A truly sadistic choice

[OldTrees]

I think you do.
So if I understand correctly, then you agree with the following:

For progress in general, change in general is required.
For change in general, suffering is required.

Then I agree with:

Some progress can be made without suffering.
Some change can be made without suffering.

Agreed.
Holistic progress and revolutionary change might be better terms for the concepts you were using.

[Tymalous]

I think you do.
So if I understand correctly, then you agree with the following:

For progress in general, change in general is required.
For change in general, suffering is required.

Then I agree with:

Some progress can be made without suffering.
Some change can be made without suffering.

Agreed.
Holistic progress and revolutionary change might be better terms for the concepts you were using.

Yes, you are right, they would suit better. Thank you. Good that we came to an agreement .
So, just curious, what would you choose? I mean, you probably have answered it, but I don't feel like digging through 6 pages...

[OldTrees]

I think you do.
So if I understand correctly, then you agree with the following:

For progress in general, change in general is required.
For change in general, suffering is required.

Then I agree with:

Some progress can be made without suffering.
Some change can be made without suffering.

Agreed.
Holistic progress and revolutionary change might be better terms for the concepts you were using.

Yes, you are right, they would suit better. Thank you. Good that we came to an agreement .
So, just curious, what would you choose? I mean, you probably have answered it, but I don't feel like digging through 6 pages...

The entity cannot establish their credibility as a result of their offer. As such the decision devolves into Nightmare or no Nightmare. The nightmare is undesirable so the rational option is to reject the offer.

[Feuerhose]

ah come on. the rule is you must choose. you accepted it by writing here

[OldTrees]

ah come on. the rule is you must choose. you accepted it by writing here

The Offer is option A. Rejecting the offer is option B.
Option A is irrational. Option B is rational.
Everyone ought to chose option B.

[Tymalous]

ah come on. the rule is you must choose. you accepted it by writing here

The Offer is option A. Rejecting the offer is option B.
Option A is irrational. Option B is rational.
Everyone ought to choose option B.

No. The entity forces you to either choose suffering for yourself, or a sure death. There is no offer.
The question is whether you want to sacrifice yourself for the happiness of the whole world, or whether you want to sacrifice yourself for the progress of the world.

I can imagine that some people will think that happiness > progress.

[Feuerhose]

ah come on. the rule is you must choose. you accepted it by writing here

The Offer is option A. Rejecting the offer is option B.
Option A is irrational. Option B is rational.
Everyone ought to choose option B.

No. The entity forces you to either choose suffering for yourself, or a sure death. There is no offer.
The question is whether you want to sacrifice yourself for the happiness of the whole world, or whether you want to sacrifice yourself for the progress of the world.

I can imagine that some people will think that happiness > progress.

I wont say that. The key in this dilemma is the relation between you and "the others". Not the quality or quantity of progress. Suffering for the rest of the world or suffering through them. Are you a hero or a coward. This is an dilemma on a moral level. Not a dilemma on a spiritual level and shure none for me, haha. this could change when you (or I) would have chidren supposedly. Big Topic. Gratz to this thread, i like it.

[Tymalous]

ah come on. the rule is you must choose. you accepted it by writing here

The Offer is option A. Rejecting the offer is option B.
Option A is irrational. Option B is rational.
Everyone ought to choose option B.

No. The entity forces you to either choose suffering for yourself, or a sure death. There is no offer.
The question is whether you want to sacrifice yourself for the happiness of the whole world, or whether you want to sacrifice yourself for the progress of the world.

I can imagine that some people will think that happiness > progress.

I wont say that. The key in this dilemma is the relation between you and "the others". Not the quality or quantity of progress. Suffering for the rest of the world or suffering through them. Are you a hero or a coward. This is an dilemma on a moral level. Not a dilemma on a spiritual level and shure none for me, haha. this could change when you (or I) would have chidren supposedly. Big Topic. Gratz to this thread, i like it.

If you only look at the question like you do, it is of course simple. You or society. You do know that choosing B leads to almost sure death right? You would be hunted by the whole world.
Read the discussion before your posts and it is more complicated than it looks.
I have to agree though, this is a interesting topic indeed.

[OldTrees]

ah come on. the rule is you must choose. you accepted it by writing here

The Offer is option A. Rejecting the offer is option B.
Option A is irrational. Option B is rational.
Everyone ought to choose option B.

No. The entity forces you to either choose suffering for yourself, or a sure death. There is no offer.
The question is whether you want to sacrifice yourself for the happiness of the whole world, or whether you want to sacrifice yourself for the progress of the world.

I can imagine that some people will think that happiness > progress.

Thanks for the spelling correction.

The entity offers you a deal/offer or you can reject the deal and suffer those consequences.

I do not see it as a choice between happiness and progress.
I see it, due to the lack of credibility, as a choice between a Nightmare or everyone knowing you rejected the deal. Since I would not kill anyone that chose B I would expect not to die if I chose B.

Even if it were a choice between the Nightmare and death I would chose death. This decision is a bit less obvious and depends on whether you view life as always better than death or that death can be preferable to some form of existence.

[Feuerhose]

ah come on. the rule is you must choose. you accepted it by writing here

The Offer is option A. Rejecting the offer is option B.
Option A is irrational. Option B is rational.
Everyone ought to choose option B.

No. The entity forces you to either choose suffering for yourself, or a sure death. There is no offer.
The question is whether you want to sacrifice yourself for the happiness of the whole world, or whether you want to sacrifice yourself for the progress of the world.

I can imagine that some people will think that happiness > progress.

I wont say that. The key in this dilemma is the relation between you and "the others". Not the quality or quantity of progress. Suffering for the rest of the world or suffering through them. Are you a hero or a coward. This is an dilemma on a moral level. Not a dilemma on a spiritual level and shure none for me, haha. this could change when you (or I) would have chidren supposedly. Big Topic. Gratz to this thread, i like it.

If you only look at the question like you do, it is of course simple. You or society. You do know that choosing B leads to almost sure death right? You would be hunted by the whole world.
Read the discussion before your posts and it is more complicated than it looks.
I have to agree though, this is a interesting topic indeed.

No. I´d go with oldtrees. Its not shure you die. They probably make you suffer, the longer the bitter. So same like in A but different aproach.

[Feuerhose]

And: Yes. Im aware of the complexity of your discussion. I just think that the initial idea had a much simpler structure.

[Tymalous]

ah come on. the rule is you must choose. you accepted it by writing here

The Offer is option A. Rejecting the offer is option B.
Option A is irrational. Option B is rational.
Everyone ought to choose option B.

No. The entity forces you to either choose suffering for yourself, or a sure death. There is no offer.
The question is whether you want to sacrifice yourself for the happiness of the whole world, or whether you want to sacrifice yourself for the progress of the world.

I can imagine that some people will think that happiness > progress.

I wont say that. The key in this dilemma is the relation between you and "the others". Not the quality or quantity of progress. Suffering for the rest of the world or suffering through them. Are you a hero or a coward. This is an dilemma on a moral level. Not a dilemma on a spiritual level and shure none for me, haha. this could change when you (or I) would have chidren supposedly. Big Topic. Gratz to this thread, i like it.

If you only look at the question like you do, it is of course simple. You or society. You do know that choosing B leads to almost sure death right? You would be hunted by the whole world.
Read the discussion before your posts and it is more complicated than it looks.
I have to agree though, this is a interesting topic indeed.

No. I´d go with oldtrees. Its not shure you die. They probably make you suffer, the longer the bitter. So same like in A but different aproach.

But in the end you will die. With A you won't die but you will suffer in your worst nightmare.