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suxerz

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Re: i wednor, can you raed tihs? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27904.msg356047#msg356047
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2011, 05:16:18 pm »
I don't normally post in the off-topic section, but this is quite interesting.  ;)
Here's my take on Rutarete's post.

Note: Terhe aer eintnintoal tpoys in het fgolinolw as a erfeernec to stohmeing (i'll evgi tsnih if rnyesecsa).
Note: There are intentional typos in the following as a reference to something (I'll give hints if necessary).
Quote
"I'm ghutnin btiswab 'cseua ti's bawbtis seaosn. Cmoe on uto, uoy wbiabt. I nwko oyu're trehe. Yuo cna't wnu, dna oyu nac't dihe rmfo me."
"I'm hunting wabbits 'cause it's wabbits season. Come on out you wabbit. I know you're there. You can't wun, and you can't hide from me".
Quote
Who am I?
Elmer Fudd? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elmer_Fudd)

Genuinous

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Re: i wednor, can you raed tihs? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27904.msg356050#msg356050
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2011, 05:18:35 pm »
grrrz... at suxers after writing a similarly structured answer  >:D

Offline Rutarete

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Re: i wednor, can you raed tihs? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27904.msg356057#msg356057
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2011, 05:25:24 pm »
I don't normally post in the off-topic section, but this is quite interesting.  ;)
Here's my take on Rutarete's post.

Note: Terhe aer eintnintoal tpoys in het fgolinolw as a erfeernec to stohmeing (i'll evgi tsnih if rnyesecsa).
Note: There are intentional typos in the following as a reference to something (I'll give hints if necessary).
Quote
"I'm ghutnin btiswab 'cseua ti's bawbtis seaosn. Cmoe on uto, uoy wbiabt. I nwko oyu're trehe. Yuo cna't wnu, dna oyu nac't dihe rmfo me."
"I'm hunting wabbits 'cause it's wabbits season. Come on out you wabbit. I know you're there. You can't run, and you can't hide from me".
Quote
Who am I?
Elmer Fudd? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elmer_Fudd)
Nice job. + rep to you.
Also, how long did it take you? Was it difficult at all?
It is the greatest mystery of all...
Rutarete: Roo tah reh teh
[22:50] <Jyi> meaning gets lost in translation... even in the same language.
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Offline tyranimTopic starter

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Re: i wednor, can you raed tihs? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27904.msg356139#msg356139
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2011, 07:23:01 pm »
yeah, i read an article a few years back that said (an approximation of words): "no matter how messed up the arangement of letters, as long as the beginning and ending letters are where they belong, it can be read easily by most people. people dont read the entire word letter for letter, the only read the beginning and end letters and order of the letters in between doesnt matter."
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Offline Nepycros

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Re: i wednor, can you raed tihs? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27904.msg356144#msg356144
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2011, 07:32:04 pm »
yeah, i read an article a few years back that said (an approximation of words): "no matter how messed up the arangement of letters, as long as the beginning and ending letters are where they belong, it can be read easily by most people. people dont read the entire word letter for letter, the only read the beginning and end letters and order of the letters in between doesnt matter."
The tcirk hree is, you hvae to be acpnnattiiig the sllepinpg cihcoe of the wetrir, oswitehre ylo'ul neevr fruige it out.
I rest my case.
Perception is the source of misunderstanding.

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Offline agentflare

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Re: i wednor, can you raed tihs? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27904.msg356150#msg356150
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2011, 07:43:03 pm »
yeah, i read an article a few years back that said (an approximation of words): "no matter how messed up the arangement of letters, as long as the beginning and ending letters are where they belong, it can be read easily by most people. people dont read the entire word letter for letter, the only read the beginning and end letters and order of the letters in between doesnt matter."
Not true. It only works for short words, and even still, there's a different reason why it works.

Consider this case:
Mkae.
Make, right? But since your mind automatically assumes that the first and last letters are correct, you only need to consider two possiblities to decipher it. Mkae and Make.

Now consider this:
Eakm.
Also Makebut you consider 22 more cases since the number of possible combinations is 4! (=24). A six letter word would be needed to have the same number of possibilities as a 4 letter one.

Amslot.
Was this easy to decipher?

Fairly easy. Now do:
Czbouaitlmse  :P
Customizable. Not so easy huh?

suxerz

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Re: i wednor, can you raed tihs? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27904.msg356159#msg356159
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2011, 08:01:43 pm »
I don't normally post in the off-topic section, but this is quite interesting.  ;)
Here's my take on Rutarete's post.

Note: Terhe aer eintnintoal tpoys in het fgolinolw as a erfeernec to stohmeing (i'll evgi tsnih if rnyesecsa).
Note: There are intentional typos in the following as a reference to something (I'll give hints if necessary).
Quote
"I'm ghutnin btiswab 'cseua ti's bawbtis seaosn. Cmoe on uto, uoy wbiabt. I nwko oyu're trehe. Yuo cna't wnu, dna oyu nac't dihe rmfo me."
"I'm hunting wabbits 'cause it's wabbits season. Come on out you wabbit. I know you're there. You can't run, and you can't hide from me".
Quote
Who am I?
Elmer Fudd? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elmer_Fudd)
Nice job. + rep to you.
Also, how long did it take you? Was it difficult at all?
Thanks. Not quite sure.. maybe around 5 mins. But the best part was finding the name of the character. :D


Aww.. no more puzzle..
Anyways, IMO it highly depends on how vast the vocabulary knowledge a person has. For example, I found that the "Amslot" is almost as difficult as "Czbouaitlmse".  :-X 

Offline Korugar

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Re: i wednor, can you raed tihs? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27904.msg356172#msg356172
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2011, 08:23:06 pm »
I don't normally post in the off-topic section, but this is quite interesting.  ;)
Here's my take on Rutarete's post.

Note: Terhe aer eintnintoal tpoys in het fgolinolw as a erfeernec to stohmeing (i'll evgi tsnih if rnyesecsa).
Note: There are intentional typos in the following as a reference to something (I'll give hints if necessary).
Quote
"I'm ghutnin btiswab 'cseua ti's bawbtis seaosn. Cmoe on uto, uoy wbiabt. I nwko oyu're trehe. Yuo cna't wnu, dna oyu nac't dihe rmfo me."
"I'm hunting wabbits 'cause it's wabbits season. Come on out you wabbit. I know you're there. You can't run, and you can't hide from me".
Quote
Who am I?
Elmer Fudd? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elmer_Fudd)
Nice job. + rep to you.
Also, how long did it take you? Was it difficult at all?
Thanks. Not quite sure.. maybe around 5 mins. But the best part was finding the name of the character. :D


Aww.. no more puzzle..
Anyways, IMO it highly depends on how vast the vocabulary knowledge a person has. For example, I found that the "Amslot" is almost as difficult as "Czbouaitlmse".  :-X
That's funny :) I got it in about thirty seconds, though like I said earlier, I'm usually pretty good at these.

Offline TimerClock14

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Re: i wednor, can you raed tihs? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27904.msg356195#msg356195
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2011, 09:14:58 pm »
The problem with understanding this topic is more than likely located between the chair and the monitor.
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Re: i wednor, can you raed tihs? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27904.msg356204#msg356204
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2011, 09:49:10 pm »
Compound words are much harder to decode than other words.

It's also more difficult if the word is really long...

ZergKing

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Re: i wednor, can you raed tihs? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27904.msg356243#msg356243
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2011, 11:15:50 pm »
The tcirk hree is, you hvae to be acpnnattiiig the slepinpg cihcoe of the wetrir, oswitehre ylo'ul neevr fruige it out.
you sellped slleping worng

Astrocyte

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Re: i wednor, can you raed tihs? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27904.msg357955#msg357955
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2011, 07:14:17 pm »
Ooh, a chance to swing my linguistics degree around!

People learn several things when they learn to read languages with alphabets or syllabaries (where each grapheme stands for more than one sound):
1) Learning that graphemes stand for sounds, and what sounds each one stands for
2) Learning what words look like
3) Learning how words are combined in print

When you're first learning to read (at any age, although it's significantly easier for children due to neuroplasticity), you depend on the letters to tell you what the word is. Try to think back to when you were really little and trying to read, or watch a newly-reading child or adult, or think about reading in a foreign language that you're just learning -- there's a lot of pointing, a lot of staring hard at one word at a time, a lot of effort.

As you see words over and over again, you begin to memorize the appearance of the most common words. Some literacy programs specifically train these so-called "sight words" in order to speed up the learning process. You also learn what words are likely to follow other words (and in most languages this also ties in with your knowledge of the spoken language).

So, if you see a three-letter word that starts with T at the beginning of a sentence, you know that it's highly likely to be "The" -- so you won't immediately stop to read and process the whole word, you'll check to see if it's "The" and stop to read it if it's not. You also know that "the" is almost guaranteed to be followed by a noun or adjective.

However, as the examples have shown, memorizing what words look like is not a guarantee that you'll be able to read fluently -- you still have to spend more time and attention on longer and less common words. For proficient readers, this process is largely unconscious and you probably won't even be aware of the effort unless you encounter tons of unusual words, unusual usage, or words you don't know. For less proficient readers, an unusual pattern or a rare or large word can almost stop them cold.

So it's not that the letters in the middle don't matter, it's that your brain is very efficient at something you've been doing for a long time! It predicts based on probability, then once it's analyzed enough features to confirm the identity of a word, it stops analyzing that word and moves on to the next. (Again, there's some good examples in this thread.) You might've seen articles saying that we don't read straight across each line of a block of text, but that our eyes jump around the sentence or even the paragraph -- and that's for the same reason. This is why you can often get a good amount of information from "skimming."

NOTE: The learning process is significantly different for ideographic written languages, such as Chinese. I believe research there is ongoing.

 

blarg: