Are fetus' humans?

[northcity4]

Hi guys, this is an extension question from the topic about 'is abortion okay.' Seems like everyone there agreed it doesn't matter so much about women's rights, but more importantly if the fetus inside a woman is human or not, in general. I didn't want the topic getting too off topic (hope you understood that  ) so I made a new thread for right here.

So can anyone clarify a solid definition of what a 'human' is?

Some responses:
1) sentient or not?
2) can it differentiate between morals or not?
3) religious people say it's because god created, therefore it is human.

To be clear, why or why not is a fetus human or not? There can be other more responses possible than just the three I posted. Please respond as I am interested in hearing both sides of the argument and formulate my own opinion as well. Thanks.

Some other thoughts while discussing:

1) In the U.S. it's legal to get abortions, not considered murder in the government's eyes, but if  kill a pregnant woman, it considered double homicide.
2) Late term abortion: you can kill a baby legally if it is 7 or more inches from being born...does 7 inches really determine the humanity of a baby?
3) Stuff a 1yr old baby (assuming its mental capacity is the same as a fetus) back into a woman, does that make it non-human now? (extreme, but again just an idea to help you think).

[OldTrees]

1) What do you mean by human?

Do you mean a member of the species Homo Sapiens?
If so then yes the fetal stage of the species is the species. However belonging to the species Homo Sapiens is not inherently morally significant unless one of the traits of Homo Sapiens is morally significant.

2) If you did not mean a member of the species Homo Sapiens, then what word did you mean instead?
Living being?
Person?
Moral Agent?
Sentient being?
Being capable of being immorally killed?

[ARTHANASIOS]

For me, an chicken's egg is still a chicken, despite the fact it is still just a single cell. So, according to my opinion, fetus is a human being no matter in what evolution stage is being on.

[Jenkar]

Physically : Yes. A fetus shares the same dna as the human animal and is an organism (a parasitic one, but one nonetheless). Hence, it is a human.
Mentally : no. There is a lot of mental development that happens outside the womb.
Morally : once again, no (this is very subjective). I'm of the opinion that You're only a being once you start making your own moral choices. Which is rarely the case for any body, really.

[ARTHANASIOS]

Physically : Yes. A fetus shares the same dna as the human animal and is an organism (a parasitic one, but one nonetheless). Hence, it is a human.
Mentally : no. There is a lot of mental development that happens outside the womb.
Morally : once again, no (this is very subjective). I'm of the opinion that You're only a being once you start making your own moral choices. Which is rarely the case for any body, really.

So, an old person with Alzheimer at the later stages of the disease is not a human anymore... A child with Down syndrome is sub-human due to lacking the ability of making moral choices as well as a normal child... Furthermore, people with mental disability of 95% or something can't make mental decisions at all, so they are not human at all, right?
I think a definition is needed here, Jenkar, in order to prevent justification of racistic behaviour towards people with mental disabilities of any short.

[Jenkar]

I disagree.
However, consider that poor mental ability does not mean poor moral ability.

[OldTrees]

-snip-
Mentally : no. -snip-
Morally : once again, no (this is very subjective). -snip-

What do you mean by mentally and morally human?
Specifically could you define those terms without using the word human or a synonym?

[Jenkar]

Mentally : have enough knowledge to participate by itself in society.
Morally : have the capacity to distinguish "good" from "evil", after a personnal reflexion. This does not imply that these values need to be the same as the society .

[OldTrees]

Mentally : have enough knowledge to participate by itself in society.
Morally : have the capacity to distinguish "good" from "evil", after a personnal reflexion. This does not imply that these values need to be the same as the society .

So by mentally human you meant Socially Competent and by morally human you meant Moral Agency.
I do not think either of these topics should be obscured by using the word "Human".

PS: Yes I agree human fetuses are neither Socially Competent nor Moral Agents.

[Elbirn]

I am of the opinion that a bundle of cells is considered living when it has sentience. "Cogito ergo sum"

However I do not see what morals have to do with sentience. I may have missed something, however.

[Jenkar]

Depends what you mean by sentience.

[Elbirn]

A person is capable of thought. This includes problem solving, making deductions, even creative expression.
A monkey is capable of thought. It has memories, can utilize tools to acquire food, etc.

The skin cells on my elbow are not capable of thought. They are technically a living organism I suppose, but they are mindless.