good or evil: the same for everyone?

[Savage]

Isn't average=expected in this case?

According to your source, like rolling a die, the average=the value that will come up the most.

[OldTrees]

Isn't average=expected in this case?

According to your source, like rolling a die, the average=the value that will come up the most.

Yes and No. Different equation, same value.
Average is the sum of the actual results times their frequency for a number of trials divided by the number of trials.
Expected is the sum of the possible results times their frequency for all possible results from 1 trial.

PS: The average of a 6 sided die (3.5) is not the value that will come up the most. Coming up the most is called the "mode" rather than the "mean" or "average".

[Acab Jef]

Good or evil? Who decides Which is what? Do you?

These opposits have a different meaning in other cultures. But still, there are similarities that are universial. (killing someone is not done)
why is this the same for every culture (i'm not counting the crackheads)? Is it imprinted in our genes? are we being moniterd by some greater force?
value's like this are forged by society, but still some of them are similar with other societies, Why is that?

I did not read al the comments, so i am very sorry if someone else said the same thing.

what you are saying here about killing is not correct(or i do not agree with). there are different cultures with different meanings, but some cultures still have death as a punishment. isn't death as a punishment the same as killing someone? or euthanasia?  and if you look at some people that are in the mafia where killing is quite a common thing, they think different as the rest. and there are hitmans for who the killing is just his/hers job?

you say crackheads, i dont know which culture of people you are talking about, but they are a culture too. they (probably) live all over the world and are a part of the society.

the topic good or evil is quite interesting, but i dont know if you look at a culture, wich has their own meaning about good and evil, does evil know they are evil? if someones thoughts are different then others, does that mean there is something evil in one of them?
so i think the feeling about good and evil is personaly, the things that are good and bad is learned to you by your parrents and law in your culture.

[Savage]

I think there has to be absolute morals (some at least) though. Cultures cannot decide what is right and wrong for everything because if they do, problems occur (relativism is basically what you talked about).

a) guys like Hitler can justify what they did and if America doesn't like it, who's to say who's wrong?

b) cultures would collapse if certain morals are not kept. Take murder for instance: if cultures allow murder, then the country will fall apart and the culture it self will disappear.

[Acab Jef]

I think there has to be absolute morals (some at least) though. Cultures cannot decide what is right and wrong for everything because if they do, problems occur (relativism is basically what you talked about).

a) guys like Hitler can justify what they did and if America doesn't like it, who's to say who's wrong?

b) cultures would collapse if certain morals are not kept. Take murder for instance: if cultures allow murder, then the country will fall apart and the culture it self will disappear.

but germany didnt think hitler was wrong in 1940-1945, they though they were good, and what they were doing is good. thats the culture wich decided what is good and evil.
(I AM NOT SAYING ALL THE GERMANS AGREE WITH HITLER(EVEN IN 1940-1945))

[OldTrees]

@Acab Jef
You are arguing for moral relativism. Savage is arguing for objective morality and used Nazi Germany to point out a potential problem with moral relativism.

The question he asked was whether you are ok with morality being flexible enough to consider genocide the moral thing to do if the culture believes it is?

(Similar disclaimer: Not all Germans were Nazis)

[Acab Jef]

then the answer on the topic "good or evil: the same for everyone?" is answered: no it is not. other morals/means in each group/culture/country, of course there are some morals/means equal in some groups/cultures/countrys.

[OldTrees]

then the answer on the topic "good or evil: the same for everyone?" is answered: no it is not. other morals/means in each group/culture/country, of course there are some morals/means equal in some groups/cultures/countrys.

The premise in the opening post was that people sometimes, but not always, disagree about morality. (observed statement of opinions)
The question is what is the nature of morality. (question about truth)

[Savage]

The argument with @Acab is that there must be at least 1 absolute moral truth if we deem Hitler's actions immoral. Do notice: many of the people who thought that what they were doing was okay later regretted their actions. Now, I can talk about 'not right thinking' later, but that does say something the fact that when people are 'sober' and consider all possibilities, it seems there are certain morals everyone agrees on.

The other problem with moral relativism is the conscience.

[OldTrees]

The other problem with moral relativism is the conscience.

Not a good argument. Moral relativism uses cultural relativism as (fallacious*) evidence. The conscience also exhibits cultural relativism.

*The argument tries to derive an "ought" from an "is" and does not succeed.

[EmeraldTiger]

My thoughts on what is Good:
     Good is acts of kindness, thoughts or actions by a person or group that creates a sense of appreciation from another person or group. It is doing things that benefit someone else, without the expectation of something in return. Good is not doing actions that cause fear and panic to another person(s).

My thoughts on what is Evil:
     Evil is a perception of actions brought on by a state of fear. It is thoughts or actions that cause harm, for the purpose of causing harm. There are things humans perceive to be evil , but are not. Selfish actions may be viewed as evil, but in the mind of the person(s) performing such action it maybe a sense of survival.

That is all for now.

[Savage]

The other problem with moral relativism is the conscience.

Not a good argument. Moral relativism uses cultural relativism as (fallacious*) evidence. The conscience also exhibits cultural relativism.

*The argument tries to derive an "ought" from an "is" and does not succeed.

So, you don't agree there is an inherent form of morality? Even people who grow up in a society where they are taught to...I don't know, abuse people know it is wrong still.

Real example: people that killed Jews during the concentration camps. The guards minds were heavily manipulated and there was fear (I think they knew what they were doing but were too scared to go against hitler), but we do have reports from the people who put Jews in ovens. They actually didn't like what they did and knew it was wrong, it was just that the definition of what a Jew was changed. They were taught Jews were no humans and the world would actually be better off if they were dead. Again though, if they had the courage to step up, I believe they would stopped their actions even though they grew up in a culture where they were taught this was okay.

Please note I am referring to morals concerning life and death. Morals on things such as racism are a much more complex situation.