Should You Kill the Fat Man?

[ProBacon]

http://www.philosophyexperiments.com/fatman/

What are your thoughts?

[Sera]

Mmm. That's odd. It's pitting two moral principles between each other, treating them as absolutes. I believe on maximizing overall happiness. I also believe that torture is morally wrong, but if it increases overall happiness then go ahead. I also believe that ignoring something you -know- could have prevented makes you an indirect cause. You're not obligated to follow those principles though.

[OldTrees]

Ah, the good old Trolley Problem with a few of its variations (I expected to see the emergency room one as well). One of the interesting things about the Trolley Problem is that most people give inconsistent answers when answering via moral intuition rather than by moral theory. Several concepts have arisen out of looking for (or rationalizing) consistency in the reactions of our moral intuitions. However separated from their origins they are quite interesting concepts. One example being: "Are killing and letting die morally equivalent or is there some morally relevant difference?"

[ProBacon]

Think about a newborn child. This child has been born with no senses at all. He can not feel, hear, taste, smell or see. We are aware of his existence but the true question is...

Does the child know of his own existence?

[Gorghandi]

the newborn does not know-" if it exists, it doesn't even realize yet that it doesn't know. it is bombarded by so many fresh new smells sounds, auric-like sight. and a brain is unable to process, let alone have storage sections set up yet. to organize it. with this bombardment, it doesn't have thought yet. nor reflections. it is also apparent, that this is true cause shortly after its infant/toddler stages, it struggles with knowing the difference between itself and its mother/main parent. its not till about 3-4ish when it can really grasp it is not its parent, and that it exists in some manner by itself.

[OldTrees]

Think about a newborn child. This child has been born with no senses at all. He can not feel, hear, taste, smell or see. We are aware of his existence but the true question is...

Does the child know of his own existence?

What is the scope and character of the moral significance of awareness in the present of your own existence?
(no need to limit this to newborn children if awareness is the factor you are examining)

[ProBacon]

Think about a newborn child. This child has been born with no senses at all. He can not feel, hear, taste, smell or see. We are aware of his existence but the true question is...

Does the child know of his own existence?

What is the scope and character of the moral significance of awareness in the present of your own existence?
(no need to limit this to newborn children if awareness is the factor you are examining)

Let me ask you a question then. How do you know you exist? What makes you aware of your existence?

[Demagog]

I think; therefore, I am.

However, is something that has never had any input capable of thought even if it definitely would if it had a single input? What came first, the thought or the sense?

[rob77dp]

Think about a newborn child. This child has been born with no senses at all. He can not feel, hear, taste, smell or see. We are aware of his existence but the true question is...

Does the child know of his own existence?

For me, I perceive the existence of the newborn therefore the newborn exists to me and I would act according to their being existent. Whether the newborn is "aware of [their] existence" is a question with very little import.

[OldTrees]

Think about a newborn child. This child has been born with no senses at all. He can not feel, hear, taste, smell or see. We are aware of his existence but the true question is...

Does the child know of his own existence?

What is the scope and character of the moral significance of awareness in the present of your own existence?
(no need to limit this to newborn children if awareness is the factor you are examining)

Let me ask you a question then. How do you know you exist? What makes you aware of your existence?

Well "I think therefore I am" implies "I think I think therefore I know I am". So I will return the question post clarification as:

What is the scope and character of the moral significance of metacognition (especially in comparison to various kinds of potential for metacognition)?
Consider John Smith. John is asleep 33% of the time. While asleep John is not aware of their existence but when awake is aware of their existence.

[rob77dp]

Think about a newborn child. This child has been born with no senses at all. He can not feel, hear, taste, smell or see. We are aware of his existence but the true question is...

Does the child know of his own existence?

What is the scope and character of the moral significance of awareness in the present of your own existence?
(no need to limit this to newborn children if awareness is the factor you are examining)

Let me ask you a question then. How do you know you exist? What makes you aware of your existence?

Well "I think therefore I am" implies "I think I think therefore I know I am". So I will return the question post clarification as:

What is the scope and character of the moral significance of metacognition (especially in comparison to various kinds of potential for metacognition)?
Consider John Smith. John is asleep 33% of the time. While asleep John is not aware of their existence but when awake is aware of their existence.

Are we approaching the asking of the question:

If a person existed absent the presence of any other human beings then does the person really exist?

What about:
- Can a person that does not exist be murdered?
- Is a person who murders another sleeping person guilty of murder?

[OldTrees]

Think about a newborn child. This child has been born with no senses at all. He can not feel, hear, taste, smell or see. We are aware of his existence but the true question is...

Does the child know of his own existence?

What is the scope and character of the moral significance of awareness in the present of your own existence?
(no need to limit this to newborn children if awareness is the factor you are examining)

Let me ask you a question then. How do you know you exist? What makes you aware of your existence?

Well "I think therefore I am" implies "I think I think therefore I know I am". So I will return the question post clarification as:

What is the scope and character of the moral significance of metacognition (especially in comparison to various kinds of potential for metacognition)?
Consider John Smith. John is asleep 33% of the time. While asleep John is not aware of their existence but when awake is aware of their existence.

Are we approaching the asking of the question:

If a person existed absent the presence of any other human beings then does the person really exist?

What about:
- Can a person that does not exist be murdered?
- Is a person who murders another sleeping person guilty of murder?

That is not the direction I was going. The initial question in this quote tree asked if a newborn was aware of its own existence. So I was asking "why/how would it matter?" while also making the question more generic to include more cases and discharge possible kneejerk arguments

Although it is in the neighborhood of "Is a person who kills another sleeping person guilty of murder?" (please forgive my pedantic precision here).