Religious Dilemma

[northcity4]

Let's say one day for all religions that 'God' or something super natural (since not all religions believe in a God) said there is no afterlife/heaven/nirvana/reincarnation/etc...is there any reason to still be religious at all? Have we just been religious because we just wanted to live longer? Is it possible to love God knowing there is a Heaven and still love God just for who he is? What if God asked you to do his will, but in the end you'll get the same ending as someone who doesn't do his will: death...life is over, sorry?  Your thoughts?

[Absol]

Might as well answer this.

I myself don't believe in the afterlife. After people die, they... kinda disappear. If any, i'd believe that i'll be thrown to Hell for all i've done (even though i'm not a sick criminal). Yeah, i'm that weird.
Regardless, i keep doing right things, not because i want to enter heaven, but because that's the right thing to do. As for being religious, i have a love/hate relationship with God, but let's just say i keep believing. In my own way.

Afterlife or not, God is God. Proven or not.

[northcity4]

So your saying for someone who is religious they should still follow God because being moral is that important? You do understand in the scenario I asked about the moral and immoral are getting the same ending?

[OldTrees]

Moral action: What one ought to do.
Immoral action: What one ought not do.

One ought do what one ought do.
One ought not do what one ought not do.

This really isn't that hard.

Morality (as a concept) was invented to describe the correct answer to "What should I do now?" This is precisely why there is so much disagreement about what actions are moral.

[bobby.dan.andrews]

That statement would indeed change a lot of things including religion itslef, cause it would deny everything we know about life and death religious concepts.

No, I would not change my my life cause of it, because I myself do not take actions on behalf God, my actions represents me alone.

[northcity4]

Old trees it does matter though. I am not talking about morals. I am simply asking is there a reason someone should do as God says even if your ending is the same as someone who doesn't do as God says?
Are people just following God for heaven or would they still follow God without Heaven? If yes, then what for?

When I run a race, why am I doing it? Let's assume I am running it for the trophy. "Hey guys, there is no reward at the end of the race."
When I run a race, why am I doing it? Let's assume I am running for the exercise. "Hey guys, God said you will burn no calories if you run this race."
When I run a race, why am I doing it? Let's assume I am running for the fun of it. "Hey guys, this race is going to be hard, not fun, and most likely a waste of your time."
When I run a race, why am I doing it? Let's assume I am running...What I am trying to say is it is not INSINCERE to do something for a goal, but some goals are insincere such as Heaven or fear of Hell.
Is there a reason to do as God says if there is no reward for it or no meaning to it? That in my mind is like you manager asking you to come to work, but you won't get paid. Only reason I can think of is if you respect God enough...but does that matter if in the end you'll die.

[Dm]

There is no afterlife.

"God", or any variation of divine being, can punish you during living life for doing bad things or something other than not his will (if you believe in that.)
"God", or any variation of divine being, can make your life better if you do good things or follow his will. (If you believe in that.)

(Probably not a light tone, but: Priests and the Church, whatever it may be, will find a way to make people believe and follow God, afterlife or not. The two stated above are just one of many.)

Or, in other words : People would believe in God for other things than Afterlife. After all, none of us know if there is an afterlife, believing in God or not. And if there is no afterlife, then none of us will be able to prove if believing in God / not following his will / following his will will bring happier times / horrible catastrophes to one's life.

[Absol]

Since you used an example, i'l also show you an example.
Why bother doing the right thing?
1. If it's to enter heaven, there's none.
2. If it's to help people, there are simply too many people to be helped.
3. If it's for self-satisfaction, there are many better ways.
4. If it's because God says so, God does not exist (maybe).
So the answer is because it's the right thing to do.

Religion is just a vessel, a container for the moral codes widely accepted. If you can get the moral regardless, you don't need any religion.

[northcity4]

Since you used an example, i'l also show you an example.
Why bother doing the right thing?
1. If it's to enter heaven, there's none.
2. If it's to help people, there are simply too many people to be helped.
3. If it's for self-satisfaction, there are many better ways.
4. If it's because God says so, God does not exist (maybe).
So the answer is because it's the right thing to do.

Religion is just a vessel, a container for the moral codes widely accepted. If you can get the moral regardless, you don't need any religion.

Absol and DM.

DM, please make sure you be careful what you state. To say there is no afterlife...this is philosophy you know right? (Or were you just repeating it to use in you example).

Absol, I am still not sure what you are saying. True there are tons of people that need help, but to say we can't help everyone isn't a reason to not help those around us.

Also, what is the point in doing the right thing? Why not do what humans naturally want to do which is usually the immoral.

There is no afterlife.

"God", or any variation of divine being, can punish you during living life for doing bad things or something other than not his will (if you believe in that.)
"God", or any variation of divine being, can make your life better if you do good things or follow his will. (If you believe in that.)

(Probably not a light tone, but: Priests and the Church, whatever it may be, will find a way to make people believe and follow God, afterlife or not. The two stated above are just one of many.)

Or, in other words : People would believe in God for other things than Afterlife. After all, none of us know if there is an afterlife, believing in God or not. And if there is no afterlife, then none of us will be able to prove if believing in God / not following his will / following his will will bring happier times / horrible catastrophes to one's life.

So, your saying people should still follow God just so they can live the best possible life with what they have? (Assuming there is no Hell either).

I remember that in my philosophy class. Is there a way to sincerely love God? Most love him out of fear of Hell or the reward of Heaven. But philosophers have discovered there is meaning to life when we love one another. Thus love is the meaning to life. The question is why? Why love people if there is no Heaven or Hell and let's assume God won't punish you for doing 'bad' things? In this case, I might as well do whatever I feel like.

[Dm]

Absol and DM.

DM, please make sure you be careful what you state. To say there is no afterlife...this is philosophy you know right? (Or were you just repeating it to use in you example). "MY EDIT : You told us there would be no after life. I was repeating it."

Absol, I am still not sure what you are saying. True there are tons of people that need help, but to say we can't help everyone isn't a reason to not help those around us.

Also, what is the point in doing the right thing? Why not do what humans naturally want to do which is usually the immoral.

There is no afterlife.

"God", or any variation of divine being, can punish you during living life for doing bad things or something other than not his will (if you believe in that.)
"God", or any variation of divine being, can make your life better if you do good things or follow his will. (If you believe in that.)

(Probably not a light tone, but: Priests and the Church, whatever it may be, will find a way to make people believe and follow God, afterlife or not. The two stated above are just one of many.)

Or, in other words : People would believe in God for other things than Afterlife. After all, none of us know if there is an afterlife, believing in God or not. And if there is no afterlife, then none of us will be able to prove if believing in God / not following his will / following his will will bring happier times / horrible catastrophes to one's life.

So, your saying people should still follow God just so they can live the best possible life with what they have? (Assuming there is no Hell either).

I remember that in my philosophy class. Is there a way to sincerely love God? Most love him out of fear of Hell or the reward of Heaven. But philosophers have discovered there is meaning to life when we love one another. Thus love is the meaning to life. The question is why? Why love people if there is no Heaven or Hell and let's assume God won't punish you for doing 'bad' things? In this case, I might as well do whatever I feel like.

Yes. With what they have or with what God "gives" them.
If God won't punish you for doing Bad things, then that God is no longer good and no longer should the "laws" (darn it, I forgot the name.. mandamments or some stuff) be followed. Therefore the whole religion is flawed and the God would be no more than a mere shell of what he used to be.
Why Not love people if there is no Heaven or Hell? Let's pretend I believe strongly in Heaven and Hell. If suddenly that was taken away from me, I would stop, think, and come to the conclusion that, if there is no Heaven or Hell, -I'm much better off- about loving and hating people. I can love them because I want to and not because I want to go to Heaven. I can Hate them, and I can hate them as much as I like, because there is no Hell. I'm free to feel both Love and Hatred, much more strongly than before, and not care about the risks - as long as there is no after life.-

Of course, I'm rambling. And this is of no use to us. The point at hand is, would people still believe in God, follow God? A lot of people wouldn't. Priests would still find a way to keep the "faithful" one coming in. Again, who guarantees us that there IS an afterlife right now? If religion declares that there is no afterlife but then declares you must still Adore God to live a better life and if you want your life not to be short lived, who can prove if that is true or not? People would still follow God. Out of simple love for what he's done (theorically) or of fear for what can happen to them.

[Absol]

Absol, I am still not sure what you are saying. True there are tons of people that need help, but to say we can't help everyone isn't a reason to not help those around us.

Also, what is the point in doing the right thing? Why not do what humans naturally want to do which is usually the immoral.

Indeed. Which is like saying no incentive for doing something right doesn't mean it don't have to be done.
Usually, but not always. And my point is "don't do that".

[kimham8a]

Old trees it does matter though. I am not talking about morals. I am simply asking is there a reason someone should do as God says even if your ending is the same as someone who doesn't do as God says?
Are people just following God for heaven or would they still follow God without Heaven? If yes, then what for?

When I run a race, why am I doing it? Let's assume I am running it for the trophy. "Hey guys, there is no reward at the end of the race."
When I run a race, why am I doing it? Let's assume I am running for the exercise. "Hey guys, God said you will burn no calories if you run this race."
When I run a race, why am I doing it? Let's assume I am running for the fun of it. "Hey guys, this race is going to be hard, not fun, and most likely a waste of your time."
When I run a race, why am I doing it? Let's assume I am running...What I am trying to say is it is not INSINCERE to do something for a goal, but some goals are insincere such as Heaven or fear of Hell.
Is there a reason to do as God says if there is no reward for it or no meaning to it? That in my mind is like you manager asking you to come to work, but you won't get paid. Only reason I can think of is if you respect God enough...but does that matter if in the end you'll die.

I'd guess doing the right thing is an evolutionary trait that's in most humans to some degree so others will respect them.
Also you can do the right thing for your own happiness. If you ask what you gain from good behaviour, what do you lose? What do you gain and what do you lose from bad behaviour? Good behaviour typically gains more in both intrinsic and extrinsic ways.