Soul

[Hyroen]

Just for clarification purposes, Phineas Gage didn't have a lobe removed or shut off as implied. Severe damage was done to the frontal lobes of the telencephalon, greatly affecting his higher order cognition such as emotions, memory, and conduct.

This however does not mean that other functions of the frontal lobes were terminated, and even then, to say that the frontal lobes are discrete components of the brain would not be true either, the brain is sectioned off into 4 lobes for simplicity and to classify general activities of each region. There is however more than sufficient communication in the brain to say that it is not simply 4 lobes.

Just sayin'. Gotta admit, that Biopsychology course I'm taking this year has finally come in handy! ^_^

my point is that "the soul does not exist because the nervous system explains everything" is a valid argument, saying "the soul does not exist because the ego is what keeps mechanisms in check" is not.

Not quite. While the nervous system, along with the other integral systems of the body make the human body what it is, the soul can easily be another system of the body that cannot be defined with energy or matter that the human being can understand nor study.

On the basis of belief, the soul can be the link to a more religious and transcendental realm, and cannot be discredited by the fact that the "nervous system explains everything".

I for one would like to believe that I don't just decompose through time.

[russianspy1234]

Just for clarification purposes, Phineas Gage didn't have a lobe removed or shut off as implied. Severe damage was done to the frontal lobes of the telencephalon, greatly affecting his higher order cognition such as emotions, memory, and conduct.

This however does not mean that other functions of the frontal lobes were terminated, and even then, to say that the frontal lobes are discrete components of the brain would not be true either, the brain is sectioned off into 4 lobes for simplicity and to classify general activities of each region. There is however more than sufficient communication in the brain to say that it is not simply 4 lobes.

Just sayin'. Gotta admit, that Biopsychology course I'm taking this year has finally come in handy! ^_^

my point is that "the soul does not exist because the nervous system explains everything" is a valid argument, saying "the soul does not exist because the ego is what keeps mechanisms in check" is not.

Not quite. While the nervous system, along with the other integral systems of the body make the human body what it is, the soul can easily be another system of the body that cannot be defined with energy or matter that the human being can understand nor study.

On the basis of belief, the soul can be the link to a more religious and transcendental realm, and cannot be discredited by the fact that the "nervous system explains everything".

I for one would like to believe that I don't just decompose through time.

didnt say i agreed with it, just said it was a valid argument.  "wrong" and "invalid" are two different things.

[Hyroen]

@above: That's lovely, but I was talking to whoever was saying that, whether it was or wasn't you.

Oh and I'm well aware of the differences between wrong and invalid. Thanks though.

[russianspy1234]

@above: That's lovely, but I was talking to whoever was saying that, whether it was or wasn't you.

Oh and I'm well aware of the differences between wrong and invalid. Thanks though.

well you quoted me so i figured you were talking to me.

[pervepic]

The old problem is that soul (consciousness) and its experiences can't be easily described in terms of material objects. Its not a problem of semantics only. Just common things from the first person's perspective: being conscious of something, sense of identity or "I", feedom, meaning, value, thought, emotion etc. At best we can sees some correlations in material objects, but it's quite dubious to interpret those as "causes" of the mental events: there is nothing in the body where exactly we can find "I", there is impossible to explain the sense of everyday freedom in causal terms (what kind of freedom that would be if it is caused by some kind of movement of molecules? it wouldn't be freedom at all!), nerves don't have meanings, values, emotions; and it's just hard to see how molecules could produce meanings, for example. And consciousness of something...you just can't find that through observing things, since it's not a thing. You can have also some awareness in dreams, but the body there is definitely not experiencd as the physical one.

Popular "solutions" to all this try to convince us that first person's perspective (consciousness, soul and its freedom, mental life, etc) as mainly just an illusion that is caused by the "objective" material reality - the magical dance of the smart molecules. There were and still are so many different opinions in that question.

[OldTrees]

The following question may or may not be relevant:
Who are you?

In what way do you mean this? I see myself as a normal (who doesn't see themself as normal? ) person. How would who I am affect a soul? Maybe because religions define souls differently? I'm agnostic.

Sorry for the late answer.

Different people use different concepts of self when discussing who they are. I personally have 2 different concepts I distinguish between.
1) The entire decision making machine including free will if it exists.
2) The part of the decision making machine that is aware of the decision making machine.

A soul is typically used to describe a concept of self that includes the self being able to leaving the body.

[Belthus]

Not quite. While the nervous system, along with the other integral systems of the body make the human body what it is, the soul can easily be another system of the body that cannot be defined with energy or matter that the human being can understand nor study.

If something cannot be understood or studied, then you cannot meaningfully say anything more about it.

On the basis of belief, the soul can be the link to a more religious and transcendental realm, and cannot be discredited by the fact that the "nervous system explains everything".

Yes, it can be discredited, and it has. You have the information to understand it, but you (and many others) seem to be in denial because of what you (and many others) want to believe. I want to live forever too, but I have no reason at all to believe that I, or anyone else, can or will live forever.

I for one would like to believe that I don't just decompose through time.

Wanting doesn't make it so.

[Hyroen]

Belthus has just defined atheism. ^_^

[Belthus]

If you start having hallucinations, would you want your doctor to treat you on the basis of modern medical science? Or would you want him or her to treat you by performing a ritual to cast out evil spirits? Your doctor may believe in the soul in private, but do you want him or her to ignore established scientific knowledge and treat you on the basis of a belief that has no evidence?

[Draynoth]

My personal belief is that a soul is a conceptual solidification of your morals and beliefs, if that makes sense. I don't believe that it's a physical entity.

[artimies7]

Answer: Both. It's self-causing.

My view: The soul is what keeps all your other control mechanisms (heart, logic, conciousness, d**k, etc.) from dissolving into a big inter-body war.

Doesn't the Ego also keep those mechanisms in control too?

the ego is a psychological concept in one of several competing theories, not a physical thing.

But neither is the soul.

my point is that "the soul does not exist because the nervous system explains everything" is a valid argument, saying "the soul does not exist because the ego is what keeps mechanisms in check" is not.

Overquote much?

But the ego is an opponent to humility, both of which help keep your self-esteem and self-ranking procedures in check.

And they're all sort of real, you just can't see them.
Can you see inside your fridge when there's a rotten smell during a power outage? Not really.
But you know there's something rotting. There's a smell, and last time you smelled something like that, you were compelled to clean out your fridge. [/metaphor]

*controversialtopicsnip*Animals I have been told do not have a soul.

I think that you can give animals a bit of your soul. Like with beloved pets.

[Skullgasm]

If you think you have a soul you think you have a soul.

If you think you don't have a soul, you don't have a soul.



A soul(just like everything else) is what people say it is.

If I have a rock, and I say its a soul... then I have a soul :[].

Of course then there's a question of do you really HAVE a rock.. I mean you perceive there's a rock there... but you don't know for sure that it is there,
all you know is what your sense that your senses are sensing. (Id like to say that all you know is what your sensing, but as technology increases, those are getting easier to fool :/)