobos

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Re: Soul https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31435.msg409715#msg409715
« Reply #33 on: October 14, 2011, 06:31:09 pm »
I haven't studied this to much but what about noetics.
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Offline tyranim

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Re: Soul https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31435.msg409747#msg409747
« Reply #34 on: October 14, 2011, 07:27:04 pm »
in a scientific stand point, a soul might simply be the internal "personality" of your nervous system and brain activity. now, if you were to look at it scientifically, the next question some may ask is "what causes our brain to be able to hold such an immense ammount of memory and why have we not yet used this in technology?" the answer to this question is actually pretty simple, yet still extremely complex: because research into how human brains work (without using machines that scan the brain's activities). these machines are not enough to find out how the brain can contain as much memory as several sky scrapers FILLED with super computers and still remain so small. in order to find this out, we would have to look at the chemical composition of the brain and how it's all arranged. but this is deemed against many religous beliefes and therefor illegal in the U.S.
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Re: Soul https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31435.msg451447#msg451447
« Reply #35 on: January 22, 2012, 10:05:57 am »
What is a soul? What is required of a being for it to have a soul? Also, if you die, what happens to your soul?

And also, if you manage to somehow replace each lobe of your brain with a microchip that perfectly simulates the replaced lobe, (you can live without some lobes, see Phineas Gage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage)) are you still alive, and do you (or it) still have a soul?
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