Poll

Do you prefer safety or freedom?

Safety
3 (11.5%)
Freedom
14 (53.8%)
Something more practical
3 (11.5%)
Neither
0 (0%)
Cake
6 (23.1%)

Total Members Voted: 26

*Author

Offline AnonymousRevivalTopic starter

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Safety or Freedom? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42741.msg532931#msg532931
« on: August 14, 2012, 07:45:24 am »
Some safety can provide freedom, and some freedom can provide safety. But if you ultimately have to choose one, which would you choose?

Safety will make you live longer, but it will not make you as happy as freedom

Freedom will make you live a shorter life, but a more fulfilling and comfortable one.
Ignotum venit retro vivere. :aether :light

Offline OldTrees

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Re: Safety or Freedom? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42741.msg532934#msg532934
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2012, 07:56:07 am »
1 imprecise answer

Freedom.
I am not entitled to other people. I should not make demands of them. Rather I can only request and try to come to an arrangement.

2 more precise but evasive answers

I am biased towards maximizing freedom. This includes choosing freedoms from things over freedom to inflict things. Ex: reedom from murder rather than freedom to murder.

I would like everyone to have this choice.
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Offline Naesala

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Re: Safety or Freedom? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42741.msg532936#msg532936
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2012, 08:08:49 am »
I'm strange, and likely one of few people here who will choose safety, but I actually would really enjoy having the bigger part of my life controlled by someone else to protect me. Cant really explain why.
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Offline Ilias22

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Re: Safety or Freedom? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42741.msg532980#msg532980
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2012, 12:24:45 pm »
Of course Freedom .Rigas Fereos told that 1 hour freedom is better than 40 years without freedom and i bieleve it!

Offline OldTrees

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Re: Safety or Freedom? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42741.msg533062#msg533062
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2012, 04:21:18 pm »
I'm strange, and likely one of few people here who will choose safety, but I actually would really enjoy having the bigger part of my life controlled by someone else to protect me. Cant really explain why.
I understand. This is why I think the freedom to make this decision should be universal. It is also the reason I think the top layer of society should be focused on freedom. It is easier for subsets of the population to be more secure than the normal population than it is for subsets to be more free than the normal population.
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Offline Onizuka

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Re: Safety or Freedom? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42741.msg533065#msg533065
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2012, 04:27:22 pm »
There can be no safety without freedom.
You're just as selfish as I am. You're just not as good at it yet.

Offline Pineapple

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Re: Safety or Freedom? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42741.msg533089#msg533089
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2012, 05:27:04 pm »
Freedom is not true freedom without the freedom to choose safety. False freedom has no merit.

So safety cake.

Offline choongmyoung

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Re: Safety or Freedom? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42741.msg533091#msg533091
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2012, 05:28:39 pm »
Just realized that "Safety or Freedom" is SoFre.

/

I'll take freedom, and now I can choose the safety.
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Offline Rutarete

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Re: Safety or Freedom? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42741.msg533122#msg533122
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2012, 06:39:17 pm »
Hmmm, a set of restrictions I'm comfortable in or a set of restrictions I desire... Freedom it is.
It is the greatest mystery of all...
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Offline ZephyrPhantom

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Re: Safety or Freedom? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42741.msg533126#msg533126
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2012, 06:45:21 pm »
It's possible to get both all five options or just defy the poll entirely :

Quote
Some safety can provide freedom, and some freedom can provide safety. But if you ultimately have to choose one, which would you choose?
0. Say "I don't care, because I don't know." Bake delicious Cake, eat it, and think for a bit. Thinking gives you the knowledge to care for the subject.

Quote
Freedom will make you live a shorter life, but a more fulfilling and comfortable one.
1a. Choose Freedom.
2a. Seeing as you're happy, use your newfound Freedom to create an environment of Safety that promotes Freedom.
Quote
Safety will make you live longer, but it will not make you as happy as freedom
3a. Rinse and repeat. Ignoring the limitation of human lifespan, those that choose Freedom can create Safety, which in turn allows them to promote Freedom in an environment where Safety can guard against potential mistakes. Both values ultimately build on each other.

Quote
Safety will make you live longer, but it will not make you as happy as freedom
1b. Choose Safety.
2b. Seeing as you're unhappy, use your extended lifespan to rebel against Safety and take risks, encouraging Freedom.
Quote
Freedom will make you live a shorter life, but a more fulfilling and comfortable one.
3b. Not in this case. Seeing as how Freedom has created danger/disorder/what have you, increasing focus on Safety is placed. Life becomes even less comfortable than it had been at step 1.
4b. Rinse and Repeat. Both values continuously clash with each other, with 'Safety' causing many to become unhappy and rebel to create 'Freedom', creating more dangers that Safety needs to 'protect' from.

Conclusion : Freedom is the more practical path. While you ultimately attain both all options after you 'pick one', the one you pick first impacts how you make the most of it.

Alternatively Alternatively:
1c. Pick a value that you feel is more important than Freedom or Safety. (E.g. Empathy)
2c. Use that value to ponder this question and determine whether your value is better to focus on. If not, see 1a or 1b.
3c. If your value is better to focus on, 'choose one' of that value, making your value beat out Freedom and Safety. (E.g. Empathy lets everyone care for everyone else, allowing universal safety but also gives universal freedom as people collaborate to try new things.)

Suggestion : Add the option 'I would choose something more practical than either.'
« Last Edit: August 14, 2012, 07:00:34 pm by Zblader »

Offline memimemi

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Re: Safety or Freedom? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42741.msg534017#msg534017
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2012, 05:09:59 am »
It's a false dichotomy: neither safety nor freedom precludes the other.

An analogous question would be: do you choose water or air?  To not choose both is to not live.  If you rephrased your query to probe what degree of safety, and what degree of freedom, one finds optimal, then you'd have a question.

Right now, it's a non-question: absolute freedom is impossible, as is absolute safety.  And that's without even having to precisely define either 'freedom' or 'safety.'

An analogous question would be: would you rather exhale, or inhale?  One cannot be in a constant state of exhalation, nor inhalation, without soon no longer being able to ask the question at all!

tl;hatenitpicking: Freedom, since it's the default state of Man.  Safety is what we call not having to deal with the consequences of living in a universe populated by free (unrestricted), autonomous entities.
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Offline eaglgenes101

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Re: Safety or Freedom? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42741.msg534019#msg534019
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2012, 05:17:01 am »
I choose half of each.
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