Post by: zanzarino on July 29, 2013, 06:06:57 am
Phase 1: The bestiary
To populate a map I'll need NPC's, create and submit your NPC here:
http://www.elementsthegame.com/bestiary.html
The beta version of something that we can use to create NPC's, they will vary in level between 0 and 120. In the interface you get to pick an image, a name, a description, a deck and some stats for the NPC that you would like to see in the game.
Soon we will also be able to test the current NPC and give them thumbs up or down.
Phase 2: Test the new NPC's
A *very* beta 1.4 is now in the trainer so that we can start testing the new NPC's.
The database is going to start a coarse tuning of the NPC level based on won/lost ratios, please try to be fair, refrain from rating your own deck and try not to use the trainer quanta boost while testing those new decks.
Phase 3: Create a World
In progress:
http://www.elementsthegame.com/development.html
FAQ:
Can we have something faster to set HP?
Just type whatever number you like where is says hp:____ just underneath the HP bar.
Does this replace arena?
Even though i recycled the arena interface to save time, this has nothing to do with the arena and nothing will change with the arena; but I would like to see the your arena decks wondering on the map in a level appropriate zone.
900 hp, isn't that too much?
The NPC creator is just a sandbox tool, it is not part of the game, we are going to need all kind of NPC's, from level 0 critters with 5 HP that give next to nothing as a reward to rare-elite NPC that are hard to find and very hard to kill.
If a "pinata" NPC with 900hp and no defenses is fun to hit with huge numbers... why not add it to the game? That is why I removed most restrictions.
What is going to happen to the old AI0,1,2,3,4 and FG?
They can all stay and find a new home on the map, they just need a name (if they do not have one yet) and a description, the old FG's can even get their own zones as local bosses, surrounded by smaller minions.
In general I would like to keep:
AI0 like deck in level 0-10 areas
AI1 like deck in level 10-20 areas
AI2 like deck in level 20-30 areas
AI3 like deck in level 30-40 areas
AI4 like deck in level 40-50 areas
FG like decks in level 50-70 areas
Higher level areas will come as well.
How does the level work on the map?
With the map system the players are not going to get a random opponent anymore, they can go to a specific area on the map, say, for instance, an area with level 20"ish" darkness NPC's and adjust their deck to kill efficiently those decks. Elite NPC will also randomly appear and will be much harder to kill, but will give better rewards (of course). The map is also going to allow events, maybe next week an invasion of rustlers following the lead of a leaf dragon boss, maybe with a quest asking you to save the world of Elements from their leafy menace.
How about the kongregate badges?
The old AI's will still be around in some form, badges will be adjusted accordingly.
Post by: dragonsdemesne on July 29, 2013, 06:07:33 am
I love you, Zanz :) Glad to see you're still around and active! Looking forward to your new additions.
Post by: Rutarete on July 29, 2013, 06:09:13 am
This should renew my interest :D
Edit: It seems that max hp is 900 while the bar is labeled 1000
Post by: BeefSupreme on July 29, 2013, 06:11:17 am
And I'll get to help out :)
Post by: Drake_XIV on July 29, 2013, 06:17:06 am
Post by: Vineroz on July 29, 2013, 06:27:24 am
Post by: omegareaper7 on July 29, 2013, 06:30:30 am
Regardless though, this update sounds like some fun! Look forward to it!
Post by: Theboss1248 on July 29, 2013, 06:34:12 am
I feel greedy for saying this, but I can't be the only one hoping for new cards as well, right?
Regardless though, this update sounds like some fun! Look forward to it!
I'm sure with a larger patch as this is we may be in for a few new cards.
Post by: dawn to dusk on July 29, 2013, 06:35:02 am
Post by: Hawkeye0440 on July 29, 2013, 06:37:55 am
Post by: Naesala on July 29, 2013, 06:38:30 am
Post by: BeefSupreme on July 29, 2013, 06:46:36 am
I feel greedy for saying this, but I can't be the only one hoping for new cards as well, right?
In Elements 1.4 . . . I am going to divide the task in several phases where the community can participate.I would assume there will be new cards in time.
Post by: Leodip on July 29, 2013, 08:46:51 am
Post by: Marsu on July 29, 2013, 09:28:00 am
(I really did check the date)
Also, I called it! Yeeeeeah!
And thanks Zanz! Big thanks!
/edit:
I feel greedy for saying this, but I can't be the only one hoping for new cards as well, right?
Quoted for truth. Doesn't have to be as soon as this huge 1.4 changes go live, but it would be nice if we could hear a comment on that. : o
Post by: Luminous on July 29, 2013, 10:01:12 am
Post by: Calindu on July 29, 2013, 10:16:24 am
1000 hp seems a little too much, but if you want to keep it like that, do you plan to increase the max hp for player's HP and/or max attack/hp for creatures?
Will there be a variety of NPCs for each level or just one for each?
Will we know the deck in advance or it will be like arena?
Seems like as NPC you can put less than 30 cards in the deck, will this also be available for us, players?
You put a level for each deck we can play with? You plan to give players certain advantages while playing against NPCs for reaching a higher level as well?
Post by: RavingRabbid on July 29, 2013, 10:21:04 am
Make the hp bar draggable?
Post by: ddevans96 on July 29, 2013, 10:27:02 am
Make the hp bar draggable?
This. Until then, though, you can tab to the the plus or minus for it, and press enter...goes so much faster.
The graphics for levels between 80-99, and then 100+, though...so much awesome.
Post by: Annele on July 29, 2013, 10:29:40 am
Remove all doesn't remove the first 5 cards.
And you can't click to remove the first 5 cards either. It also adds cards if you click 'remove all'. I clicked 'remove all', my 5 vamps stayed where they were, but I got 6 in my storage.
Nevertheless,THISLOOKSVERYAWESOMEOHMYFALSEGOD.
Post by: Leodip on July 29, 2013, 10:37:34 am
Remove all doesn't remove the first 5 cards.Definitely.
Make the hp bar draggable?
A question, will the "Quantum" mark be available for players, too? Because from the metamorphosis button (in the Bestiary) it isn't available as a choice, the only way to play it is choosing a card from "other".
Another one, what does picking an icon do? Aside from choosing the mark (which you can freely change, though), you aren't restricted on using the card in the icon.
Last one, are you effectively dropping the AI0-5 or are you moving them to the Bestiary? If you're removing them, let, at least, the AI0 and FG stay. Remove the numeration and call them respectively "Trainer" and "False God". This way a new player still has a "tutorial" on how to start, and an advanced player has those Gods to challenge.
Post by: Annele on July 29, 2013, 11:03:37 am
I don't know if you meant for there to be one or not, but there is.
Its symbol is 8pi. If 8pi is put into the "deck import", it becomes an Aether pend with Time and Darkness marks. (Even when my original mark stayed Fire.)
If you test against is, you get a random deck no matter what was in your deck before. (I made a deck with the Quantum mark and all other cards, tested against if and got a light deck.)
Hop this can help you, Zanz.
Post by: Acsabi44 on July 29, 2013, 12:44:33 pm
Here are sme remarks/questions/feedback that came to mind after testing it a bit:
- The possibility to test our creations vs. a set of predefined decks ("Vanilla", "Stormy", "Pdial" etc.) is very nice. Also, I think that the code could be used to implement a customizable in-game deck library?
- The graphic representation of the NPC getting stronger is brilliant, I love it :)
- What is the meaning of the current score and the estimated level that is displayed after the games? How is the estimated level calculated?
- What is the meaning of the numbers on the back of the AI cards? I presume it stands for the individual cards (for example 300 being the gravity pillar), but what is the purpose of them?
- How would like to have the distribution of the various power level of the NPCs? Should it be linear (as in, a roughly equal amount of NPCs of every level) or according to the Power law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_law)? (which would mean lots of weaker NPCs, and only a handful of really strong ones)
- The "mark multiplier" is buggy. If I choose a different mark than the element of the NPC (for example, I choose Chrysaora as my NPC, then choose a death mark for the deck) then the multiplier automatically sets for x5 instead of what I set previously.
- The HP increasing is tedious when it comes to high numbers. Please make it draggable or otherwise easier to input high numbers
Post by: Atom_heart on July 29, 2013, 12:56:47 pm
Last one, are you effectively dropping the AI0-5 or are you moving them to the Bestiary? If you're removing them, let, at least, the AI0 and FG stay.
If the AI system were to be removed completely, it would be nice if the FGs were turned into NPCs. Cause, you know, we would miss them.
Except for Hermes, you can get rid of him :P
Post by: artimies7 on July 29, 2013, 01:30:49 pm
Also, you might see a couple different variations on Dragtosis showing up as soon as submissions are taken. I hope one of them gets through!
Post by: Chapuz on July 29, 2013, 01:33:46 pm
Post by: Blacksmith on July 29, 2013, 01:54:08 pm
Ok, some questions:
900 hp seems a little too much, but if you want to keep it like that, do you plan to increase the max hp for player's HP and/or max attack/hp for creatures?
Will there be a variety of NPCs for each level or just one for each?
Will we know the deck in advance or it will be like arena?
Seems like as NPC you can put less than 30 cards in the deck, will this also be available for us, players?
You put a level for each deck we can play with? You plan to give players certain advantages while playing against NPCs for reaching a higher level as well?
O and I like your choice of immo rush!
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/game-suggestions-and-feedback/elements-the-game-v2-0-majofa's-changes/
@zanzarino:
Making the players choose to play against 1 specific deck is a bad idea, in my whole opinion. there will be a perfect counter for each one and they will become much more farmable than the current levels.
It would be fine if NPCs give you a random opponent between several different decks, like the current AIs.
If you enter a zone and kill all of the antlions because you want to farm them, they will all be dead and then you'll have to wait for them to respawn. In the while an angry 900hp elite Antlion will run after you trying to get revenge for your massacre.
Official answer: the map will have an AI attached to the mob spawning. Sitting in an area for farming will do no good.
The reward is going to be based on the NPC level, I'll have to refine the number of spins etc. later.
The electrum reward is probably going to be
Reward = 1 + NPClevel*2
Triple the reward if elite, double if EM. Master an elite to get X6.
This is pretty much what the arena settled upon: level 10 will give 21 :electrum, level 50 101 :electrum
The money you lose if defeated should be reward/2 (lose to a level 10 = get poached for 10 :electrum)
Hardcore mode could be something to experiment with: if you lose, you lose one of the cards in your deck. (Please refrain from freaking about about nypmhs yet; there are solutions and we will get there if this is something worth exploring. E.g. your card turns into a broken card if rare, and can be fixed by paying an adequate (read expensive) amount of :electrum)
The spin reward will probably be something like
level 0-10: 1 spin
level 10-20: 2 spins
level 20-30: 3 spins (as in current level 3)
level 30-40: 5 spins
level 40-50: 1 upped spin
level 50-60: 2 upped spins
level 60-70: 3 upped spins (as in current FG)
level 70-80: 4 upped spins
level 80-90: 5 upped spins
level 90 and above: 5 upped spins + 1 special spin for rares
All of the above to be reviewed, balanced, reviewed again, then fine tuned, polished and released in the game.
Decks with bad rating gets removed
Zanz also said don't pay attention to level right now, that will come, right now the levels are totally off, as you can make a level 0 and have it show up as level 80 and i've fought some level 20s that were harder than some level 70s...
Added rating to the stats displayed in the trainer. If you want to resubmit a deck with improved description etc. resubmit the same deck adding a v2 after the name.
Can someone explain me the rating system of the NPC?
If my deck has 4 Wins and 0 Losses and 50% positive rating, does that mean that 2 of 4 didn't vote and 2 thumbed me up?
Because if two of them did downvote I would be at 0%, right?
......the latter is correct. You had 3 upvotes and 1 downvote. 2 upvotes, 2 no-votes would be 100%.
Arena will remain unchanged.
Note: you get one vote per area, killing 20 times the same mob and giving it 20 thumbs up still counts as 1 thumb up.
quote from Zanz "More cards will come, have faith."
Marks will be upgradable several times when you have the required reputation with an element (Mark I to Mark X).
Each upgrade at the moment gives 5 extra HP's (to be balanced).
Upgraded marks can not be used in pvp.
XxXXXXXxXXXXXxXXXXXxXXXXXxXXXXXxXXXXXxXXXXXxXXXXXxXXXXXxXXXXXxXXXXXxXXXXXxXXXXXxXXXXXxXXXXXxXXXX
SUMMARIZE OF THE FIRST 56 PAGES
I have not added bugs into this. Please people think before you make post it took me (145minutes) to make this and I hope it won't be wasted.
Special message to Zanz.
Card ideas and art section (CIA
The Cia section is renewing itself so you know which cards to pick. I believe that a few new cards could be just as important as the whole new patch!.
I'm sure you would get lots of good art for free if you just asked for it! Say yes to this and I'll start a thread.
More foil card would be fun but not high priority. http://elementscommunity.org/forum/card-art/new-foil-card(s)/
Buffs and nerfs.
I know that it's often a bad thing to nerf something after it's been realsed , that it's better to post something and then buff it. Either way Dim shields needs a nerf now.
A card is allowed to change meta for a while but dim has changed meta from the very beginning forcing most decks to include extra cards. Dim shield is not highly overpowered but the way is function is incredibly boring unlike for example Super nova. After 56 pages in the nerf section more than this whole thread the conclusion is that dim needs to be nerfed to last 2 turns and no other change! no cost decrease nothing. This is a must!!!
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/nerf-this-card!/dimensional-shield/
Please make nymphs and marks un sell able. I don't know how many people who has sold nymphs/marks and later regret it.
I got some contacts on kongregate eventually I'll be able to change the new badges and also add new patch on the front page like this:
Changes regarding Map and game
You should decrease the lv of all npc's with 10 lv's right away. This way things will balanced our quicker. As it is now I can beat lv 40 decks with a normal un upped bow.
Original idea Marsu "I'd wish to go a step further though: Would it be possible to have an area where those random NPC's would be 'hidden' until you start the game? For example, you go there and only see a '???' as NPC name. I am bringing this topic of randomness up because I really think most advanced player would wish for such an option from time to time."
Adding a button for facing a random npc. Of experience I know these buttons are highly addictive.
Make the start decks just a little bit better. I've seen hundreds of post saying. It takes forever to reach 500 score with my ai2 deck. If the deck wore just a bit better that would be great for the noobs. I with help of community could arrange this. This is less important.
Idea originally from colorless green. A leader board for highest rated npc decks would be cool. Not important.
Changes regarding you
I just want you to know that 1 simply silly post like. I'm working on a thing right now I won't be able to do much for a year. can mean so extremely much to community. Humans has an ability to expect the worst scenarios when nothing else is said and many here including myself has or do believe that you don't care about this game at all. Even if you got a so called "bad reason" it's still better to say it than not to say it. At least it shows that you care a little. I'd like to add that I still have fate in you.
The Cia section is renewing itself so you know which cards to pick. I believe that a few new cards could be just as important as the whole new patch!.
I'm sure you would get lots of good art for free if you just asked for it! Say yes to this and I'll start a thread.
More foil card would be fun but not high priority. http://elementscommunity.org/forum/card-art/new-foil-card(s)/
Buffs and nerfs.
I know that it's often a bad thing to nerf something after it's been realsed , that it's better to post something and then buff it. Either way Dim shields needs a nerf now.
A card is allowed to change meta for a while but dim has changed meta from the very beginning forcing most decks to include extra cards. Dim shield is not highly overpowered but the way is function is incredibly boring unlike for example Super nova. After 56 pages in the nerf section more than this whole thread the conclusion is that dim needs to be nerfed to last 2 turns and no other change! no cost decrease nothing. This is a must!!!
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/nerf-this-card!/dimensional-shield/
Please make nymphs and marks un sell able. I don't know how many people who has sold nymphs/marks and later regret it.
I got some contacts on kongregate eventually I'll be able to change the new badges and also add new patch on the front page like this:
(http://i.imgur.com/mI2TXMd.png)
just say so and I'll try to fix these things for you.Changes regarding Map and game
You should decrease the lv of all npc's with 10 lv's right away. This way things will balanced our quicker. As it is now I can beat lv 40 decks with a normal un upped bow.
Original idea Marsu "I'd wish to go a step further though: Would it be possible to have an area where those random NPC's would be 'hidden' until you start the game? For example, you go there and only see a '???' as NPC name. I am bringing this topic of randomness up because I really think most advanced player would wish for such an option from time to time."
Adding a button for facing a random npc. Of experience I know these buttons are highly addictive.
Make the start decks just a little bit better. I've seen hundreds of post saying. It takes forever to reach 500 score with my ai2 deck. If the deck wore just a bit better that would be great for the noobs. I with help of community could arrange this. This is less important.
Idea originally from colorless green. A leader board for highest rated npc decks would be cool. Not important.
Changes regarding you
I just want you to know that 1 simply silly post like. I'm working on a thing right now I won't be able to do much for a year. can mean so extremely much to community. Humans has an ability to expect the worst scenarios when nothing else is said and many here including myself has or do believe that you don't care about this game at all. Even if you got a so called "bad reason" it's still better to say it than not to say it. At least it shows that you care a little. I'd like to add that I still have fate in you.
To discuss.
- If chroma is a good name to :chroma
- I've been having this idea that perhaps a story set of NPCs should exist. Like a quest where you have to defeat a certain set of NPC in a certain order in a given day to get the whole story. This would be like a later, mid level quest on something like 13 decks in increasing difficulty until you need to fight a FG level creature.Original idea keeps. I liked this idea. Can we continue to work on it?
Possibly some vanilla cards get abilities, but you only get that ability randomly- for example, cockatrice gets a 1/10 chance to gain "petrification" whenever it's played, and there are "levels" of upgrades to increase the chances of the creature getting that ability, but paid for with something other than electrum.
For example, for every 25 levels an AI has rounded down, you gain a 50% chance to gain a "token" when you defeat it (so a level 25 AI would give you a 50% chance to get a token, a level 50 AI would give you a token automatically, and a level 75 AI would give you a token and a 50% chance to get a token.) Tokens can be spent giving minor upgrades to individual cards with a level system (1, 2, or 3 tokens to raise a level, depending on the card and level) and the higher the level of a card, the higher the chance of that creature getting an additional effect (for example, paying one electrum to raise cockatrice one level adds a 10% chance for it to gain the petrification ability, for a 1/5 chance of gaining petrification when the card is played.)
Additional effects could be stuff that doesn't take a lot of time to program (like simple attack buffs or chances to evade targeting) but it would give people another reason to keep playing, and if additional effects are restricted to un-activatable effects, the time investment for zanzarino (hopefully) wouldn't be as big a deal.
For example, for every 25 levels an AI has rounded down, you gain a 50% chance to gain a "token" when you defeat it (so a level 25 AI would give you a 50% chance to get a token, a level 50 AI would give you a token automatically, and a level 75 AI would give you a token and a 50% chance to get a token.) Tokens can be spent giving minor upgrades to individual cards with a level system (1, 2, or 3 tokens to raise a level, depending on the card and level) and the higher the level of a card, the higher the chance of that creature getting an additional effect (for example, paying one electrum to raise cockatrice one level adds a 10% chance for it to gain the petrification ability, for a 1/5 chance of gaining petrification when the card is played.)
Additional effects could be stuff that doesn't take a lot of time to program (like simple attack buffs or chances to evade targeting) but it would give people another reason to keep playing, and if additional effects are restricted to un-activatable effects, the time investment for zanzarino (hopefully) wouldn't be as big a deal.
Spoiler for post by keeps. I think it's something that is relevant to discuss.
There have been many debates on the quantity and effects of cards for a while....
Honestly, I would like to see more cards in general, by more as in double or triple the current count.
1.) I personally think each element needs it own personal spin on each core area of the game that many still have missing areas:
1x perm defense (salvanger, protect artifact)
1x perm control (steal, defrag, etc)
1x alternative damage (poison, spell, SoV, etc)
1x counter to alternative damage (purify, reflect, etc)
1x creature quanta gain (pests, flies, ray of light, etc)
1x spell quanta gain (nova)
1x spell damage source (explosive gas, fire bolt, etc)
1x AOE creature control (thunderstorm, pandora, etc)
1x target creature control (chaos seed, reverse time, etc)
1x heal form (heal, divinity, purify, etc)
2x shield types (life, light, death element examples)
1x multi-use spell (purify, acceleration, reverse time)
1x cross cross synergy card for each element combination, be it active ability or obvious synergy (Sundial, GoP + Nightmare, leaf dragon)
Until this is addressed, a big part of random encounters is simply what elements were selected, especially in mono or dual combos. I've posted in past accounts, many examples of mono decks that were simply unable to be beat (except by rng) by any mono deck of a specific element. Until then this game remains completely unbalanced. These core areas need addressed.
The examples above don't have to individual cards, for example, purify meets the heal, multiuse, and the counter to poison.
Each element's card respective cards should stay true to the element. Life, should remain the master of heal, no one should have any question the best element for healing is life. No one should have bigger damaging cards out of the gate than Fire. A good spell for fire, might be fuel, in which sacrificing a creature to a fire might offer some healing effect, similar to cremation. Respect to certain cards by ability should remain, for example, protect artifact is in effect the ultimate protection for perms, however lots of creative and less effective perm control can exist for example, time might do a time seal where the perm card has no effect but can't be targeted or removed from play for 2 turns.
The natural meta game radically shifts, and I know some people in the forums would threaten to quit but many, many more have already quit over this issues.
Quote from mathematistic. Interesting
It would be much better if the reputation is spent as a currency to unlock otherwise inaccessible rewards (random shard/new super-rares, along with the HP upgrades). That way the use of the reputation is more diverse, and the players feel like they have control over the elemental they manifest into in the game, much like a real RPG, where you grow you character to the path you wish to. Small perks like attack bonus/hp bonus (like +1 for the atk or hp for cards of that element if nonzero) much like HD Xyth's campaign mode might work too. If you know about Tyrant, you know the reasons that the raid revamp worked because raid reputation can be spent and grinding got greatly improved. Elements is different from other CCGs, but it's always good to learn from the good things about others.
As for the balancing issue, I would recommend that you make small perks for different stats (10% chance to generate 1 extra quanta/+20HP/+1 atk/hp for nonzero creatres/15% to regain 1 qaunta when playing cards of that element) etc etc. Buffing 1 stat (health) to 150% sounds ridiculous and game-breaking, although the pvp enthusiasts would probably have already thought of pvp1 and 2 banning extra perks and adding pvp3 that allows them, which is also a quick and cost-effective solution.
As for the balancing issue, I would recommend that you make small perks for different stats (10% chance to generate 1 extra quanta/+20HP/+1 atk/hp for nonzero creatres/15% to regain 1 qaunta when playing cards of that element) etc etc. Buffing 1 stat (health) to 150% sounds ridiculous and game-breaking, although the pvp enthusiasts would probably have already thought of pvp1 and 2 banning extra perks and adding pvp3 that allows them, which is also a quick and cost-effective solution.
Allow pvp playing with benefits in the map
Spoiler for odin's post. Can we make more ideas alike. I was mainly thinking about quests.
I just had an awesome idea for how to make use of the 900 hp cap for a cool rare NPC encounter... and a Kong badge to go with it:
NPC name: Overloaded Phase Dragons
Stats:
hp = 900
mark multiplier = 1
draw multiplier = x2You spot two phase dragons off in the distance heading your way. They are known for their wisdom . Perhaps you can reason with them... As the close, you realize something is wrong, chaotic energies crackle along their skin. They speak in a paniced voice: "Run mortal, we can't hold the rift any..." Their appearance suddenly turns feral, the arcing lightening building stronger.The energy is too strong to contain...You must either run or ride out the storm... They're gonna blow!Kong Badge: "Riders on the Storm"
(for those who don't know the song reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riders_on_the_Storm)
To earn the badge, you have to: "Find and take down the 'Overloaded Phase Dragons' before the deck runs out."
Its deck size is 10 cards, which bumps to 20 after the multiplier, so to beat the NPC you only have to survive for about (20-7)/2 = 6 turns... Having tested it out, thats not really too hard as long as you put out some creatures to absorb all the damage spells.
Taking down that many hp before its deck runs out, however, should be a fun challenge (likely requiring some clever deck building).
Idea from keeps. Should things like this be added?
Gaining alternative marks with repetition.
Examples
Mark of Shadow -> Your opponent loses 1 :light quanta at the end of their turn all darkness creatures get +0/+1 absorbs :darkness
Mark of Plague -> At the end of a player's turn, All creatures lose 1 health, to a maximum of 50% of their max health rounded up. absorbs :death
Mark of Dawn -> Your opponent loses 1 :darkness quanta at the end of their turn all light creatures get +0/+1 aborbs :light
Mark of Chaos -> One random spell effect occurs to one random target at the end of your turn, if the effect can not target the target choosen nothing happens absorbs :entropy
Mark of Grounding -> The next X creature attacking with flying loses flying where X is the number of Marks of Grounding in play. absorbs :gravity
Mark of Consumption -> each creature gets +1/-1 when attacking. absorbs :fire
Mark of Roots -> Each :life permanent has a 15% chance of coming back into play if destroyed. absorbs :life
Mark of Flight -> The next X creature attacking without flying gains flying where X is the number of Marks of Flightin play. absorbs : :air
Mark of Hardness-> You gain 3 max HP at the end of your turn. absorbs :earth
Mark of Leaking -> Draw 1 additional card if you can during your draw phases, discard a card if you have a card in your hand at the end of your turn. :water
Mark of Stopping -> Both players can hold 1 less card in their hands. absorbs
(this one made by fabian) Mark of Electricity: The next X creature loses random HP from 1 to 5 where X is the number of Marks of Electricity in play. Every 2 Marks of Electricity max random damage increases by 1.Example: Creature #7 got the hit. 3 Marks of Electricity in play: Next creature to get hit is creature #10. If there were only 9 creatures, then the next one is #1. And it continues like that. absorbs :aetherExamples
Mark of Shadow -> Your opponent loses 1 :light quanta at the end of their turn all darkness creatures get +0/+1 absorbs :darkness
Mark of Plague -> At the end of a player's turn, All creatures lose 1 health, to a maximum of 50% of their max health rounded up. absorbs :death
Mark of Dawn -> Your opponent loses 1 :darkness quanta at the end of their turn all light creatures get +0/+1 aborbs :light
Mark of Chaos -> One random spell effect occurs to one random target at the end of your turn, if the effect can not target the target choosen nothing happens absorbs :entropy
Mark of Grounding -> The next X creature attacking with flying loses flying where X is the number of Marks of Grounding in play. absorbs :gravity
Mark of Consumption -> each creature gets +1/-1 when attacking. absorbs :fire
Mark of Roots -> Each :life permanent has a 15% chance of coming back into play if destroyed. absorbs :life
Mark of Flight -> The next X creature attacking without flying gains flying where X is the number of Marks of Flightin play. absorbs : :air
Mark of Hardness-> You gain 3 max HP at the end of your turn. absorbs :earth
Mark of Leaking -> Draw 1 additional card if you can during your draw phases, discard a card if you have a card in your hand at the end of your turn. :water
Mark of Stopping -> Both players can hold 1 less card in their hands. absorbs
Quote from jaydos99. I like it.
I was thinking that perhaps the NPC's could be hidden in the field. Such that if you want to travel to a certain spot in game, randomly you would be attacked by an NPC with a level in line with the area level. One-off mini boss NPC's could guard the exits of an area with a level in line with the level of the adjacent area. This gives the new player a goal to "break out" of each beginner area and explore, on top of the quests to keep things interesting.
The exact mechanics would have to be worked out, but effectively this would alter the way that a new player can travel the map. Forcing them to buy better cards and create stronger strategies in order to move further around the map. Just an idea but it would lead very nicely into an RPG/storyline based version of Elements.
The exact mechanics would have to be worked out, but effectively this would alter the way that a new player can travel the map. Forcing them to buy better cards and create stronger strategies in order to move further around the map. Just an idea but it would lead very nicely into an RPG/storyline based version of Elements.
For players.
Submit npc decks!!! we can't have to many.
Post by: Atico on July 29, 2013, 02:00:36 pm
The same problem is in Arena.
Post by: BloodlinE on July 29, 2013, 02:03:28 pm
will this replace fgs as well? do you increase the FGs hp by 1000 as well? why is the HP cap 1000?
Post by: moehrpi on July 29, 2013, 02:16:30 pm
Good job as always!
Post by: kvothe1990 on July 29, 2013, 02:20:14 pm
Post by: dragonsdemesne on July 29, 2013, 02:27:09 pm
Post by: Belligerence on July 29, 2013, 02:40:21 pm
Post by: ColorlessGreen on July 29, 2013, 03:24:28 pm
I hope all the previous AIs (and arena) still remain in the game, though (in one form or another). There's value in all of them, and having a colosseum on the map (or something) where you can just pick one of the old AIs seems like it'd fit just fine.
Thanks, zanz. This sounds like the kind of update we've been needing.
Post by: Blacksmith on July 29, 2013, 03:26:37 pm
It would be nice to pick for example 800hp in other method than clicking over 100 times "+".For everyone who thinks it's boring to click 100 times try to use the tab button; it's 2 steps above the shift button, then arrows and enter. It still take time but it is a lot faster.
The same problem is in Arena.
Post by: Chapuz on July 29, 2013, 04:50:48 pm
Post by: nireus on July 29, 2013, 04:53:21 pm
Post by: Naesala on July 29, 2013, 05:18:24 pm
Post by: Blacksmith on July 29, 2013, 05:22:21 pm
Concerns: make sure you don't break the Kongregate badges. AI0 and False god need to, in some way, stick around in order for players to get the badges. I don't know if this is possible, but you could see if there is a way to leave that as the old version and have Elements 1.4 be a "new" game on kong. Would attract many more players.Sounds smart, and yes it's possible to have 2 different games with the same base on kong( not sure how the servers would handle it though. ). I really like this idea, many players has left since they got bored it would be a great way to get those back.
The badges can also be changed, ask Wolfunit for more info.
Post by: Terroking on July 29, 2013, 05:27:59 pm
As always, Zanz, keep up the good work, & thanks for putting time into this game.
Post by: Dm on July 29, 2013, 05:50:59 pm
Post by: yee on July 29, 2013, 05:57:21 pm
Post by: Chapuz on July 29, 2013, 06:40:44 pm
Post by: ddevans96 on July 29, 2013, 06:56:24 pm
Post by: zanzarino on July 29, 2013, 06:56:50 pm
FAQ:
Can we have something faster to set HP?
Just type whatever number you like where is says hp:____ just underneath the HP bar.
Does this replace arena?
Even though i recycled the arena interface to save time, this has nothing to do with the arena and nothing will change with the arena; but I would like to see the your arena decks wondering on the map in a level appropriate zone.
900 hp, isn't that too much?
The NPC creator is just a sandbox tool, it is not part of the game, we are going to need all kind of NPC's, from level 0 critters with 5 HP that give next to nothing as a reward to rare-elite NPC that are hard to find and very hard to kill.
If a "pinata" NPC with 900hp and no defenses is fun to hit with huge numbers... why not add it to the game? That is why I removed most restrictions.
What is going to happen to the old AI0,1,2,3,4 and FG?
They can all stay and find a new home on the map, they just need a name (if they do not have one yet) and a description, the old FG's can even get their own zones as local bosses, surrounded by smaller minions.
In general I would like to keep:
AI0 like deck in level 0-10 areas
AI1 like deck in level 10-20 areas
AI2 like deck in level 20-30 areas
AI3 like deck in level 30-40 areas
AI4 like deck in level 40-50 areas
FG like decks in level 50-70 areas
Higher level areas will come as well.
How does the level work on the map?
With the map system the players are not going to get a random opponent anymore, they can go to a specific area on the map, say, for instance, an area with level 20"ish" darkness NPC's and adjust their deck to kill efficiently those decks. Elite NPC will also randomly appear and will be much harder to kill, but will give better rewards (of course). The map is also going to allow events, maybe next week an invasion of rustlers following the lead of a leaf dragon boss, maybe with a quest asking you to save the world of Elements from their leafy menace.
How about the kongregate badges?
The old AI's will still be around in some form, badges will be adjusted accordingly.
Post by: teffy on July 29, 2013, 07:05:23 pm
Typing in HP seems to work correctly for me only, if the field isn't empty.
Btw: 3 Marks, 2 x Drawing , 200 HP -> approximately Level 73. (Not 80 ?).
Will the created decks have their according mark and card ?
Will Quantum Mark exist ?
Edit:Looks like the HP must be higher than five. If you clear the number and type in 100, you get a small problem. But we have arrow keys, don`t we ?
Post by: Chapuz on July 29, 2013, 07:06:12 pm
Making the players choose to play against 1 specific deck is a bad idea, in my whole opinion. there will be a perfect counter for each one and they will become much more farmable than the current levels.
It would be fine if NPCs give you a random opponent between several different decks, like the current AIs.
Post by: DANIEELA on July 29, 2013, 07:07:23 pm
a lot of players avoid to play half bloods because of low number of cards that can be won from spins there.
Post by: zanzarino on July 29, 2013, 07:10:34 pm
@zanzarino:
Making the players choose to play against 1 specific deck is a bad idea, in my whole opinion. there will be a perfect counter for each one and they will become much more farmable than the current levels.
It would be fine if NPCs give you a random opponent between several different decks, like the current AIs.
If you enter a zone and kill all of the antlions because you want to farm them, they will all be dead and then you'll have to wait for them to respawn. In the while an angry 900hp elite Antlion will run after you trying to get revenge for your massacre.
Official answer: the map will have an AI attached to the mob spawning. Sitting in an area for farming will do no good.
Post by: Marsu on July 29, 2013, 07:14:35 pm
...however, I would kind of like to use this rare opportunity to ask the question that almost everyone of us has on his or her mind:
Will there be a few new cards with this patch, or soon after?
Post by: RavingRabbid on July 29, 2013, 07:39:55 pm
I absolutely love this whole idea. Thanks so much, Zanzarino!Or some pretty pretty balance changes?
...however, I would kind of like to use this rare opportunity to ask the question that almost everyone of us has on his or her mind:
Will there be a few new cards with this patch, or soon after?
Post by: Rutarete on July 29, 2013, 07:51:03 pm
@zanzarino:On the contrary, it could turn out great for deck testing.
Making the players choose to play against 1 specific deck is a bad idea, in my whole opinion.
Post by: Dm on July 29, 2013, 08:12:27 pm
@zanzarino:On the contrary, it could turn out great for deck testing.
Making the players choose to play against 1 specific deck is a bad idea, in my whole opinion.
Given there are no rewards in this fight, obviously.
Post by: Theboss1248 on July 29, 2013, 08:25:21 pm
Post by: Chapuz on July 29, 2013, 08:35:12 pm
There is a bug while testing a deck in the NPC creator: If the NPC plays SoDiv (and I am guessing Stone Skin as well), its max health goes to 900 regardless of its original max HP.max HP will increase from the current 499 if I'm not wrong
Post by: Theboss1248 on July 29, 2013, 08:50:41 pm
(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/3860/t2r1.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/18/t2r1.png/)
Post by: Newbiecake on July 29, 2013, 09:44:02 pm
Here is a screenshot I took, initial max HP is 250 it then played a SoDiv:
(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/3860/t2r1.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/18/t2r1.png/)
LOL that's OP.
Wow. After leaving this game for a year to focus on my studies, I find this amazing update to be deployed (hopefully soon). Thanks Zanz for not leaving us in the dust; this update will sure add a lot of depth into the game.
Post by: ggabriel2 on July 29, 2013, 09:54:30 pm
Post by: Theboss1248 on July 29, 2013, 10:18:22 pm
So far FG-level opponents have been described as rare elite mobs/boss encounters. Will there be higher-end areas where players will be able to find challenging high-risk, high-reward opponents to fight without having to play a lot of dull battles against weaker opponents? Playing against lower level AI decks is not very interesting and I don't know how long the PvE areas would sustain my interest if I had to run through a bunch of filler fights to find anything worthwhile to do.
Quoted from Zanzarino:
AI0 like deck in level 0-10 areas
AI1 like deck in level 10-20 areas
AI2 like deck in level 20-30 areas
AI3 like deck in level 30-40 areas
AI4 like deck in level 40-50 areas
FG like decks in level 50-70 areas
So yes, there will be a zone for FG difficulty matches.
Post by: Leodip on July 29, 2013, 10:58:14 pm
Post by: moomoose on July 29, 2013, 11:22:16 pm
Post by: mrpaper on July 29, 2013, 11:29:34 pm
Post by: BeefSupreme on July 29, 2013, 11:29:48 pm
I play this game on Kongregate and regularly chat in the Elements chat. I see noobs struggling enough to farm and, if it gets any harder for noobs to start off, I think they'll just give up playing. Please just keep that in mind while experimenting with new features for 1.4 ^.^
Post by: Pineapple on July 29, 2013, 11:43:08 pm
Stuff to play with at this very moment.
Official Other quanta icon.
Today was a good day.
Post by: Zso_Zso on July 30, 2013, 12:02:07 am
I'm looking forward to participate in the NPC creation fun :)
I'd like to second the idea, that top-ranking arena decks should be considered for inclusion as NPC decks. I wonder what will be the selection system for the NPC decks. Once the floodgates of submissions are opened, I'm sure there will be plenty of decks submitted...
Post by: Theboss1248 on July 30, 2013, 12:16:41 am
Great News! Sounds like an epic update!
I'm looking forward to participate in the NPC creation fun :)
I'd like to second the idea, that top-ranking arena decks should be considered for inclusion as NPC decks. I wonder what will be the selection system for the NPC decks. Once the floodgates of submissions are opened, I'm sure there will be plenty of decks submitted...
Since there is an option to test a random deck I am thinking there could be upvoting like arena.
Post by: rob77dp on July 30, 2013, 01:07:05 am
Post by: Rutarete on July 30, 2013, 01:08:02 am
Am I the only one wondering what 'NPC' means besides "decks people make and submit for this new EtG 1.4 release"? (So, what does 'NPC' mean?)Non-player Character
Post by: Drake_XIV on July 30, 2013, 01:18:55 am
Am I the only one wondering what 'NPC' means besides "decks people make and submit for this new EtG 1.4 release"? (So, what does 'NPC' mean?)Non-player Character
/me facepalms.
I'm guessing Zanz is going to try to weave together some more of loose quest line. He just needs characters and decks, which we'll be providing.
Post by: Pineapple on July 30, 2013, 01:26:25 am
/me facepalms.
Well, at least this shows the quips on being noob-friendly do not go without warrant.
Post by: rob77dp on July 30, 2013, 02:12:04 am
Am I the only one wondering what 'NPC' means besides "decks people make and submit for this new EtG 1.4 release"? (So, what does 'NPC' mean?)Non-player Character
This leads to so many more questions- what does non-player 'character' have to do with Elements? Is this something that is obvious to a new and the average player? Is NPC a gaming 'standard term' and if so it seems something more apt for this Elements purpose could be used. (I guess I could learn a new-to-me term too though.)
Post by: Newbiecake on July 30, 2013, 02:50:23 am
Post by: Jyiber on July 30, 2013, 03:55:31 am
Being an Elements noob is one thing...Am I the only one wondering what 'NPC' means besides "decks people make and submit for this new EtG 1.4 release"? (So, what does 'NPC' mean?)Non-player Character
Asking what an NPC is...
Post by: rob77dp on July 30, 2013, 04:04:07 am
Being an Elements noob-Master is one thing...Am I the only one wondering what 'NPC' means besides "decks people make and submit for this new EtG 1.4 release"? (So, what does 'NPC' mean?)Non-player Character
Asking what an NPC is... is just absurd?
FIFY.
;)
Apparently, my gaming experience is quite limited and lacking knowledge of many (most?) acronyms. I doubt this is the last time my limited experience will show!
Post by: Jyiber on July 30, 2013, 04:37:45 am
Apparently, my gaming experience is quite limited and lacking knowledge of many (most?) acronyms. I doubt this is the last time my limited experience will show!Oh, I know where your coming from. I had to go through a similar process... sometimes I forget I had no idea what anyone was talking about either for the longest time. It get's worse with every new game you play, too. Any given game can have their own little abbreviations and acronyms.
It's just that NPC is a very common one that's been in use for a while. You should have heard it at some point in the past 10 years unless you're young or have been living under a rock.
Post by: TheAccuso on July 30, 2013, 04:50:20 am
Maybe we can have those via oracle along the fg prediction, electrums etc.etc.
Watcha think?
Post by: Marsu on July 30, 2013, 08:01:26 am
My only concern for the new update is that this might make the game less noob-friendly which, in my honest opinion, is a bad direction to go.
I play this game on Kongregate and regularly chat in the Elements chat. I see noobs struggling enough to farm and, if it gets any harder for noobs to start off, I think they'll just give up playing. Please just keep that in mind while experimenting with new features for 1.4 ^.^
Dunno why you could possibly think so. The way Elements is atm, new players have a blast at first and then suddenly hit a wall with AI4 and Arena.
With this patch, we will finally have a fluent passage between those grades of difficulty.
Post by: Leodip on July 30, 2013, 08:16:53 am
I said what Beef said about a couple pages ago, because it'll make it less farmable. Farming is a regular part of gaming here and in a lot of other games, expecially CCGs.My only concern for the new update is that this might make the game less noob-friendly which, in my honest opinion, is a bad direction to go.
I play this game on Kongregate and regularly chat in the Elements chat. I see noobs struggling enough to farm and, if it gets any harder for noobs to start off, I think they'll just give up playing. Please just keep that in mind while experimenting with new features for 1.4 ^.^
Dunno why you could possibly think so. The way Elements is atm, new players have a blast at first and then suddenly hit a wall with AI4 and Arena.
With this patch, we will finally have a fluent passage between those grades of difficulty.
Post by: BeefSupreme on July 30, 2013, 09:16:05 am
My only concern for the new update is that this might make the game less noob-friendly which, in my honest opinion, is a bad direction to go.
I play this game on Kongregate and regularly chat in the Elements chat. I see noobs struggling enough to farm and, if it gets any harder for noobs to start off, I think they'll just give up playing. Please just keep that in mind while experimenting with new features for 1.4 ^.^
Dunno why you could possibly think so. The way Elements is atm, new players have a blast at first and then suddenly hit a wall with AI4 and Arena.
With this patch, we will finally have a fluent passage between those grades of difficulty.
I don't know how often you're on Kongregate, but that's not really the case. A lot of people have a rough time starting off and they don't like how much grinding it takes to be "good" at this game. I just fear that the harder the grinding gets, the less people will spend their time on this game.
Post by: Fippe94 on July 30, 2013, 09:31:20 am
Post by: Blacksmith on July 30, 2013, 11:00:16 am
Post by: treebeard xiii on July 30, 2013, 11:01:14 am
Post by: Helston on July 30, 2013, 11:09:28 am
And here I was expecting a smaller update, ala the ones that introduced newer shards.
Post by: vrt on July 30, 2013, 11:10:12 am
If you'd still like some art made for Elements to go with this new patch, you have my email. It'd be nice to occasionally get a reply, too. ;)
Post by: SnoWeb on July 30, 2013, 11:51:26 am
All this developing of the game is great. I just hope it won't prevent Zanz to produce a couple of new cards and fix some balances on those existing.
Post by: dawn to dusk on July 30, 2013, 11:58:00 am
EDIT: my post is on the top of page 8 :P
Post by: suxerz on July 30, 2013, 04:18:12 pm
Maybe I'm just overestimating this, but I imagine this update is going to be something really big. I feel that we definitely need at least one new kong badge to attract more people to play. It would also be great to have a special page for in-game achievements. Few ideas about the achievements - beating a specific AI/NPC, reaching a certain score/level and clearing particular areas. Of course there'll be more.
Kinda off-topic:
I can see in the bestiary that we have an official mark for "others". Do we already have that somewhere in the forum? If not, it'll be great if zanz or someone could share it here so we can add it to the forum. Btw, what did we use to represent "others" before? Is it :underworld or :rainbow ?
Post by: Blacksmith on July 30, 2013, 04:47:01 pm
Post by: Drake_XIV on July 30, 2013, 05:42:52 pm
This is awesome!
Maybe I'm just overestimating this, but I imagine this update is going to be something really big. I feel that we definitely need at least one new kong badge to attract more people to play. It would also be great to have a special page for in-game achievements. Few ideas about the achievements - beating a specific AI/NPC, reaching a certain score/level and clearing particular areas. Of course there'll be more.
Kinda off-topic:
I can see in the bestiary that we have an official mark for "others". Do we already have that somewhere in the forum? If not, it'll be great if zanz or someone could share it here so we can add it to the forum. Btw, what did we use to represent "others" before? Is it :underworld or :rainbow ?
:rainbow is used more often to represent the cost of Other cards.
Post by: Anarook on July 30, 2013, 06:15:44 pm
@Zanz - will you be revisiting and possibly restructuring old code to make future updates more viable
Post by: zanzarino on July 30, 2013, 06:34:12 pm
Added Mark of Chroma (the name of the mark is up for debate) that generates 3 random quanta per turn.
Post by: Kamietsu on July 30, 2013, 06:40:47 pm
Fixed max HP bugs.
Added Mark of Chroma (the name of the mark is up for debate) that generates 3 random quanta per turn.
And the Rainbow lovers rejoice! (myself included)
But on a more serious note, this update sounds amazing and to those saying it will make the game less newb-friendly, i strongly believe the opposite. With more varied opponents, stricter level zones(and decks within those zones), it can only make this game more friendly for new players. If anything it will affect the long time players the least since I imagine anything below a certain level zone will be much too easy for them. Plus the idea of a quest system also increases the new player grabbing and staying ability of this game. Heck, I think some new people might stay only because it will have quests. The want and desire to fulfill some sort of in-game requirement is and most likely always will be a big staple in games because it is pretty addicting.
But if we talk about addicting, adding in game achievements or badges to Elements would be the ultimate addiction, at least for myself and lots of others.
Post by: Rutarete on July 30, 2013, 07:13:48 pm
But if we talk about addicting, adding in game achievements or badges to Elements would be the ultimate addiction, at least for myself and lots of others.
Post by: Acsabi44 on July 30, 2013, 08:27:42 pm
:rainbow is used more often to represent the cost of Other cards.I remember differently.... :underworld is for other cards. :rainbow is for "rainbow" (whic is ofc not a card but a deck)
Post by: rob77dp on July 30, 2013, 08:40:42 pm
:rainbow is used more often to represent the cost of Other cards.I remember differently.... :underworld is for other cards. :rainbow is for "rainbow" (whic is ofc not a card but a deck)
I think I used :rainbow as indicating the "colorless" quanta usage (Luciferin, Animate Weapon...) and :underworld as "other" element (Quantum Pillar, the generic weapons, Relic, 1.31-shards...). This somewhat agrees with Acs here. In the end, the context of the usage of either should give away what you were meaning (generally).
Post by: treebeard xiii on July 30, 2013, 09:10:28 pm
Fixed max HP bugs.
Added Mark of Chroma (the name of the mark is up for debate) that generates 3 random quanta per turn.
er mah gerd a rainbow mark is it only for npcs or are you considering adding it into player deckbuilding as well.
Post by: suxerz on July 30, 2013, 09:17:08 pm
I think I used :rainbow as indicating the "colorless" quanta usage (Luciferin, Animate Weapon...) and :underworld as "other" element (Quantum Pillar, the generic weapons, Relic, 1.31-shards...). This somewhat agrees with Acs here. In the end, the context of the usage of either should give away what you were meaning (generally).:rainbow is used more often to represent the cost of Other cards.I remember differently.... :underworld is for other cards. :rainbow is for "rainbow" (whic is ofc not a card but a deck)
In any case, I think we should start using "Chroma" now. I would also go as far as renaming "Other" to "Chroma" since it sounds better.
So... anyone kind enough to put/recreate that image for public use? It'll be nice if we could use that as an icon in our post here in the forum. Oh, and don't forget the 120x120 version too!
Post by: Jyiber on July 30, 2013, 09:52:08 pm
I've been testing with it to see how much of a help it is against AI3 and FG decks.
For anyone that hasn't figured it out, changing the last 3 digits of your deck code to 8pi lets you use it in the Bestiary.
Post by: Blacksmith on July 30, 2013, 09:59:08 pm
The Mark of Chroma... Beautiful and dangerous. IMHO, I can tell you it's the biggest game changer in this update even next to this giant NPC rehash, that is if Zanz decides to give it to us...Even if I like the idea of giving other a better name, naming it chroma make it sound like an element. I think this shall be taken into consideration before changing the name.
Post by: zanzarino on July 30, 2013, 10:21:19 pm
The gates are now open! Go ahead and submit your NPC.
No name duplicates are allowed, if you want to submit a second version of your NPC please add a "v2" etc.
E.g.: Your NPC name is "Toxic Quail" but you have a better version: call it "Toxic Quailv2"
Creating sets of NPC is also appreciated:
E.g.: "Toxic Quail", "Elite Toxic Quail" and "Terrifying Quail of Death".
Soon I'll add a function to the bestiary that will allow us to test and view (but not modify) the submitted NPC's.
Post by: Belligerence on July 30, 2013, 10:24:43 pm
Post by: Blacksmith on July 30, 2013, 10:34:18 pm
The thing says it's version 1,324.
Post by: zanzarino on July 30, 2013, 10:36:02 pm
Hm I can't get the submit thing to work. It still says coming soon. I have reloaded the page.Hard refresh (ctrl+F5) should do. Clear internet temp. files if that also does not work.
Post by: Blacksmith on July 30, 2013, 10:38:24 pm
AH thank you! Works perfectly now. Also thank you for very fast reply, you almost beats Majofa.Hm I can't get the submit thing to work. It still says coming soon. I have reloaded the page.Hard refresh (ctrl+F5) should do. Clear internet temp. files if that also does not work.
Post by: TheAccuso on July 30, 2013, 10:44:58 pm
Because when it comes to hight stats it become a total nightmare defeat it.
On this note, i'd like to know also, if said quests are going to be predictable in some way, like a small group of npc you may battle, when it comes to a certain level or even a specific predetermined single type of npc, in the high rankings ofc since the problem exists there?
Post by: zanzarino on July 30, 2013, 11:01:26 pm
I have one question, do we have to aim for something beatable in the first place right?
Because when it comes to hight stats it become a total nightmare defeat it.
On this note, i'd like to know also, if said quests are going to be predictable in some way, like a small group of npc you may battle, when it comes to a certain level or even a specific predetermined single type of npc, in the high rankings ofc since the problem exists there?
To answer your questions:
I am currently working on creating the level 0 critters that new players will encounter in the starting zones.
The last one I created is called "Erwin" (Schrodinger cat icon), the description says:
"These felines are a common sight around the Entropy Palace, they enjoy playing with boxes.".
They have 20 hp, Schrodinger cats and vultures in the deck. Very easy to beat.
Just ask yourself what NPC you want to create, an easy fight for a new player or a tough one? This is going to be almost like writing a book, we are creating the characters here, next we will create a place for them to exist.
The quests will come in last so that there is something to do with these characters.
Post by: Rutarete on July 30, 2013, 11:09:37 pm
THe way I learned is:rainbow is used more often to represent the cost of Other cards.I remember differently.... :underworld is for other cards. :rainbow is for "rainbow" (whic is ofc not a card but a deck)
:underworld = underworld, used for war
:rainbow = used for costs that aren't restricted to a single one of the 12
Post by: Kamietsu on July 30, 2013, 11:15:14 pm
I think I used :rainbow as indicating the "colorless" quanta usage (Luciferin, Animate Weapon...) and :underworld as "other" element (Quantum Pillar, the generic weapons, Relic, 1.31-shards...). This somewhat agrees with Acs here. In the end, the context of the usage of either should give away what you were meaning (generally).:rainbow is used more often to represent the cost of Other cards.I remember differently.... :underworld is for other cards. :rainbow is for "rainbow" (whic is ofc not a card but a deck)
In any case, I think we should start using "Chroma" now. I would also go as far as renaming "Other" to "Chroma" since it sounds better.
So... anyone kind enough to put/recreate that image for public use? It'll be nice if we could use that as an icon in our post here in the forum. Oh, and don't forget the 120x120 version too!
Working on it, will update this post when i have it done.
Edit: All nice and finished for the 120x120 size.
Post by: rob77dp on July 30, 2013, 11:20:11 pm
I think I used :rainbow as indicating the "colorless" quanta usage (Luciferin, Animate Weapon...) and :underworld as "other" element (Quantum Pillar, the generic weapons, Relic, 1.31-shards...). This somewhat agrees with Acs here. In the end, the context of the usage of either should give away what you were meaning (generally).:rainbow is used more often to represent the cost of Other cards.I remember differently.... :underworld is for other cards. :rainbow is for "rainbow" (whic is ofc not a card but a deck)
In any case, I think we should start using "Chroma" now. I would also go as far as renaming "Other" to "Chroma" since it sounds better.
So... anyone kind enough to put/recreate that image for public use? It'll be nice if we could use that as an icon in our post here in the forum. Oh, and don't forget the 120x120 version too!
Fixed max HP bugs.
Added Mark of Chroma (the name of the mark is up for debate) that generates 3 random quanta per turn.
"Chroma" isn't even the final naming for it yet. It seems a bit pre-mature to start blasting the term "Chroma" all over at this point. Use it to refer to the quantum mark? Sure. However, beyond discussing things related to it I think suggestions for alternate naming are more appropriate than taking "Chroma" and running with it so soon.
Also, I am really hoping the quantum mark (Chroma, for now) gets integrated for use by player-decks in 1.4. I think it would open the door for all kinds of cool stuff we cannot really do now (in stable deck building).
Post by: Theboss1248 on July 31, 2013, 12:35:53 am
Anyways, where are the descriptions going to be used and do they have to be necessarily good in order to get picked to be in game?
Post by: treebeard xiii on July 31, 2013, 12:56:46 am
Completely random and low on priority list, but in the test deck phase on the bestiary it says "Test you deck, ..." should say Test your deck*.I think the description will be used when you 'run' into the npcs on the map and maybe in potential discussions in possible 'safe zones'.
Anyways, where are the descriptions going to be used and do they have to be necessarily good in order to get picked to be in game?
also by the way zanzarino there appears to be a problem with the chroma mark not working in deck testing it will show in the deckbuilding screens however when it comes to actually using it in a deck it defaults to a normal mark.
Post by: Kamietsu on July 31, 2013, 12:58:41 am
Doesn't look as pretty in 18x18 size: (http://i.imgur.com/QLPvfub.png)
Post by: Nelde95 on July 31, 2013, 01:05:09 am
What will become of the trainer? Will it remain unchanged, change with the game, or perhaps removed entirely?
Also: Will the areas have music themes at some point in the future?
I'm really looking forward to this update ^^
Post by: ddevans96 on July 31, 2013, 01:17:25 am
Post by: majofa on July 31, 2013, 01:46:47 am
^ a manual change to Chromas Mark would be nice
'Remove all' removes all but the 5 first cards. (still similar to the arena?)
Post by: Chapuz on July 31, 2013, 02:15:39 am
It would be really nice if you could do this.
Post by: artimies7 on July 31, 2013, 02:16:34 am
The AI actually works with Dragtosis pretty well.
Thank you again, zanzarino!
Post by: CuCN on July 31, 2013, 02:57:03 am
Post by: zanzarino on July 31, 2013, 03:50:46 am
Completely random and low on priority list, but in the test deck phase on the bestiary it says "Test you deck, ..." should say Test your deck*.
Anyways, where are the descriptions going to be used and do they have to be necessarily good in order to get picked to be in game?
The description will appear when you click or roll over an NPC. Descriptions will add flavor and lore to the NPC.
I realize that most players will not read them, but some will, it would be nice to put hints in the description about a possible weakness for your deck especially if it is a mid-level zone where players might get frustrated if they use the wrong strategy.
Something like: Dimensional shields were considered unbeatable, until the advent of momentum.
Post by: Jyiber on July 31, 2013, 04:57:23 am
Other minor issues I'm sure others and yourself may have noticed, but I'm still going to point out just in case:
- The Mark and Card Drawing Multipliers read falsely in the final product.
- The Chromas mark isn't working anymore.
- Won't allow you to remove the first 5 cards (unless you delete information in import/export and import empty deck)
EDIT: Nevermind, I reloaded it and some of the issues went away.
Post by: zanzarino on July 31, 2013, 04:57:34 am
There we go: (http://i.imgur.com/aEkR8oO.png)
Doesn't look as pretty in 18x18 size: (http://i.imgur.com/QLPvfub.png)
Uhm yes if you do not have the vectors it is quite complicated... here, let me help you:
(http://www.elementsthegame.com/aEkR8oO.png)(http://www.elementsthegame.com/QLPvfub.png)
Post by: Kamietsu on July 31, 2013, 05:08:40 am
There we go: (http://i.imgur.com/aEkR8oO.png)
Doesn't look as pretty in 18x18 size: (http://i.imgur.com/QLPvfub.png)
Uhm yes if you do not have the vectors it is quite complicated... here, let me help you:
(http://www.elementsthegame.com/aEkR8oO.png)(http://www.elementsthegame.com/QLPvfub.png)
Awesome, thanks Zanz :D I kinda figured it out after a bit of tweaking but your smaller one looks infinitely better than mine haha
Post by: Kuroaitou on July 31, 2013, 07:34:37 am
I feel kind of awful that I only realized that 'adding hints' to the description of the NPC should have been obvious, but instead I just went for full 'lore' instead. In either case, I'll try my best now to have some subtle tips in the description for all these new NPCs that are coming about your way. Thank you so much Zanz! :)
Post by: Shantu on July 31, 2013, 08:43:33 am
Edit:
I also wonder if it would be a good idea or not to give the option for NPCs to start out with a set amount of quanta, just like you can in the trainer. More customization and more fun decks. Something like choosing how much quanta from which element. Or starting with preset cards already on the field.
Post by: Leodip on July 31, 2013, 09:05:09 am
Post by: Marsu on July 31, 2013, 11:25:47 am
/e: I might have made a mistake, but when I wanted to submit a deck with a name that already existed just now, the progress of 'leveling it down' (because 100 HP / no boni decks start with a way too high level) was lost, and that's quite some work. Maybe there's something that can be changed there.
Post by: Shrink on July 31, 2013, 11:28:38 am
Hey Zanz, what about a place where we can write who submitted a deck when doing so? Not expecting any in game mention of course, but it would be cool to have a thread in the forum when everything is done, and we could see who insipired which deck.
But, if they're all going to be mine, there's no need for that :P
Post by: Luminous on July 31, 2013, 11:45:59 am
Hey Zanz, what about a place where we can write who submitted a deck when doing so? Not expecting any in game mention of course, but it would be cool to have a thread in the forum when everything is done, and we could see who insipired which deck.
But, if they're all going to be mine, there's no need for that :P
I dare you Shrink P:
Also, a question. How will the map look like?
Post by: suxerz on July 31, 2013, 12:42:19 pm
Post by: TheonlyrealBeef on July 31, 2013, 01:26:37 pm
Couldn't help myself from making one of my own :P
Post by: jacker on July 31, 2013, 01:33:10 pm
Post by: ColorlessGreen on July 31, 2013, 03:10:29 pm
(1) Peak rating/rank and total thumbs ups for your submitted deck showing on the main arena screen (and possibly showing for everyone's decks on the arena leaderboard screen).
(2) Ability to thumbs up/down defeated arena decks.
These could be particularly useful things to track even aside from how much I want them - if that information is tracked then either factor (peak rating/rank or total thumbs ups) could be used to convert successful/interesting arena decks into new NPCs (e.g. with the back-story of them being successful retired arena fighters or something who now roam the lands terrorizing new players etc.)
Post by: serprex on July 31, 2013, 04:28:18 pm
Post by: zanzarino on July 31, 2013, 04:35:50 pm
Hey Zanz, what about a place where we can write who submitted a deck when doing so? Not expecting any in game mention of course, but it would be cool to have a thread in the forum when everything is done, and we could see who insipired which deck. Can we maybe just add [submitted by X] to the lore?
/e: I might have made a mistake, but when I wanted to submit a deck with a name that already existed just now, the progress of 'leveling it down' (because 100 HP / no boni decks start with a way too high level) was lost, and that's quite some work. Maybe there's something that can be changed there.
I do not plan to add a "submitted by X". Maybe we can have a list with deck names and creators on the forum, but I am going to let the forum admins decide if they want this and what is the best way to do it. It would also be useful with the name picking, as of today 215 NPC's have been submitted and some common names are not available anymore.
Post by: zanzarino on July 31, 2013, 04:39:40 pm
Awesome stuff, though there's one thing I'm wondering: everyone would love to have their own rare elite npc called after their own username, before everyone starts thinking up their own npc I have to ask whether they're seriously considered or dismissed by default?
Couldn't help myself from making one of my own :P
Usernames are not automatically dismissed because there are just too many usernames in the game, but I would avoid that, your arena deck will also probably wonder on the map with your username on it.
Post by: Keeps on July 31, 2013, 05:17:39 pm
Bugs,
I haven't been able to properly test a chromatic mark deck, I've submitted several based on the theory behind the deck figuring they will work as designed, but I've stayed away from some other decks that are a bit trickier without being able to test them properly.
Question about the AI,
How much work would it be to do something like setting a deck's priorities and wait to cast until lists so when making an NPC (or for that matter Arena). The number and types of decks that can be built are significantly limited without something like this. For example, previously unknown combos or strategies could be setup this way without you doing more than having to program the frame work.
Questions about the Map,
Are you going to have random NPC encounters and staged encounters? I didn't know. I've been building a mix of NPCs around both ideas?
Are you going to have specific quests in the map or (perhaps badges in kong for the kong users to these)?
Are there going to be a sidebar or deck switch options between encounters or quests?
Post by: Newbiecake on July 31, 2013, 06:08:12 pm
With the addition of the Mark of Chroma, how do you feel about reworking some of the FGs? For example, if I had the Mark of Chroma to work with when Lionheart was being made, he wouldn't be the "easiest" FG everyone claims him to be cause he decks himself out all the time when he gets a few Anubis out and has an excess of :aether to start Quinting everything.
Also, an unclear area is when you said FGs will be classified under the higher level NPC decks. Does this mean the new high level NPC decks will yield upgraded card spins as well?
Post by: Leodip on July 31, 2013, 06:12:22 pm
Hey Zanz,I asked about the last point, but no one cared.
With the addition of the Mark of Chroma, how do you feel about reworking some of the FGs? For example, if I had the Mark of Chroma to work with when Lionheart was being made, he wouldn't be the "easiest" FG everyone claims him to be cause he decks himself out all the time when he gets a few Anubis out and has an excess of :aether to start Quinting everything.
Also, an unclear area is when you said FGs will be classified under the higher level NPC decks. Does this mean the new high level NPC decks will yield upgraded card spins as well?
I mean, how do you define a deck is able to drop or not ups?
Post by: Tiko on July 31, 2013, 06:31:29 pm
I'm exceptionally hyped about this upcoming patch, because I'll finally get the very first portion of what I was always just daydreaming about: some real Lore from the World of Elements!
I'm also a bit sad, because whenever I try to submit an NPC, I always get confused on how well the character will fit into the game's universe. The only enemies present with their own 'personalities' are False Gods (and their name suggest some immensely powerful beings compared to 'regular' elementals) and Elders (and even that implies an elemental of some sort of high rank). It would be nice to have something to work in relation to, like some (basic) NPCs that are already finalized, or the map you mentioned several times; I'm really curious about that one :]
Anyway, great to have you around again, Zanz.
Post by: teffy on July 31, 2013, 06:40:14 pm
Post by: zanzarino on July 31, 2013, 06:51:27 pm
The electrum reward is probably going to be
Reward = 1 + NPClevel*2
Triple the reward if elite, double if EM. Master an elite to get X6.
This is pretty much what the arena settled upon: level 10 will give 21 :electrum, level 50 101 :electrum
The money you lose if defeated should be reward/2 (lose to a level 10 = get poached for 10 :electrum)
Hardcore mode could be something to experiment with: if you lose, you lose one of the cards in your deck. (Please refrain from freaking about about nypmhs yet; there are solutions and we will get there if this is something worth exploring. E.g. your card turns into a broken card if rare, and can be fixed by paying an adequate (read expensive) amount of :electrum)
The spin reward will probably be something like
level 0-10: 1 spin
level 10-20: 2 spins
level 20-30: 3 spins (as in current level 3)
level 30-40: 5 spins
level 40-50: 1 upped spin
level 50-60: 2 upped spins
level 60-70: 3 upped spins (as in current FG)
level 70-80: 4 upped spins
level 80-90: 5 upped spins
level 90 and above: 5 upped spins + 1 special spin for rares
All of the above to be reviewed, balanced, reviewed again, then fine tuned, polished and released in the game.
Post by: zanzarino on July 31, 2013, 06:55:03 pm
Has anyone submitted the decks of the former AI3 ?
I do not think so but if someone wants to take the task that would be wonderful, if you do, please give them a new fitting name and add a L2, L3 or FG so that I know who they are.
E.g.
Akebono FG
or Witch Doctor L2
Post by: dragonsdemesne on July 31, 2013, 07:30:14 pm
edit: Just checked, seems trainer is fine, but spectate still doesn't work.
Post by: Jyiber on July 31, 2013, 07:38:53 pm
It might be alot of work, but maybe someday down the road develop a tactical AI? As opposed to what I would call your rush AI. It would open up variation in enemies, because this AI limits strategies that can be built. I'd like to see a AI that favors defense over offense.
Post by: Gandora on July 31, 2013, 07:43:15 pm
One thing I'd like to have for the AI is that it uses adrenaline on the sweet spots of creatures, not those that attack the most with it.
So Frog > Rustler e.g., Archangel > RoL and so on :)
Post by: Marsu on July 31, 2013, 08:01:41 pm
When we're at wishes already though: To be honest, when I look at a lot of submissions from players here, they feel exactly like Arena decks and not like actual AI decks (Who have, in general, way more different cards per deck, for example, and use not too obvious combos often) - I sincerely hope the AI opponents don't turn into a second Arena with decks so cleansed from "UP" cards that not the slightest bit of atmosphere is left.
Post by: Blacksmith on July 31, 2013, 09:18:45 pm
Thanks for your answer Zanz! Being able to directly hear the developer's thoughts on own points is a huge, huge motivation. :)SAme here, remember that these decks might be the ones you will fight over and over again, be creative and make grinding more fun.
When we're at wishes already though: To be honest, when I look at a lot of submissions from players here, they feel exactly like Arena decks and not like actual AI decks (Who have, in general, way more different cards per deck, for example, and use not too obvious combos often) - I sincerely hope the AI opponents don't turn into a second Arena with decks so cleansed from "UP" cards that not the slightest bit of atmosphere is left.
Post by: teffy on July 31, 2013, 09:40:52 pm
Has anyone submitted the decks of the former AI3 ?
I do not think so but if someone wants to take the task that would be wonderful, if you do, please give them a new fitting name and add a L2, L3 or FG so that I know who they are.
E.g.
Akebono FG
or Witch Doctor L2
I have submitted all old AI3s from here (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,49299.0.html)
They are all named "Old AI3 FirstElement/SecondElement/ThirdElement" , or if the AI3 was created later, it is called
"Old AI3* FirstElement/SecondElement/ThirdElement" (not that asterisk). e.g "Old AI3 Water/Death" or "Old AI3* Water/Aether".
The elements related to the decks are the same as in the thread. If an element adds nothing to strategy it may be, that it was not mentioned.
As symbols, I have chosen the most significant cards.
I think, if the old AI3 should get names, the community should decide them.
I also haven't changed the description.
The decks submitted don't have that Hope card, which was added to AI3 later.
Ideas for descriptions:
An old Elder raises up from his grave (Older "Old AI3s)
A young Elder raises up from his grave
A young Elder raises up from his grave
Post by: dracomageat on July 31, 2013, 11:10:56 pm
Hardcore mode could be something to experiment with: if you lose, you lose one of the cards in your deck. (Please refrain from freaking about about nypmhs yet; there are solutions and we will get there if this is something worth exploring. E.g. your card turns into a broken card if rare, and can be fixed by paying an adequate (read expensive) amount of :electrum)Perhaps any lost Shard becomes an old style useless unupped Shard which can be "upgraded" into the unupped original.
For Nymphs, I'd like to see relics reworked. Perhaps something like:
<element> Relic 1
Permanent
Generates 2<element> upon entering play.
For those that can turn into Nymphs and
Ancient Relic 1
Permanent
Generates 1 random quanta per turn passed upon entering play.
For those that can't.
They would have a niche use but still be way worse than pillars in most situations and would really only serve as a card to replace Nymphs.
Post by: zanzarino on July 31, 2013, 11:31:02 pm
You can now test the new NPC's in the trainer:
http://www.elementsthegame.com/trainer.html
The trainer does not look yet anywhere close to what 1.4 will look like, but we need to start giving this new NPC's a somewhat accurate level and some thumbs up (or down... be fair!) so that they can find a home in the new map. Have fun testing!
Post by: Shrink on July 31, 2013, 11:36:39 pm
EDIT: Unless of course, it's something like this >.>
(http://i.imgur.com/72sBTVS.png)
Post by: majofa on July 31, 2013, 11:42:22 pm
Also, so far I'm seeing a lot of 'normal deck' just with 400+hp, triple draw, and 5x mark. ;p (not so original)
Post by: rob77dp on July 31, 2013, 11:54:53 pm
OP updated.
You can now test the new NPC's in the trainer:
http://www.elementsthegame.com/trainer.html
The trainer does not look yet anywhere close to what 1.4 will look like, but we need to start giving this new NPC's a somewhat accurate level and some thumbs up (or down... be fair!) so that they can find a home in the new map. Have fun testing!
- Typo on 'Antlion Farm' in the lore/story (Frarm should be Farm?)
- 'The raged warden' has all kinds of fail happening in the lore/story area... dekc -> deck; cloud -> could; pillar/pends -> pillars and pendulums; BB -> Basilisk Blood; all ready -> already
- 'Elite pesky' had all kinds of :aether and went 12+ turns never using the Aether (was darkness too with devourers so Dev-tal that submitter forgot to add Fractal into?)
- 'King Tutankhamun' needs might -> mighty and punctuation at the end of lore/story.
- 'Leech': 'I vile creature that thrives' -> 'Vile creatures that thrive'; resorces -> resources; it's -> its. (Side note: it is simply a fully upgraded Mono-dark. *sigh* Do we really need that as an NPC?)
- 'Azurea': Aether-mark control-bow. SO many of these in mid-level arena are more needed as NPC's?
- 'The Fool': lore... impredictible -> unpredictable; perhaps 'to play with you' -> 'to play games with you'?
(I will be play-testing some more on NPC's later today and will update this post as I go.)
General comment:
- So far in my testing most of the submissions I have been randomly assigned to duel are just Arena submissions built as NPC's. It is only in beta and I'm already bored with it in so much as it "feeling like a new feature". Hopefully, the decks that make the final cut are scrutinized and not just more of what we already have. /goes-off-to-test-more-to-try-to-encounter-some-of-the-variety
- The deck level setting system seems a tad flawed. Just because a deck has multiple Marks or extra Dexterity or additional HP at the start does not make it harder to defeat. If the rewards are directly tied to the "deck level" then the level setting system needs some real tuning (perhaps win-loss, EM's, game length, etc could factor into it after it performs a few times instead of basing on the less accurate metrics of Mark/Dexterity/HP?)
- The more I test this new feature the more I agree with Marsu (and others) that themed areas wherein each NPC is part of a group that relates the zone (refer to Marsu's series here (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,50573.msg1089987.html#msg1089987)).
Post by: Leodip on August 01, 2013, 12:01:56 am
The reward is going to be based on the NPC level, I'll have to refine the number of spins etc. later.This means my crusader series is out of the question? Because they all are level 74 (4 upped spins), are strong, but not too much, while some of them are relatively weak (only have lot of damage on their side), are built on few card and 1/4th of them are rares.
The electrum reward is probably going to be
Reward = 1 + NPClevel*2
Triple the reward if elite, double if EM. Master an elite to get X6.
This is pretty much what the arena settled upon: level 10 will give 21 :electrum, level 50 101 :electrum
The money you lose if defeated should be reward/2 (lose to a level 10 = get poached for 10 :electrum)
Hardcore mode could be something to experiment with: if you lose, you lose one of the cards in your deck. (Please refrain from freaking about about nypmhs yet; there are solutions and we will get there if this is something worth exploring. E.g. your card turns into a broken card if rare, and can be fixed by paying an adequate (read expensive) amount of :electrum)
The spin reward will probably be something like
level 0-10: 1 spin
level 10-20: 2 spins
level 20-30: 3 spins (as in current level 3)
level 30-40: 5 spins
level 40-50: 1 upped spin
level 50-60: 2 upped spins
level 60-70: 3 upped spins (as in current FG)
level 70-80: 4 upped spins
level 80-90: 5 upped spins
level 90 and above: 5 upped spins + 1 special spin for rares
All of the above to be reviewed, balanced, reviewed again, then fine tuned, polished and released in the game.
Post by: Onizuka on August 01, 2013, 12:32:18 am
I won't have fun against a denial/silence deck, but that doesn't mean it isn't a good deck.
Also at this point 0-10 you actually lose score each time you win.
Another thing: Will you be filtering out decks that don't work out well with the AI? Like how nymph queens won't spawn more nymph queens from water quanta and if a deck basically only has queens and water quanta it would be gone?
Post by: russianspy1234 on August 01, 2013, 01:37:27 am
should i wait to submit, or will submitted npcs be fixed when the bug is?
Post by: Newbiecake on August 01, 2013, 01:57:40 am
i cant seem to get mark of chroma to work, when i start the game, it gets overwritten with entropy
should i wait to submit, or will submitted npcs be fixed when the bug is?
You can submit it and Zanz will receive the deck as having the Mark of Chroma. The Mark itself isn't functional yet when you try to test it.
Post by: Anarook on August 01, 2013, 03:21:16 am
I have to throw this out there...
@Zanz - will you be revisiting and possibly restructuring old code to make future updates more viable
Post by: Annele on August 01, 2013, 04:27:17 am
Post by: zanzarino on August 01, 2013, 04:36:51 am
Post by: zanzarino on August 01, 2013, 04:47:59 am
i cant seem to get mark of chroma to work, when i start the game, it gets overwritten with entropy
should i wait to submit, or will submitted npcs be fixed when the bug is?
You can submit it and Zanz will receive the deck as having the Mark of Chroma. The Mark itself isn't functional yet when you try to test it.
That bug should be fixed now. Your deck is fine even with the bug: you can also test it in the trainer.
Post by: rob77dp on August 01, 2013, 04:57:39 am
I just added a search by name feature to the trainer (refresh) so that you can check how your creation is doing (rating not displayed - yet).
Checking the stats seems to require loading a match against a deck - this will inflate values one way (surrender to back out as was "just checking") or another (playing with a junk deck or unprepared as just wanted to "check in" on the stats). Any plans to make it possible to check the stats of a deck without pinging it with a win/loss/result?
Post by: russianspy1234 on August 01, 2013, 05:08:08 am
did you read the text to the right of the name box?I just added a search by name feature to the trainer (refresh) so that you can check how your creation is doing (rating not displayed - yet).
Checking the stats seems to require loading a match against a deck - this will inflate values one way (surrender to back out as was "just checking") or another (playing with a junk deck or unprepared as just wanted to "check in" on the stats). Any plans to make it possible to check the stats of a deck without pinging it with a win/loss/result?
Post by: rob77dp on August 01, 2013, 05:16:46 am
did you read the text to the right of the name box?I just added a search by name feature to the trainer (refresh) so that you can check how your creation is doing (rating not displayed - yet).
Checking the stats seems to require loading a match against a deck - this will inflate values one way (surrender to back out as was "just checking") or another (playing with a junk deck or unprepared as just wanted to "check in" on the stats). Any plans to make it possible to check the stats of a deck without pinging it with a win/loss/result?
OK - so the thumbs up/down will not count but I was referring to (and mentioned in the post) the WINS and LOSSES. Seems to me those will still count just so one can check the progress of a particular deck. However, quickly checking just now by loading by name and surrendering then re-loading the same deck did not increase wins. It seems the system ignores intentional search-matches but it isn't stated that way anywhere.
:)
Post by: zanzarino on August 01, 2013, 05:27:59 am
I just added a search by name feature to the trainer (refresh) so that you can check how your creation is doing (rating not displayed - yet).
Checking the stats seems to require loading a match against a deck - this will inflate values one way (surrender to back out as was "just checking") or another (playing with a junk deck or unprepared as just wanted to "check in" on the stats). Any plans to make it possible to check the stats of a deck without pinging it with a win/loss/result?
Win/loss are also not recorded if you search by name.
Post by: Theboss1248 on August 01, 2013, 05:35:51 am
Post by: Newbiecake on August 01, 2013, 05:49:33 am
Post by: mesaprotector on August 01, 2013, 05:50:18 am
I'll be around a lot for the remaining three weeks of my summer break.
Post by: Leodip on August 01, 2013, 07:53:36 am
Post by: TheAccuso on August 01, 2013, 07:56:18 am
...bu...am I the only one who didn't understand how to play against NPCs?You prbably need to refresh the page, else it won't update.
"Capoccione" :D
Post by: Dragoon on August 01, 2013, 08:05:14 am
Post by: Leodip on August 01, 2013, 08:09:54 am
Did so, and with ctrl+F5, too....bu...am I the only one who didn't understand how to play against NPCs?You prbably need to refresh the page, else it won't update.
"Capoccione" :D
EDIT: dang, the moment I finished writing this, it finally properly refreshed it.
"stupido" D:
Post by: Kamietsu on August 01, 2013, 08:27:55 am
Are newly submitted NPCs automatically added to the trainer?
Yes they are. I just made some new ones, submitted them and found them in the trainer.
Post by: Nox on August 01, 2013, 08:58:04 am
Post by: Atico on August 01, 2013, 09:38:22 am
I think that we need something new in card system...
Post by: TheonlyrealBeef on August 01, 2013, 09:52:04 am
- 'Elite pesky' had all kinds of :aether and went 12+ turns never using the Aether (was darkness too with devourers so Dev-tal that submitter forgot to add Fractal into?)Just a bad draw, I assure you :p
And awesome stuff: being able to see these decks and their stats and all.
Oh: I'm having the problem that decks with triple draw I face never draw more than 1 card at a time while testing in trainer.
Post by: dragtom on August 01, 2013, 10:37:07 am
what is going to happen to oracle's fg prediction?
Post by: Marsu on August 01, 2013, 10:45:14 am
If one surrenders the game, the win for the deck and thumbs up/down should not count. (And I don't mean when searching for a specific deck as was discussed here already, but when actually playing a random deck.) The problem is that, due to the rather low amount of decks, I fought against certain decks 2 or 3 times already. It's not representative if that counts as 3 wins and 3 thumbs up (or down).
On another note, the level system still is confusing and I would ask anyone rating decks not to include that into their rating. Imo, if a well built mono Life is level 30, then an unupped single mark single draw 20 HP deck can't be >level 10, but I see that quite alot.
Post by: Blacksmith on August 01, 2013, 10:49:42 am
perhaps this has been asked already, but it is 15 pages already:I think that the question been asked but never answered, among with many other questions. I guess that only time could tell since nothing is set in stone yet.
what is going to happen to oracle's fg prediction?
One small thing that should be fixed asap:I think that every deck rise in lv when win and lose lv when lose. This means that is will be more balanced in time, I hope.
If one surrenders the game, the win for the deck and thumbs up/down should not count. (And I don't mean when searching for a specific deck as was discussed here already, but when actually playing a random deck.) The problem is that, due to the rather low amount of decks, I fought against certain decks 2 or 3 times already. It's not representative if that counts as 3 wins and 3 thumbs up (or down).
On another note, the level system still is confusing and I would ask anyone rating decks not to include that into their rating. Imo, if a well built mono Life is level 30, then an unupped single mark single draw 20 HP deck can't be >level 10, but I see that quite alot.
Post by: Acsabi44 on August 01, 2013, 12:38:43 pm
Just a bad draw, I assure you :pTORB!!! You're back!!
And awesome stuff: being able to see these decks and their stats and all.
Oh: I'm having the problem that decks with triple draw I face never draw more than 1 card at a time while testing in trainer.
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Post by: BeefSupreme on August 01, 2013, 12:49:05 pm
I see. One Beef isn't good enough for you? :'(Just a bad draw, I assure you :pTORB!!! You're back!!
And awesome stuff: being able to see these decks and their stats and all.
Oh: I'm having the problem that decks with triple draw I face never draw more than 1 card at a time while testing in trainer.
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
(http://www.biblelife.org/beef-porterhouse.jpg)
Post by: russianspy1234 on August 01, 2013, 01:53:52 pm
Ugh the quality of some of these decks are just...meh. There's this one called Pistol Pete and the description is literally "hi i'm pistol pete and i can shooting rapidly". Some don't even have descriptions lol. And level >Level 80 decks, don't even get me started on how they're all Vampire/Miracle stalls with 500 HP+ decks. How are these decks going to be chosen to be implemented Zanz? :Sshoot... i didnt notice the description field.
will it be possible to fix it? or maybe delete and resubmit? most of the ones I submitted were pretty obvious but there's one I do care about and would like to add a description to... although it seems that between the beastiary and trainer, there is no way to really claim your creation...
Post by: Keeps on August 01, 2013, 02:11:39 pm
Quote
Ugh the quality of some of these decks are just...meh. There's this one called Pistol Pete and the description is literally "hi i'm pistol pete and i can shooting rapidly". Some don't even have descriptions lol. And level >Level 80 decks, don't even get me started on how they're all Vampire/Miracle stalls with 500 HP+ decks. How are these decks going to be chosen to be implemented Zanz? :S
That's the point of the downvote upvote system to help clear the signal to noise ratio of cloud sourced material. Even still I've seen several themes, the related AI, etc... a lot of good work, still most I agree are uninteresting, or crap. Also, I've seen some great lower level or midlevel decks rated in 50s through 80s because of the mechanic, and I've seen some pretty high challenging decks in the 30s to 40s. I hope he is using a win loss ratio or something to help shift deck levels over time here. And decks with a - 5 downvotes rating are less likely to get pulled to help filter this out.
Post by: Fippe94 on August 01, 2013, 02:17:09 pm
Post by: russianspy1234 on August 01, 2013, 02:51:30 pm
Mark multiplier doesn't work for me, it just defaults to 1x when I'm testing the deck.you sure its not a graphics bug? i noticed once that even though the mark looked normal, the AI was still getting 3x
Post by: Fippe94 on August 01, 2013, 02:53:59 pm
EDIT: Ok, I submitted, and it works correctly in the trainer, but in the NPC creator it didn't work.
Post by: zanzarino on August 01, 2013, 04:49:08 pm
I removed all the decks that had a near 100% negative rating and 436 decks are left.
Please ignore the level, at the moment it means next to nothing, they are still being adjusted. the more we test the decks the more those levels will have meaning.
The most thumbed up deck of the day are: Cedric, Squire and Gale with a 100% positive feedback.
As we keep the good decks and get rid of the not-so-good ones the NPC's in the database will get more and more interesting, so do not give up if right now the quality is not there yet: if you find something that does not belong in our bestiary give it a thumb down so that I know that it needs to be removed.
Post by: zanzarino on August 01, 2013, 04:52:14 pm
Post by: BeefSupreme on August 01, 2013, 05:00:59 pm
Also.... what do we think about the decks in the wiki? I saw some great ones in the featured articles....is the wiki even being updated?
Post by: russianspy1234 on August 01, 2013, 05:03:50 pm
Thank you for all of the submissions!
I removed all the decks that had a near 100% negative rating and 436 decks are left.
Please ignore the level, at the moment it means next to nothing, they are still being adjusted. the more we test the decks the more those levels will have meaning.
The most thumbed up deck of the day are: Cedric, Squire and Gale with a 100% positive feedback.
As we keep the good decks and get rid of the not-so-good ones the NPC's in the database will get more and more interesting, so do not give up if right now the quality is not there yet: if you find something that does not belong in our bestiary give it a thumb down so that I know that it needs to be removed.
can we get a no vote option? ive had a few games that i won or lost way too quickly to vote effectively on how creative the deck is. even surrendering without a duel forces you to vote...
Post by: zanzarino on August 01, 2013, 05:06:51 pm
Thank you for all of the submissions!
I removed all the decks that had a near 100% negative rating and 436 decks are left.
Please ignore the level, at the moment it means next to nothing, they are still being adjusted. the more we test the decks the more those levels will have meaning.
The most thumbed up deck of the day are: Cedric, Squire and Gale with a 100% positive feedback.
As we keep the good decks and get rid of the not-so-good ones the NPC's in the database will get more and more interesting, so do not give up if right now the quality is not there yet: if you find something that does not belong in our bestiary give it a thumb down so that I know that it needs to be removed.
can we get a no vote option? ive had a few games that i won or lost way too quickly to vote effectively on how creative the deck is. even surrendering without a duel forces you to vote...
Do not vote and click "menu" instead.
Post by: russianspy1234 on August 01, 2013, 05:24:32 pm
Thank you for all of the submissions!
I removed all the decks that had a near 100% negative rating and 436 decks are left.
Please ignore the level, at the moment it means next to nothing, they are still being adjusted. the more we test the decks the more those levels will have meaning.
The most thumbed up deck of the day are: Cedric, Squire and Gale with a 100% positive feedback.
As we keep the good decks and get rid of the not-so-good ones the NPC's in the database will get more and more interesting, so do not give up if right now the quality is not there yet: if you find something that does not belong in our bestiary give it a thumb down so that I know that it needs to be removed.
can we get a no vote option? ive had a few games that i won or lost way too quickly to vote effectively on how creative the deck is. even surrendering without a duel forces you to vote...
Do not vote and click "menu" instead.
ahh right, arena has trained me against doing that.
Post by: Nox on August 01, 2013, 05:53:02 pm
Here's basically what's going on; I go to make a guy. That's all fine and dandy.
Now I go to test him...
That's when problems start. His quanta from mark is always one before submission. I've tried settings 3-5 with no success, it always is one. Someone else addressed this as well.
Any chance of a fix? It's a bit hard to balance quanta supply when one isn't getting the right number...
Post by: majofa on August 01, 2013, 05:53:17 pm
The mark is now staying at x1.
Post by: Nox on August 01, 2013, 06:09:38 pm
Is it still reverting back to 500hp for everyone else? Is triple draw working?
The mark is now staying at x1.
HP still goes up to 900 for me. Mark has remained an issue though
Post by: Leodip on August 01, 2013, 06:19:11 pm
Post by: omegareaper7 on August 01, 2013, 06:27:29 pm
Post by: ColorlessGreen on August 01, 2013, 06:29:42 pm
Am I the only one not able to submit a deck? I try to and it just takes me back to the deck building menu.
Yup, just you. Didn't you see the change notes earlier that said "Players named Omegareaper will not be able to submit decks"?
:P
Post by: jacker on August 01, 2013, 07:25:11 pm
The most thumbed up deck of the day are: Cedric, Squire and Gale with a 100% positive feedback.
Yaiii for my Cedric, Squire :D Please check also Cedric, Knight (level 33) and Cedric, Royal Knight (level 72)
Post by: Rutarete on August 01, 2013, 07:28:55 pm
Post by: Blacksmith on August 01, 2013, 09:27:06 pm
How long do you think it'll take till the definitive update? (I'm not rushing this, it is just a random info)My guess would be 1-2 months before it will be implemented in game.
Is it still open to submissions, or are they closed?It's still open.
Post by: Leodip on August 01, 2013, 09:52:11 pm
Oh, good. I wanted to crazy farm FGs in this time to gain lotta electrums and upped cards because probably new NPCs won't be that farmable. I'd prefer having a good card pool by then, so that I can enjoy the new NPCs at their fullest.How long do you think it'll take till the definitive update? (I'm not rushing this, it is just a random info)My guess would be 1-2 months before it will be implemented in game.Is it still open to submissions, or are they closed?It's still open.
Post by: Shrink on August 01, 2013, 09:58:30 pm
...because probably new NPCs won't be that farmable.
Speaking of this. It would be cool if we could see what NPC we are to face, then by the name, mark, and description we can build a deck and attempt to beat it.
I've never been a huge fan of going into the Arena blind, so this would be a cool fix :x
Post by: rob77dp on August 01, 2013, 10:07:14 pm
...because probably new NPCs won't be that farmable.
Speaking of this. It would be cool if we could see what NPC we are to face, then by the name, mark, and description we can build a deck and attempt to beat it.
I've never been a huge fan of going into the Arena blind, so this would be a cool fix :x
I really do not want to see it work this way - at least not in the current form of it being a new 'twist' on AI2/3/4+FG with seeing which you are about to face. Once per day for a FG prediction already generated threads (rightfully so) for "use this deck vs this opponent" watering down the trial and error and variation. Imagine if you knew which AI4 you were about to face every time... check forum to find proper counter, use counter deck to win, and rinse-and-repeat over and over.
Perhaps NPC stuff will get implemented with enough "twist" to them that knowing which you face wouldn't become a massive deck-switching-to-counter bore but otherwise I hope they are more-or-less random (at least from a set of 3 or so you _could_ face next).
Post by: Blacksmith on August 01, 2013, 10:11:11 pm
...because probably new NPCs won't be that farmable.
Speaking of this. It would be cool if we could see what NPC we are to face, then by the name, mark, and description we can build a deck and attempt to beat it.
I've never been a huge fan of going into the Arena blind, so this would be a cool fix :x
I really do not want to see it work this way - at least not in the current form of it being a new 'twist' on AI2/3/4+FG with seeing which you are about to face. Once per day for a FG prediction already generated threads (rightfully so) for "use this deck vs this opponent" watering down the trial and error and variation. Imagine if you knew which AI4 you were about to face every time... check forum to find proper counter, use counter deck to win, and rinse-and-repeat over and over.
Perhaps NPC stuff will get implemented with enough "twist" to them that knowing which you face wouldn't become a massive deck-switching-to-counter bore but otherwise I hope they are more-or-less random (at least from a set of 3 or so you _could_ face next).
This makes me answer the question, how many different decks per lv will this NPC thing have? 10,20,50,100?
Post by: Marsu on August 01, 2013, 10:19:49 pm
What I wouldn't mind is:
-Sometimes knowing your opponent exactly (Daily quests, Oracle)
-Regularly knowing your opponent roughly (Water area: Deck always includes some Water cards, might be a Water mono, duo, trio, rainbow with Water mark...)
Post by: Jyiber on August 01, 2013, 10:56:00 pm
Post by: Kamietsu on August 01, 2013, 11:01:03 pm
Post by: Jyiber on August 01, 2013, 11:10:56 pm
The most thumbed up deck of the day are: Cedric, Squire and Gale with a 100% positive feedback.
Oh snap, I just noticed one of my decks made top 3.
:D
Post by: Marsu on August 01, 2013, 11:34:52 pm
The most thumbed up deck of the day are: Cedric, Squire and Gale with a 100% positive feedback.
Oh snap, I just noticed one of my decks made top 3.
:D
Is it Gale? Because iirc 'Cedric, Squire' is one name. (I know from testing in the trainer)
Post by: rob77dp on August 01, 2013, 11:35:10 pm
...because probably new NPCs won't be that farmable.
Speaking of this. It would be cool if we could see what NPC we are to face, then by the name, mark, and description we can build a deck and attempt to beat it.
I've never been a huge fan of going into the Arena blind, so this would be a cool fix :x
I really do not want to see it work this way - at least not in the current form of it being a new 'twist' on AI2/3/4+FG with seeing which you are about to face. Once per day for a FG prediction already generated threads (rightfully so) for "use this deck vs this opponent" watering down the trial and error and variation. Imagine if you knew which AI4 you were about to face every time... check forum to find proper counter, use counter deck to win, and rinse-and-repeat over and over.
Perhaps NPC stuff will get implemented with enough "twist" to them that knowing which you face wouldn't become a massive deck-switching-to-counter bore but otherwise I hope they are more-or-less random (at least from a set of 3 or so you _could_ face next).
After reading this again with some time to ponder, I hope I did not come across harshly at you, Shrink. I just know I feel strongly about that subject so I wanted to get that voiced on this aspect of possible-NPC-functionality. I do understand the draw for such a function of them but it would undoubtedly be abused to a point where they would be one "Oracle prediction" after another instead of an adventure with the game.
TL;DR - No hard feelings, Shrink, it wasn't you personally but just your suggestion I was taking issue with in my reply.
Post by: Jyiber on August 01, 2013, 11:45:39 pm
The most thumbed up deck of the day are: Cedric, Squire and Gale with a 100% positive feedback.
Oh snap, I just noticed one of my decks made top 3.
:D
Is it Gale? Because iirc 'Cedric, Squire' is one name. (I know from testing in the trainer)
Correction, top 2.
And yes, I'm the one who made the frustratingly annoying deck known as Gale. That reminds me, maybe we should rethink wanting to display the names of people who's decks made it in. If you do that everyone will know who they hate the most...
Post by: Shrink on August 02, 2013, 01:13:30 am
After reading this again with some time to ponder, I hope I did not come across harshly at you, Shrink. I just know I feel strongly about that subject so I wanted to get that voiced on this aspect of possible-NPC-functionality. I do understand the draw for such a function of them but it would undoubtedly be abused to a point where they would be one "Oracle prediction" after another instead of an adventure with the game.
TL;DR - No hard feelings, Shrink, it wasn't you personally but just your suggestion I was taking issue with in my reply.
Hah, no it's quite alright. I think my suggestion presented something that I wasn't intending. I literally meant the following:
I was under the impression that you would see practically exactly what you see in the trainer right now but on the field in a sort of way. You'd see the card chosen to be the avatar for the deck, the element, and the description for the deck and the name. And the description would include a few hints as to what you would be dueling against. Not all X-amount of decks would be on the main screen but probably get updated and randomized every time you want to one of the various leveled areas. Then you would choose between a handful of decks on the screen to duel. or something similar to that.
I forgot that after so many NPC's were chosen, we would know which ones are which, so countering them would be fairly easy.
At no point did I mean to suggest that you actually see the decks you are going to face, but the descriptions, etc. and then getting to choose the deck you want.
Post by: Raptor6789 on August 02, 2013, 03:19:14 am
Post by: rob77dp on August 02, 2013, 03:40:01 am
Is there any distinction between decks using unupgraded or upgraded cards and the effect that has on the deck's level?
I am noticing that the higher summoning cost of the cards in the deck, the higher the level. I first observed this building a 15-card SoI NPC - upgraded was a lower level than the SAME DECK (same cards) unupgraded. This led me to believe that higher deck summon cost makes a higher level, ceteris paribus, than the same deck unupgraded. To me, this is quite awkward and somewhat backwards so hopefully I just observed odd phenomenon from building such a small deck and the relative un-refined nature of the deck level assignment.
Post by: Keeps on August 02, 2013, 04:19:23 am
Post by: justaburd on August 02, 2013, 05:27:04 am
Post by: zanzarino on August 02, 2013, 06:31:48 am
(http://www.elementsthegame.com/l14.png)
(http://www.elementsthegame.com/w14.png)
(http://www.elementsthegame.com/d14.png)
Post by: BeefSupreme on August 02, 2013, 06:38:00 am
looking good!
Post by: dawn to dusk on August 02, 2013, 06:38:29 am
Post by: Jyiber on August 02, 2013, 06:39:04 am
This is cool, too.
Post by: Rutarete on August 02, 2013, 06:45:59 am
Post by: Marsu on August 02, 2013, 07:11:02 am
Post by: zanzarino on August 02, 2013, 07:14:57 am
Hm... truth be told, I was also hoping for something that looked like a real map with geographical details (rivers, mountains...)
This is not the map, this is what happens when you enter one of the zones of the map
Post by: Marsu on August 02, 2013, 07:24:29 am
Post by: Acsabi44 on August 02, 2013, 07:58:47 am
Post by: Blacksmith on August 02, 2013, 09:15:51 am
Post by: Zergva on August 02, 2013, 10:54:27 am
Post by: Pyrodinium on August 02, 2013, 12:31:53 pm
Post by: yee on August 02, 2013, 12:37:29 pm
Post by: BeefSupreme on August 02, 2013, 12:56:14 pm
I can't wait till we can start testing the actual map. I quess we first need the bestianary completed.
yee we do.
I know that was terrible, but I felt like being punny.
Post by: WexMajor on August 02, 2013, 12:59:29 pm
Post by: Zso_Zso on August 02, 2013, 01:20:27 pm
The quanta x2, x3 etc. is not working for the test deck I am building. How is it so?
It does not work when you test it prior to submission, but once submitted and you test it in the "trainer" then it works as supposed to (x2, x3, etc).
BTW, I wish we could modify the description of the deck after it was submitted. I noticed several typo in my submissions :-[
Post by: Jyiber on August 02, 2013, 10:24:27 pm
I wish we could modify the description of the deck after it was submitted. I noticed several typo in my submissions :-[Same here, strange random letters from typing too fast, spelling errors, and sometimes entirely wrong words...
Anyone else agree that use of forum language should be minimal or absent from NPC descriptions? For example I saw someone "water-bow ftw" and few other times I someone refer to the cards in their deck with our abbreviations and acronyms (eg. SoW, duo-,mono-).
This is me keeping in mind that there are plenty of people who have never been to the forum or ever will be. It also feels out of place, alot of what I think Zanz is doing will strengthen the fantasy aspect of the game and allow more immersion.
Post by: AngelSpirit on August 03, 2013, 01:36:50 am
Submitted two to the server: "Hastega" and "Genesis". Feedback would be awesome :)
Also, a bug: HP is still capped at 500. Or rather, even if you set your NPC to have more than 500 HP, it will be reset to 500 as soon as the duel starts.
Post by: zanzarino on August 03, 2013, 02:07:36 am
Post by: Generation_G34 on August 03, 2013, 02:23:43 am
Post by: CuCN on August 03, 2013, 02:29:55 am
The reward is going to be based on the NPC level, I'll have to refine the number of spins etc. later.
The electrum reward is probably going to be
Reward = 1 + NPClevel*2
Triple the reward if elite, double if EM. Master an elite to get X6.
This is pretty much what the arena settled upon: level 10 will give 21 :electrum, level 50 101 :electrum
Post by: majofa on August 03, 2013, 06:10:45 am
Post by: ioiui on August 03, 2013, 02:42:21 pm
Post by: Marsu on August 03, 2013, 04:14:14 pm
On another note: It says that we can now also see the rating in the trainer now? How? Am I missing something obvious?
Post by: Kakerlake on August 03, 2013, 05:29:23 pm
[...](http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd184/insektenplage/Trainer_zps9f734eef.png)
On another note: It says that we can now also see the rating in the trainer now? How? Am I missing something obvious?
Post by: ioiui on August 03, 2013, 05:46:06 pm
Obviously Zanz' call, but I'd say if it's a very obvious mistake and everything else is great, upvote... but it'd be interesting to hear from Zanz if he's going to 'finetune' most decks, or if the exact same versions that we are testing and rating atm will make it to the game without any edit. If it is the latter, probably downvote. :p
On another note: It says that we can now also see the rating in the trainer now? How? Am I missing something obvious?
Thanks Marsu, you probably need to hit Ctrl-F5 for the rating to display
Post by: Blacksmith on August 03, 2013, 06:33:21 pm
How are people rating decks in which the creator seems to have made a mistake when submitting it? I've been using precognition and have played a few decks that would otherwise have been pretty fun to play except the mark has been left as chromatic or the wrong element, leading to very easy games as the AI can't play any of its cards (Queen of the Nile and Terminator226 I'm looking at you). It seems a shame to dismiss these decks, but they shouldn't go into 1.4 as they are. Should these be rated up and corrected later or down as they don't work?I think this is the answer.
Added rating to the stats displayed in the trainer. If you want to resubmit a deck with improved description etc. resubmit the same deck adding a v2 after the name.Etc. I think that Zanz will remove all decks that got a copy with V2 after. I think someone should make a thread where you could give feedback to NPC decks, I think that would help a lot with these issues.
Post by: treebeard xiii on August 03, 2013, 06:41:30 pm
Etc. I think that Zanz will remove all decks that got a copy with V2 after. I think someone should make a thread where you could give feedback to NPC decks, I think that would help a lot with these issues.there is one already made by majo smith found here (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,50588.0.html)
Post by: PlayerOa on August 03, 2013, 10:52:46 pm
Post by: Gandora on August 04, 2013, 02:33:45 pm
If my deck has 4 Wins and 0 Losses and 50% positive rating, does that mean that 2 of 4 didn't vote and 2 thumbed me up?
Because if two of them did downvote I would be at 0%, right?
Post by: Marsu on August 04, 2013, 02:50:14 pm
Can someone explain me the rating system of the NPC?
If my deck has 4 Wins and 0 Losses and 50% positive rating, does that mean that 2 of 4 didn't vote and 2 thumbed me up?
Because if two of them did downvote I would be at 0%, right?
......the latter is correct. You had 3 upvotes and 1 downvote. 2 upvotes, 2 no-votes would be 100%.
Post by: dragtom on August 04, 2013, 03:21:26 pm
Instead of generating 3 : :rainbow, it generates nothing.
It also appears to be a pendulum of :darkness
(http://i.imgur.com/wPqwAro.png)
Post by: Gandora on August 04, 2013, 04:16:36 pm
I get an :entropy mark, no matter of which multiplier I chose.
Post by: Leodip on August 04, 2013, 06:02:35 pm
Basically, the rate is given by positive.vote/total.vote(in this case, games, because we're assuming everyone voted)Can someone explain me the rating system of the NPC?
If my deck has 4 Wins and 0 Losses and 50% positive rating, does that mean that 2 of 4 didn't vote and 2 thumbed me up?
Because if two of them did downvote I would be at 0%, right?
......the latter is correct. You had 3 upvotes and 1 downvote. 2 upvotes, 2 no-votes would be 100%.
I didn't check the trainer recently, is there a way to know how many of them have voted and how many didn't? If so, it'd become positive.vote/(games-no.votes). This way, the latter gives the number of total votes. Pretty simplicistic.
Post by: Jyiber on August 05, 2013, 05:43:53 am
I have some issues with mark of chroma too.
I get an :entropy mark, no matter of which multiplier I chose.
Has nothing to do with multipliers. It just doesn't work for NPCs in the bestiary period. For some reason it becomes whatever element the majority of your cards are. However, if you submit it and play it in the trainer, Chroma works fine.
Post by: zanzarino on August 05, 2013, 06:44:44 am
http://www.elementsthegame.com/development.html
Post by: Higurashi on August 05, 2013, 06:55:19 am
Post by: Dragoon on August 05, 2013, 07:02:37 am
If you want to take a look at a still very small and still very empty world of elements, click here:
http://www.elementsthegame.com/development.html
It's looking nice. I'm curious, how big will this map eventually be? How many NPCs will you want floating around the map? I ask because if you need a smaller number of NPCs, then I'd probably switch from making a bunch of decks (trying for 1 lower level NPC per non-rare card right now) and focus on fewer more interesting decks.
Post by: Marsu on August 05, 2013, 07:10:46 am
Is the main map in its core going to stay that way? Gotta admit that when I first heared 'map', I was very excited to see something like this (http://www.cartographersguild.com/feature/ValciaMap.jpg).
/e: Like Acsabi said, basically.
I'd like to see a more "natural" map, something like the WoE map, a bit more unsymmetrical and with rivers mountains etc. I thought the map would be a look-down PoV.
I do like those 'platformes' though as areas that you'd enter when you chose to on the main map. For example you move to the Life palace on the main map, and then you have that platform like graphics posted by Zanz and can chose your opponent. I still hope for a natural/geographical look-down POV main map. The combination would be cool.
Post by: Jyiber on August 05, 2013, 07:11:13 am
The art in some areas with the blue sky and clouds background is repetitive. IMHO maybe add something along the lines of Skeletal arrangement like elephant graveyard for death, mountains for earth, and a desert for time. Not that I'm complaining. Just bouncing ideas.
What are in the areas beyond what we see? Higher levels?
Post by: Acsabi44 on August 05, 2013, 09:14:07 am
Post by: Kakerlake on August 05, 2013, 09:32:57 am
If you want to take a look at a still very small and still very empty world of elements, click here:Looks awesome! I can imagine wasting loads of hours playing around with that!
http://www.elementsthegame.com/development.html
Sidenote:
Two bugs jumped into my face while playing around a little:
- When moving to the Life Realm, the minimap shows you're in the Time Realm.
- When coming out of the Gravy Realm, you spawn at the wrong place.
Post by: Submachine on August 05, 2013, 12:42:50 pm
However, I don't get it why would we allow to search for specific FGs without the randomness. The randomness of Fgs were majestic, that's what made them heavy hitters.
Post by: Kakerlake on August 05, 2013, 12:53:39 pm
Post by: treebeard xiii on August 05, 2013, 03:38:23 pm
Post by: yee on August 05, 2013, 05:00:09 pm
Maybe :entropy should have something like Chaos Seed swirling in the background.
For :gravity some planets.
Etc.
Post by: zanzarino on August 05, 2013, 05:38:17 pm
http://www.elementsthegame.com/development.html
As for all of the other details do not forget that this is a work in progress and thank you for the suggestions.
Post by: Marsu on August 05, 2013, 05:41:35 pm
/e: *cough* What I forgot to say is: Thanks so much Zanz, not only for developing all this, but also for staying in touch with us and listening to our concerns.
Post by: EmeraldTiger on August 05, 2013, 05:53:07 pm
Post by: zanzarino on August 05, 2013, 05:55:36 pm
is there any particular reason for the current arrangement? would it be better to have the elements that team well next to each other?
Opposite elements are on the opposite side of the map right now.
Post by: EmeraldTiger on August 05, 2013, 06:04:54 pm
Post by: treebeard xiii on August 05, 2013, 06:13:47 pm
Post by: Leodip on August 05, 2013, 06:20:52 pm
BTW, I'm seconding Marsu, it's awesome when Zanz is around, most bugs concerning accounts, ideas and improvements have a response, that's so good.
Post by: Jyiber on August 05, 2013, 06:48:46 pm
I think that for those of you that expected a pov map (I still have to draw the map, what you see is just a random picture) a switch of view might help seeing the bigger picture: try a hard (ctrl+F5) refresh:
http://www.elementsthegame.com/development.html
As for all of the other details do not forget that this is a work in progress and thank you for the suggestions.
Now that's cool. The size took me by surprise a little. I was excited, now I can't wait.
Post by: Zergva on August 05, 2013, 06:58:11 pm
Post by: Keolino on August 05, 2013, 07:08:28 pm
I really like this megapatch, thanks for everyone, who are helping in it, but how (much) this affects people with slower internet connection?
That´s a good question! Right now, I can even play it with a crashed internet, will that be the same, or will you need a connection to play and let NPC respawn?
Post by: Kamietsu on August 05, 2013, 07:12:53 pm
I really like this megapatch, thanks for everyone, who are helping in it, but how (much) this affects people with slower internet connection?
Well it is a flash game so unless the NPC's are randomly generated through the server you shouldn't need to have a connection at all(after you load the game up and log in) to play. Only Arena and PvP do you need an internet connection for, as well as saving your game.
Post by: Blacksmith on August 05, 2013, 08:05:54 pm
Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes that's way more like it! Yesssssssssss!This^I can't do other than agree. Once I lost hope in you, patch 1,32 showed that you still care but this is just amazing.
/e: *cough* What I forgot to say is: Thanks so much Zanz, not only for developing all this, but also for staying in touch with us and listening to our concerns.
Post by: BluePriest on August 06, 2013, 02:27:21 am
This is such a major change that it pales in comparison to the transition from t50->arena. The people that have been playing for a while have a much bigger advantage than the people that havent been playing as long. This may seem like its the normal thing, but the people that have been playing in the t50 days have a disproportionate advantage to the arena players. I have a feeling (and you could prove me wrong) that the arena players will also have a disproportionate advantage to the 1.4 players. It would require days of grinding to accomplish what was possible back then. Its not so much of an "hours played" thing as WHEN those hours were played. Have you given consideration to this being an "Elements, the Second Chapter" instead of elements 1.4? Perhaps a brand new game submitted to kongregate, and a link to the new Elements that pops up every time you start the Original Elements?
PS
Final request
THERE MUST BE A REALM OF HOLY COWS!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Rutarete on August 06, 2013, 02:33:22 am
PSI kind of want to see this XD
Final request
THERE MUST BE A REALM OF HOLY COWS!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Drake_XIV on August 06, 2013, 02:42:25 am
THERE MUST BE A REALM OF HOLY COWS!!!!!!!!!!!
This would be an entertaining addition.
Will the bestiary be open indefinitely or will it close as soon as 1.4 goes live? Or will it close earlier than that (e.g. once Phase Two starts)?
Post by: BeefSupreme on August 06, 2013, 05:49:54 am
THERE MUST BE A REALM OF HOLY COWS!!!!!!!!!!!There is no cow level.
Post by: Kakerlake on August 06, 2013, 06:43:10 am
Yeah, better make it a rainbow pony land with a creepy background sound.THERE MUST BE A REALM OF HOLY COWS!!!!!!!!!!!There is no cow level.
ohwait, blizzard already did that.
Anyway, eastereggs are always a welcome addition to any game! I'd love to see a Holy Cow part somewhere.
Post by: zanzarino on August 06, 2013, 06:59:23 am
Updated:
Completed dual view of the map.
Added "roll-over" descriptions for palaces.
The current world map is still a placeholder.
Post by: Annele on August 06, 2013, 07:36:35 am
http://www.elementsthegame.com/development.html
Updated:
Completed dual view of the map.
Added "roll-over" descriptions for palaces.
The current world map is still a placeholder.
This is so cool! However, I preferred when the 'Other' mark was just plain, the coloured one, although awesome, makes it seem too much like a proper Element.
Post by: jacker on August 06, 2013, 07:46:48 am
This is a drastic (GREAT) change to elements. Have you considered *puts up flame shield* making this a completely new game or wiping accounts so that they have to start from scratch instead of just updating the current elements?
This is such a major change that it pales in comparison to the transition from t50->arena. The people that have been playing for a while have a much bigger advantage than the people that havent been playing as long. This may seem like its the normal thing, but the people that have been playing in the t50 days have a disproportionate advantage to the arena players. I have a feeling (and you could prove me wrong) that the arena players will also have a disproportionate advantage to the 1.4 players. It would require days of grinding to accomplish what was possible back then. Its not so much of an "hours played" thing as WHEN those hours were played. Have you given consideration to this being an "Elements, the Second Chapter" instead of elements 1.4? Perhaps a brand new game submitted to kongregate, and a link to the new Elements that pops up every time you start the Original Elements?
I don't think is a good thing to start an entire new game, but there is something true in what you say. Maybe the solution could be give a starter deck with the campaign and not make possible to use personal cards, or something else that could make everyone start from a fixed point in that pat of the game
Post by: Leodip on August 06, 2013, 08:02:03 am
Post by: KSmash on August 06, 2013, 08:05:06 am
This is a drastic (GREAT) change to elements. Have you considered *puts up flame shield* making this a completely new game or wiping accounts so that they have to start from scratch instead of just updating the current elements?
This is such a major change that it pales in comparison to the transition from t50->arena. The people that have been playing for a while have a much bigger advantage than the people that havent been playing as long. This may seem like its the normal thing, but the people that have been playing in the t50 days have a disproportionate advantage to the arena players. I have a feeling (and you could prove me wrong) that the arena players will also have a disproportionate advantage to the 1.4 players. It would require days of grinding to accomplish what was possible back then. Its not so much of an "hours played" thing as WHEN those hours were played. Have you given consideration to this being an "Elements, the Second Chapter" instead of elements 1.4? Perhaps a brand new game submitted to kongregate, and a link to the new Elements that pops up every time you start the Original Elements?
I don't think is a good thing to start an entire new game, but there is something true in what you say. Maybe the solution could be give a starter deck with the campaign and not make possible to use personal cards, or something else that could make everyone start from a fixed point in that pat of the game
If I remember correctly, Zanz said that he wouldn't be removing the arena so new players will still be able to use it to grind for rares and what-not and then will be able to use the map in order to focus on a particular type of NPC.
Post by: Blacksmith on August 06, 2013, 08:22:19 am
Post by: Marsu on August 06, 2013, 08:52:33 am
Post by: TheonlyrealBeef on August 06, 2013, 09:06:00 am
But other than that, each bit of progress seems good, keep up the good work ;D
Post by: Chapuz on August 06, 2013, 10:41:12 am
When you travel a bit further than the "palaces place" (more or less in coordinates 100/100), the map hexagons start showing certain symbols. Do they mean anything?
Also, the map has certain limitations (like going lower than X=81) but it lets me go further and looks buggy.
Post by: DoubleCapitals on August 06, 2013, 01:35:21 pm
Post by: Zso_Zso on August 06, 2013, 02:12:40 pm
Post by: majofa on August 06, 2013, 02:35:12 pm
With trainer now allowing 5x mark and 3x draw, could there ever be customizable pvp in the regular game? (not the random pvp1 & pvp2)
This could greatly increase the variety of events we could do for PvP Events and the Weekly tournaments.
I'm not sure how difficult it would be to implement, but maybe something to think about after EleWorld goes live?
Post by: Blacksmith on August 06, 2013, 03:52:12 pm
I like the concept so far. One suggestion: if the current size is representative of what you plan for the final version, then I think it would be better to spread the specific element realms out a bit more, i.e. put them further apart in a bigger circle. This would also allow more space for duo decks to be placed in-between the corresponding element realms.Agreed^maybe even have several places for some elements.
Post by: EmeraldTiger on August 06, 2013, 07:23:41 pm
Post by: zanzarino on August 07, 2013, 05:22:31 am
Updated:
More zones added.
Added map edges.
Refined earth, time, and gravity backgrounds.
Added approx. level per zone.
NPC will hopefully enter the world tomorrow.
Post by: Leodip on August 07, 2013, 07:39:44 am
http://www.elementsthegame.com/development.htmlWhooho, really nice. Let's just wait for the NPCs then. Thank you zanz.
Updated:
More zones added.
Added map edges.
Refined earth, time, and gravity backgrounds.
Added approx. level per zone.
NPC will hopefully enter the world tomorrow.
Post by: The Chosen One on August 07, 2013, 10:19:01 am
http://www.elementsthegame.com/development.html
Updated:
More zones added.
Added map edges.
Refined earth, time, and gravity backgrounds.
Added approx. level per zone.
NPC will hopefully enter the world tomorrow.
so cool zanz! good job! ;D
Post by: Jyiber on August 08, 2013, 02:46:37 am
-When moving across a zone, will you be forced to engage in battles if your path crosses over them?
-If the latter is yes, will all enemies in a zone be visible? (Example for reference, moving through grass in a Pokemon game.)
-Will zones be locked to players for any reason (e.g. new players can't wonder into higher level zones until quests are complete?)
-Where will PvP be on the map, or will it be separate?
Post by: vrt on August 08, 2013, 09:35:34 am
Eh, works.
Post by: Generation_G34 on August 08, 2013, 12:11:55 pm
will it mean that the 60 card limit will be broken
or
Will there be a MAJOR buff for a lot of cards
or even
A third stage of upping
or none of the above?
Post by: treebeard xiii on August 08, 2013, 12:15:36 pm
QUESTION!! umm since there is like an opponent with 1000 HP
will it mean that the 60 card limit will be broken
or
Will there be a MAJOR buff for a lot of cards
or even
A third stage of upping
or none of the above?
the super decks as I am going to call them will either just not get into the game or will be a challenge only the most veteran players will try and defeat and everyone else can avoid them if they want. most likely none of what you said will be implemented as it is basically reworking the whole of elements a complete overhaul shall we say.
Post by: Zso_Zso on August 08, 2013, 01:36:14 pm
Which means you need to seek the high levels at the far fringes of the map, and the 1000HP may not even be possible, or only with very bad other stats (no ups, too few cards, no double draw or mark).
Post by: Chapuz on August 08, 2013, 02:01:03 pm
Also, sometimes thinga like thi happen. Is this mark x2, x3 or x5?
(http://i.imgur.com/awE0lkQ.jpg)
Post by: BluePriest on August 08, 2013, 02:42:18 pm
QUESTION!! umm since there is like an opponent with 1000 HPThey are essentially MEANT to have all the odds against you when you fight these decks. They will have great rewards (and bragging rights) if you manage to defeat them.
will it mean that the 60 card limit will be broken
or
Will there be a MAJOR buff for a lot of cards
or even
A third stage of upping
or none of the above?
Post by: Turlututu on August 08, 2013, 03:19:50 pm
Sometimes when changing screen, or when moving the mouse pointer too fast, Flash will freeze (I suppose from trying to do several things at the same time). I don't know if it's a problem with the game or with my Flash being outdated (I'm still on 10, because my computer is old), but it's a bother when it keeps happening.
Anyway, keep up the awesome work!
(back to lurking now)
Post by: Marsu on August 08, 2013, 04:02:31 pm
- Will there be an option to simply fight a random opponent level x-y? I think many people would like it if there was such an option, as the ability to pick your opponent is something mostly newer players profit from.
Post by: ggabriel2 on August 08, 2013, 04:20:44 pm
Post by: Drake_XIV on August 08, 2013, 04:27:32 pm
Post by: yee on August 08, 2013, 04:47:44 pm
I only see the one under development, but that is the first version, that Zanz posted.
Post by: Kakerlake on August 08, 2013, 05:08:41 pm
Where do you see the new version of map?ctrl+f5 = hard refreshing the page. meaning you won't load the page from your memory (old version) but from the internet (new version)
I only see the one under development, but that is the first version, that Zanz posted.
Post by: zanzarino on August 08, 2013, 05:40:21 pm
Questions:
-When moving across a zone, will you be forced to engage in battles if your path crosses over them?
-If the latter is yes, will all enemies in a zone be visible? (Example for reference, moving through grass in a Pokemon game.)
-Will zones be locked to players for any reason (e.g. new players can't wonder into higher level zones until quests are complete?)
-Where will PvP be on the map, or will it be separate?
If the NPC is higher level then you yes, they will attack when you are moving closer to them and I will probably limit movements to one hexagon per click because of that. If the NPC is lower in level they will not attack (otherwise you would be forced to have meaningless fights with a level 10 every time you need to visit a palace.
Enemies are visible but I might add later on an ambush mode where you will find yourself suddenly surrounded on all six sides by enemies and force to fight at least one of them to get out.
I will probably hide parts of the map based on the player level.
PvP stays exactly the same for right now.
Post by: yee on August 08, 2013, 05:45:13 pm
I have tryed that, but it still the first posted version :(Where do you see the new version of map?ctrl+f5 = hard refreshing the page. meaning you won't load the page from your memory (old version) but from the internet (new version)
I only see the one under development, but that is the first version, that Zanz posted.
Post by: zanzarino on August 08, 2013, 05:45:54 pm
I'm guessing no new art is needed or wanted.
Eh, works.
New art is ALWAYS needed!
I have been particularly bad at reading emails on my old accounts and I do not know yet where exactly we want your sexy art in the new version; I have been using inexpensive (size-wise) vectors for the zones background because I did not want the game to blow up to 10 Mb but once the map is finalized maybe you feel like drawing it? We will discuss this as I get closer to a final version of 1.4
Post by: zanzarino on August 08, 2013, 05:48:55 pm
- Is testing (and voting) in the trainer still relevant? Because decks have been added to the map already... even though it's not the real map yet, so I guess yes, but would be good to know.
- Will there be an option to simply fight a random opponent level x-y? I think many people would like it if there was such an option, as the ability to pick your opponent is something mostly newer players profit from.
Testing and voting is still absolutely relevant!
What you see in the map is pulled directly from the database and voting will make appear or disappear new enemies on the map.
I am going to also leave the deck submission system open, probably even after 1.4 is live so that I can go there and pick new NPC's to keep the game fresh.
Some areas will load random enemies (anything that says Nobody's land at the moment is really loading random enemies of the appropriate level)
Post by: rob77dp on August 08, 2013, 06:24:07 pm
Questions:
-When moving across a zone, will you be forced to engage in battles if your path crosses over them?
-If the latter is yes, will all enemies in a zone be visible? (Example for reference, moving through grass in a Pokemon game.)
-Will zones be locked to players for any reason (e.g. new players can't wonder into higher level zones until quests are complete?)
-Where will PvP be on the map, or will it be separate?
If the NPC is higher level then you yes, they will attack when you are moving closer to them and I will probably limit movements to one hexagon per click because of that. If the NPC is lower in level they will not attack (otherwise you would be forced to have meaningless fights with a level 10 every time you need to visit a palace. I think allowing NPC's within a small range lower than the player's level would be OK - always fighting uphill might be alright but occasional 'stress-free' duels in lower-but-close-to-me levels might be nice.
Enemies are visible but I might add later on an ambush mode where you will find yourself suddenly surrounded on all six sides by enemies and force to fight at least one of them to get out.
I will probably hide parts of the map based on the player level.
PvP stays exactly the same for right now. Maybe I missed it earlier in the thread, but have you addressed questions about "will FG's stay in the game as they are now?"...
I have some comments/questions in yellow, above.
Post by: treebeard xiii on August 08, 2013, 07:13:07 pm
One quick question will the level system for players change or will that remain the same because if it changes then i will probably dust of my alt again just to see what it is like as a newer player with the brand new npc system.
Post by: zanzarino on August 08, 2013, 07:45:10 pm
http://www.elementsthegame.com/development.html
(ctrl+F5)
The map is now inside the trainer! (beta and buggy, but functional!)
It is time for the NPCs to find their true level and their place in Elements; keep playing in the development page and give them thumbs up or down to help in this process.
Note: you get one vote per area, killing 20 times the same mob and giving it 20 thumbs up still counts as 1 thumb up.
Post by: Zergva on August 08, 2013, 07:51:27 pm
I have tried that, but it still the first posted version :(Where do you see the new version of map?ctrl+f5 = hard refreshing the page. meaning you won't load the page from your memory (old version) but from the internet (new version)
I only see the one under development, but that is the first version, that Zanz posted.
Me too :'(
Post by: zanzarino on August 08, 2013, 07:54:58 pm
I have tried that, but it still the first posted version :(Where do you see the new version of map?ctrl+f5 = hard refreshing the page. meaning you won't load the page from your memory (old version) but from the internet (new version)
I only see the one under development, but that is the first version, that Zanz posted.
Me too :'(
I just changed the file names so that everyone gets the new version (besides, a nasty bug was erasing the map data when the deck was edited, fixed now)
Post by: jacker on August 08, 2013, 07:58:40 pm
BIG update on the development page:
http://www.elementsthegame.com/development.html
(ctrl+F5)
The map is now inside the trainer! (beta and buggy, but functional!)
It is time for the NPCs to find their true level and their place in Elements; keep playing in the development page and give them thumbs up or down to help in this process.
Note: you get one vote per area, killing 20 times the same mob and giving it 20 thumbs up still counts as 1 thumb up.
Still, even entering and exiting for an area, always the same 2 opponents appear
Post by: Chapuz on August 08, 2013, 08:05:16 pm
Will our level be based in our score like the Arena?
Post by: Zergva on August 08, 2013, 08:07:45 pm
I just changed the file names so that everyone gets the new version (besides, a nasty bug was erasing the map data when the deck was edited, fixed now)
We all thank you for that (and of course for the patch too :D )!
Post by: zanzarino on August 08, 2013, 08:11:56 pm
QUESTION
Will our level be based in our score like the Arena?
Yes.
Post by: Jyiber on August 08, 2013, 08:23:30 pm
Major, little, or no effect?
Post by: yee on August 08, 2013, 08:38:57 pm
It is working now, going to test it out :)I have tried that, but it still the first posted version :(Where do you see the new version of map?ctrl+f5 = hard refreshing the page. meaning you won't load the page from your memory (old version) but from the internet (new version)
I only see the one under development, but that is the first version, that Zanz posted.
Me too :'(
I just changed the file names so that everyone gets the new version (besides, a nasty bug was erasing the map data when the deck was edited, fixed now)
Post by: treebeard xiii on August 08, 2013, 09:23:47 pm
Post by: ggabriel2 on August 08, 2013, 09:28:58 pm
Post by: Blacksmith on August 08, 2013, 09:31:01 pm
One slight problem: with the current map I don't think it's possible to encounter chroma mark enemies at certain levels. The oracle flats are all single digit level and Nobody's Land outside the elemental zones is all level 30+, so chroma decks in between never show up.True. Remember that this is the first outcast and many things hasn't been fixed yet. Thank you for mention it.
Post by: zanzarino on August 08, 2013, 09:57:48 pm
One slight problem: with the current map I don't think it's possible to encounter chroma mark enemies at certain levels. The oracle flats are all single digit level and Nobody's Land outside the elemental zones is all level 30+, so chroma decks in between never show up.
[/quote
True. Remember that this is the first outcast and many things hasn't been fixed yet. Thank you for mention it.
I noticed that too. I am adjusting the area around the oracle to vary between level 5 and 25. That means that approaching the oracle will be a bit easier from certain element areas but it is probably better than having so many identical areas in the 5-10 level range.
Post by: yee on August 08, 2013, 10:04:08 pm
Post by: zanzarino on August 09, 2013, 04:10:57 am
1. Did anyone added the current false god decks/names, does anyone feel like doing that so that i can give them an area on the map?
2. Out of 1052 NPCs submitted only 70 are water based. Water needs more love.
Post by: ddevans96 on August 09, 2013, 04:14:27 am
Water needs more love.
Yes it does. You should give us a new water toy to play with :3
I'll definitely work on some water NPCs as soon as possible though. Thanks for everything you've done Zanz, this is looking amazing so far.
Post by: Dragoon on August 09, 2013, 04:18:52 am
Post by: dragonsdemesne on August 09, 2013, 04:37:20 am
Two requests:
...
2. Out of 1052 NPCs submitted only 70 are water based. Water needs more love.
Do you mean decks with simply a water mark, or decks that predominantly contain water cards? I'll try to help out; I've built 3 or 4 decks, and I'll be happy to do a few more, but it would help to know which you need. For example, would you want a deck that has 24 fire cards + 6 freeze, and a water mark, or would you prefer decks with mostly water cards, like for example 24 water cards + 6 lightning and aether mark? Or are you looking for decks with -only- water cards in them, like 30 water cards and water mark?
Post by: Nox on August 09, 2013, 05:12:05 am
For a start, a simple unrelated thing: Using the "all cards" button gives you 12 of the weapons/creatures (pharaoh and squid specifically) as opposed to the usual 6. Not sure if intentional, but thought I'd point it out.
Switching the map mode brings the overview one back the center until you move again (I.E. say I'm in water zone. I switch view. I'm still in water zone, but overview says I'm on chroma.)
As I'm sure has been mentioned, level 100+ enemies aren't on map (at least from my experience drifting everywhere up to edges.)
On a semi-relevant note, I had built a water deck (Ocean Overlord), but things seem to not be working out for the poor guy XD
Post by: zanzarino on August 09, 2013, 05:12:42 am
I noticed that the double draw decks are not also doubling their deck size. I'm not sure if that's also the case with the triple draw decks or not.
I just fixed that and several other bugs.
Edit: including the bad things that happened to the 100+ NPCs (you can find them in the right end edges of the map).
Post by: zanzarino on August 09, 2013, 05:21:29 am
Two requests:
...
2. Out of 1052 NPCs submitted only 70 are water based. Water needs more love.
Do you mean decks with simply a water mark, or decks that predominantly contain water cards? I'll try to help out; I've built 3 or 4 decks, and I'll be happy to do a few more, but it would help to know which you need. For example, would you want a deck that has 24 fire cards + 6 freeze, and a water mark, or would you prefer decks with mostly water cards, like for example 24 water cards + 6 lightning and aether mark? Or are you looking for decks with -only- water cards in them, like 30 water cards and water mark?
Just a water mark and whatever else you like in it. As long as the theme is water. Maybe not 24 fire cards but duo is fine.
Post by: bripod on August 09, 2013, 05:26:16 am
Two requests:
1. Did anyone add the current false god decks/names, does anyone feel like doing that so that i can give them an area on the map?
I will put this on my "to do" list for tomorrow evening as well as the AI3 (current) decks. Although my AI3 names might be up for debate.
FG decks will be listed with the prefix of FG - [name] and AI3 in a similar manner.
I'm GMT-5 so it should be within 20 hrs from now.
Post by: Nox on August 09, 2013, 05:30:30 am
Post by: dragonsdemesne on August 09, 2013, 05:50:40 am
Just a water mark and whatever else you like in it. As long as the theme is water. Maybe not 24 fire cards but duo is fine.
Okay, sounds good. I submitted a monowater deck just now, and I did an entropy/water one with water mark last week, so I think I'm over my quota on water marks already :p I'll submit some more if I think of some decent ideas. The bestiary link in my signature goes to a post with the ones I've submitted so far, and my reasoning behind the various decisions made when building them.
Post by: benshi03 on August 09, 2013, 05:55:42 am
plz fix it asap!! ;)
Post by: jarozaoz on August 09, 2013, 10:22:12 am
Im created my own God, Nocturne, upped set of Skeleton/Rewind deck, amazing ♥
Im think, what will be, when will be avalible optional quest "Create your own NPC" ♥.♥
Post by: Zso_Zso on August 09, 2013, 01:41:09 pm
I will put this on my "to do" list for tomorrow evening as well as the AI3 (current) decks. Although my AI3 names might be up for debate.
The AI3 decks are already submitted, I've run into some of them with names like "Old AI3 water/fire".
Question to Zanzarino: would it be possible to combine the NPC system with some random-decks?
E.g. the old AI4 half-blood system was pretty good at generating some fun decks that are not too trivial to beat. It would be nice to see those pop up as NPCs, although it would require some special coding.
Post by: Wolfunit on August 09, 2013, 04:33:30 pm
Post by: Keeps on August 09, 2013, 04:52:35 pm
My first base story idea was something like how the different elements came to be or something that provides a guiding point to the purpose of this world.
What do you think?
Post by: teffy on August 09, 2013, 05:28:20 pm
These are the decks I have added here (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,50550.msg1090014.html#new). They are however the OLD AI3, not the AI3 we have now, and which we got this way (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,10881.0.html). So it still belongs to bripods "To do list" - if not anybody else did that task.
I will put this on my "to do" list for tomorrow evening as well as the AI3 (current) decks. Although my AI3 names might be up for debate.
The AI3 decks are already submitted, I've run into some of them with names like "Old AI3 water/fire".
Adding FGs to the database could also be my task but well - let's bripod do that.
@zanzarino
When new cards and decks come - how will these cards be come into the game as new NPCs ? Will new decks be added after Patch 1.4, or is the database somehow "complete" then.
Post by: courgi on August 09, 2013, 06:14:01 pm
I can only hope there will be randomized dungeon crawls similar to that of Shandalar. Perhaps upped cards as rewards for completion. Very exciting!
Post by: Blacksmith on August 09, 2013, 06:25:51 pm
Post by: yee on August 09, 2013, 07:36:30 pm
I'll sumbit some water decks then ;)
Post by: majofa on August 09, 2013, 08:06:09 pm
I can also help with (or give suggestions on) various themed deck compilations.
Just send me a PM and I'll look it over.
Post by: Marsu on August 09, 2013, 08:30:43 pm
Regarding this:
Some areas will load random enemies (anything that says Nobody's land at the moment is really loading random enemies of the appropriate level)
Very happy to hear that, I'd wish to go a step further though: Would it be possible to have an area where those random NPC's would be 'hidden' until you start the game? For example, you go there and only see a '???' as NPC name. I am bringing this topic of randomness up because I really think most advanced player would wish for such an option from time to time.
(Just not to be misunderstood, I totally love the whole rpg-ish feeling of spawning NPC's that you can attack (or be attacked by, even.) I'm a total fan of that idea of yours, just asking for this additional option)
The following is less important, but a slight increase in reward would fit to those random NPC's. I'm well aware that your idea of the main part of 1.4 Elements is fighting set NPC's you know, so how about this:
-Idea a) Increase Electrum and score reward by 10%. This is barely noticeable and no new player that is too unexperienced to efficiently farm random NPC's will become frustrated at all. The players who do decide to fight those random opponents however at least feel like the few more losses by unexpected opponents are worth it, however marginal the difference may be.
-Idea b) Don't increase Electrum reward at all, but only increase score. (This could be way more than 10%, but doesn't have to be) This way there is really no difference at all for newer players as they always only care about Electrum, while the veterans can feel that their efforts are not wasted.
So, yeah. Slightly increased rewards would be very cool, but the really important thing for quite a lot of us experienced players would be the above mentioned 'hidden random NPC's. I'm looking forward to your reply, and thanks again for all the time you invest, both in the game itself as well as in answering questions and keeping us up to date here!
P.S.: In order to bribe you a bit, I just submitted an additional Water deck. (Ice Wall) :p
Post by: treebeard xiii on August 09, 2013, 10:15:11 pm
Some areas will load random enemies (anything that says Nobody's land at the moment is really loading random enemies of the appropriate level)
Very happy to hear that, I'd wish to go a step further though: Would it be possible to have an area where those random NPC's would be 'hidden' until you start the game? For example, you go there and only see a '???' as NPC name. I am bringing this topic of randomness up because I really think most advanced player would wish for such an option from time to time.
(Just not to be misunderstood, I totally love the whole rpg-ish feeling of spawning NPC's that you can attack (or be attacked by, even.) I'm a total fan of that idea of yours, just asking for this additional option)
The following is less important, but a slight increase in reward would fit to those random NPC's. I'm well aware that your idea of the main part of 1.4 Elements is fighting set NPC's you know, so how about this:
-Idea a) Increase Electrum and score reward by 10%. This is barely noticeable and no new player that is too unexperienced to efficiently farm random NPC's will become frustrated at all. The players who do decide to fight those random opponents however at least feel like the few more losses by unexpected opponents are worth it, however marginal the difference may be.
-Idea b) Don't increase Electrum reward at all, but only increase score. (This could be way more than 10%, but doesn't have to be) This way there is really no difference at all for newer players as they always only care about Electrum, while the veterans can feel that their efforts are not wasted.
So, yeah. Slightly increased rewards would be very cool, but the really important thing for quite a lot of us experienced players would be the above mentioned 'hidden random NPC's. I'm looking forward to your reply, and thanks again for all the time you invest, both in the game itself as well as in answering questions and keeping us up to date here!
P.S.: In order to bribe you a bit, I just submitted an additional Water deck. (Ice Wall) :p
I to like the idea of random unknown npcs adds a bit more deckbuilding prowess to npcs instead of just a counter to each specific deck you would have to build a slightly 'weaker' deck that covers more bases reward increase is unimportant but random npcs are always fun.
Post by: bripod on August 09, 2013, 10:53:06 pm
Each NPC has a filename of "FG - [name]"
Zanz: Please note that you will have to edit FG - Paradox as I cannot add the extra cards that break the 6x per deck rule.
AI3 (current) has been added. Filenames are as: "AI3 - [name]"
AI2 (current) has been added. Filenames are as: "AI2 - [name]"
Post by: rowcla on August 10, 2013, 04:29:39 am
for starters, the way this works is basically making faster strategies more and more irrelevant in more and more places. It doesnt matter if you can do 100 damage faster than any opponent, if your opponent can deal 100 before you can do 200+. However this doesnt really effect slower strategies as much, since they just need to stabilize or even lock their opponents. and frankly, these sorts of strategies tend to be VERY dull to play.
I dont quite see why this was really needed anyway. Certainly, the biggest issue in elements is the repetition and lack of variability, however this doesnt really fix that, certainly no more than the arena did. At any rate, it seems to me that rather than doing this sort of thing, priority would be better placed on making new cards which open up new realms of possibility for deck building. Cards like voodoo doll and SoR have spawned many different deck ideas, which all adds up to more variation in the game overall.
At any rate, the new update forces players into more time on the maps than they should have to, it makes the game clunky and baggy, and overall, worse than the old system.
Although I respect the idea, I must say that i personally dislike it, and are much more likely to stop playing altogether, than increase the amount i play.
But thats all just my opinion
Post by: BeefSupreme on August 10, 2013, 04:36:17 am
I really, really really dont like this update. Having "stronger" opponents with crazy advantages over you isnt really the way to go about adding a challenge to the game. Although its nice to have a bit of that, like it was with the FGs, having it to this extent doesnt seem like a good idea to me.
for starters, the way this works is basically making faster strategies more and more irrelevant in more and more places. It doesnt matter if you can do 100 damage faster than any opponent, if your opponent can deal 100 before you can do 200+. However this doesnt really effect slower strategies as much, since they just need to stabilize or even lock their opponents. and frankly, these sorts of strategies tend to be VERY dull to play.
I dont quite see why this was really needed anyway. Certainly, the biggest issue in elements is the repetition and lack of variability, however this doesnt really fix that, certainly no more than the arena did. At any rate, it seems to me that rather than doing this sort of thing, priority would be better placed on making new cards which open up new realms of possibility for deck building. Cards like voodoo doll and SoR have spawned many different deck ideas, which all adds up to more variation in the game overall.
At any rate, the new update forces players into more time on the maps than they should have to, it makes the game clunky and baggy, and overall, worse than the old system.
Although I respect the idea, I must say that i personally dislike it, and are much more likely to stop playing altogether, than increase the amount i play.
But thats all just my opinion
What people have been begging for more than anything is more cards.
Although this is cool, no one asked for this.
I think the cons of this idea outweigh the pros.
Post by: bripod on August 10, 2013, 05:10:09 am
I for one am very glad to see something new rather than the same old AI0-AI5 decks in my face every time I log into the game. My initial thoughts were that the new interface would help new players learn more about how to counter decks rather than rely on some posted uber-deck that had an astronomical win rate...
Yes, I got my butt kicked but then had the opportunity to think about a counter, build it and then walked all over the opponent that just kicked my ass.
It's just the same old song and dance... New players think a patch is unfair, they want higher rewards for their meager time investment, they want to be able to trade cards or get rares with every AI0 spin, blah blah blah... C'mon... do you really want Zanz to just give you Lvl 80 and a Trainer Edition to start with when you create your free acct?
Do the youth of today feel entitled to have everything just because they registered for a free acct? Where is the sense of accomplishment? Do you buy a video game and the cheat book at the same time? Please... grow a pair and enjoy the game, it's free after all. If you don't like the way things progress go find another and stop bitching about how unfair you think this game is.
Those who enjoy PLAYING this game are very open to seeing how the creator wants to evolve it and have a new path to play with decks created by other players who share the love of this game...
For those who feel like abandoning ship, may I suggest: http://www.hubworld.com/my-little-pony/shows/friendship-is-magic/games
Post by: Rutarete on August 10, 2013, 05:16:15 am
For those who feel like abandoning ship, may I suggest: http://www.hubworld.com/my-little-pony/shows/friendship-is-magic/gamesNot sure how insulted [people should] feel at this
Post by: bripod on August 10, 2013, 05:21:30 am
For those who feel like abandoning ship, may I suggest: http://www.hubworld.com/my-little-pony/shows/friendship-is-magic/gamesNot sure how insulted [people should] feel at this
At least it's a user friendly alternative.... apparently some want that rather than a challenge.
Post by: rowcla on August 10, 2013, 05:42:23 am
As I said good night on Skype to ITR earlier in the evening and I went to bed, I couldn't help but think of all the fun he and I had trouncing around in the new Elements World and I could not sleep... I got up to find negative talk about the upcoming patch...
I for one am very glad to see something new rather than the same old AI0-AI5 decks in my face every time I log into the game. My initial thoughts were that the new interface would help new players learn more about how to counter decks rather than rely on some posted uber-deck that had an astronomical win rate...
Funny, I had thought that arena, pvp and even AI4 would have satisfied that, given that are plenty varying.
I'd also like to point out that players are still going to just rely on a "posted uber-deck" if thats what they want to do, and theres nothing wrong with that. If they dont want to do that, they wont, either way.
Yes, I got my butt kicked but then had the opportunity to think about a counter, build it and then walked all over the opponent that just kicked my ass.
Tell me, how many times did you end up building a fast deck against opponents with 200+ health? Frankly, if you enjoy finding answers to problems in that way, the daily FG that you know should be enough, no? And if it isnt, well, there are plenty of other ways. I personally dont feel it very interesting to build hard counters to decks.
It's just the same old song and dance... New players think a patch is unfair, they want higher rewards for their meager time investment, they want to be able to trade cards or get rares with every AI0 spin, blah blah blah... C'mon... do you really want Zanz to just give you Lvl 80 and a Trainer Edition to start with when you create your free acct?
People are asking for this? Well, thats certainly interesting. I, at least, do not feel in any way that this should be the case, nor have i ever suggested it.
Do the youth of today feel entitled to have everything just because they registered for a free acct? Where is the sense of accomplishment? Do you buy a video game and the cheat book at the same time? Please... grow a pair and enjoy the game, it's free after all. If you don't like the way things progress go find another and stop bitching about how unfair you think this game is.
Well, now im very interested to see who on earth is saying the game is unfair. Certainly, i might have said that i dont enjoy playing against opponents with crazy advantages. But thats more a matter of me not wanting to lose again and again to opponents with considerably worse decks. And naturally, i'd like to be able to play whatever deck i want, without having to choose one that wont just get wrecked.
Those who enjoy PLAYING this game are very open to seeing how the creator wants to evolve it and have a new path to play with decks created by other players who share the love of this game...
I certainly am open to it, however I feel like i am entitled to complain about a patch which i feel will cause a lot lot lot of problems. Particularly when there apears to be no option to use the other mode.
I also feel that people "who enjoy PLAYING this game" are going to want to be able to play a variety of decks, rather than a small amount of decks with the same type of gameplan.
At least it's a user friendly alternative.... apparently some want that rather than a challenge.
There are a number of ways that you can create a challenge without simply giving your opponent more and more advantages that have nothing to do with strategy. At any rate, PvP will always remain a way to challenge yourself. And even if you do enjoy this sort of play, theres still FGs and arena, which pretty much do the same thing anyway.
Post by: BeefSupreme on August 10, 2013, 05:42:30 am
-snip-I'm going to start by ignoring how terribly rude that was.
Anyways, this update just takes the game in a totally different direction. No matter what YOU've done in this game or the accomplishments YOU've achieved, the new players (you know, the reason this game is still alive) will still have to grind to get to the point that some of the more "elite" players are at. This update makes grinding a lot more inefficient, which is really bad in so many ways.
Elements was a challenge enough before, but after this update, I think we'll see the new users for EtG go up a lot, then drop to an all-time low once they realize how much more difficult and time-consuming it is.
It's just great that YOU are getting what YOU want, but is it YOU that's keeping the community running? No. It's the new members of the community that make this community keep growing and breathing, and I just feel like this new update is going to turn away the all-important group of noobies that this game needs. Sorry it's not all about you, bro.
For those who feel like abandoning ship, may I suggest: http://www.hubworld.com/my-little-pony/shows/friendship-is-magic/gamesSince you're trying to add insult to insult, may I suggest this website to you:
http://bit.ly/ID2uiy (http://bit.ly/ID2uiy)
Post by: Marsu on August 10, 2013, 05:48:22 am
When there is so much change, there is always also room for many possible mistakes, so I got my own 99 concerns... but a tougher-to-beat-than-FG opponent ain't one.
a) In the end, there might just not even be actually stronger opponents. You see the stats and think about maxing them out, but maybe they were mainly added to have a 1000 HP 1xMark 1xDraw opponent, or 200 HP 5xMark 1xDraw, and so on. (Especially the former was often requested by the community, by the way) This obviously adds to the games variety, pick your opponent based on for what type of game you're in the mood of - a really long battle? A short, but very difficult one? And so on.
b) These are.... options the players have now. Noone's freaking forcing you to play against those opponents! And before someone starts the electrum/score talk: I personally killed less than 50 FG's... In about 10.000 games. Up until now, the opponent I play most is AI3 (!), with an unupped deck. And still - to end this as I started this - I'm rich like Rush Limbaugh is fat, imagine that. :>
So, back to the fun stuff now.... bugging Zanz with questions. :-)
/e:
Elements was a challenge enough before, but after this update, I think we'll see the new users for EtG go up a lot, then drop to an all-time low once they realize how much more difficult and time-consuming it is.
What the? That's exactly the opposite of the truth. HOW is it more difficult and time-consuming? It is EASIER, how can you even fail to see that? There are level 0-10, 10-20, 20-30 decks and so on. That means there's NO more gap like the one after AI3 before, which is what killed everyones fun, which you would know had you made one or two RL friends join (and see them quit after a time) like me. You're simply confusing the option to go even further than FG's with an increase in difficulty, and that's not true. Rares were best farmed in Bronze before and might now become very easy to farm, because you can just "camp" somewhere where NPC with rare x keeps spawning, have you ever thought about that? I get the feeling you two guys simply want to be unhappy, sorry. :p
Post by: bripod on August 10, 2013, 05:48:50 am
Post by: rowcla on August 10, 2013, 06:05:03 am
b) These are.... options the players have now. Noone's freaking forcing you to play against those opponents! And before someone starts the electrum/score talk: I personally killed less than 50 FG's... In about 10.000 games. Up until now, the opponent I play most is AI3 (!), with an unupped deck. And still - to end this as I started this - I'm rich like Rush Limbaugh is fat, imagine that. :>
As it is, you cant simply choose a vague difficulty and end up with a random opponent though. If you want to keep playing against AI3s, you need to go round everywhere finding all the different decks and playing them, and even then you lose the randomness. Likewise, AI4s and 5s need to be found and selected, rather than have the randomness. on top of this, since you'll know your opponent, rather than just building a general good deck, player's will be more inclined to build the best positioned deck against their opponent, no matter how bad it would normally be.
Elements was a challenge enough before, but after this update, I think we'll see the new users for EtG go up a lot, then drop to an all-time low once they realize how much more difficult and time-consuming it is.
What the? That's exactly the opposite of the truth. HOW is it more difficult and time-consuming? It is EASIER, how can you even fail to see that? There are level 0-10, 10-20, 20-30 decks and so on. That means there's NO more gap like the one after AI3 before, which is what killed everyones fun, which you would know had you made one or two RL friends join (and see them quit after a time) like me. You're simply confusing the option to go even further than FG's with an increase in difficulty, and that's not true. Rares were best farmed in Bronze before and might now become very easy to farm, because you can just "camp" somewhere where NPC with rare x keeps spawning, have you ever thought about that? I get the feeling you two guys simply want to be unhappy, sorry. :p
Again, the map forces players to waste a lot more time there to efficiently do a lot of things. The only real non-time consuming way is to simply build one deck which is strong against a specific opponent, then simply grind that one opponent. Which naturally, is a LOT worse than the previous issue of grinding.
I for one enjoy facing an opponent with 900 Hp and an unsurmountable ammount of power that is thought to be unbeateble... but then again, I am one who enjoys a challenge, not a cheat book...
Likewise, i enjoy a challenge, particularly one which comes down strategy and skill. Rather than luck, time and of course, building a deck which is specifically designed to have as much of an advantage against that opponent, Which incidentally, a lot of people would call cheating.
Post by: Marsu on August 10, 2013, 06:10:22 am
Post by: BeefSupreme on August 10, 2013, 06:12:48 am
I for one enjoy facing an opponent with 900 Hp and an unsurmountable ammount of power that is thought to be unbeateble... but then again, I am one who enjoys a challenge, not a cheat book...Hey, can you stop being 6 for about 30 seconds and talk like a big boy? Thanks.
I have never once cheated at this game and I would hardly consider using rush decks "a cheat book."
What the? That's exactly the opposite of the truth. HOW is it more difficult and time-consuming? It is EASIER, how can you even fail to see that? There are level 0-10, 10-20, 20-30 decks and so on. That means there's NO more gap like the one after AI3 before, which is what killed everyones fun, which you would know had you made one or two RL friends join (and see them quit after a time) like me. You're simply confusing the option to go even further than FG's with an increase in difficulty, and that's not true. Rares were best farmed in Bronze before and might now become very easy to farm, because you can just "camp" somewhere where NPC with rare x keeps spawning, have you ever thought about that? I get the feeling you two guys simply want to be unhappy, sorry. :pFirstly, I'd like to assure you that we are not the only ones unhappy with this update.
Secondly, perhaps this update might bring more ease to farming for specific rares, but I think that the stats for Electrum/score farming will go significantly down after this update (unless zanz does more balancing to how much score/gold is earned with the new update in comparison to what they are now). I just don't want to see all the regulars enjoying the new update while all the noobs get left in the dust; that's all.
And honestly, I would have been happier with more cards than this. It would have taken zanz less time and effort and everyone would have been just as happy.
And lastly, this will change the entire meta to something a lot more stall-y and...boring. I don't know. I've never been a huge fan of CCGs in the past, but I kind of love the community here, so I'm active and participate. This isn't really my area of expertise, but I just don't see the game heading in a direction I like.
Post by: rowcla on August 10, 2013, 06:18:19 am
Post by: BeefSupreme on August 10, 2013, 06:19:17 am
To be honest, i think a fairly good fix for this issue would be to give players the option to switch between modes. I dunno how viable this is in terms of the technical capabilities, but it would work if this was just an option.I like this. Maybe zanz could make it work, but that's up to him.
Post by: Marsu on August 10, 2013, 06:20:07 am
Gold/Score reward won't go down. Wanna bet? It is rather naive to think it would to be honest.
Oh, and the meta won't change because there are tougher PvE opponents, rofl. Again, you can become insanely rich without ever fighting a FG (or something above).
/e: (again) A really good 'fix' - if there is need for one in the first place - would be if Zanz creates an area with 'hidden random NPC's' as suggested by me on the previous page. That's all that is needed in addition, really. Also, I'm going out now, so no more comments for the time being. :p
Post by: zanzarino on August 10, 2013, 06:28:16 am
As for 1.4 in its entirety is way too early to judge it. What you see in the development page is nowhere close to what 1.4 will be like.
For sure using a single deck to farm a single mob is NOT going to be an option, player will have to move and try different zones where new random opponents will appear.
The deck can be changed only from a palace, which means that changing a deck to grind each specific opponent is not feasible, on a few occasions adjusting a deck to beat a specific boss-like opponent is instead possible.
The only zone that is somewhat close to being finished is the oracle (palace excluded) in the middle of the map. I just updated the development page with it, try to farm those mobs and see what happens.
Post by: BeefSupreme on August 10, 2013, 06:30:36 am
-snip-I'm very tired at the moment, so I may look through this again tomorrow and think that I sounded like a complete idiot (which I almost always do when I try to do anything that requires any level of not-being-completely-stupidness).
Maybe I just want to not like the update because I've been growing progressively more bored of this game, which sucks because I love the community and haven't even been here that long ;-;
Anyways, I just like the way things are now and didn't feel that a change this big was needed.
/sleepy time
try to farm those mobs and see what happens.
Hm, okay, so what I'm seeing is that once I've defeated all the NPCs in that particular area, they're gone. What happens if someone goes crazy and beats every NPC on the map? Will the NPCs respawn as you kill other NPCs around the map? Or will it be a daily reset, like the Oracle?
Post by: rowcla on August 10, 2013, 06:32:36 am
The deck can be changed only from a palace
NONONONONONONONONONONONO!!!!!
Please, dont implement that, I understand thats part of your fix, but that just adds to the amount of time people waste on travel, for people like myself who like to build decks then test them a bit, swapping in a tower here or there, and all that, this is going to be REALLY bad. Please dont force us to go to specific locations to change decks!
Post by: majofa on August 10, 2013, 06:38:43 am
If the lack of randomness is what worries some of you so much all I'll have to do is put back those levelX buttons on the side of the map.So, zanz, I'm still waiting to do that interview with you. (For, actually, over 6 months now.)
As for 1.4 in its entirety is way too early to judge it. What you see in the development page is nowhere close to what 1.4 will be like.
For sure using a single deck to farm a single mob is NOT going to be an option, player will have to move and try different zones where new random opponents will appear.
The deck can be changed only from a palace, which means that changing a deck to grind each specific opponent is not feasible, on a few occasions adjusting a deck to beat a specific boss-like opponent is instead possible.
The only zone that is somewhat close to being finished is the oracle (palace excluded) in the middle of the map. I just updated the development page with it, try to farm those mobs and see what happens.
Post by: bripod on August 10, 2013, 06:57:02 am
I for one enjoy facing an opponent with 900 Hp and an unsurmountable ammount of power that is thought to be unbeateble... but then again, I am one who enjoys a challenge, not a cheat book...Hey, can you stop being 6 for about 30 seconds and talk like a big boy? Thanks.
I have never once cheated at this game and I would hardly consider using rush decks "a cheat book."
Lol, I'm almost old enough to be your grand father... time to become a big boy yourself, and face change... ;)
Post by: Naesala on August 10, 2013, 07:08:54 am
I for one enjoy facing an opponent with 900 Hp and an unsurmountable ammount of power that is thought to be unbeateble... but then again, I am one who enjoys a challenge, not a cheat book...Hey, can you stop being 6 for about 30 seconds and talk like a big boy? Thanks.
I have never once cheated at this game and I would hardly consider using rush decks "a cheat book."
Lol, I'm almost old enough to be your grand father... time to become a big boy yourself, and face change... ;)
No need for either of you to be attacking eachother. Calm down. Different people play the game different ways and have different expectations.
Post by: jarozaoz on August 10, 2013, 08:59:52 am
Post by: treebeard xiii on August 10, 2013, 10:00:35 am
Post by: Leodip on August 10, 2013, 10:10:41 am
I think I shall chip in here or this spiel about it being harder to grind I have to disagree have either of you actually played the npcs on the development page with the entropy starter deck (not nearly the best) I played for 30 mins beating low level opponents and made more money in that time then an hour of pounding ai3 with a fully upped rush in fact the grinding will take less time than than you think, and I'm sure when the map is finished there will be more than one of each palace per element spread across the map or it won't be as much a trek to get to your nearest palace so that won't be a problem either. Personally I think your hating for the sake of hating because you want more cards trust me that is not always the best option I play another ccg that gets 7 or 8 new cards every week and that makes sod all difference I still play the same 6 different decks constantly because they are the most effective more cards is not the answer to increase deck options what you need is a way that inspires the use of different decks not more cards.I see that after 30 mins of gameing you lost most of your ",", didn't you? Just Kidding
By the way, yes, I did that too, and I found them crazily profitable, definitely a lot more than what we expected when zanz announced it. That's because there are lots of decks with low health but LV20, making it faster and profitable.
Post by: Blacksmith on August 10, 2013, 10:14:40 am
I think this is much much better than adding 10 new cards or something. Since the meta often consist of more less 10 grinding decks and adding 10 new cards would only make maybe 1-4 new viable grinding decks which wouldn't affect meta that much at all( this is true but for the shard meta, but I really doubt such a series will be made again ). Instead of making new cards that wouldn't affect meta that much he gives us the opportunity to create our own opponents and or own meta. I'm pretty sure that the grinding decks before 1,4 and after 1,4 will be a lot different, especially for the midd lv players. + With all the extra functions like 900hp 5*mark 3dex we gonna be able to make so many different decks it's crazy, we gonna be able to make all those decks who has been to weak before. The biggest problem with arena is that people submit the strongest decks, in this map the strongest deck could be any deck.
Post by: rowcla on August 10, 2013, 10:27:09 am
The rewards themselves dont really mean all that much to me, although its nice to have a bit of extra electrum, i have enough to upgrade whatever i want as is. And more importantly, getting more electrum faster decreases the satisfaction of upgrading cards. its like why the game doesnt just give you all the cards in the first place.
I just want to add my thought into this discussion.
I think this is much much better than adding 10 new cards or something. Since the meta often consist of more less 10 grinding decks and adding 10 new cards would only make maybe 1-4 new viable grinding decks which wouldn't affect meta that much at all( this is true but for the shard meta, but I really doubt such a series will be made again ). Instead of making new cards that wouldn't affect meta that much he gives us the opportunity to create our own opponents and or own meta. I'm pretty sure that the grinding decks before 1,4 and after 1,4 will be a lot different, especially for the midd lv players. + With all the extra functions like 900hp 5*mark 3dex we gonna be able to make so many different decks it's crazy, we gonna be able to make all those decks who has been to weak before. The biggest problem with arena is that people submit the strongest decks, in this map the strongest deck could be any deck.
There are soooo many things wrong with this statement, its hard to know where to begin...
For starters, you refer to "the meta" However there is really more than one meta. with multiple ranges of opponents you have meta decks for each individual area of play. At any rate, this sort of update does not really affect any of that, so...
The biggest thing that elements needs right now is variance. This adds to replayability and gives players a lot more freedom. Even if new decks dont become part of "the meta" it still benefits the game greatly. Adding 10 new cards which are all like voodoo doll, in that they have a lot of potential for deck concepts, could potentially create 100s of new deck ideas. Which the game would benefit from much more than a glorified remake of the arena.
Creating opponents has always been possible, besides the arena, theres even been functions in trainer.
Grinding decks being different depends on where your grinding. This has always been the case in elements, and since the overall concepts of each level does not change, the decks wont really end up being different
I fail to see how stronger opponents mean that you can make more decks, or that they make weaker decks better.
Quote
The biggest problem with arena is that people submit the strongest decks, in this map the strongest deck could be any deck.
Basically your saying that the "strongest deck" wont be the strongest deck? Interesting...
Post by: Blacksmith on August 10, 2013, 11:54:47 am
I dunno about other people, but i dont really care much for the rewards themselves. Personally, i just dont like playing against opponents who have extra advantages and losing to those reasons alone. I much prefer to play around with decks against people with equal advantages to me. Something which is much easier with the current system.And so do I. But since the ai never gonna be able to play as good as a player that wouldn't work. + giving an ai for example more hp makes it able to beat more decks for example rush decks. If all fg's had 100 hp the best grinder would eb a rush deck this would mean that all the fg's had to have anti rush cards that would really decrease the versatility of decks and that would make them week to other decks such as Ug stalls and so on. SO having more hp card draw marks really helps to make more decks different decks for ai.
The rewards themselves dont really mean all that much to me, although its nice to have a bit of extra electrum, i have enough to upgrade whatever i want as is. And more importantly, getting more electrum faster decreases the satisfaction of upgrading cards. its like why the game doesnt just give you all the cards in the first place.
I'm sure that Zanz knows this and will find a balance for it.I just want to add my thought into this discussion.
I think this is much much better than adding 10 new cards or something. Since the meta often consist of more less 10 grinding decks and adding 10 new cards would only make maybe 1-4 new viable grinding decks which wouldn't affect meta that much at all( this is true but for the shard meta, but I really doubt such a series will be made again ). Instead of making new cards that wouldn't affect meta that much he gives us the opportunity to create our own opponents and or own meta. I'm pretty sure that the grinding decks before 1,4 and after 1,4 will be a lot different, especially for the midd lv players. + With all the extra functions like 900hp 5*mark 3dex we gonna be able to make so many different decks it's crazy, we gonna be able to make all those decks who has been to weak before. The biggest problem with arena is that people submit the strongest decks, in this map the strongest deck could be any deck.
There are soooo many things wrong with this statement, its hard to know where to begin...ok
For starters, you refer to "the meta" However there is really more than one meta. with multiple ranges of opponents you have meta decks for each individual area of play. At any rate, this sort of update does not really affect any of that, so...
I don't see how adding a new meta won't affect that besides that you are right.
The biggest thing that elements needs right now is variance.I totally agree This adds to replayability and gives players a lot more freedom. Even if new decks dont become part of "the meta" it still benefits the game greatly. Adding 10 new cards which are all like voodoo doll, in that they have a lot of potential for deck concepts, could potentially create 100s of new deck ideas. Which the game would benefit from much more than a glorified remake of the arena.
I agree with that but the last sentence. Adding new cards is very good but adding a new Area for playing is also very important to do once in a while. For example imagine this game still having T50 and instead of T500 and arena we would have 100 new cards. Even if those cards would make the meta bigger I bet that many players would leave anyway since only T50 would be to boring. It's the combination of adding new areas and new card that makes it more fun and variance
Creating opponents has always been possible, besides the arena, theres even been functions in trainer.
True but even if they are relatives 1,4 will give this creating new decks a whole new meaning.
Grinding decks being different depends on where your grinding.Yes. This has always been the case in elements, and since the overall concepts of each level does not change, the decks wont really end up being different
But that is also true for arena, the ai's and so on. And when having over 1000different decks to play against I'm pretty sure that you will end up having loads of viable different decks.
I fail to see how stronger opponents mean that you can make more decks, or that they make weaker decks better.
Nah thats not really how I meant. There are many combos in elements some are stronger some are weeker. Having more hp etc etc makes even the weak combos viable and in that way it's gives more versatility to the deck building.QuoteThe biggest problem with arena is that people submit the strongest decks, in this map the strongest deck could be any deck.
Basically your saying that the "strongest deck" wont be the strongest deck? Interesting...
Correct. With 900 hp an antlion deck might beat a miracle/sod deck with 100hp. In other words with other things that make the deck stronger any deck could be the best.
At last I just want to say that we want the same thing, variation. But I guess we have different opinions on how to reach that goal. I guess that only time could tell who was right about patch 1,4, maybe we will bot h be right.
Post by: rowcla on August 10, 2013, 12:45:16 pm
I dunno about other people, but i dont really care much for the rewards themselves. Personally, i just dont like playing against opponents who have extra advantages and losing to those reasons alone. I much prefer to play around with decks against people with equal advantages to me. Something which is much easier with the current system.And so do I. But since the ai never gonna be able to play as good as a player that wouldn't work. + giving an ai for example more hp makes it able to beat more decks for example rush decks. If all fg's had 100 hp the best grinder would eb a rush deck this would mean that all the fg's had to have anti rush cards that would really decrease the versatility of decks and that would make them week to other decks such as Ug stalls and so on. SO having more hp card draw marks really helps to make more decks different decks for ai.
The ai isnt that bad, if they're playing an excellent list, provided its not too complicated a deck to play, its still going to be challenging to play against. Anyway, PvP is always an option.
Quote
For starters, you refer to "the meta" However there is really more than one meta. with multiple ranges of opponents you have meta decks for each individual area of play. At any rate, this sort of update does not really affect any of that, so...
I don't see how adding a new meta won't affect that besides that you are right.
My point is that it doesnt add a new meta. Yes there are new opponents, however the basic standards remain the same. A really high level opponent is effectively the same as platinum, and a bit lower than that is like gold, and so on. Overall it doesnt really create a new meta.
Quote
The biggest thing that elements needs right now is variance.I totally agree This adds to replayability and gives players a lot more freedom. Even if new decks dont become part of "the meta" it still benefits the game greatly. Adding 10 new cards which are all like voodoo doll, in that they have a lot of potential for deck concepts, could potentially create 100s of new deck ideas. Which the game would benefit from much more than a glorified remake of the arena.
I agree with that but the last sentence. Adding new cards is very good but adding a new Area for playing is also very important to do once in a while. For example imagine this game still having T50 and instead of T500 and arena we would have 100 new cards. Even if those cards would make the meta bigger I bet that many players would leave anyway since only T50 would be to boring. It's the combination of adding new areas and new card that makes it more fun and variance
Please dont misunderstand, I am not saying that the arena is a bad thing. On the contrary, i believe that Arena was an excellent move that provided a lot for elements. My point in saying that its merely a "glorified arena" is that its effectively the same thing, except clunkier and, well, glorified. As it is, i dont believe there are really any problems with the arena, and that adding in new levels to it would not really support the game nearly as much as adding new cards. At least at this point.
Quote
Creating opponents has always been possible, besides the arena, theres even been functions in trainer.
True but even if they are relatives 1,4 will give this creating new decks a whole new meaning.
Its effectively the same thing as Arena however. Certainly, its still a glorified version of the arena. But nonetheless.
Quote
Grinding decks being different depends on where your grinding.Yes. This has always been the case in elements, and since the overall concepts of each level does not change, the decks wont really end up being different
But that is also true for arena, the ai's and so on. And when having over 1000different decks to play against I'm pretty sure that you will end up having loads of viable different decks.
At the highest levels of play, do you really think that an aggro deck is viable? Anyway, what i was saying was merely to point out that the metas for each level of play doesnt change.
Quote
I fail to see how stronger opponents mean that you can make more decks, or that they make weaker decks better.
Nah thats not really how I meant. There are many combos in elements some are stronger some are weeker. Having more hp etc etc makes even the weak combos viable and in that way it's gives more versatility to the deck building.
Since only opponents get these benefits, i cant really say this is much of a benefit overall. Even if it can be kinda interesting to see oppponents like that. At any rate, again, this has always been the case in the Arena.
There also isnt really much that applies to. Particularly since a lot of combo decks cant be used by the ai.
Quote
QuoteThe biggest problem with arena is that people submit the strongest decks, in this map the strongest deck could be any deck.
Basically your saying that the "strongest deck" wont be the strongest deck? Interesting...
Correct. With 900 hp an antlion deck might beat a miracle/sod deck with 100hp. In other words with other things that make the deck stronger any deck could be the best.
So your saying that when that deck is stronger than any other deck, and is the best. It is not the "strongest deck" despite it being the strongest deck.
Quote
At last I just want to say that we want the same thing, variation. But I guess we have different opinions on how to reach that goal. I guess that only time could tell who was right about patch 1,4, maybe we will bot h be right.
True, I would like to think that my opinions come from long term studying of CCG mechanics and contributors to the growth of the system. However im certainly not one to think of myself as being any authority on the matter, so I cant really say that I'm right, and certainly not that your wrong.
Post by: kaempfer13 on August 10, 2013, 01:20:24 pm
(for example the deck should be welldesigned, meaning that the quantabalance and balance between combo cards is wellexecuted and in ideal case the deck has a little something to deal with most kinds of strategies so that it can always put up a nice fight (which it does not necessarily have to win))
Unlike Arenadecks, where the win rate is the only thing that matters, bestiarydecks are intended to lose every now and then, unless they have got a really high lvl in which case it is rendered impossible to beat the deck and the one who does shall get huge rewards.@rowcla you keep stating that rush decks are not going to be viable farm decks.
2 things: 1. rush decks are quite commonly used to beat Gold decks, so I guess they do work against opponents with increased hp.
2. It is possible to submit decks which have benefits such as double draw and additional mark power, but pay for that with decreased hp. Those are probably easy to rush.
Post by: treebeard xiii on August 10, 2013, 02:18:56 pm
Post by: Chapuz on August 10, 2013, 04:03:46 pm
Do you suggest the community submit decks with Shards for the AIs?
If yes, any level restriction? (i.e decks with shards only for levels 60+)
Post by: Zergva on August 10, 2013, 06:25:23 pm
Double the amount of cards (if it's actually possible or just ignore it, the second part is the important) and instead of taking them in the Bazaar, spread them through the AI-s. :D Some of them can be taken from the weaker AI-s and there will be some, what can be achieved REALLY hard (but as I see). I don't suggest that lvl80+ AI-s should get OP cards, while weak AI-s bad cards, I just saying something similar as nymphs (just not ultra-rare, just medium-rare). So if you have the "Cucumbershot" card from AI lvl1414 what gives you 1 Hp/turn that doesn't worth much, but gives you the feeling that you've got this card in a heavy battle.
I don't know if it have been said clearly.
Post by: Jyiber on August 10, 2013, 08:54:27 pm
I think 1.4 will be a success, and all growing fears about it are completely unfounded. IMHO because you don't see the bigger picture.
Rushes are not going to be useless, after much grinding, I've found that they work as good as before.
Before you become concerned about all the AIs having too much health and other bonuses, remember that there will be plenty of variety. I think part of the lack of AI3 leveled decks is that people are having too much fun submitting powerful decks. If that's your concern, go to the bestiary and submit a bunch of good 100hp unupped decks with no bonuses. I think we need a few anyways.
Making the map inefficient being bad is an opinion based statement, because I find exploration to be 10x more fun (also an opinion).
Post by: ioiui on August 10, 2013, 09:57:18 pm
I would however be dubious as to only being able to change your deck in a palace, as I can see myself spending a lot of time traveling back and forth between the higher level areas at the edge of the map and the palace just so I can adjust pillars/cards and test them at the appropriate level. If you wanted to stop someone using a specific deck to beat a mob, then don't have a mob of the same enemy - make the opponents in the map area you occupy reset after a battle or have a greater variety of enemies within one map tile so you can't easily fight the same enemy twice in succession. If you still insist on only changing your deck in a palace, at least include some sort of fast travel or similar.
Zanz: On a separate note I've noticed there are a few bugs in the bestiary/trainer it would be nice if you could fix.
1) The mark in the bestiary is bugged so that multiple marks play as single marks when testing decks pre submission, I think others have already pointed this one out
2) Triple dexterity is bugged in that it works when testing in the bestiary but when playing it in the trainer it uses single draw with a deck that's three times the size of the original deck, which hurts even more than if it simply didn't work (see "Ninja" deck for an example).
It would be great if you could fix both of these as its quite difficult to gauge atm how a deck is actually going to perform once its submitted, thank you.
Post by: Keeps on August 11, 2013, 12:40:22 am
Additional expansions can be made on the map as necessary, the home base towers can be utilized to setup arena, different dynamics, and events in game. Having the NPCs also allows for story structure and quests. Of course it's not there yet, but it allows for a game to be continuously having things to do.
This can handle the single player element of the game.
Additional cards, pvp events as well as scoreboards to rank players is needed for the multiplayer element, but we can wait until 1.5.
I for one am happy with what's going on here. Not for where 1.4 might be, but where 1.5 or 1.6 will be.
Post by: Blacksmith on August 11, 2013, 09:21:21 am
I'm all in favour of 1.4, as there will be a greater variety of intelligent decks (once the wheat and chaff have been sorted) and potential for themed quests sounds great. I would like to be able to win upgraded non rare cards by fighting strong enemies as I think there's more sense of achievement than spending money to upgrade stuff. E.g. for level 60+ish decks make all the spins give upgraded cards, not just the special spin like it was in the arena.ioiul I guess you haven't read this.
I would however be dubious as to only being able to change your deck in a palace, as I can see myself spending a lot of time traveling back and forth between the higher level areas at the edge of the map and the palace just so I can adjust pillars/cards and test them at the appropriate level. If you wanted to stop someone using a specific deck to beat a mob, then don't have a mob of the same enemy - make the opponents in the map area you occupy reset after a battle or have a greater variety of enemies within one map tile so you can't easily fight the same enemy twice in succession. If you still insist on only changing your deck in a palace, at least include some sort of fast travel or similar.
Zanz: On a separate note I've noticed there are a few bugs in the bestiary/trainer it would be nice if you could fix.
1) The mark in the bestiary is bugged so that multiple marks play as single marks when testing decks pre submission, I think others have already pointed this one out
2) Triple dexterity is bugged in that it works when testing in the bestiary but when playing it in the trainer it uses single draw with a deck that's three times the size of the original deck, which hurts even more than if it simply didn't work (see "Ninja" deck for an example).
It would be great if you could fix both of these as its quite difficult to gauge atm how a deck is actually going to perform once its submitted, thank you.
The spin reward will probably be something like
level 0-10: 1 spin
level 10-20: 2 spins
level 20-30: 3 spins (as in current level 3)
level 30-40: 5 spins
level 40-50: 1 upped spin
level 50-60: 2 upped spins
level 60-70: 3 upped spins (as in current FG)
level 70-80: 4 upped spins
level 80-90: 5 upped spins
level 90 and above: 5 upped spins + 1 special spin for rares
About the palace thingy, I think we shall wait with criticism about that until it actually been implemented in the development testing.
level 0-10: 1 spin
level 10-20: 2 spins
level 20-30: 3 spins (as in current level 3)
level 30-40: 5 spins
level 40-50: 1 upped spin
level 50-60: 2 upped spins
level 60-70: 3 upped spins (as in current FG)
level 70-80: 4 upped spins
level 80-90: 5 upped spins
level 90 and above: 5 upped spins + 1 special spin for rares
Post by: Daguerreo on August 11, 2013, 02:48:33 pm
Post by: smallanimal on August 11, 2013, 02:59:23 pm
Post by: vrt on August 11, 2013, 06:58:52 pm
New art is ALWAYS needed!
I have been particularly bad at reading emails on my old accounts and I do not know yet where exactly we want your sexy art in the new version; I have been using inexpensive (size-wise) vectors for the zones background because I did not want the game to blow up to 10 Mb but once the map is finalized maybe you feel like drawing it? We will discuss this as I get closer to a final version of 1.4
Haha, alright. Just send me an email at vrt@vrt-designs.com when you have an idea of what you need/want for the new patch. Also, have a glance over here (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,41611.0.html) >.>
Post by: Gandora on August 11, 2013, 07:11:12 pm
Last time it had 8 Wins and 0 Losses, now it says 'no data yet'.
I'm wondering if my deck was the only one who suffers a reset of stats? :)
And also if anyone knows what could be the reason.
Post by: treebeard xiii on August 11, 2013, 07:18:32 pm
So, I just checked up my NPC in trainer.
Last time it had 8 Wins and 0 Losses, now it says 'no data yet'.
I'm wondering if my deck was the only one who suffers a reset of stats? :)
And also if anyone knows what could be the reason.
I've had that as well not sure why but might have something to do with a voting phase when certain npcs are removed the reset them all to start the processs again but i'm not sure
Post by: Atico on August 11, 2013, 07:58:08 pm
Second problem - a lot of games = a lot of spins (especially in 1.4, when I can win 4-5 spins). Spins are always waste our time, and a lot of players avoid it. I think that after each game Player should choose one card from 2/3/4/5 copies. Or if You didn't want this change, please add cumulating of spins. Then we will cumulate spins, go for a dinner and draw a cards ;)
Post by: Marsu on August 11, 2013, 08:25:25 pm
@zanz - Arts and maps looks fantastic, but they aren't intuitional. Version 2D would be much better. In 3D I wanted to click into circle with deck card, not on a hexagon. What is more - cards hide a lot of hexagons. For me deck card must be in hexagon... Think about it.[...]
The first point is not too relevant. I made that mistake too... the first 20 seconds. And never again. So it's totally fine.
I agree however on the second point, some fields are a bit hidden by NPC descriptions and harder to click. That should probably somehow be worked on.
Post by: zanzarino on August 11, 2013, 08:46:50 pm
So, I just checked up my NPC in trainer.
Last time it had 8 Wins and 0 Losses, now it says 'no data yet'.
I'm wondering if my deck was the only one who suffers. reset of stats? :)
And also if anyone knows what could be the reason.
When a NPC wins more than 50% of the games or less than 10% its level is changed accordingly, it is moved to a new area and its win/loss stats are reset. The rating is not reset but the % is not displayed until a few more games are played against the NPC in the new area.
Post by: Jyiber on August 11, 2013, 08:47:36 pm
@zanz - Arts and maps looks fantastic, but they aren't intuitional. Version 2D would be much better. In 3D I wanted to click into circle with deck card, not on a hexagon. What is more - cards hide a lot of hexagons. For me deck card must be in hexagon... Think about it.[...]
The first point is not too relevant. I made that mistake too... the first 20 seconds. And never again. So it's totally fine.
I agree however on the second point, some fields are a bit hidden by NPC descriptions and harder to click. That should probably somehow be worked on.
Or tilt the angle slightly. I like the 3d version, but I agree on the counter intuitive part. I figured it out immediately of coarse, but it still feels weird.
Post by: Chapuz on August 11, 2013, 10:23:56 pm
please fix the Chat button in the development page, it links to the wrong link :P
Post by: Marsu on August 13, 2013, 12:25:51 pm
For example, is it still possible to search for specific decks in the trainer? What happens to NPC's that we submit from now on, will they instantly appear on the map or do we have to wait for an update? And will the choices for a "Quick match" be replaced with level 0-10, 10-20 and so on until 1.4 goes live?
Thanks in advance.
Post by: DoubleCapitals on August 13, 2013, 01:20:11 pm
So... huge update in trainer? Can we get a comment on that, Zanz?^^
For example, is it still possible to search for specific decks in the trainer? What happens to NPC's that we submit from now on, will they instantly appear on the map or do we have to wait for an update? And will the choices for a "Quick match" be replaced with level 0-10, 10-20 and so on until 1.4 goes live?
Thanks in advance.
For me, I created my NPC and soon after I tabbed back into the trainer and my NPC was already in.
Post by: ColorlessGreen on August 13, 2013, 03:04:07 pm
And will the choices for a "Quick match" be replaced with level 0-10, 10-20 and so on until 1.4 goes live?
I would love to see a NPC coliseum or something similar in the final release which just allowed you to select from a choice of level ranges and fight random NPCs from that range.
Post by: bripod on August 13, 2013, 04:21:22 pm
And will the choices for a "Quick match" be replaced with level 0-10, 10-20 and so on until 1.4 goes live?
I would love to see a NPC coliseum or something similar in the final release which just allowed you to select from a choice of level ranges and fight random NPCs from that range.
Wouldn't that be Arena? ;)
Post by: ColorlessGreen on August 13, 2013, 04:47:38 pm
And will the choices for a "Quick match" be replaced with level 0-10, 10-20 and so on until 1.4 goes live?
I would love to see a NPC coliseum or something similar in the final release which just allowed you to select from a choice of level ranges and fight random NPCs from that range.
Wouldn't that be Arena? ;)
Yes, if arena was populated by the AI NPCs instead of people's submitted decks and if arena didn't have the NPC decks go up and down in rating and if arena didn't have the NPC decks decay in HP over time.
So, no, it's a lot more like AI3/AI4/FG/etc (with the tiny bit of "story" of it being a coliseum or whatever to let it fit into the map), which is exactly what I was hoping it would be a substitute for.
Post by: majofa on August 13, 2013, 09:59:26 pm
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/board,393.0.html
Post by: zanzarino on August 13, 2013, 11:19:57 pm
We need more new cards.....
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/board,393.0.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnA3C9Af_oc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnA3C9Af_oc)
"Right, right; I follow you"
More cards will come, have faith.
Post by: Wolfunit on August 14, 2013, 12:39:50 am
Post by: Jyiber on August 14, 2013, 01:54:41 am
Post by: Mathematistic on August 14, 2013, 06:16:50 am
We need more new cards.....
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/board,393.0.html
No we don't. Instead, we need to think of (non-buff) ways that old cards will be useful. Well, the Pareto principle has been quite true in a lot of things, especially in elements card usage. My approximation is that 20% of the cards are used 80% of the time. The real figure might be less uneven, but around half of the cards are seldom touched (if at all, see Antlion) and a quarter of them are niche cards. Adding a new card is essentially gambling development time for a chance in 1 extra card in meta. I'm all for elements moving forward, but adding new cards is not the efficient way.
Instead, I would suggest Deckbuilding from (at least partially) Random Cardpools. A new interface could be developed for that. From what I observe, new interfaces are generally very, very successful. Arena changed elements a whole lot. So will this AI grind revamp. Also, cards need to be more fulfilling to get, too. Releasing a card that goes straight to bazaar or have players to grind arena *insert number* times to rarespin it out isn't that fulfilling of an experience. I noticed something in the new interface that says "reputation with this element". In addition to special marks, maybe we could buy special cards with this reputation? That would be a good way to implement new cards, instead of the common/rare/nymph threefold division.
Pardon my organisation. But my main points are:
1. Make grinding fun. RPG-styled grinding feels less tedious than matching up with random AIs.
2. Making new cards isn't all that necessary. But, if you decide to make new cards, make sure there are special ways to obtain them (especially in the new interface), so that in addition to the metagame improvement gamble you can enhance your new interface.
3. New interfaces are good. We should be seeing more and better interfaces. Think about it this way. An interface is where you use the cards. One new interface is a new way to play elements. The improvement it brings is immense.
4. Think of ways to make unused cards useful. Elements has a lot of cards, yet quite a large batch of them are underused placeholders. Mass-buffing is bottomless pit (in fear of powercreep), so I wouldn't suggest it. Making players salvage and build from random cardpools is, on the other hand, a good way to recycle the placeholders into the game.
Hopefully 1.4 will be the AED of elements.
Post by: omegareaper7 on August 14, 2013, 06:21:37 am
Haven't been posting for a long while. Someone informed me about 1.4, and IMO it's excellent. Making grinding feel more like an RPG would help restoring some of the fun. However...More new cards is important for pvp, and long time players. Players get bored with the same few dozen cards after so long. And not everyone enjoys PvE, some only play pvp.We need more new cards.....
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/board,393.0.html
No we don't. Instead, we need to think of (non-buff) ways that old cards will be useful. Well, the Pareto principle has been quite true in a lot of things, especially in elements card usage. My approximation is that 20% of the cards are used 80% of the time. The real figure might be less uneven, but around half of the cards are seldom touched (if at all, see Antlion) and a quarter of them are niche cards. Adding a new card is essentially gambling development time for a chance in 1 extra card in meta. I'm all for elements moving forward, but adding new cards is not the efficient way.
Instead, I would suggest Deckbuilding from (at least partially) Random Cardpools. A new interface could be developed for that. From what I observe, new interfaces are generally very, very successful. Arena changed elements a whole lot. So will this AI grind revamp. Also, cards need to be more fulfilling to get, too. Releasing a card that goes straight to bazaar or have players to grind arena *insert number* times to rarespin it out isn't that fulfilling of an experience. I noticed something in the new interface that says "reputation with this element". In addition to special marks, maybe we could buy special cards with this reputation? That would be a good way to implement new cards, instead of the common/rare/nymph threefold division.
Pardon my organisation. But my main points are:
1. Make grinding fun. RPG-styled grinding feels less tedious than matching up with random AIs.
2. Making new cards isn't all that necessary. But, if you decide to make new cards, make sure there are special ways to obtain them (especially in the new interface), so that in addition to the metagame improvement gamble you can enhance your new interface.
3. New interfaces are good. We should be seeing more and better interfaces. Think about it this way. An interface is where you use the cards. One new interface is a new way to play elements. The improvement it brings is immense.
4. Think of ways to make unused cards useful. Elements has a lot of cards, yet quite a large batch of them are underused placeholders. Mass-buffing is bottomless pit (in fear of powercreep), so I wouldn't suggest it. Making players salvage and build from random cardpools is, on the other hand, a good way to recycle the placeholders into the game.
Hopefully 1.4 will be the AED of elements.
But yes, balance is important, and i'm pretty sure majofa wouldn't want inbalanced new cards either. But new cards with good balance is far from not needed.
Post by: Keolino on August 14, 2013, 07:02:32 am
Unupped most unused pillars: Light Pillar, Sapphire Pillar, Stone Pillar
Unupped most unused pends: Entropy Pendulum, Earth Pendulum
upped most unused pillars: Light Pillar, Stone Pillar, Sapphire Pillar
upped most unused pends: Earth Pendulum, Water Pendulum
So earth and water are, as it is now, the most unused elements in the game (how much they are used in rainbows may be excluded) So it may be a good idea to add one or two usefull non-rare cards for these elements which open up new possible strategies (and of course non-rare, otherwise they won´t change much about how used and "loved" an element will be for the mayority of players (newbies and mid-level-players))
I don´t say that earth or water are weak or something, they are just not as atractive as other elements. (Well Ice stall can get pretty strong with some Arctic Squids (well, they are rare) and earth is a strong rush with some good denial (earth quake and basilsk blood)) They simply aren´t as attractive.
Edit: I made a little mistake, the most unloved element is light (when looking at upped and unupped pillars...)
Post by: Marsu on August 14, 2013, 09:42:44 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnA3C9Af_oc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnA3C9Af_oc)
"Right, right; I follow you"
More cards will come, have faith.
Oh god, yes. That's all we wanted to hear Zanz, seriously.
@Mathematistic: Uhm... you couldn't be more wrong.
Post by: Blacksmith on August 14, 2013, 10:38:10 am
Post by: treebeard xiii on August 14, 2013, 11:37:52 am
Post by: Higurashi on August 14, 2013, 12:33:33 pm
1. Make grinding fun. RPG-styled grinding feels less tedious than matching up with random AIs.I agree this is much more important than new cards. For me and many others who have done everything in this game, the only challenge left is when heavy restrictions are imposed. Imagine a campaign in Elements where you, as an elemental, find yourself in trickier and tricker situations in search of the ultimate power of your Element. Tough conditions manifest in heavy deckbuilding restrictions as you challenge foes on their home field, and as the quest chain advances you gain access to more and more powers, but the foes also get stronger.
Soul Calibur 2 campaign anyone? Kept me playing for hundreds of hours :>
Post by: nerd1 on August 14, 2013, 01:26:23 pm
Anyways, I'm tempted to make a new account to re-play the game from the beginning, honestly.
Post by: treebeard xiii on August 14, 2013, 01:26:44 pm
1. Make grinding fun. RPG-styled grinding feels less tedious than matching up with random AIs.I agree this is much more important than new cards. For me and many others who have done everything in this game, the only challenge left is when heavy restrictions are imposed. Imagine a campaign in Elements where you, as an elemental, find yourself in trickier and tricker situations in search of the ultimate power of your Element. Tough conditions manifest in heavy deckbuilding restrictions as you challenge foes on their home field, and as the quest chain advances you gain access to more and more powers, but the foes also get stronger.
Soul Calibur 2 campaign anyone? Kept me playing for hundreds of hours :>
Now that is something i would like to see and it could be something for the newer players as well as older players as the beginning stages i'm guessing will be possible with the starter decks and as you progress you need more and more cards and deck will need further fine tuning to fit in with restrictions or the like, the reason I feel people want more cards is they can't see the potential this whole rpg style map can bring. Either tey don't like rpgsmuch or have very little experienc in the area.
Post by: nerd1 on August 14, 2013, 01:59:52 pm
Post by: Zso_Zso on August 14, 2013, 02:03:15 pm
Post by: Chapuz on August 14, 2013, 02:13:40 pm
Post by: ColorlessGreen on August 14, 2013, 03:15:25 pm
the "Random Card Pool Deckbuilding" that mathemathistic said in the page before this one sounds fun too
I would absolutely love some sort of "sealed deck"-style mode added to the actual game.
From a story standpoint for PvE, it could be yet another coliseum/arena type of thing where you pay X electrum to enter the arena/coliseum (as an entrance fee, mostly to discourage people from rerolling the sealed deck until they were dealt ghostmare or whatever) and then face a number of opponents in some kind of AI-controlled "tournament". The entrance fee would essentially be the loss fees for all matches, so if you quit out right away due to not liking your sealed deck, you'd pay the full amount, but if you stuck it out, you'd make back all of the money (and then some) making it a similar level of net profit to just playing a similar number of games against random NPCs.
Alternately, the rerolling problem could be solved by just tying it to oracle spins such that your "sealed deck" is generated when you visit the oracle, which would make it able to be used outside of just one structure (i.e. usable in PvP/community tournaments/general PvE). If it were a generally-available thing, perhaps bonus rewards in PvE for using your "sealed deck" and possibly a new PvP mode that only allowed use of sealed decks.
That would be glorious.
Post by: BluePriest on August 14, 2013, 03:31:43 pm
Ill say what I have always said when it comes to new cards though. Special cards are fun, but vanilla cards can be added in more mass, and also make decks more "fun". For example, a I would build and play with a deck that is all fire dragons. Some would be cheap, some would be expensive (no more expensive than the current dragon) and most of them could be vanilla. It may not be the most effecient deck, but Id have the ability to role play a bit and be a dragon tamer in elements, and to me, that is more enjoyable than getting the strongest deck and rushing through the ai.
30 card deck minimum, we will say a generic 10 pillars. That leaves 20 slots, so 5 crimson dragons, 5 fire drakes (5/2 vanilla dragon) 3 dragon eggs (hatches into a random fire dragon 0/5), 4 dragon riders (7/2) and 3 Dragons of the East (3/9). Only 1 of the new cards I mentioned actually has an effect, the names suck cause im no good at them, but the deck itself would allow me to actually have some fun. Right now, even if Im not playing seriously, and want to have some fun with my deck, it is very hard to make a single theme for any 1 element due to all new cards having a special effect, and therefor taking longer to develop and being harder to balance. I love making a 3 scorpion deck and palying with it even though its not the best deck ever because its fun. Its almost impossible to make a deck like that though, and it be at all serious due to the randomness of needing over 3 quanta sources (momentum, or other buff for 0 attack scorpion)
Post by: Blacksmith on August 14, 2013, 04:44:45 pm
This remidns me of Zanz idea TRIALS.the "Random Card Pool Deckbuilding" that mathemathistic said in the page before this one sounds fun too
I would absolutely love some sort of "sealed deck"-style mode added to the actual game.
From a story standpoint for PvE, it could be yet another coliseum/arena type of thing where you pay X electrum to enter the arena/coliseum (as an entrance fee, mostly to discourage people from rerolling the sealed deck until they were dealt ghostmare or whatever) and then face a number of opponents in some kind of AI-controlled "tournament". The entrance fee would essentially be the loss fees for all matches, so if you quit out right away due to not liking your sealed deck, you'd pay the full amount, but if you stuck it out, you'd make back all of the money (and then some) making it a similar level of net profit to just playing a similar number of games against random NPCs.
Alternately, the rerolling problem could be solved by just tying it to oracle spins such that your "sealed deck" is generated when you visit the oracle, which would make it able to be used outside of just one structure (i.e. usable in PvP/community tournaments/general PvE). If it were a generally-available thing, perhaps bonus rewards in PvE for using your "sealed deck" and possibly a new PvP mode that only allowed use of sealed decks.
That would be glorious.
I'd like to have more cards like lychantrope and sundial, play cost from 1 and activation from another.
Post by: majofa on August 14, 2013, 05:40:44 pm
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd244197/Celestial.png)Make a relatively useless card worth playing?
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd244401/Flying_Weapon.png)This would allow Air to fly the opponent's weapon, then kill it with Air's CC.
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd245139/Heavy_Armor.png)(Heavy) which doesn't allow RT'ing, can make combos more fun!
(http://imageplay.net/img/tya22267340/Cockatrice.png)Cockatrices wanna be cool too... with protection from weapons also?? Sounds good.
(http://imageplay.net/img/tya22267333/Leaf_Dragon.png)Trio ability with Light/Life?
More info here. (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,35331.0.html)(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd244401/Flying_Weapon.png)This would allow Air to fly the opponent's weapon, then kill it with Air's CC.
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd245139/Heavy_Armor.png)(Heavy) which doesn't allow RT'ing, can make combos more fun!
(http://imageplay.net/img/tya22267340/Cockatrice.png)Cockatrices wanna be cool too... with protection from weapons also?? Sounds good.
(http://imageplay.net/img/tya22267333/Leaf_Dragon.png)Trio ability with Light/Life?
A lot of these 'slight' changes would do a lot.
New areas and challenges would do a lot.
BUT... the only way to keep people from leaving is to add new cards. (Otherwise it's like putting the CD you've listened to 1000 times on shuffle... it's still the same songs.....)
Post by: Keolino on August 14, 2013, 08:38:27 pm
Anybody who's done PvP Events and Weekly Tournaments knows that we've come at the limited card pool from every different angle. For most elements, War hasn't changed in 3-4 Wars. The Nymph buff helped some teams a bit, which there should be more card changes to existing cards.(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd244197/Celestial.png)Make a relatively useless card worth playing?More info here. (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,35331.0.html)
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd244401/Flying_Weapon.png)This would allow Air to fly the opponent's weapon, then kill it with Air's CC.
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd245139/Heavy_Armor.png)(Heavy) which doesn't allow RT'ing, can make combos more fun!
(http://imageplay.net/img/tya22267340/Cockatrice.png)Cockatrices wanna be cool too... with protection from weapons also?? Sounds good.
(http://imageplay.net/img/tya22267333/Leaf_Dragon.png)Trio ability with Light/Life?
A lot of these 'slight' changes would do a lot.
New areas and challenges would do a lot.
BUT... the only way to keep people from leaving is to add new cards. (Otherwise it's like putting the CD you've listened to 1000 times on shuffle... it's still the same songs.....)
I have looked through most of your suggested card changes. And well, I really would dislike it if elements would change that much. There are a lot new possibilities with your suggested changes, but as much strategies would become weaker/useless. You are even overpowering some cards which are quite strong already...
And your unupped Bone Dragon is 14/6, while your unupped fire dragon is 12/3 ????? The balance between your cards is completely off.
When looking through it, I start thinking that you are underestimating a lot of cards in this game... (Or you only play with the "best cards" anyway. But guess what? There will always be most used decks and cards, and there will always be some cards at the bottom, and you won´t be able to change that even for a bit, because it´s human psychology to search for the strongest weapon)
Post by: majofa on August 14, 2013, 08:44:30 pm
Post by: Drake_XIV on August 14, 2013, 08:49:26 pm
When you said my upped Bone Dragon is 14/6, that's when you lost me...
Keo said unupped, and was referring to:
(http://imageplay.net/img/tya22267304/Bone_Dragon.png)
As seen in the thread you linked.
Post by: ColorlessGreen on August 14, 2013, 08:55:37 pm
When you said my upped Bone Dragon is 14/6, that's when you lost me...
Keo said unupped, and was referring to:(http://imageplay.net/img/tya22267304/Bone_Dragon.png)
As seen in the thread you linked.
Keo said upped and then later edited it to unupped. However, it was pretty clearly and obviously a typo to me.
Post by: Keolino on August 14, 2013, 08:56:32 pm
When you said my upped Bone Dragon is 14/6, that's when you lost me...
Sorry, my mistake, I meant the unupped. (I changed it now)
But it´s still out of balance, for the Bone Dragon to be stronger than the Fire Dragon, since Fire is and should always be the element with the most brute force.
(And there are some other things too, which I think are just mistakes. For example does your upped Firefly Queen the exact same thing as the unupped, with NO changes. (Both generate the Lightning Bug, which is the unupped version in your thread.)
But I already know that you won´t even listen about what I say, so why am i even writing...
@Drake XIV: I said upped first (by mistake) but changed it after reading my text again...
Post by: Marsu on August 14, 2013, 08:59:40 pm
Regarding the initial topic: I see not much need to buff all the underused cards. They don't hurt the game at all, au contraire, actually. I prefer a single new card above an Antlion buff everyday.
Post by: majofa on August 14, 2013, 09:06:41 pm
When you said my upped Bone Dragon is 14/6, that's when you lost me...
Sorry, my mistake, I meant the unupped. (I changed it now)
But it´s still out of balance, for the Bone Dragon to be stronger than the Fire Dragon, since Fire is and should always be the element with the most brute force.
(And there are some other things too, which I think are just mistakes. For example does your upped Firefly Queen the exact same thing as the unupped, with NO changes. (Both generate the Lightning Bug, which is the unupped version in your thread.)
But I already know that you won´t even listen about what I say, so why am i even writing...
@Drake XIV: I said upped first (by mistake) but changed it after reading my text again...
The change I made to Firefly Queen was before it was made in the game, by over 4 months. In fact, it wasn't even my idea, a lot of the community thought the cost reduction would be good for it.
But, yes, if you hate my ideas so much, post it in the linked thread.
Post by: Chapuz on August 14, 2013, 09:19:43 pm
the "Random Card Pool Deckbuilding" that mathemathistic said in the page before this one sounds fun too
I would absolutely love some sort of "sealed deck"-style mode added to the actual game.
From a story standpoint for PvE, it could be yet another coliseum/arena type of thing where you pay X electrum to enter the arena/coliseum (as an entrance fee, mostly to discourage people from rerolling the sealed deck until they were dealt ghostmare or whatever) and then face a number of opponents in some kind of AI-controlled "tournament". The entrance fee would essentially be the loss fees for all matches, so if you quit out right away due to not liking your sealed deck, you'd pay the full amount, but if you stuck it out, you'd make back all of the money (and then some) making it a similar level of net profit to just playing a similar number of games against random NPCs.
Alternately, the rerolling problem could be solved by just tying it to oracle spins such that your "sealed deck" is generated when you visit the oracle, which would make it able to be used outside of just one structure (i.e. usable in PvP/community tournaments/general PvE). If it were a generally-available thing, perhaps bonus rewards in PvE for using your "sealed deck" and possibly a new PvP mode that only allowed use of sealed decks.
That would be glorious.
Anybody who's done PvP Events and Weekly Tournaments knows that we've come at the limited card pool from every different angle.
@majofa
I was refering to random pools, not just limited ones. Like speedbuild tournaments but more in an "in-game" feature instead of just a tournament.
Post by: nerd1 on August 15, 2013, 01:17:43 am
For example, for every 25 levels an AI has rounded down, you gain a 50% chance to gain a "token" when you defeat it (so a level 25 AI would give you a 50% chance to get a token, a level 50 AI would give you a token automatically, and a level 75 AI would give you a token and a 50% chance to get a token.) Tokens can be spent giving minor upgrades to individual cards with a level system (1, 2, or 3 tokens to raise a level, depending on the card and level) and the higher the level of a card, the higher the chance of that creature getting an additional effect (for example, paying one electrum to raise cockatrice one level adds a 10% chance for it to gain the petrification ability, for a 1/5 chance of gaining petrification when the card is played.)
Additional effects could be stuff that doesn't take a lot of time to program (like simple attack buffs or chances to evade targeting) but it would give people another reason to keep playing, and if additional effects are restricted to un-activatable effects, the time investment for zanzarino (hopefully) wouldn't be as big a deal.
Post by: Keeps on August 15, 2013, 02:25:14 am
Honestly, I would like to see more cards in general, by more as in double or triple the current count.
1.) I personally think each element needs it own personal spin on each core area of the game that many still have missing areas:
1x perm defense (salvanger, protect artifact)
1x perm control (steal, defrag, etc)
1x alternative damage (poison, spell, SoV, etc)
1x counter to alternative damage (purify, reflect, etc)
1x creature quanta gain (pests, flies, ray of light, etc)
1x spell quanta gain (nova)
1x spell damage source (explosive gas, fire bolt, etc)
1x AOE creature control (thunderstorm, pandora, etc)
1x target creature control (chaos seed, reverse time, etc)
1x heal form (heal, divinity, purify, etc)
2x shield types (life, light, death element examples)
1x multi-use spell (purify, acceleration, reverse time)
1x cross cross synergy card for each element combination, be it active ability or obvious synergy (Sundial, GoP + Nightmare, leaf dragon)
Until this is addressed, a big part of random encounters is simply what elements were selected, especially in mono or dual combos. I've posted in past accounts, many examples of mono decks that were simply unable to be beat (except by rng) by any mono deck of a specific element. Until then this game remains completely unbalanced. These core areas need addressed.
The examples above don't have to individual cards, for example, purify meets the heal, multiuse, and the counter to poison.
Each element's card respective cards should stay true to the element. Life, should remain the master of heal, no one should have any question the best element for healing is life. No one should have bigger damaging cards out of the gate than Fire. A good spell for fire, might be fuel, in which sacrificing a creature to a fire might offer some healing effect, similar to cremation. Respect to certain cards by ability should remain, for example, protect artifact is in effect the ultimate protection for perms, however lots of creative and less effective perm control can exist for example, time might do a time seal where the perm card has no effect but can't be targeted or removed from play for 2 turns.
The natural meta game radically shifts, and I know some people in the forums would threaten to quit but many, many more have already quit over this issues.
Post by: Drake_XIV on August 15, 2013, 02:55:43 am
Post by: Jyiber on August 15, 2013, 03:02:31 am
One thing that's been killing me... special marks?
Post by: Rutarete on August 15, 2013, 03:43:29 am
Yeah, Life is more of a growth element.Because of what, two cards that actually are/cause growth?
Post by: Drake_XIV on August 15, 2013, 04:07:30 am
But we're straying quite a bit, aren't we?
Post by: rob77dp on August 15, 2013, 03:07:00 pm
There have been many debates on the quantity and effects of cards for a while....
Honestly, I would like to see more cards in general, by more as in double or triple the current count.
1.) I personally think each element needs it own personal spin on each core area of the game that many still have missing areas:
1x perm defense (salvanger, protect artifact)
1x perm control (steal, defrag, etc)
1x alternative damage (poison, spell, SoV, etc)
1x counter to alternative damage (purify, reflect, etc)
1x creature quanta gain (pests, flies, ray of light, etc)
1x spell quanta gain (nova)
1x spell damage source (explosive gas, fire bolt, etc)
1x AOE creature control (thunderstorm, pandora, etc)
1x target creature control (chaos seed, reverse time, etc)
1x heal form (heal, divinity, purify, etc)
2x shield types (life, light, death element examples)
1x multi-use spell (purify, acceleration, reverse time)
1x cross cross synergy card for each element combination, be it active ability or obvious synergy (Sundial, GoP + Nightmare, leaf dragon)
Until this is addressed, a big part of random encounters is simply what elements were selected, especially in mono or dual combos. I've posted in past accounts, many examples of mono decks that were simply unable to be beat (except by rng) by any mono deck of a specific element. Until then this game remains completely unbalanced. These core areas need addressed.
The examples above don't have to individual cards, for example, purify meets the heal, multiuse, and the counter to poison.
Each element's card respective cards should stay true to the element. Life, should remain the master of heal, no one should have any question the best element for healing is life. No one should have bigger damaging cards out of the gate than Fire. A good spell for fire, might be fuel, in which sacrificing a creature to a fire might offer some healing effect, similar to cremation. Respect to certain cards by ability should remain, for example, protect artifact is in effect the ultimate protection for perms, however lots of creative and less effective perm control can exist for example, time might do a time seal where the perm card has no effect but can't be targeted or removed from play for 2 turns.
The natural meta game radically shifts, and I know some people in the forums would threaten to quit but many, many more have already quit over this issues.
(Refer to yellow within spoiler)
Completely unbalanced is WAY WAY over the top, Keeps. 'Incomplete' could accurately be applied and debated but "completely unbalanced" is 100% wrong.
Somewhere in this giant string of 1.4 comments zanz mentions cards are likely coming too. I'm hanging my hat on that for the time being in regards to this aspect of Elements.
Post by: Raptor6789 on August 15, 2013, 08:31:58 pm
Possibly some vanilla cards get abilities, but you only get that ability randomly- for example, cockatrice gets a 1/10 chance to gain "petrification" whenever it's played, and there are "levels" of upgrades to increase the chances of the creature getting that ability, but paid for with something other than electrum.
For example, for every 25 levels an AI has rounded down, you gain a 50% chance to gain a "token" when you defeat it (so a level 25 AI would give you a 50% chance to get a token, a level 50 AI would give you a token automatically, and a level 75 AI would give you a token and a 50% chance to get a token.) Tokens can be spent giving minor upgrades to individual cards with a level system (1, 2, or 3 tokens to raise a level, depending on the card and level) and the higher the level of a card, the higher the chance of that creature getting an additional effect (for example, paying one electrum to raise cockatrice one level adds a 10% chance for it to gain the petrification ability, for a 1/5 chance of gaining petrification when the card is played.)
Additional effects could be stuff that doesn't take a lot of time to program (like simple attack buffs or chances to evade targeting) but it would give people another reason to keep playing, and if additional effects are restricted to un-activatable effects, the time investment for zanzarino (hopefully) wouldn't be as big a deal.
This idea is pretty interesting and possibly a good alternative or supplement to adding new cards. Allowing people to add small changes to their cards creates attachment and specialization. Even with the existing size of the card pool, the possibilities seem to increase substantially when one considers all of the new variations of single cards and synergies that come along. Additionally, a system that unlocks cards only once the player has met certain criteria is also a good idea.
Well most, if not all of us here have been playing Elements for a while, and we probably have extensive card pools. That might be we some of us are asking for a change to the fundamentals. Now, imagine what it might seem like for a new player. In my opinion, adding more cards or variations to existing cards deepens the discovery process - newer information is introduced over a longer period of time, and people may end up becoming more attached to the game.
Post by: Marsu on August 15, 2013, 08:46:18 pm
There is also one more advantage of adding new cards instead of buffing underused (or even actually UP) cards: UP cards actually increase a player's enjoyment here. Limited deck building rules can force players to build decks around them which they are not used to and thus face a new challenge. NPC's that include those cards are way more fun to play against, even if they make up for the weakness of a certain UP card in another way. Players will sometimes chose to play UP cards simply for fun! "Beat the Highscore" might not have existed if all cards and synergies were perfectly balanced and equally strong.
Don't make the same mistake Blizzard did with WoW addons and Diablo 3. Having options is one thing that makes games fun. Don't remove options because you don't see a reason to chose them, let the players chose for themselves, and you might be in for a surprise.
Add a new card instead.
Post by: shileka on August 15, 2013, 09:13:23 pm
i love it, as long as there's no lame energy system atached like so many other card games with a map
Post by: dragonsdemesne on August 15, 2013, 11:51:28 pm
As an example, I'll use Magic: the Gathering. There was a card released back in about 1995 called 'Flash'. It was a terrible card. It let you play a creature on your opponent's turn, for basically (somewhat simplified) the same cost, and if you didn't pay, the creature just immediately died.
Nobody used the card. It was useless in tournament play. It was useless in casual play. It had no theme. It had absolutely nothing going for it. It was one of the most worthless rares in the set. If you opened a pack and got it for your rare, you swore. Then, years later, another card was printed. It was a creature called 'Protean Hulk'. It wasn't that great on its own either, though it did have some use in casual play, just by virtue of being a large creature. It was somewhat overcosted for its attack/defense (wel, power/toughness, but analogous to att/def in elements) but it had the ability that if it died, you could go search your deck for some cheap creatures and put them into play. (totaling cost <=6)
Suddenly, people remembered Flash. They used Flash on Protean Hulk. They didn't bother paying the rest of the cost; they just let it die. Then they got to search their decks for a bunch of cheap creatures and put them into play right away, on like turn 2, instead of turn 7 or more. (hulk cost 7, so would normally take at least that long, barring nova/immolation equivalents) They would pick a bunch of creatures that in combination, could instantly win the game, right then and there. Then they filled the rest of their deck with draw power, mana acceleration (Magic's equivalent of nova, upped towers, etc), and the like, to increase the odds of getting the combo.
Flash was the star of the tournament scene. People were literally building decks with TTWs of like 1.5, and nothing else could compete. Everyone used the Hulk Flash deck. They ended up putting Flash on the restricted list, which meant you could only use one of it in your deck. It was now in an elite list of a few dozen cards out of over ten thousand ingame cards as one of the most broken cards of all time.
Moral of the story; today's utter crap could be tomorrow's meta mvp.
Of course, this also doesn't preclude the fact that sometimes underpowered cards can simply be fun. Who hasn't had fun with a bone wall/schrodinger cat deck, or pandemonium voodoo dolls, or made some ridiculous trio or quartet that relies on getting a 3 or 4 card combo that only happens like 1% of the time, but when it does, it's absolutely hilarious. I once made a CATapult deck, for example, where I used auburn nymphs to buff a schrodinger's cat until it had enough hp to catapult and kill the opponent in one turn. It took something like 15 games in pvp2 before I finally got a win, but man was it awesome when it finally won :p
Post by: Higurashi on August 16, 2013, 06:43:28 am
Another problem connected to this is that decks like these often have many copies of one card and are smaller than 30 cards. That means very high chance of spinning those cards (i.e. Rage Elixir in this case). I could farm that AI and essentially never lose.
Post by: Gandora on August 16, 2013, 06:50:14 am
Bit of an issue with the current map: I built a Grabbow straight from my Darkness starter and went to beat a Seraph deck that had 50 HP. I won a Rage Elixir as my first card. Yeah, the upgraded one. I think if decks have upgrades, they need to be hard enough to warrant the chance to win one. 50 HP is way too little no matter the deck or other stats.
Another problem connected to this is that decks like these often have many copies of one card and are smaller than 30 cards. That means very high chance of spinning those cards (i.e. Rage Elixir in this case). I could farm that AI and essentially never lose.
I have to agree with this. I also won some upped cards, starting with a darkness deck. I went around the different elements and searched some my deck was good against and give a special spin. I think upped cards should be (much) harder to obtain.
Post by: Drake_XIV on August 16, 2013, 07:11:21 am
Post by: Raptor6789 on August 16, 2013, 08:08:29 pm
Post by: TheAccuso on August 16, 2013, 08:20:08 pm
Post by: dawn to dusk on August 16, 2013, 09:22:59 pm
Post by: Marsu on August 16, 2013, 09:33:15 pm
Does this mean you can win upped cards but cannot use them until you finish all the quests? It seems an ok way to balance it out...
That doesn't seem like an ok way to "balance it out" at all.
Luckily, I also doubt that it is planned to be that way.
Post by: Blacksmith on August 16, 2013, 09:46:01 pm
It's just now in the beginning. I fought many ai2 they all give 2 upped spins in the map while they give 2 un upped in elements. I think that Zanz schould lowever the lv of un upped decks that is submitted with 100hp with 10 lv's, would make it much more balanced.Does this mean you can win upped cards but cannot use them until you finish all the quests? It seems an ok way to balance it out...
That doesn't seem like an ok way to "balance it out" at all.
Luckily, I also doubt that it is planned to be that way.
Post by: Keeps on August 16, 2013, 11:31:20 pm
Post by: treebeard xiii on August 17, 2013, 12:07:10 am
It depends on the level region I found. If you are in the element colored areas and not no mans land, your deck is autounupped. Also you can't win upped cards from the spins. As soon as you hit no mans land upped can be used and won.wrong you can win ups from third tier decks i won 2 fire lance and 1 explosion i was winning these from level 30 fire decks iirc the npcs were ignis and spiritblaze.
Post by: Keeps on August 17, 2013, 02:29:04 am
EDIT: Just verified I was right, you do not get an upped spin until level 30, and there no creatures in the colored zones at level 30. I went through 3 page refreshes and walked the zones each time. The NPCs even Cited are level 30 NPCs right now and in the no mans areas.
Post by: TheManuz on August 17, 2013, 11:05:41 am
I know you said there will be new cards and i know that you're busy with the new NPC/Map system.
However, when you will evaluate new cards to be added, what's your opinion on alternative quanta generators?
I think we really need some ways to efficiently play trios or quads or more, and the community produced some viable (and not overpowered) alternatives.
More way to produce quanta would mean a more varied meta with the existing card pool.
It will also strengthens (indirectly) permanent control and salvagers as a consequence.
Post by: Higurashi on August 17, 2013, 11:56:13 am
Odd, 'cause I put no ups in Spiritblaze. Maybe they were only from Ignis.It depends on the level region I found. If you are in the element colored areas and not no mans land, your deck is autounupped. Also you can't win upped cards from the spins. As soon as you hit no mans land upped can be used and won.wrong you can win ups from third tier decks i won 2 fire lance and 1 explosion i was winning these from level 30 fire decks iirc the npcs were ignis and spiritblaze.
But yeah, I find ups are -way- too easy to get still. I started out as Life this time in the development page. Made Adrenafrogs and went on to beat the Peon Blue Crawler and Minor Elf (who is not very minor btw) over and over. Not only do I get a whopping 35-ish electrum and score (which is extremely lucrative compared to the NPC's around the Aether area), but I also get to spin for one upgrade. Within 20m, I had a Minor Abom and 10m later I had 500 score.
Selling my Minor Abom, I built MA and went to easily defeat a Fire Elemental (lvl 46) and lo and behold, I get to spin for TWO upgrades.
Post by: treebeard xiii on August 17, 2013, 12:24:36 pm
Odd, 'cause I put no ups in Spiritblaze. Maybe they were only from Ignis.It depends on the level region I found. If you are in the element colored areas and not no mans land, your deck is autounupped. Also you can't win upped cards from the spins. As soon as you hit no mans land upped can be used and won.wrong you can win ups from third tier decks i won 2 fire lance and 1 explosion i was winning these from level 30 fire decks iirc the npcs were ignis and spiritblaze.
But yeah, I find ups are -way- too easy to get still. I started out as Life this time in the development page. Made Adrenafrogs and went on to beat the Peon Blue Crawler and Minor Elf (who is not very minor btw) over and over. Not only do I get a whopping 35-ish electrum and score (which is extremely lucrative compared to the NPC's around the Aether area), but I also get to spin for one upgrade. Within 20m, I had a Minor Abom and 10m later I had 500 score.
Selling my Minor Abom, I built MA and went to easily defeat a Fire Elemental (lvl 46) and lo and behold, I get to spin for TWO upgrades.
I know neither ignis or spiritblaze have ups but their level automatically upps the cards in the deck for spins. This i disagree with if a deck has no upped cards you shouldn't be able to win pps from it as unupped decks a majority are easier to beat.
Post by: Higurashi on August 17, 2013, 02:07:26 pm
And even if lvl 30 was supposed to be harder than lvl 3... it isn't. They're easier because most have 50 HP or around that. This can, of course, be fixed by selecting the lvl 30-ish decks better, which will happen long before it goes live of course.
Post by: Keeps on August 17, 2013, 03:50:30 pm
Unupped decks only,
0-10 1 no-rares, unupped spin
11-20 2 no-rares, unupped spin
21-30 3 no-rares, unupped spin, clearing the area gives special spin for unupped rare weapon
upped decks
30-40 3 rares included unupped spins, clearing the area gives special spin for unupped all rares
40-50 2 upped spins, clearing the area gives special weapons only upped spin
50-60 3 upped spins, clearing the area gives special all rares upped spin
60-70 3 upped spins, clearing the area gives 2 special spins upped spin
80+ 3 special spins upped spins all rares.
Pick it apart.
Post by: Mathematistic on August 18, 2013, 11:54:20 am
IMO we need to revamp the approx. level formula. Right now it is plain addition, right?
Multiplication and peicewise-defined functions will solve a lot of things.
All numbers can be changed:
There could be a base lv of 30 for an elemental with 100 HP and 0 ups.
For HP: (a)
0-100 HP: (current HP/100)^2.5
for 101-300HP: (current HP/100)
for each extra 20HP above 300, add 1 to (x)
For Marks: (b)
(Mark multiplier)^0.6
For Card Draws: (c)
(Card draw multiplier)^0.7
Upgrades: For every 13.3% of the deck upgraded, add 1 to (x)
Resultant lv: r = 30*a*b*c +x
You could smooth the function out if you like. Basically what I am suggesting is that add a quadratic-to-cubic multiplier for HP at low HP (1-100) so that this cannot be exploited. For moderately high HP the multiplier should be linear. But to prevent ridiculous numbers to be created, for even higher numbers, the HP should follow the current addition system. For mark/card draw multiplier, since the marginal benefit of having those diminishes, adopting a concave curve makes sense for determining level.
Here's my 2 :electrum.
Oh, and, back to the unused card problem:
Some cards are just plain outclassed, and not redeemable by any meta shift. See cockatrice/giant frog, or phase salvager/ball lightning, as 2 examples that came right to my head. Meta-shifts will only make cards that at least occupy a niche become a centrepiece. But for niche-less, statwise-sucky cards, they are screwed up beyond all repair for normal battles. In every CCG, there are always a batch of cards that belongs to this desolated corner. The only situation they will be used is as substitutes of their big bros if the player has no access to that particular big bro. That is, if graboids are banned in an unupped environment, haematite golems may see some use. This kind of restriction can be enforced by restricted pvp tourneys (which IMO should not exist in the forums only; a free-for-all tourney with special rules could be incorporated into the main game), or subtly by random pools (draft battles anyone?). If those kind of play are available within the game, even rubbish vanillas will have a niche in restricted play. EVERY NEW CARD will see some use even if they're out of normal play, if that is so.
(Yes, I'm adopting a milder stance to card making. New cards have their uses, but restricted play is the only way you can MAKE SURE that they add value to the game. Think of phase salvager :( As of today, adding new cards to the game is merely a gamble for an increment in meta diversity)
Well another 2 :electrum. Together you have 4 :electrum from me ;D
Post by: Marsu on August 18, 2013, 12:22:41 pm
Some cards are just plain outclassed, and not redeemable by any meta shift. See cockatrice/giant frog, or phase salvager/ball lightning, as 2 examples that came right to my head. Meta-shifts will only make cards that at least occupy a niche become a centrepiece. But for niche-less, statwise-sucky cards, they are screwed up beyond all repair for normal battles.
Considering the fact that out of your two examples one is already totally off, I have to stick to my initial opinion of strong disagreement. :)
And the formula... well. It might be better approximation than the one in the bestiary at the moment, but the latter is just supposed to be a very rough starting point anyway. The problem lies in formula themselves, they can never be more than a starting point.
Post by: serprex on August 18, 2013, 03:14:32 pm
Also, on Cockatrice/Giant Frog, Phase Salvager/Ball Lightning, what's the one thing he's wrong about? Not to say he's right or you're right, only that I lack understanding to determine which you were implying
Post by: willng3 on August 19, 2013, 07:03:08 am
I look forward to experiencing 1.4 in its final form when its released; as much as I'd like to keep tabs on the project as it continues to grow to fruition, I have a feeling I'd get more of a new experience out of the update if I take it all in while being caught completely unawares. I only hope that some kind soul will let me know when the update is released :P
Keep up the great work!
Post by: Submachine on August 20, 2013, 08:51:13 am
I'm absolutely awestruck by all of the changes that are taking place. I'm not entirely sure if I like all of the changes that are being made (then again I haven't really had the time to do more than read through ALL of this thread and fiddle with the trainer a bit yet), but I foresee this update being a vast improvement over 1.32 which is really all that matters to me. I'm also very happy to see that you've managed to curb the sense of grinding without shifting to a god-awful energy system as someone else mentioned earlier.
I look forward to experiencing 1.4 in its final form when its released; as much as I'd like to keep tabs on the project as it continues to grow to fruition, I have a feeling I'd get more of a new experience out of the update if I take it all in while being caught completely unawares. I only hope that some kind soul will let me know when the update is released :P
Keep up the great work!
Hey will! When 1.4 will be out, will you come back again to the community?
Post by: The_Mormegil on August 20, 2013, 10:35:31 am
Post by: Chapuz on August 20, 2013, 10:27:27 pm
There will still be synchronous PvP and PvP Duels, right?
Post by: treebeard xiii on August 20, 2013, 10:43:02 pm
I think something (obvious or not) hasn't been said officially:zanz said somewhere in this thread that pvp and arena will remain the same 1.4 is only changing the asychronous ais
There will still be synchronous PvP and PvP Duels, right?
Post by: brgst13 on August 22, 2013, 08:48:24 pm
Post by: J6U on August 22, 2013, 10:25:57 pm
:underworld :underworld :underworld
Post by: zanzarino on August 23, 2013, 05:15:58 am
http://www.elementsthegame.com/trainer.html
Marks will be upgradable several times when you have the required reputation with an element (Mark I to Mark X).
Each upgrade at the moment gives 5 extra HP's (to be balanced).
Upgraded marks can not be used in pvp.
Post by: mrpaper on August 23, 2013, 05:30:42 am
Trainer updated with part of the work on marks done (ctrl+F5)Tried it a bit.... you did great Zanz!
http://www.elementsthegame.com/trainer.html
Marks will be upgradable several times when you have the required reputation with an element (Mark I to Mark X).
Each upgrade at the moment gives 5 extra HP's (to be balanced).
Upgraded marks can not be used in pvp.
Post by: BeefSupreme on August 23, 2013, 05:45:32 am
Trainer updated with part of the work on marks done (ctrl+F5)
http://www.elementsthegame.com/trainer.html
Marks will be upgradable several times when you have the required reputation with an element (Mark I to Mark X).
Each upgrade at the moment gives 5 extra HP's (to be balanced).
Upgraded marks can not be used in pvp.
Wow, this is actually looking beautiful. Great work, zanz!
Post by: Leodip on August 23, 2013, 09:10:21 am
Post by: Mathematistic on August 23, 2013, 12:58:08 pm
Trainer updated with part of the work on marks done (ctrl+F5)
http://www.elementsthegame.com/trainer.html
Marks will be upgradable several times when you have the required reputation with an element (Mark I to Mark X).
Each upgrade at the moment gives 5 extra HP's (to be balanced).
Upgraded marks can not be used in pvp.
It would be much better if the reputation is spent as a currency to unlock otherwise inaccessible rewards (random shard/new super-rares, along with the HP upgrades). That way the use of the reputation is more diverse, and the players feel like they have control over the elemental they manifest into in the game, much like a real RPG, where you grow you character to the path you wish to. Small perks like attack bonus/hp bonus (like +1 for the atk or hp for cards of that element if nonzero) much like HD Xyth's campaign mode might work too. If you know about Tyrant, you know the reasons that the raid revamp worked because raid reputation can be spent and grinding got greatly improved. Elements is different from other CCGs, but it's always good to learn from the good things about others.
As for the balancing issue, I would recommend that you make small perks for different stats (10% chance to generate 1 extra quanta/+20HP/+1 atk/hp for nonzero creatres/15% to regain 1 qaunta when playing cards of that element) etc etc. Buffing 1 stat (health) to 150% sounds ridiculous and game-breaking, although the pvp enthusiasts would probably have already thought of pvp1 and 2 banning extra perks and adding pvp3 that allows them, which is also a quick and cost-effective solution.
To sidetrack even more, you see, bans make elements fun. Why not, instead of empowering the elemental, constrain him at battles for a gamble for bigger/rarer rewards?
Suggestions are called 2 :electrum because... well...
Post by: vindices on August 23, 2013, 03:17:02 pm
Trainer updated with part of the work on marks done (ctrl+F5)
Marks will be upgradable several times when you have the required reputation with an element (Mark I to Mark X).
Each upgrade at the moment gives 5 extra HP's (to be balanced).
Upgraded marks can not be used in pvp.
It would be much better if the reputation is spent as a currency to unlock otherwise inaccessible rewards (random shard/new super-rares, along with the HP upgrades). That way the use of the reputation is more diverse, and the players feel like they have control over the elemental they manifest into in the game, much like a real RPG, where you grow you character to the path you wish to. Small perks like attack bonus/hp bonus (like +1 for the atk or hp for cards of that element if nonzero) much like HD Xyth's campaign mode might work too. If you know about Tyrant, you know the reasons that the raid revamp worked because raid reputation can be spent and grinding got greatly improved. Elements is different from other CCGs, but it's always good to learn from the good things about others.
As for the balancing issue, I would recommend that you make small perks for different stats (10% chance to generate 1 extra quanta/+20HP/+1 atk/hp for nonzero creatres/15% to regain 1 qaunta when playing cards of that element) etc etc. Buffing 1 stat (health) to 150% sounds ridiculous and game-breaking, although the pvp enthusiasts would probably have already thought of pvp1 and 2 banning extra perks and adding pvp3 that allows them, which is also a quick and cost-effective solution.
To sidetrack even more, you see, bans make elements fun. Why not, instead of empowering the elemental, constrain him at battles for a gamble for bigger/rarer rewards?
Suggestions are called 2 :electrum because... well...
I like these ideas myself, would certainly make the game more interesting, especially the constraints to make things harder for better rewards. would make grinding for cards/electrum much more enjoyable and entertaining.
Post by: treebeard xiii on August 23, 2013, 04:40:58 pm
Post by: ggabriel2 on August 23, 2013, 07:41:39 pm
marks levels giving you extra health is good but I also agree with math i find it hard enough as it is to grind boring and monotonous, but if i can bcome more personalised towards my element of choice or indeed become more balanced with the other elements suddenly the will to grind skyrockets ofc the coding part may indeed be tricky but that depends on how it is done you may already know this but hierarchical databases are used to great success in rpgs. Having a personalised growth root makes me feel more like an elemental than simple bonuses anyone could have it just doesn't feel like an accomplishment to me so i've got maximum reputation within in entropy what do I have max health, and maybe a few other stat increases that ais have to use against ais, but in pvp I'm just another player and m chance of winning is based on luck and how well mine and my opponents decks are built, or so I'm against mr water he can have any bonuses earned from water or he could have a few bonuses within all the elements, suddenly the duel is no longer whose deck is better or who has the better luck or a mixture of both it becomes a battle of wits and the ability to predict your opponents elemental choices, suddenly even the most noobish player has a chance to beat a veteran based on ability alone conerning his card pool. Now that I could do and would be perfectly happy to donate more money to an already great game just to aid in game development. In short what I am saying is yes, k.i.s.s at first this is a massive revamp to elements and already will rekindle it in my eyes but consider putting more detail into the whole rpgesque ai section and maybe bring it to pvp also it would cerainly spark of more pvp event options and with that more people join the community and therefore more people stay and therefore elements stays strong while it competitors stagnate the community is by far one of the best parts of the game but the decision ofc lies with you.
Adding RPG grinding to PVP would probably be popular but honestly in my opinion it would be a much worse game. You say that it would make it easier for new players to beat veterans but it's transparently obvious that it would have precisely the opposite effect--it doesn't matter how customizable your stat bonuses are, the guy who's been grinding is going to have more of them and will be even harder to beat for a new player no matter how wisely they invest their bonuses.
Some pages ago someone suggested adding options to the PvP duel system to allow players to set up PvP duels with whatever HP/mark multiplier/draw rate they want on each side (subject to both players' approval) and I think this would be the best route to go for increasing the variety and scope of PvP while still keeping a level playing field. That way you could run PvP events with what the heck ever parameters you want--20 HP vs 20 HP duels, "False God" PvP tournaments, handicapped events to even up a match or create a deliberately lopsided challenge, etc. You'd create even more variety than letting players grind stats for bonuses in PvP. And hey, if people want to play with RPG-style grinding in PvP there would be nothing stopping them from doing it themselves, set up a tournament/league that rewards players with the right to use higher stats within league matches as they get wins.
Post by: Zso_Zso on August 23, 2013, 08:52:55 pm
Post by: BeefSupreme on August 23, 2013, 10:22:26 pm
Another variant for PVP: use the arena-level difference between the opponents to even-out the odds by adding "skill points" just as you have for your arena decks for the lower level player. E.g. if the difference in arena levels is 23, then the lower level player has 23 skill points to spend on boosting his/her stats same way as you do for your arena decks, i.e. you can add HP, mark-power, double draw.
This would be awesome.
Post by: eaglgenes101 on August 26, 2013, 02:47:23 am
Post by: Rutarete on August 26, 2013, 03:25:34 am
The current map controls feel kinda clunky. Maybe change them so you can click the top-down map to move around?I agree this would be nice to have
Post by: FIQ on August 27, 2013, 03:51:44 pm
Remember these Firebolt OTK decks? Well, these makes all fights until like Level 30+ incredibly easy due to the very low HP nature of NPCs. I tried out this mode in trainer without any cheats, and was able to get an upgraded card far earlier than even getting my rare (score 138), using the fire starter deck for the sole purpose of getting the bolts, immolations, fire pillars, etc. I didn't bother putting that much thought into the deck, but it does work. Granted - new players probably aren't that savvy, but my point is that I guess getting upgraded cards wasn't intended to be *that* easy.
Also managed to win 5 upgraded fire lances from a single win against Pyromaster (who is incredibly easy to counter even for a starter - a single reflective shield is an autowin) :p
Post by: ColorlessGreen on August 27, 2013, 04:14:06 pm
I have a small concern regarding HP.
Remember these Firebolt OTK decks? Well, these makes all fights until like Level 30+ incredibly easy due to the very low HP nature of NPCs. I tried out this mode in trainer without any cheats, and was able to get an upgraded card far earlier than even getting my rare (score 138), using the fire starter deck for the sole purpose of getting the bolts, immolations, fire pillars, etc. I didn't bother putting that much thought into the deck, but it does work. Granted - new players probably aren't that savvy, but my point is that I guess getting upgraded cards wasn't intended to be *that* easy.
I believe NPC deck levels and the rewards for those levels are still a work in progress. I do not expect it to be as absurdly easy as it is in trainer to get ridiculous amounts of money in the first few hours of a new account.
Post by: Chapuz on August 27, 2013, 04:21:08 pm
Post by: Marsu on August 27, 2013, 04:23:44 pm
May I suggest rareless AIs until level 35ish?
Probably not.
Zanz already stated that the low level areas will include mainly rareless NPCs, combined with seldom spawning elite NPCs that do have rares.
Post by: Chapuz on August 27, 2013, 04:31:38 pm
Woohoo my suggestion was taken! (?)May I suggest rareless AIs until level 35ish?
Probably not.
Zanz already stated that the low level areas will include mainly rareless NPCs, combined with seldom spawning elite NPCs that do have rares.
Post by: majofa on August 27, 2013, 04:39:19 pm
If you mean your suggestion after zanz had already stated it, then yes.Woohoo my suggestion was taken! (?)May I suggest rareless AIs until level 35ish?
Probably not.
Zanz already stated that the low level areas will include mainly rareless NPCs, combined with seldom spawning elite NPCs that do have rares.
Post by: Chapuz on August 27, 2013, 05:36:44 pm
You should pay more atention to jokesIf you mean your suggestion after zanz had already stated it, then yes.Woohoo my suggestion was taken! (?)May I suggest rareless AIs until level 35ish?
Probably not.
Zanz already stated that the low level areas will include mainly rareless NPCs, combined with seldom spawning elite NPCs that do have rares.
Post by: BeefSupreme on August 27, 2013, 10:20:17 pm
I suggest we have an ELEMENTS 1.4! And we should make it look a lot like this. (http://elementsthegame.com/development)You should pay more atention to jokesIf you mean your suggestion after zanz had already stated it, then yes.Woohoo my suggestion was taken! (?)May I suggest rareless AIs until level 35ish?
Probably not.
Zanz already stated that the low level areas will include mainly rareless NPCs, combined with seldom spawning elite NPCs that do have rares.
Post by: jsrjohnny on August 28, 2013, 10:09:15 pm
Post by: eaglgenes101 on August 29, 2013, 01:27:26 am
Post by: Rutarete on August 29, 2013, 01:48:35 am
How do I find my NPCs?As far as I know, you don't. It's all chance if you do find one. Having the ability to search out npcs could lead to unfair changes in their ratings (losing purposely to your own), as nice as it is to test against your own.
Post by: eaglgenes101 on August 29, 2013, 02:07:53 am
Post by: Rutarete on August 29, 2013, 02:09:57 am
Post by: eaglgenes101 on August 31, 2013, 08:05:58 pm
Post by: Chapuz on September 01, 2013, 01:25:00 pm
Post by: BeefSupreme on September 01, 2013, 02:03:20 pm
I can't find the "All quests" button in the trainer. Is it just me?IT'S GONE! D:
Post by: Naesala on September 07, 2013, 09:23:49 pm
So, after 20 pages (by my settings) of comments, I finally ring in with my 2 :electrum. Forget "Elements 1.4". This proposed update completely changes how the game is played. This is "Elements 2.0", clearly. That's just me, and I'm sure no one agrees, least of all zanzarino. Just wanted to get it out in the open instead of keeping it inside my little brain forever.To some extent I agree, while we are keeping our cards and such, this is a huge new change.
I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.
plus if we make it elements 2.0 we can re-release it on kong and get more badges and new players
Post by: dragtom on September 08, 2013, 09:43:28 am
plus if we make it elements 2.0 we can re-release it on kong and get more badges and new players
please, please dont do that.
Looking at other games on kong (mainly sacred seasons), the game completely died by releasing a 2nd.
Half the community moves on, the other half stays at the first version. Both versions have too few players to be fun;
almost everybody stops playing.
Post by: Marsu on September 08, 2013, 10:09:28 am
please, please dont do that.
Looking at other games on kong (mainly sacred seasons), the game completely died by releasing a 2nd.
Half the community moves on, the other half stays at the first version. Both versions have too few players to be fun;
almost everybody stops playing.
Exactly. Also, you exaggerate. PvP and Arena stay exactly like they are. Even AI only really change on the surface.
Post by: Naesala on September 08, 2013, 10:25:36 pm
Post by: BeefSupreme on September 08, 2013, 11:47:52 pm
Regardless of the version, both would come to these forums. Arena and PvP stay the same. Sure, it may split the kongregate community to some extent, but it would still generate significantly more buzz.
Sure, it may split the kongregate community to some extent
split the kongregate community to some extent
split the kongregate community
Post by: xyan on September 08, 2013, 11:58:46 pm
on a more serious note, the changes seem beneficial enough to everyone: therefore, i doubt playerbase will suffer.
Post by: Naesala on September 09, 2013, 03:55:59 am
Nice job cutting down my sentence until it said what you wanted in the last post.i doubt playerbase will suffer.it may split the kongregate community to some extent
May. As in it might. Or it might not. I don't think it will. And "to some extent". Meaning the splitting might not be permanent, major, or anything else. If friendships and communities shatter so easily then that's flat out depressing. And, I dont think it will hurt the playerbase at all since PVP and Arena is the same.
Is there anyone else playing old versions of magic on outdated sites and refusing to move to a new update? I highly doubt it. Any organized play would still be the same. At the absolute most, some people who choose not to upgrade to the better version of the game will be in a different chatroom but still use the same forums.
Considering I spend hardly any time in either current chatroom, nor do a majority of players, I'd be willing to bet this wont destroy a community. More likely, it will bring in a large number of new players, reintroduce people who have given up and dont care about 1.4 because of the slow, small updates of the past, and only strengthen both communities. The odds of it damaging the community are slim
Post by: BeefSupreme on September 09, 2013, 04:08:31 am
Is there anyone else playing old versions of magic on outdated sites and refusing to move to a new update?
update?Elements 2 =/= Elements update
Magic the Gathering update =/= Magic the Gathering 2
If they made Magic the Gathering 2, they would probably fail as badly as Elements 2 would.
Also, let me fix this last paragraph for ya.
Considering I spend hardly any time in either current chatroom, nor do a majority of players, I'd be willing to bet this will completely cut the new playerbase in half. More likely, it will bring in a large number of new players, reintroduce people who have given up and dont care about 1.4 until they realize how similar Elements 1 and 2 is and get bored, and only weaken both communities to the extent of Elements slowly dying. The odds of it damaging the community are extremely high
Post by: Keolino on September 09, 2013, 07:27:40 am
1. Splitting it to 1.x and 2.0 would result in some things: The enemy-system I want is in 2.0, and the cards I have are in 1.x. I finally got my first fully upped deck, and i don't intent to train a new account to the top if the elements would split. I would play for some more time and then stop because I now have two accounts, and neither one is completely satisfying (The same happened with me with diablo 2 and diablo 3, and the same with Elder Scrolls: Oblivion and Elder Scrolls: Skyrim) That may be only what I would do, cause not everybody is the same as me. i would estimate that about 10-20 % would quit from that.
2. Would 1.x still get updates? If not, it wouldn't get the new cards anymore, and you would have to split the arena and the pvp after all. If it would get updates, Zanz would have to put all card-updates and pvp/arena updates always in both games. (i don't know how difficult this would be, (or if it would be as easy as Strg+C and Strg+V) cause I am not a programmer after all.
3. If there would be 1.x and 2.0, because of the new false god system (and the impossibility to farm false gods the whole day) and the new NPC system, people will start to argue about which of the two systems is better. I think they would split about 75% to 2.0 and 25% to 1.3x (because it gets necessary to create a new account as well...) If the elements 1.x wouldn't get the new card updates, we will slowly lose about the leftover 20-30 % óf gamers.
4. New players by 2.0. It would make a new game at kongregate and other sites, so it may attract some new and old players. I can't really estimate how many these are so it gets difficult at this point. Maybe about +20% to +40%
5. Players which play more than before if the elements is splitted. I think if it is splitted, some players will play more, and some players would play more if it gets a clean 1.4. So that may be even.
From the things I listed, it's difficult to make a decision which is better. So I want to hear other arguments and your opinion on my own arguments, to make things more clear. And something else: I hate fighting. And something else: All of your arguments till now were pretty poor because you focused on fighting each other. Focusing on your own arguments and thinking about the arguments and oppinions of others is a more mature way to do things...
Post by: Pella on September 09, 2013, 10:06:54 am
The thought behind the numbering of Elements 2.0 was ONLY that the game was receiving an update that was so dramatic that giving it a dot-update seemed insufficient. No one other than you has suggested that there should be two separate games, one in the 1.x series, and another called 2.0. Therefore, there would be no need to worry about the 1.x cards not being present in 2.0.
HOWEVER, as has been pointed out numerous times by numerous people, the entire concept of going to that numbering system is beyond stupid for numerous reasons. Therefore, all arguments against it are a waste of time, because it's not going to happen.
I am beyond sorry I ever mentioned it. I cannot begin to express my regret even for THINKING of the idea of using the number 2 in the new update, much less actually for presenting it to the Community.
Can we all please now stop discussing Pella Everwrong's mega-super-ultra-OMFG stupid idea of calling the new update Elements 2.0?
Post by: Keolino on September 09, 2013, 11:02:17 am
Keolino, all five of your projected consequences are based on the concept that two separate games would exist. As far as I know, exactly zero people suggested having two separate games.
No one other than you has suggested that there should be two separate games, one in the 1.x series, and another called 2.0.
There weren't zero people, since Naesala suggested it.
So I wasn't the one suggesting to make seperate games, but Naesala did it, just to be clear. I just listed the consequences which a seperation might face. nothing more.
But Pella. We are on a forum to talk about things. To argue about ideas, even if they are stupid or naive of whatever. It's not forbidden to talk about ideas, which first seemed good, but where stupid on a second thought. It's neither forbidden to talk about stupid ideas, which may later prove some value. And only by talking (not by fighting) we will be able to find out what may be stupid, or what was only stupid at a first thought.
Post by: Pella on September 09, 2013, 12:18:20 pm
Elements 2 =/= Elements update
-snip-
I am sorry but I just cannot stress enough how stupid I think Elements 2 is.
Therefore, as I stated above, no one suggested having two separate games. One person completely misinterpreted the original idea and decided that the original idea was about having two separate games. He was wrong, just as I was wrong for presenting the original idea in the first place.
Obviously, you are correct. We are here to talk about stuff. I, like you, would prefer that we talk about stuff that is relevant to the Elements Community. That is why I begged the Community to stop discussing my horribly stupid idea.
Post by: ColorlessGreen on September 09, 2013, 03:16:56 pm
plus if we make it elements 2.0 we can re-release it on kong and get more badges and new players
Just about everyone is discussing the quoted suggestion to re-release the game on kong, which I made regular-sized-text instead of tiny to avoid any of the further confusion.
I had interpreted this idea to mean that everything would point at the same servers, and just get re-released on kong in order to get more of the visibility from being "new".
Does anyone know if kong has any mechanism to handle major updates other than issuing a "new" game? What would be ideal is to get the additional visibility out of kong without having to say it's a new game, since the history is important and there are badges that already exist for the old one. I don't see how it could be re-released without either removing the old version or splitting (which I don't think anyone actually wants to do), as I doubt kong is willing to have two separate identical games. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some way to get visibility out of kong from a major update, though. I'm pretty sure I've seen other MMOs get "new update" treatment at major patch releases even without resubmitting the game as a new game.
Post by: dragtom on September 09, 2013, 05:24:11 pm
(and this is important for zanz to see)
you can get on the front page of kong with a major update.
I don't know exactly who to contact for that,
but I guess qazzaq123 (wolfunit) knows.
edit:
and apparantly i completely missed colorlessgreen's post.
Post by: Chapuz on September 09, 2013, 06:12:20 pm
Post by: Higurashi on September 10, 2013, 04:41:47 am
I don't think Elements 2.0 is a neccesarily bad idea. Many brands pull it off, so it's obviously up to the execution. It could add to publicity, and the faithfuls wouldn't care about a number anyway. That said, I imagine a larger change to the interface or mechanics rather than just the content if I am to imagine a big ol' 2.0. That or an overhaul of the content. As it is, we're only getting more and nothing is going away or being modified (in essence), which is awesome :>
Post by: Essence on September 11, 2013, 10:21:48 pm
Oh yes.
Post by: artimies7 on September 11, 2013, 11:09:43 pm
Oh, and welcome back Essence.
Post by: storyteller on September 22, 2013, 09:58:03 am
Post by: Keolino on September 22, 2013, 10:56:20 am
Im working on some things in bestiary. I would really like a way to have certain cards just played at the start of the match, like a pet. further, say a starting hand and quanta amount, so the AI plays certain combos at the beginning and such. Beyond this, decks that either dont deckout, or have blank 'dummy cards'.
1. Pets for AI, sounds interesting, I think that might be fun and is maybe something to consider.
2. starting hand and quanta amount at start...? Just no. I don't want them to play the exact same cards each fight. Just like normal players, they should be able to suffer from a bad draw.
3. decks that don't deck-out...? Give them 60 cards... That makes it unlikely that they deck out. But just like every deck (and every AI) should have a bad draw at one point, they should also deck out at one point. (And well, there is Eternity after all...)
4. Blank dummy cards...? I don't even know in which AI deck I would put something like that...
Post by: CuCN on September 22, 2013, 06:57:38 pm
Post by: storyteller on September 22, 2013, 08:11:47 pm
copy card
amnesia effect
custom cards
base card for card creation effects - canvas card
etc
Post by: J6U on September 24, 2013, 02:47:34 am
I think the blank cards go with the no deckout idea, so instead of running out of cards it starts drawing dummy cards.
Or Relics as blank cards.
Post by: farscape on September 25, 2013, 03:44:03 pm
Post by: BluePriest on September 26, 2013, 03:13:00 am
I knew Zanz would create something to draw me out of the woodwork eventually.
Oh yes.
Oh look! Its Essence!
And this is why such overhauls are great. It adds something for the
Post by: coinich on September 26, 2013, 06:53:28 pm
I knew Zanz would create something to draw me out of the woodwork eventually.
Oh yes.
Oh look! Its Essence!
And this is why such overhauls are great. It adds something for theoldveteran players.
Heh, so I'm not the only one...
Post by: asymmetry on September 29, 2013, 07:10:57 pm
Post by: TribalTrouble on October 06, 2013, 07:00:51 pm
Post by: vindices on October 10, 2013, 04:11:34 pm
Post by: Drake_XIV on October 10, 2013, 04:19:53 pm
Post by: Keeps on October 10, 2013, 09:01:03 pm
Post by: BeefSupreme on October 10, 2013, 09:03:32 pm
Really, what was his latest activity? I haven't seen much of a change or word in what feels like a month.
> lrn2profile (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=89)
Post by: Rutarete on October 10, 2013, 09:25:20 pm
What beef is trying to say, is that if you look at a user's profile, you can see when he/she was last online.Really, what was his latest activity? I haven't seen much of a change or word in what feels like a month.
> lrn2profile (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=89)
Post by: teffy on October 13, 2013, 06:55:29 pm
- Some arrows of hexagons are missing, when the player moves to the southern borders of the world (e.g. 86.6;106.2). They work, but are not displayed.
- When I played against Akebono Minions, I won. Then I played against Akebono and lost. I somehow came into a loop, where I always played against Akebono Minion and werent able to go back to the map, I always got that minion again.
- Low-level enemies cost less than 5 :electrum and give back 5 :electrum as a reward for voting. Should the rating system be implemented in real game, this is a possible exploit (play-lose-vote-play-lose-vote...)
- Rewards dont seem to be balanced, yet. There are e.g enemies with <50 HP - quite easy to defeat. And they give upgraded spins. Even 1 upgraded spin is too much.
Halfbloods could be somehow compared to 1 upgraded spin, 2 unupgraded.
Post by: hongkong on October 16, 2013, 11:30:38 am
Post by: Keeps on October 16, 2013, 03:24:10 pm
I'm actually terribly board in the trainer with the new interface, I just go ahead and click on Level 40 or Level 50.
Post by: BeefSupreme on October 17, 2013, 02:32:23 am
I just came back today after a long break from the game. I tried the v1.4 in the training mode, and I am not sure if the new interface is the right direction for this game. I played the game because it was fun to collect the cards, build decks, and challenge different opponents (btw, the arena was a great idea), but I got bored eventually because there are not many cards. The game just needs many more cards. The current interface is fine to me.
You've just said what everyone has wanted since forever.
But instead of an update with lots of new cards, we got this..
Maybe now that the hype over this has diminished, people will see how...unnecessary this update is.
Post by: TribalTrouble on October 17, 2013, 03:14:30 am
From a community standpoint I fully agree. No shiny graphics alone ever provided one with a great new community. The thing that keeps games like MTG and Yugioh popular and growing is a multitude of updates in the cards available to players. Elements greatly lacks in this area although it excels in multiple others, mainly gameplay-related. The servers aren't perfect but they are pretty good and their lacking in speed and accuracy at times can't be changed to my knowledge. Additional cards with new concepts and rare treasures to find and donate for would increase the addiction factor. More cards means more people.I just came back today after a long break from the game. I tried the v1.4 in the training mode, and I am not sure if the new interface is the right direction for this game. I played the game because it was fun to collect the cards, build decks, and challenge different opponents (btw, the arena was a great idea), but I got bored eventually because there are not many cards. The game just needs many more cards. The current interface is fine to me.
You've just said what everyone has wanted since forever.
But instead of an update with lots of new cards, we got this..
Maybe now that the hype over this has diminished, people will see how...unnecessary this update is.
From the developer's standpoint I fully understand Zanzarino's decision and may have done the same in his stead. He is using this as part of his portfolio. People are more likely to be enticed into exploring a game by a shiny interface that makes them feel like they are really in a world with varying tribes of creatures all around them than an interface that was made with five year old technology and techniques. They won't always be enticed by a normal 'very easy' 'easy' 'normal' 'hard' 'very hard' buttons for facing the computer opponents as soon as they see the game for the first time. They like seeing things like Pandemonium and Quantum Pillars and Singularity that show that Elements is creative, complex, and provides a unique experience.
Keep in mind that new players will want to explore the game with this new interface. They will want to see all that Elements has to offer but will be given bits by bits of it through small quests that will gradually entice them towards later and later quests. This is what I believe Zanzarino is shooting for. It gives it the same type of exploration factor that makes a new Legend of Zelda game so exciting. A new world to explore, and new enemies to face. With enemies also getting progressively harder and being in areas that piqued my curiosity with how the elements each had their own area, their own enemies with varying strategies, etc. I couldn't wait to keep exploring the quests if I could save.
Post by: Drake_XIV on October 17, 2013, 03:30:13 am
Post by: BeefSupreme on October 17, 2013, 03:52:28 am
From the developer's standpoint I fully understand Zanzarino's decision and may have done the same in his stead. He is using this as part of his portfolio. People are more likely to be enticed into exploring a game by a shiny interface that makes them feel like they are really in a world with varying tribes of creatures all around them than an interface that was made with five year old technology and techniques. They won't always be enticed by a normal 'very easy' 'easy' 'normal' 'hard' 'very hard' buttons for facing the computer opponents as soon as they see the game for the first time. They like seeing things like Pandemonium and Quantum Pillars and Singularity that show that Elements is creative, complex, and provides a unique experience.
Keep in mind that new players will want to explore the game with this new interface. They will want to see all that Elements has to offer but will be given bits by bits of it through small quests that will gradually entice them towards later and later quests. This is what I believe Zanzarino is shooting for. It gives it the same type of exploration factor that makes a new Legend of Zelda game so exciting. A new world to explore, and new enemies to face. With enemies also getting progressively harder and being in areas that piqued my curiosity with how the elements each had their own area, their own enemies with varying strategies, etc. I couldn't wait to keep exploring the quests if I could save.
Post by: Higurashi on October 17, 2013, 05:35:14 am
Post by: Keolino on October 17, 2013, 06:24:01 am
I just came back today after a long break from the game. I tried the v1.4 in the training mode, and I am not sure if the new interface is the right direction for this game. I played the game because it was fun to collect the cards, build decks, and challenge different opponents (btw, the arena was a great idea), but I got bored eventually because there are not many cards. The game just needs many more cards. The current interface is fine to me.
I think the interface of the game right now is pretty much an empty shell. Yeah, there are NPC already, but it still isn't the final version of the map (at least I think Zanz said that some time ago) We still haven't seen the new quests, and we still haven't seen how much we can develop our "characters" in the final game (all we now till now is that there are 10 levels right now, each providing 5 HP. Zanz said that that won't be everything.)
About the updates of cards: Yeah, I as well, hope for at least 2-5 really interesting new cards in the bazzar, and maybe 1 or 2 rares (i don't think that we need more "rare-series" like shards, weapons or nymphs)
but constant new cards (like in magic or yugioh or pokemon) pose problems as well. Older cards growing weaker, and the lose of interest because the cards will always be "more colorful and creative" then the ones before. Simply, they get more complex, and there come more complex (and strange) abilities all the time. I quit Magic and Yugioh because of that, and many others as well, because the "original" magic that we experienced (8. Edition, Mirodin, Kamigawa) changed so fast that we didn't want to keep up with it anymore. About Yugioh, it was even more fatal. I started it when it came out. Most creatures didn't have abilities back then, and the strongest equipment spells gave about 500 ATK, and there weren't any themes back then. The only cards connected where fusions and the parts of exodia. -----> Anyway, I quit both games because they were changing at high speed and didn't feel "original" anymore. And that's the reason why I am still stuck with elements after years.
Post by: treebeard xiii on October 17, 2013, 02:19:20 pm
you guys are banging on about how more cards are more appealing than a new interface but you don't seem to have read this whole thread zanz had said earlier in the thread that it isn't just a new interface there will be new cards as well. As for the tonnes of cards update that these money-spinning games have i feel thatwould destroy elements more than help it, even if it remains free to play there needs to be something to improve the grind i have long since stopped grinding because it is dull and boring with the same handful of ais being your only money source and don't say the arena gives a load more ai options because it just doesn't people put the same old crap up all the time just with a different oracle card or a different mark, lots of cards means the old traditional cards get forgotten even with the small card base that elements has cards get forgotten, take the long since forgotten pulverizer there was a time where no bow was built without it now it is shard of focus everything what elements needs isn't a tonne of new cards just a few that benefit the less used cards or open up a whole new line of deckbuild options. For an example of this take shard of patience when it was changed to buff all creatures people went crazy suddenly the less used cards got churned out because the buff was crazy if given time so people exprimented a bit some new decks were born. What we need is not only a more interesting grind experience but a few cards that open up whole new strategies or revive old cards, three or four well designed cards could freshen elements up for a year provided people aren't told certain synergies these new cards have.I just came back today after a long break from the game. I tried the v1.4 in the training mode, and I am not sure if the new interface is the right direction for this game. I played the game because it was fun to collect the cards, build decks, and challenge different opponents (btw, the arena was a great idea), but I got bored eventually because there are not many cards. The game just needs many more cards. The current interface is fine to me.
I think the interface of the game right now is pretty much an empty shell. Yeah, there are NPC already, but it still isn't the final version of the map (at least I think Zanz said that some time ago) We still haven't seen the new quests, and we still haven't seen how much we can develop our "characters" in the final game (all we now till now is that there are 10 levels right now, each providing 5 HP. Zanz said that that won't be everything.)
About the updates of cards: Yeah, I as well, hope for at least 2-5 really interesting new cards in the bazzar, and maybe 1 or 2 rares (i don't think that we need more "rare-series" like shards, weapons or nymphs)
but constant new cards (like in magic or yugioh or pokemon) pose problems as well. Older cards growing weaker, and the lose of interest because the cards will always be "more colorful and creative" then the ones before. Simply, they get more complex, and there come more complex (and strange) abilities all the time. I quit Magic and Yugioh because of that, and many others as well, because the "original" magic that we experienced (8. Edition, Mirodin, Kamigawa) changed so fast that we didn't want to keep up with it anymore. About Yugioh, it was even more fatal. I started it when it came out. Most creatures didn't have abilities back then, and the strongest equipment spells gave about 500 ATK, and there weren't any themes back then. The only cards connected where fusions and the parts of exodia. -----> Anyway, I quit both games because they were changing at high speed and didn't feel "original" anymore. And that's the reason why I am still stuck with elements after years.
Post by: hongkong on October 17, 2013, 07:46:13 pm
See you all again in the next version, hopefully.
Post by: Naii_the_Baf on November 03, 2013, 02:29:37 am
Post by: dawn to dusk on November 03, 2013, 03:21:30 am
Post by: Naii_the_Baf on November 11, 2013, 03:23:07 am
Post by: Higurashi on November 11, 2013, 03:33:36 am
Post by: BeefSupreme on November 11, 2013, 03:53:16 am
What will happen with the player's cards?(I ask this because I have 611 cards) Will they still be with the owner of the cards or all cards and :electrum will be deleted? ANSWER.
> World of Warcraft updates
> you have to buy the whole game again + start from the beginning
Post by: xyan on November 11, 2013, 04:01:11 am
What will happen with the player's cards?(I ask this because I have 611 cards) Will they still be with the owner of the cards or all cards and :electrum will be deleted? ANSWER.
> World of Warcraft updates
> you have to buy the whole game again + start from the beginning
sad that i know this is not true, however it would suck if it was like this (i would have quit for good much earlier).
some games 2.0 is a completely new game from the first version and thus data does not transfer (usually from an updated code or separate database). here, i don't think either are the case.
Post by: rob77dp on November 11, 2013, 05:32:46 am
What will happen with the player's cards?(I ask this because I have 611 cards) Will they still be with the owner of the cards or all cards and :electrum will be deleted? ANSWER.
> World of Warcraft updates
> you have to buy the whole game again + start from the beginning
sad that i know this is not true, however it would suck if it was like this (i would have quit for good much earlier).
some games 2.0 is a completely new game from the first version and thus data does not transfer (usually from an updated code or separate database). here, i don't think either are the case.
Also, note that 1.4 is certainly NOT a "2.0" update. If it was, zanz would refer to it as 2.0 :P.
Post by: BeefSupreme on November 11, 2013, 05:37:02 am
What will happen with the player's cards?(I ask this because I have 611 cards) Will they still be with the owner of the cards or all cards and :electrum will be deleted? ANSWER.
> World of Warcraft updates
> you have to buy the whole game again + start from the beginning
sad that i know this is not true, however it would suck if it was like this (i would have quit for good much earlier).
some games 2.0 is a completely new game from the first version and thus data does not transfer (usually from an updated code or separate database). here, i don't think either are the case.
Also, note that 1.4 is certainly NOT a "2.0" update. If it was, zanz would refer to it as 2.0 :P.
Exactly. Although it's going to be very different, it's not separate from what Elements is now. Think of it as Minecraft's "Horse Update" or something.
Post by: ddevans96 on November 11, 2013, 05:38:29 am
Post by: BeefSupreme on November 11, 2013, 05:01:04 pm
tbh it's more like Minecraft's 'Update That Changed the World', given the nature of the map xD
I don't keep up with Minecraft's silly updates ;-; I was just trying to think of a big update that changed the game but had no effect on the players' purchases.
Post by: dragtom on November 12, 2013, 10:27:37 am
http://www.kongregate.com/forums/1-kongregate/topics/72-updated-games?page=1
No idea how far that will take it, but at least we could give it a shot.
Post by: BeefSupreme on November 13, 2013, 01:53:34 am
on the subject of making the game more known on kongregate:
http://www.kongregate.com/forums/1-kongregate/topics/72-updated-games?page=1
No idea how far that will take it, but at least we could give it a shot.
Oh, dear.. I can't even find your post in that mess D:
Post by: Keolino on November 13, 2013, 06:50:19 am
on the subject of making the game more known on kongregate:
http://www.kongregate.com/forums/1-kongregate/topics/72-updated-games?page=1
No idea how far that will take it, but at least we could give it a shot.
Oh, dear.. I can't even find your post in that mess D:
The link he posted is for when the game is already updated. I guess he just wanted to let us now that there is something like that on kong so that somebody can post there when 1.4 is finally out.
Post by: Naii_the_Baf on November 30, 2013, 09:56:36 pm
Post by: Higurashi on December 01, 2013, 04:36:06 am
Post by: Calambar on December 01, 2013, 07:29:52 pm
Post by: Blacksmith on December 01, 2013, 07:36:11 pm
Yeah... 1.4... better he fix this pvp bug first :/ Is he even alive? :]Ha ha I wondered that many times but he actually is. He just don't say when he will be absent, but he always cares and does his job.
Post by: dragonsdemesne on December 01, 2013, 09:57:42 pm
Post by: Marsu on December 02, 2013, 06:07:34 am
(since he makes no money from Elements other than whatever pittance he gets from ad revenue and Kong and the occasional donation)
...which is much.
Post by: Laxadarap on December 02, 2013, 02:31:40 pm
Post by: TheonlyrealBeef on December 02, 2013, 02:40:36 pm
Actually, iirc, ad revenue doesn't even cover the forum cost.Forum ad revenue =/= game ad revenue.
Different ads, different people gaining the money. Game ads don't contribute to funding forums.
Post by: Laxadarap on December 02, 2013, 03:39:41 pm
Post by: ColorlessGreen on December 02, 2013, 04:12:22 pm
Oh, I was under the impression that zanz forwarded at least some of that money to admins for forum runnings and such.
I was under the impression that he was supposed to (or people thought he was supposed to) and didn't, hence the bill not getting paid and UTA's server expiring. It is currently primarily paid by an anonymous donor (see antiaverage's post on the subject).
Post by: rowcla on December 02, 2013, 08:55:29 pm
Post by: TribalTrouble on December 02, 2013, 09:42:25 pm
So, is the new look for ingame marks final? I can't say I like it, and frankly, I much much much prefer the old style...Strange, because I actually like the change.
Post by: Keeps on December 02, 2013, 10:13:41 pm
Originally this was a portfolio project, servers were funded by donors, donations helped fund the game, etc.
With signing with Kong, this became a profitable game, in the form of ad revenue is enough for Zanz and his partner to make a nice nest egg on.
EtG is still not Zanz's primary job, he still disappears for large amounts of time.
The additional things such as these forums and chat and that, come from other sources, they are community funded.
The community remains to have a strong bond, with the ownership (Atleast I suspect as long as Higgs is here.)
Post by: antiaverage on December 03, 2013, 05:27:15 am
The additional things such as these forums and chat and that, come from other sources, they are community funded.
Yep, at the moment all community stuff is hosted and maintained by me and paid for by an anonymous community member.
Higurashi is the community builder, the grand matriarch to us all, and the closest thing to a direct line to the creator/owner of the game.
Post by: OdinVanguard on December 05, 2013, 05:00:04 pm
Post by: Keeps on December 05, 2013, 05:43:30 pm
Post by: OdinVanguard on December 07, 2013, 02:31:07 am
NPC name: Overloaded Phase Dragons
Stats:
hp = 900
mark multiplier = 1
draw multiplier = x2
You spot two phase dragons off in the distance heading your way. They are known for their wisdom . Perhaps you can reason with them... As the close, you realize something is wrong, chaotic energies crackle along their skin. They speak in a paniced voice: "Run mortal, we can't hold the rift any..." Their appearance suddenly turns feral, the arcing lightening building stronger.The energy is too strong to contain...You must either run or ride out the storm... They're gonna blow!
Kong Badge: "Riders on the Storm"(for those who don't know the song reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riders_on_the_Storm)
To earn the badge, you have to: "Find and take down the 'Overloaded Phase Dragons' before the deck runs out."
Its deck size is 10 cards, which bumps to 20 after the multiplier, so to beat the NPC you only have to survive for about (20-7)/2 = 6 turns... Having tested it out, thats not really too hard as long as you put out some creatures to absorb all the damage spells.
Taking down that many hp before its deck runs out, however, should be a fun challenge (likely requiring some clever deck building).
Post by: Keeps on December 07, 2013, 03:45:00 am
Just saying
Post by: dragtom on December 07, 2013, 12:51:54 pm
Post by: antiaverage on December 07, 2013, 07:58:32 pm
kongregate never gives a single game more than 4 badges.
Yeah, so probably would be better as an in-game achievement system. Doubt that would happen any time soon, though.
Post by: Squidymon on December 09, 2013, 09:20:48 pm
And besides. That's fairly easy and doubt it would happen.kongregate never gives a single game more than 4 badges.
Yeah, so probably would be better as an in-game achievement system. Doubt that would happen any time soon, though.
Post by: andretimpa on December 10, 2013, 04:20:13 pm
Its deck size is 10 cards, which bumps to 20 after the multiplier, so to beat the NPC you only have to survive for about (20-7)/2 = 6 turns... Having tested it out, thats not really too hard as long as you put out some creatures to absorb all the damage spells.
Taking down that many hp before its deck runs out, however, should be a fun challenge (likely requiring some clever deck building).
Since it has no PC you can easily keep it from decking out with RoL + nightmare + Eternity. This should give you time to play 900 damage more easily.
Post by: J6U on December 15, 2013, 05:58:11 am
I just had an awesome idea for how to make use of the 900 hp cap for a cool rare NPC encounter... and a Kong badge to go with it:
NPC name: Overloaded Phase Dragons
Stats:
hp = 900
mark multiplier = 1
draw multiplier = x2You spot two phase dragons off in the distance heading your way. They are known for their wisdom . Perhaps you can reason with them... As the close, you realize something is wrong, chaotic energies crackle along their skin. They speak in a paniced voice: "Run mortal, we can't hold the rift any..." Their appearance suddenly turns feral, the arcing lightening building stronger.The energy is too strong to contain...You must either run or ride out the storm... They're gonna blow!Kong Badge: "Riders on the Storm"
(for those who don't know the song reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riders_on_the_Storm)
To earn the badge, you have to: "Find and take down the 'Overloaded Phase Dragons' before the deck runs out."
Its deck size is 10 cards, which bumps to 20 after the multiplier, so to beat the NPC you only have to survive for about (20-7)/2 = 6 turns... Having tested it out, thats not really too hard as long as you put out some creatures to absorb all the damage spells.
Taking down that many hp before its deck runs out, however, should be a fun challenge (likely requiring some clever deck building).
What about shard of wisdom too? It gives moar lightning effects for the dragon.
Post by: Naii_the_Baf on December 18, 2013, 11:31:32 pm
Post by: Keolino on December 19, 2013, 06:57:35 am
I've been testing(I mean, playing in) Elements 1.4 (http://elementsthegame.com/development.html) and I don't like the look of the permanent cards. I don't like the look of Golden Hourglass/Electrum Hourglass, and pendulum's upper marks: the mark above the big/center mark DOES NOT CHANGE. Please, could you restore the permanent card looks like it was in Elements 1.326 (http://elementsthegame.com)? The permanent card looks quite do look better.
About the pendulums: This is intended. Your mark shows one of the elements, and the upper "mark" in the pendulum shows the other element which this card will produce each turn. And the biggest one in the middle shows which quanta you get the next time that this card activates. Nothing wrong here...
And about the new look of the permanents, I really like that. It makes the cards look more complex and more interesting when they are derping around on the field, which I think is a nice change.
Post by: iancudorinmarian on December 19, 2013, 10:02:42 am
I agree with Keolino, it's nicier to see the whole card.I've been testing(I mean, playing in) Elements 1.4 (http://elementsthegame.com/development.html) and I don't like the look of the permanent cards. I don't like the look of Golden Hourglass/Electrum Hourglass, and pendulum's upper marks: the mark above the big/center mark DOES NOT CHANGE. Please, could you restore the permanent card looks like it was in Elements 1.326 (http://elementsthegame.com)? The permanent card looks quite do look better.
About the pendulums: This is intended. Your mark shows one of the elements, and the upper "mark" in the pendulum shows the other element which this card will produce each turn. And the biggest one in the middle shows which quanta you get the next time that this card activates. Nothing wrong here...
And about the new look of the permanents, I really like that. It makes the cards look more complex and more interesting when they are derping around on the field, which I think is a nice change.
Post by: OdinVanguard on December 19, 2013, 06:59:01 pm
I tried testing it with that and found out that it will outright shred any deck not using some fairly heavy duty healing or a mirror shield... Kinda mean to make it both nigh unkillable AND highly lethal.What about shard of wisdom too? It gives moar lightning effects for the dragon.I just had an awesome idea for how to make use of the 900 hp cap for a cool rare NPC encounter... and a Kong badge to go with it:
NPC name: Overloaded Phase Dragons
Stats:
hp = 900
mark multiplier = 1
draw multiplier = x2You spot two phase dragons off in the distance heading your way. They are known for their wisdom . Perhaps you can reason with them... As the close, you realize something is wrong, chaotic energies crackle along their skin. They speak in a paniced voice: "Run mortal, we can't hold the rift any..." Their appearance suddenly turns feral, the arcing lightening building stronger.The energy is too strong to contain...You must either run or ride out the storm... They're gonna blow!Kong Badge: "Riders on the Storm"
(for those who don't know the song reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riders_on_the_Storm)
To earn the badge, you have to: "Find and take down the 'Overloaded Phase Dragons' before the deck runs out."
Its deck size is 10 cards, which bumps to 20 after the multiplier, so to beat the NPC you only have to survive for about (20-7)/2 = 6 turns... Having tested it out, thats not really too hard as long as you put out some creatures to absorb all the damage spells.
Taking down that many hp before its deck runs out, however, should be a fun challenge (likely requiring some clever deck building).
Right now, its only moderately lethal... but then again, I only tested it out against the premade decks available in the bestiary... so maybe its not so bad.
On an unrelated note, since there are NPCs with :chroma marks, will players also be able to choose :chroma as a mark in v1.4?
Post by: Keeps on December 20, 2013, 07:23:11 am
Honestly, I think something like
7 Reputation from early quests are applied to all marks
from there beating a false god with a given mark gives 1 reputation for the first kill of that god (26 reputation)
5 challenge levels in each tower 1 reputation for each level completed in a given tower (5 reputation), in these areas beating the highest difficulty, you get a chance to win one of 12 new mark cards for the respective element.
clearing an area of 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 areas one time each give 1 reputation per mark (5 reputation)
7 special story quests, completion with a given mark (7 reptuation)
for a total of 50 reputation per mark
then
a couple side notes, was zanz said we shouldn't be surprised seeing our arena decks bleed over to the board. I would have those deck attack players that is if you go into an area, and one of the decks is spawned, you are automatically battling the deck. I would have it populate 12 of the squares a random pull of 3 of the top 20 decks from each area of the arena.
so
10 reputation in an element, you can use upped cards of the same element.
20 reputation in an element, you can use the special mark cards in your deck
30 reputation in an element, using that mark, you no longer have to battle arena decks automatically, you can use upped versions of the special mark
40 reputation in an element, using that mark, you can play as a quarter blood (125 HP).
50 reputation in an element, using that mark, allows you to play as a HB on the board if you are using that mark. (150 HP).
50 reputation in every element grants you the chromatic mark in both PVP and on the Board.
Special Marks can not be auto selected, but come in cards,
Playing the Mark replaces the current Mark
None of the special Marks produce quanta, instead they have thematic field effects.
Pendulums no longer produce quanta if on the mark swing
Marks are indestructible, stackable.
Effects would be things like.
Mark of Shadow -> Your opponent loses 1 :light quanta at the end of their turn all darkness creatures get +0/+1 absorbs :darkness
Mark of Plague -> At the end of a player's turn, All creatures lose 1 health, to a maximum of 50% of their max health rounded up. absorbs :death
Mark of Dawn -> Your opponent loses 1 :darkness quanta at the end of their turn all light creatures get +0/+1 aborbs :light
Mark of Chaos -> One random spell effect occurs to one random target at the end of your turn, if the effect can not target the target choosen nothing happens absorbs :entropy
Mark of Grounding -> The next X creature attacking with flying loses flying where X is the number of Marks of Grounding in play. absorbs :gravity
Mark of Consumption -> each creature gets +1/-1 when attacking. absorbs :fire
Mark of Roots -> Each :life permanent has a 15% chance of coming back into play if destroyed. absorbs :life
Mark of Flight -> The next X creature attacking without flying gains flying where X is the number of Marks of Flightin play. absorbs : :air
Mark of Hardness-> You gain 3 max HP at the end of your turn. absorbs :earth
Mark of Leaking -> Draw 1 additional card if you can during your draw phases, discard a card if you have a card in your hand at the end of your turn. :water
Mark of Stopping -> Both players can hold 1 less card in their hands. absorbs :time
Anyways thats what I would like to see, along with another 100 cards,
But that's all wishful thinking.
Post by: Naii_the_Baf on December 21, 2013, 02:14:39 am
He hasn't said that is the plan. Last he was doing with reputation was increasing health.Honestly, I like a lot your Special Marks idea. It's a great thing to have in Elements 1.4, and it'll make tricky challenges in it. Hope Zanzarino (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/profile/?u=89) adds it!
Honestly, I think something like
7 Reputation from early quests are applied to all marks
from there beating a false god with a given mark gives 1 reputation for the first kill of that god (26 reputation)
5 challenge levels in each tower 1 reputation for each level completed in a given tower (5 reputation), in these areas beating the highest difficulty, you get a chance to win one of 12 new mark cards for the respective element.
clearing an area of 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 areas one time each give 1 reputation per mark (5 reputation)
7 special story quests, completion with a given mark (7 reptuation)
for a total of 50 reputation per mark
then
a couple side notes, was zanz said we shouldn't be surprised seeing our arena decks bleed over to the board. I would have those deck attack players that is if you go into an area, and one of the decks is spawned, you are automatically battling the deck. I would have it populate 12 of the squares a random pull of 3 of the top 20 decks from each area of the arena.
so
10 reputation in an element, you can use upped cards of the same element.
20 reputation in an element, you can use the special mark cards in your deck
30 reputation in an element, using that mark, you no longer have to battle arena decks automatically, you can use upped versions of the special mark
40 reputation in an element, using that mark, you can play as a quarter blood (125 HP).
50 reputation in an element, using that mark, allows you to play as a HB on the board if you are using that mark. (150 HP).
50 reputation in every element grants you the chromatic mark in both PVP and on the Board.
Special Marks can not be auto selected, but come in cards,
Playing the Mark replaces the current Mark
None of the special Marks produce quanta, instead they have thematic field effects.
Pendulums no longer produce quanta if on the mark swing
Marks are indestructible, stackable.
Effects would be things like.
Mark of Shadow -> Your opponent loses 1 :light quanta at the end of their turn all darkness creatures get +0/+1 absorbs :darkness
Mark of Plague -> At the end of a player's turn, All creatures lose 1 health, to a maximum of 50% of their max health rounded up. absorbs :death
Mark of Dawn -> Your opponent loses 1 :darkness quanta at the end of their turn all light creatures get +0/+1 aborbs :light
Mark of Chaos -> One random spell effect occurs to one random target at the end of your turn, if the effect can not target the target choosen nothing happens absorbs :entropy
Mark of Grounding -> The next X creature attacking with flying loses flying where X is the number of Marks of Grounding in play. absorbs :gravity
Mark of Consumption -> each creature gets +1/-1 when attacking. absorbs :fire
Mark of Roots -> Each :life permanent has a 15% chance of coming back into play if destroyed. absorbs :life
Mark of Flight -> The next X creature attacking without flying gains flying where X is the number of Marks of Flightin play. absorbs : :air
Mark of Hardness-> You gain 3 max HP at the end of your turn. absorbs :earth
Mark of Leaking -> Draw 1 additional card if you can during your draw phases, discard a card if you have a card in your hand at the end of your turn. :water
Mark of Stopping -> Both players can hold 1 less card in their hands. absorbs :time
Anyways thats what I would like to see, along with another 100 cards,
But that's all wishful thinking.
Also: You forgot the Aether Special Mark. My idea:
Mark of Electricity: The next X creature loses random HP from 1 to 5 where X is the number of Marks of Electricity in play. Every 2 Marks of Electricity max random damage increases by 1.Example: Creature #7 got the hit. 3 Marks of Electricity in play: Next creature to get hit is creature #10. If there were only 9 creatures, then the next one is #1. And it continues like that. absorbs :aether
Post by: furballdn on December 24, 2013, 04:21:43 am
Post by: iancudorinmarian on December 24, 2013, 02:57:49 pm
Late reply, but I think it needs to be said. Thank you Zanzarino, for all the tireless work you put into elements for the community. You might not believe it, but I always felt Elements would feel a lot better with some kind of overworld map, but the way you implemented it just completely blew me away. It seems you've given the game a very dynamic change, and it feels very fresh and invigorating. I don't have all the time and passion I used to, but I can say that this update certainly piqued my interest.I agree with you. I almost lost my interest, then BAM, super-mega-ultra update coming. Now I play every day for at least 2 hours :)
Post by: eaglgenes101 on December 29, 2013, 02:39:48 am
And just an idea that came off the top of my head, what if evolutionary algorithms were worked into 1.4x? Might be interesting to see NPC's change over time and overcome bad design...
Post by: Zawadx on January 07, 2014, 10:48:45 am
In general I would like to keep:
AI0 like deck in level 0-10 areas
AI1 like deck in level 10-20 areas
AI2 like deck in level 20-30 areas
AI3 like deck in level 30-40 areas
AI4 like deck in level 40-50 areas
FG like decks in level 50-70 areas
Higher level areas will come as well.
If all the levels are roughly equivalent (e.g. Once you reach level X, you need to kill 10 enemies of level X before you can advance to the next level), then the users will not be having fun in level 0 to 30. Starter decks are approx. level 15, which means a person will spend his first 15 level grinding decks which his own can easily beat. There's no fun in that, and not many newbies will stay long enough to go beyond that. Of course, you could venture into higher level areas to have a bit fun, but most newbies might be overwhelmed by that.
in the current game, players play AI0 and AI1 a couple of times before moving on. AI2 poses a challenge if you aren't experienced with strategy, but once you know the basics even they become boring. And once you start optimizing decks to the fullest, AI3 also becomes boring. Therefore the levels should reflect this:
AI0 and AI1 like decks in level 0-4 areas (forming a tutorial of sorts)
AI2 like decks in level 5-9 areas
AI3 like decks in level 10-24 areas
AI4 like decks in level 25-39 areas
This layout make it similar to Arena as it is now. I think NPCs more powerful than AI4 would encompass levels 40-59, and False Gods would come in after level 60 (meaning they need an upgrade). But this means that the number of levels would need to be reduced to 80 or so.
Another suggestion is that we could have a PvP mode, where instead of NPCs, Player tokens are shown roaming about. This would allow us to wander and challenge other players. Alternatively, players could send a Wandering Minion out each day, which would be like arena, only more RPGy.
Post by: ColorlessGreen on January 07, 2014, 04:14:50 pm
Post by: andretimpa on January 07, 2014, 05:06:29 pm
Post by: Zawadx on January 08, 2014, 04:10:29 am
Yeah, you can beat some of the level 50-ish AIs with ease just by modding your starter deck (and more importantly, knowing what you are doing :P)
I do not believe that that means you are required to fight against things of your level. To the best of my understanding, you should be able to go basically anywhere on the map (and fight opponents of any level) any time you feel like. The comment you quoted was him explaining the approximate strengths of the various NPC levels at various locations on the map, not the opponents you will be required to face when you are at those levels.
I know that, but the problem is whether the newbies will know that as well. I mean if they are labeled as Level 0, they might be afraid to venture out into even a level 5 area. So it should be configured such that Newbies know that they can beat even level 30 with a little modification from their starter decks. At least the basics of deckbuilding should be shown to the newbies.
Post by: andretimpa on January 08, 2014, 11:59:26 am
Yeah, you can beat some of the level 50-ish AIs with ease just by modding your starter deck (and more importantly, knowing what you are doing :P)I do not believe that that means you are required to fight against things of your level. To the best of my understanding, you should be able to go basically anywhere on the map (and fight opponents of any level) any time you feel like. The comment you quoted was him explaining the approximate strengths of the various NPC levels at various locations on the map, not the opponents you will be required to face when you are at those levels.
I know that, but the problem is whether the newbies will know that as well. I mean if they are labeled as Level 0, they might be afraid to venture out into even a level 5 area. So it should be configured such that Newbies know that they can beat even level 30 with a little modification from their starter decks. At least the basics of deckbuilding should be shown to the newbies.
Maybe some new quests would push the noobs away from the level 0 comfort zone (more or less like the sequence of AI0 - AI1 - AI2 - score quests do in the current version)
Post by: yee on January 15, 2014, 08:44:10 pm
Name: Timemachine
Hp 70
Mark x1
Draw x1
Deck x1
Text: Something wierd is going around here. You might feel deja vu, when you redraw the crature you just played on the field. It looks like some things happen much faster in hourglass and sometimes your allies are caught in timebubles. Also the Timemachine brings out cratures from old times and you might even meet an ancient god, who can grant immortality.
Post by: Essence on January 19, 2014, 03:18:15 am
Post by: Naii_the_Baf on January 21, 2014, 12:14:44 am
Post by: eljoemo on January 21, 2014, 01:04:01 am
I don't know why or what, but there's this error I found: I pressed More Coins, All Cards, More Quanta(to max level), Mark level 10, and turned on Chaos Mode. I built a fully upped LS deck, and went against a Fake God. Here comes the error: When it's my turn, I draw a card and automatically pass my turn without doing anything more than discarding. Is this because of the Fake Gods or because of the buttons I pressed? :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(
Chaos mode is elements without turns. It is in its nature very chaotic. Once you have full hand you're basically locked into discarding. Basically, don't play chaos mode except for the lulz
Post by: andretimpa on January 21, 2014, 01:34:55 am
Post by: Odii Odsen on January 30, 2014, 10:30:31 pm
Post by: eaglgenes101 on March 03, 2014, 10:56:29 pm
Post by: Keeps on March 04, 2014, 12:36:59 am
December 23, 2013, 09:00:00 PM
His last post was December 15th, to fix the PVP issue
His last post on 1.4 for August 26th, half a year ago.
Post by: eaglgenes101 on March 04, 2014, 12:45:19 am
Post by: Jangoo on March 04, 2014, 07:28:29 pm
:(
Here I was hoping to wander those plains some time soon.
Post by: Haruko on March 05, 2014, 05:33:56 pm
Post by: Snopel on March 08, 2014, 09:35:43 pm
It's good in the world with those badass massive HP hulks, but having 150 HP with the AI3, AI4 and AI5 pretty much makes you untouchable. Ive beaten False Gods with simple rush decks.
I think the Mark Upgrade should only be for the world. That way the other AIs are just like classic elements!
Its always nice to have the option of playing it classic against the AI you like. That's all.
Post by: Keolino on March 09, 2014, 08:10:40 am
I have a small nitpick about the mark upgrades.
It's good in the world with those badass massive HP hulks, but having 150 HP with the AI3, AI4 and AI5 pretty much makes you untouchable. Ive beaten False Gods with simple rush decks.
I think the Mark Upgrade should only be for the world. That way the other AIs are just like classic elements!
Its always nice to have the option of playing it classic against the AI you like. That's all.
The AI 1, AI 2, AI 3, AI4 and False God buttons will be removed in the final version (And replaced by a random-system which lets you choose an enemy level area, lets say Level 10-20, and you will then battle a random enemy with that strength). You will only be able to find those guys on the map. And False Gods will be more difficult because you have to beat at least 1 of his minions before him, so you probably won't have all health when you start your fight against FGs.
Anyway, there won't be classic farm-battles against thsoe old 13 AI3s, for example. Because the new Level 30-40 random button (which has about the same strength as AI3?) will have at least 50-100 different decks.
And precisely because the mark upgrades make you stronger against the known enemies, there are new enemies with even more power which wait for you to challenge them, so that thing won't get boring.
Post by: dragtom on March 09, 2014, 10:55:58 am
Zanz once stated that he wants decks to focus around winning rather than rewards
-which was a reason to prevent vampire EM's-
But now making EM's (on the minion) has become way more important.
Post by: Jaydos99 on March 17, 2014, 01:49:40 pm
I was thinking that perhaps the NPC's could be hidden in the field. Such that if you want to travel to a certain spot in game, randomly you would be attacked by an NPC with a level in line with the area level. One-off mini boss NPC's could guard the exits of an area with a level in line with the level of the adjacent area. This gives the new player a goal to "break out" of each beginner area and explore, on top of the quests to keep things interesting.
The exact mechanics would have to be worked out, but effectively this would alter the way that a new player can travel the map. Forcing them to buy better cards and create stronger strategies in order to move further around the map. Just an idea but it would lead very nicely into an RPG/storyline based version of Elements.
Post by: Jyiber on March 17, 2014, 08:25:42 pm
Yes, it might be a little bit slower and seem suffocating to those with short attention spans, but it could also be used to introduce ambush mechanics (random encounters) and it would make the map seem bigger.
Other ideas:
Randomly spawning "events" like creatures that take up spaces on the map. They can give the players free cards or electrum. This would also have the duel benefit of making exploring a fun task; especially for new players. Oh, the power of instant gratification.
...and the hated and feared paid content. I already know the policy on that, but hear me out. Extra areas of the map to explore. It could be cheap: $0.99-2.00 range.
Post by: dawn to dusk on March 18, 2014, 10:52:24 am
Post by: Keolino on March 18, 2014, 02:45:34 pm
Didn't zanz say a big no on the topic of paid content? He said he will refrain from implementing it and the only way for users to pay is to donate directly to zanz himself?
Yep, Zanz is against paid content/payment for this game in any way, aside from donation.
Post by: Jyiber on March 18, 2014, 05:50:36 pm
Why the guy doesn't want to make more money, especially if the idea is one that won't damage game fairness, is completely beyond me.
Post by: Keolino on March 18, 2014, 07:51:52 pm
Exactly.
Why the guy doesn't want to make more money, especially if the idea is one that won't damage game fairness, is completely beyond me.
Money isn't the most important thing for everyone after all. I probably wouldn't want paygates in a game I made as well. Using strategies which are normally used by big money-starveing companies would leave a bad taste in my mouth. (Aside from that, I would want to like and be liked by my whole community without any kids around whose parents don't want to pay for the games additional features. (like it was with my parents at times I couldn't pay for myself) It is NOT fair to leave anybody out of the whole content of the game. And each part of the map IS content.) <--- Anyway, those would be my reasons, zanz may have totally others. I just wanted to show that there are reasons.
I am not some greedy F2P-fanboy who sits on his money either, and definitely think that zanz deserves money for the pure awesomeness of a game that he made, so I donated sometimes in the past. If you want to show gratitude for the game he made, you can always donate. If you totally hate paying for games, you don't have to pay. If you don't have excess to money for payment cause of one reason or another, than that's fine too.
Post by: Jyiber on March 18, 2014, 10:25:14 pm
I've personally never been bothered by paid content in a free to play game. I've never spent a dime on it though... not because I'm greedy, but because it's not in my budget. My poor minimum wage income barely cover my rent after all (also why I can't donate), but I ask: why not take money from those rich kids who have it? As long as it's not something that gave a completely unfair advantage (i.e. holographic cards, unique marks).
I never realized there were those out there like yourself that viewed such simple marketing tricks with disdain. I mean, I agree that they're not exactly classy these days with the bad rep they've gained (nods to a couple unmentioned games) but again: "money is money".
Post by: ddevans96 on March 19, 2014, 04:06:58 am
Post by: Keolino on March 19, 2014, 08:35:14 am
No, I already understood all that. But at the end of the day, "money is money" and "the cost of living is too high". I'd go and find a meme with a developers need to eat too sign, but alas, I'm lazy.
I've personally never been bothered by paid content in a free to play game. I've never spent a dime on it though... not because I'm greedy, but because it's not in my budget. My poor minimum wage income barely cover my rent after all (also why I can't donate), but I ask: why not take money from those rich kids who have it? As long as it's not something that gave a completely unfair advantage (i.e. holographic cards, unique marks).
I never realized there were those out there like yourself that viewed such simple marketing tricks with disdain. I mean, I agree that they're not exactly classy these days with the bad rep they've gained (nods to a couple unmentioned games) but again: "money is money".
If Zanz wanted money for that game in any way, I would pay it. The game is awesome enough and I wouldn't mind paying for a good game. But if Zanz doesn't want money, then there is nothing for me to do here.
Our oppinion may differ because we look on it from different perspectives. I am at an age where living with your parents is still a totally normal thing, so aside from my car/notebook+games/some insurance stuff I don't have to pay for much. So no rent, food or family I have to pay for yet, and plenty spare money. I was always tought to think economical, so even once I move out, I am confident that I would have no problem managing my money with the minimum wages I get right now. I don't feel like I need or even wish for more money than I already have and get each month.
I am totally aware of the fact that minimum wages and a family at home can become an awful combination And every single dollar/euro/whatever can become really important, but not everybody is in desperate need for money either. Zanz is a developer with probably high enough wages (well, I guess. there are developers which don't get much money as well), as long as he thinks that he doesn't need/want money from this game, there is nothing for us to do here.
Unpopular opinion: If Zanz actually used Elements as a potential source of revenue, he might have a reason to do anything with it more than a couple times a year, and this game and community might not be in the pathetic lull it's in now.
that is probably true... But may be the other way around? With this game giving more money for zanz, he would invest more time in the game, leaving less time for his family/friends/whatever. So he isn't charging money, so he doesn't have to feel like he has to put (too) much work into the game...?
Post by: Keeps on March 19, 2014, 01:59:25 pm
He however is very protective of his properties, and isn't interested in giving them up anytime soon either. Finally, these properties like EtG are side ventures and he has a full time job as an engineer.
Because of this, we have the unique position of getting updates only during major break times, that's usually why you see a bunch of activity around Christmas time, and general maintenance only rest of the other times.
For everyone who is bothered by this, various community projects to build a 'new' EtG have been started, the one with the most traction is openEtG... support it with art, donations, etc, if you want further advancement. Otherwise, accept the nature of the EtG game as is.
Post by: maxy123 on March 22, 2014, 02:34:37 am
Post by: Higurashi on March 22, 2014, 04:43:32 am
Post by: maxy123 on March 22, 2014, 04:07:42 pm
Post by: vrt on March 30, 2014, 04:55:04 pm
Unpopular opinion: If Zanz actually used Elements as a potential source of revenue, he might have a reason to do anything with it more than a couple times a year, and this game and community might not be in the pathetic lull it's in now.
The same goes for the artwork, for the record.
Post by: ButtercupSaiyan on April 07, 2014, 02:30:59 am
Post by: Rastafla on April 10, 2014, 02:40:12 pm
The games is in an infinite loop and keeps flashing this msg and the game is locked. It doesnt accept input from mouse or keyboard.
(http://i.imgur.com/bfzKimJ.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/lpqg4I3.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/ZLnNmDW.png)
How it happened.
I started out as darkness and proceeded to do quests after quest. While I was going up to 500 score I happened to be clearing the chroma area, with 498 gold i entered the last elemental on screen and I killed it and arrived at this msg of "Elite elemental arrived" and no gold gain from last fight and instead got this infinite msg bug. It keeps flashing and fading out.
Post by: dawn to dusk on April 16, 2014, 03:39:11 am
for some reason, the life starting place was taken over and turned into nobody's land. i went to the next life area and back to where the life palace should have been but it was overrun by time elementals. seems to be a thing of chance though
may be an interesting way to gain reputation actually
Post by: ishner on April 17, 2014, 04:46:19 am
SEVERE BUG IN DEVELOPMENT version.
The games is in an infinite loop and keeps flashing this msg and the game is locked. It doesnt accept input from mouse or keyboard.
i confirm this bug.
to replicate stay in the central hex (the one with the :chroma palace) and repeatedly kill the enimeys there.
when they are all dead the game crashes.
Post by: OdinVanguard on April 17, 2014, 11:16:07 pm
Post by: eaglgenes101 on May 04, 2014, 01:23:51 am
And another pie-in-space idea: what if we could see other real-life players on our map and possibly interact with them?
Post by: hypnotank on May 07, 2014, 12:48:48 am
Post by: OdinVanguard on May 14, 2014, 12:53:43 am
I made a deck called 'The coin toss' it basically shows the unfair ness of some cards, with 5 hp if you can put a creature out on turn 1 you win, else Silence will silence you for the rest of the game. With 900 hp it would be unbeatable, just putting it out there that Silence is really way to powerful, especially saying you can have it in like a 15 card deck.Players may only have 6 of a given card in a deck...
So, in regular PvP, silence is not imbalanced.
With 900 hp, there would be a lot of decks that would be virtually unbeatable. But, you shouldn't judge a card's balance based on the NPC challenge decks that can be created with it.
NPCs that are difficult or even nearly impossilbe to beat are not necessarily a bad thing. It gives players a way to create and submit challenge ideas for others to try and overcome. As long as decks like that are used in special situations (e.g. questlines, world events, easter eggs) they can be quite fun.
It all comes down to how all these submitted NPC ideas end up getting used and distributed once v1.4 is released.
Arena decks could be a problem, however, if they are allowed to ramp up to 3x draw and over 200 HPs. In that case, silence would be badly imbalanced and could disrupt the arena meta-game pretty badly. I think that line of discussion may be better suited to other areas of the forum (card balance or arena related boards).
Post by: MasN on May 14, 2014, 09:07:47 pm
Post by: Submachine on May 15, 2014, 04:07:08 am
Post by: Rutarete on May 15, 2014, 04:26:58 am
AI is hard coded to not make long silence chains.It's hard coded to make it extremely unlikely for a long chain to happen, not to 'not make long chains'. This goes for black hole too, and maybe nightmare? (My memory isn't perfect here)
Post by: OdinVanguard on May 15, 2014, 11:42:30 pm
So is it basically just decreasing the probability of each consecutive chaining then? That seems reasonable enough to me.AI is hard coded to not make long silence chains.It's hard coded to make it extremely unlikely for a long chain to happen, not to 'not make long chains'. This goes for black hole too, and maybe nightmare? (My memory isn't perfect here)
Post by: eaglgenes101 on May 18, 2014, 07:12:22 pm
Post by: skyironsword on May 20, 2014, 09:29:45 pm
Post by: Aneninen on May 23, 2014, 05:47:44 pm
First of all, it looks cool indeed! Plus, that 'nostalgique' feeling – when I used to have save money for buying vanilla card and I used to be happy as the spin gave me any kind of card ^_^
The concept looks great; it's playable and exciting even if you don't add money/cards/etc. Many of the low-level opponents are fun to play against and still, somewhat challenging. The (rare) appear of those elite opponentis is great, though, unfortunately I've had to stop playing due to the bug mentioned before. If you meet that elite on the Oracle Palace screen, the game simply crashes and you have to start everything over.
However, I have some remarks as well.
(1) It's unclear how the program calculates the level of the submitted opponents. My creation has turned out to be Level25, even if it is just as weak as the decks on the first screen. Shouldn't certain factors, like using rare or upgraded cards affect the level?
(2) I think the game should give more information than a simple label about the estimated level of a screen. A newbie might not notice and might not understand it. In addition, a kind of tutorial about the basics of deck building should be added too. (I mean, remove the cards you don't need, sell them for good, buy some missing cards, etc.)
(3) An algorhythm (or manual control?) would be needed for fine-tuning the AI deck levels. Some of the very early decks are tougher than certain level20–40-ish decks. (Remember: I played as if I had started Elements wich this version.) Also, I've met some ridiculously low-level decks with rare weapons and shards. Should the game be to evade the 'rare card swarm' which is happening now, obtaining rare cards should be restricted. Eg. if the player's level is below 30, rares can't be obtained from a normal AI deck, below 45 shards can't be got etc. (With the exception of the elite AIs – that's the main function of them, isn't it?)
(4) The Palaces doesn't work for me. Is that normal? What is going to be the function of them?
(5) The correlation between the screens and the elements used by the appearing decks is on purpose, I suppose. What will happen to the rainbows and trios? How exactly the game places those?
(6) I don't know whether it's possible but, on the map there could be "significant points" and the AIs could move. The whole wandering would be much more exciting if you should reach a certain point for a Bazaar, or just for saving your process. (Especially, if certain cards could be bought only in the corresponding shops or, could be sold for more in a "dangerous" area, with moving AIs...?)
Sorry if these ideas has already been discussed, I've checked quite a few pages of this thread but, needless to say, it's too long to read everything.
Post by: Blacksmith on June 28, 2014, 02:48:24 pm
Summarize of the first 53 pages.
Including important message to Zanzarino.
Including important message to Zanzarino.
Heya people this took me 222 minutes (3 hours and 41 minutes) to make so from now on please think before making posts. And preferingly not anymore post about how great this is. I have not included bugs into this but the rest is there.
Summarize of the new patch. Including common questions and detailed info.
Zanz speaking.
In Elements 1.4 I intend to get rid of the old level 0,1,2,3... grind and replace it with a map populated with a wide variety of enemies and, eventually, quests. It will take a while and I will need some help so I am going to divide the task in several phases where the community can participate.
Phase 1: The bestiary
To populate a map I'll need NPC's, create and submit your NPC here:
http://www.elementsthegame.com/bestiary.html
The beta version of something that we can use to create NPC's, they will vary in level between 0 and 120. In the interface you get to pick an image, a name, a description, a deck and some stats for the NPC that you would like to see in the game.
Soon we will also be able to test the current NPC and give them thumbs up or down.
Phase 2: Test the new NPC's
A *very* beta 1.4 is now in the trainer so that we can start testing the new NPC's.
The database is going to start a coarse tuning of the NPC level based on won/lost ratios, please try to be fair, refrain from rating your own deck and try not to use the trainer quanta boost while testing those new decks.
Phase 3: Create a World
In progress:
http://www.elementsthegame.com/development.html
FAQ:
Can we have something faster to set HP?
Just type whatever number you like where is says hp:____ just underneath the HP bar.
Does this replace arena?
Even though i recycled the arena interface to save time, this has nothing to do with the arena and nothing will change with the arena; but I would like to see the your arena decks wondering on the map in a level appropriate zone.
900 hp, isn't that too much?
The NPC creator is just a sandbox tool, it is not part of the game, we are going to need all kind of NPC's, from level 0 critters with 5 HP that give next to nothing as a reward to rare-elite NPC that are hard to find and very hard to kill.
If a "pinata" NPC with 900hp and no defenses is fun to hit with huge numbers... why not add it to the game? That is why I removed most restrictions.
What is going to happen to the old AI0,1,2,3,4 and FG?
They can all stay and find a new home on the map, they just need a name (if they do not have one yet) and a description, the old FG's can even get their own zones as local bosses, surrounded by smaller minions.
In general I would like to keep:
AI0 like deck in level 0-10 areas
AI1 like deck in level 10-20 areas
AI2 like deck in level 20-30 areas
AI3 like deck in level 30-40 areas
AI4 like deck in level 40-50 areas
FG like decks in level 50-70 areas
Higher level areas will come as well.
How does the level work on the map?
With the map system the players are not going to get a random opponent anymore, they can go to a specific area on the map, say, for instance, an area with level 20"ish" darkness NPC's and adjust their deck to kill efficiently those decks. Elite NPC will also randomly appear and will be much harder to kill, but will give better rewards (of course). The map is also going to allow events, maybe next week an invasion of rustlers following the lead of a leaf dragon boss, maybe with a quest asking you to save the world of Elements from their leafy menace.
How about the kongregate badges?
The old AI's will still be around in some form, badges will be adjusted accordingly.
Taken from another thread.
Taken from another thread.
Taken from another post.
Spoiler for rewards.
Spoiler for other questions and statements.
In Elements 1.4 I intend to get rid of the old level 0,1,2,3... grind and replace it with a map populated with a wide variety of enemies and, eventually, quests. It will take a while and I will need some help so I am going to divide the task in several phases where the community can participate.
Phase 1: The bestiary
To populate a map I'll need NPC's, create and submit your NPC here:
http://www.elementsthegame.com/bestiary.html
The beta version of something that we can use to create NPC's, they will vary in level between 0 and 120. In the interface you get to pick an image, a name, a description, a deck and some stats for the NPC that you would like to see in the game.
Soon we will also be able to test the current NPC and give them thumbs up or down.
Phase 2: Test the new NPC's
A *very* beta 1.4 is now in the trainer so that we can start testing the new NPC's.
The database is going to start a coarse tuning of the NPC level based on won/lost ratios, please try to be fair, refrain from rating your own deck and try not to use the trainer quanta boost while testing those new decks.
Phase 3: Create a World
In progress:
http://www.elementsthegame.com/development.html
FAQ:
Can we have something faster to set HP?
Just type whatever number you like where is says hp:____ just underneath the HP bar.
Does this replace arena?
Even though i recycled the arena interface to save time, this has nothing to do with the arena and nothing will change with the arena; but I would like to see the your arena decks wondering on the map in a level appropriate zone.
900 hp, isn't that too much?
The NPC creator is just a sandbox tool, it is not part of the game, we are going to need all kind of NPC's, from level 0 critters with 5 HP that give next to nothing as a reward to rare-elite NPC that are hard to find and very hard to kill.
If a "pinata" NPC with 900hp and no defenses is fun to hit with huge numbers... why not add it to the game? That is why I removed most restrictions.
What is going to happen to the old AI0,1,2,3,4 and FG?
They can all stay and find a new home on the map, they just need a name (if they do not have one yet) and a description, the old FG's can even get their own zones as local bosses, surrounded by smaller minions.
In general I would like to keep:
AI0 like deck in level 0-10 areas
AI1 like deck in level 10-20 areas
AI2 like deck in level 20-30 areas
AI3 like deck in level 30-40 areas
AI4 like deck in level 40-50 areas
FG like decks in level 50-70 areas
Higher level areas will come as well.
How does the level work on the map?
With the map system the players are not going to get a random opponent anymore, they can go to a specific area on the map, say, for instance, an area with level 20"ish" darkness NPC's and adjust their deck to kill efficiently those decks. Elite NPC will also randomly appear and will be much harder to kill, but will give better rewards (of course). The map is also going to allow events, maybe next week an invasion of rustlers following the lead of a leaf dragon boss, maybe with a quest asking you to save the world of Elements from their leafy menace.
How about the kongregate badges?
The old AI's will still be around in some form, badges will be adjusted accordingly.
Taken from another thread.
Akebono temporarily moved in the area 106,103. (trainer, CTRL+F5).
In the final version false gods will appear in rare occasions and randomly on the map in areas level 60 or higher.
The Oracle will also find one for you once every day and mark its location on the map.
To approach a false god it is necessary to defeat at least one of their minions, any damage taken while in a false god lair will be permanent: next duel does not start at hpmax. (does not happen in the trainer yet)
Now the problem is: akebono has its own minion (half-blood strength npc) but the other false gods would like one too, if you feel creative please post your minions in the bestiary (and here).
Feedback about the FG mechanics is also welcome.
Taken from another thread.
These are the current NPCs for the starting areas:
Area Level > 0 (palace) 5 (area I) 5 (area I, elite) :entropy erwin, lycanthrope Chaos-Scout, Quantaless Elemental Chaos Devlet :death virus, corpse Bone Creep, Reversite Poison Knight :gravity graviton soldier, graviton recruit Graviton guard squad, Graviton shock troop Colossal Drake :earth antlion, zircon Pirates, Antlion Herd Grinder :life rustler, wandering peasant forest spirit, lively cat knight of healing :fire firebug, fast phoenix graviton fire eater. spiritblaze knight of fire :water mind reader, jelly fish ice wall, crawler Calm Waters :light photon, apprentice of light solar shield, flaming angel proest of weak :air butterfly, mosquito storm caller, sevet flyn :time undead soldier, familiar deja vu Dune Walker, Dark Ghost Anubis :darkness bat, pest Shade, Scourge Dark Devlet :aether spider lair, divine spark local storm, mirage Immortal Spirit :rainbow reingard, oracle squire Gordon, Wanderer Prism
Currently in the trainer (CTRL+F5)
Suggestions for the missing ones? (???) You can still submit your own NPC candidate.
Comments?
Taken from another post.
@zanzarino:
Making the players choose to play against 1 specific deck is a bad idea, in my whole opinion. there will be a perfect counter for each one and they will become much more farmable than the current levels.
It would be fine if NPCs give you a random opponent between several different decks, like the current AIs.
If you enter a zone and kill all of the antlions because you want to farm them, they will all be dead and then you'll have to wait for them to respawn. In the while an angry 900hp elite Antlion will run after you trying to get revenge for your massacre.
Official answer: the map will have an AI attached to the mob spawning. Sitting in an area for farming will do no good.
Spoiler for rewards.
The reward is going to be based on the NPC level, I'll have to refine the number of spins etc. later.
The electrum reward is probably going to be
Reward = 1 + NPClevel*2
Triple the reward if elite, double if EM. Master an elite to get X6.
This is pretty much what the arena settled upon: level 10 will give 21 :electrum, level 50 101 :electrum
The money you lose if defeated should be reward/2 (lose to a level 10 = get poached for 10 :electrum)
Hardcore mode could be something to experiment with: if you lose, you lose one of the cards in your deck. (Please refrain from freaking about about nypmhs yet; there are solutions and we will get there if this is something worth exploring. E.g. your card turns into a broken card if rare, and can be fixed by paying an adequate (read expensive) amount of :electrum)
The spin reward will probably be something like
level 0-10: 1 spin
level 10-20: 2 spins
level 20-30: 3 spins (as in current level 3)
level 30-40: 5 spins
level 40-50: 1 upped spin
level 50-60: 2 upped spins
level 60-70: 3 upped spins (as in current FG)
level 70-80: 4 upped spins
level 80-90: 5 upped spins
level 90 and above: 5 upped spins + 1 special spin for rares
All of the above to be reviewed, balanced, reviewed again, then fine tuned, polished and released in the game.
The electrum reward is probably going to be
Reward = 1 + NPClevel*2
Triple the reward if elite, double if EM. Master an elite to get X6.
This is pretty much what the arena settled upon: level 10 will give 21 :electrum, level 50 101 :electrum
The money you lose if defeated should be reward/2 (lose to a level 10 = get poached for 10 :electrum)
Hardcore mode could be something to experiment with: if you lose, you lose one of the cards in your deck. (Please refrain from freaking about about nypmhs yet; there are solutions and we will get there if this is something worth exploring. E.g. your card turns into a broken card if rare, and can be fixed by paying an adequate (read expensive) amount of :electrum)
The spin reward will probably be something like
level 0-10: 1 spin
level 10-20: 2 spins
level 20-30: 3 spins (as in current level 3)
level 30-40: 5 spins
level 40-50: 1 upped spin
level 50-60: 2 upped spins
level 60-70: 3 upped spins (as in current FG)
level 70-80: 4 upped spins
level 80-90: 5 upped spins
level 90 and above: 5 upped spins + 1 special spin for rares
All of the above to be reviewed, balanced, reviewed again, then fine tuned, polished and released in the game.
Spoiler for other questions and statements.
- Npc decks with bad rating gets removed
- Zanz also said don't pay attention to level right now, that will come, right now the levels are totally off, as you can make a level 0 and have it show up as level 80 and i've fought some level 20s that were harder than some level 70s...
- Added rating to the stats displayed in the trainer. If you want to resubmit a deck with improved description etc. resubmit the same deck adding a v2 after the name.
- Can someone explain me the rating system of the NPC?
If my deck has 4 Wins and 0 Losses and 50% positive rating, does that mean that 2 of 4 didn't vote and 2 thumbed me up?
Because if two of them did downvote I would be at 0%, right?
......the latter is correct. You had 3 upvotes and 1 downvote. 2 upvotes, 2 no-votes would be 100%. - Arena will remain unchanged.
- Note: you get one vote per area, killing 20 times the same mob and giving it 20 thumbs up still counts as 1 thumb up.
- quote from Zanz "More cards will come, have faith.
- Marks will be upgradable several times when you have the required reputation with an element (Mark I to Mark X).
Each upgrade at the moment gives 5 extra HP's (to be balanced).
Upgraded marks can not be used in pvp.
Special message to Zanz.
Card ideas and art section (CIA)
Buffs, nerfs and other card changes.
Nerfin Dim is a must!!
Changes regarding patch 1.4 and the game.
Other changes.
I got some contacts on kongregate eventually I'll be able to change the new badges and also add new patch on the front page like this:
Changes regarding you.
I just want you to know that 1 simply silly post like. I'm working on a thing right now I won't be able to do much for a year. can mean so extremely much for the community. Humans has an ability to expect the worst scenarios when nothing else is said and many here including myself has or do believe that you don't care about this game at all no more. Even if you got a so called "bad reason" it's still better to say it than not to say it. At least it shows that you care a little. I'd like to add that I still have fate in you and think you made 1 of the best ccg's around!!!
Thank you for reading Blacks
- The Cia section is renewing itself and will pick the absolutely most liked cards at the very moment into the armory. Don't be afraid to pick new cards. I don't think you should be afraid of hearing "why didn't you pick my card, it's much better and other messages alike.
I believe that a few new cards could be just as important as the whole new patch! - I'm sure you would get lots of good art for free if you just asked for it! Say yes to this and I'll start a thread. Note: Vrt already made new art to 3 cards that has been added yet. http://elementscommunity.org/forum/card-art/stuff-i-made/168/
- More foil card would be fun but not a high priority. http://elementscommunity.org/forum/card-art/new-foil-card(s)/
Buffs, nerfs and other card changes.
- I know that it's often a bad thing to nerf something after it's been released , that it's better to post something and then buff it. Either way Dim shields needs a nerf now.
A card is allowed to change meta for a while but dim has changed the meta from the very beginning, forcing most decks to include extra cards. Dim shield is not highly overpowered but the way is function is incredibly boring unlike for example Super nova( which is also slightly op but in a way that increases creativity ). After 56 pages in the nerf section the conclusion is that dim needs to be nerfed to last 2 turns! no cost decrease or no other chagnes. Possibly use Odiis nerf versio which you can read here: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/nerf-this-card!/dimensional-shield/msg1121344/#msg1121344 (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/nerf-this-card!/dimensional-shield/msg1121344/#msg1121344)
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/nerf-this-card!/dimensional-shield/ (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/nerf-this-card!/dimensional-shield/)
Nerfin Dim is a must!!
- Please make nymphs and marks un sell able. I don't know how many people who has sold nymphs/marks and later regret it.
Changes regarding patch 1.4 and the game.
- You should decrease the lv of all npc's that has lv 20 or higher with 10 lv's right away and all between 10 and 20 with 5 lv's. This way things will balanced out much quicker. As it is now I can beat lv 50 decks with a normal un upped bow, vs some opponents.
- Original idea Marsu "Would it be possible to have an area where those random NPC's would be 'hidden' until you start the game? For example, you go there and only see a '???' as NPC name. I am bringing this topic of randomness up because I really think most advanced player would wish for such an option from time to time." I agree with this you could also do it by making a button wich lets you play a random npc, of experience I know these kinds of buttons are highly addictive. Also good when testing new decks.
- Idea originally from colorless green. A leader board for highest rated npc decks would be cool. Not high priority.
Other changes.
I got some contacts on kongregate eventually I'll be able to change the new badges and also add new patch on the front page like this:
(http://i.imgur.com/mI2TXMd.png)
just say so and I'll try to fix these things for you.Changes regarding you.
I just want you to know that 1 simply silly post like. I'm working on a thing right now I won't be able to do much for a year. can mean so extremely much for the community. Humans has an ability to expect the worst scenarios when nothing else is said and many here including myself has or do believe that you don't care about this game at all no more. Even if you got a so called "bad reason" it's still better to say it than not to say it. At least it shows that you care a little. I'd like to add that I still have fate in you and think you made 1 of the best ccg's around!!!
Thank you for reading Blacks
Ideas that needs to be discussed, feel free to make a comment!!!
- Is chroma a good name to the other mark?
- I've been having this idea that perhaps a story set of NPCs should exist. Like a quest where you have to defeat a certain set of NPC in a certain order in a given day to get the whole story. This would be like a later, mid level quest on something like 13 decks in increasing difficulty until you need to fight a FG level creature.Original idea keeps. I liked this idea. I'm sure we could improve it even more!
- Spoiler for nerd1 post. Worth thinking of.Possibly some vanilla cards get abilities, but you only get that ability randomly- for example, cockatrice gets a 1/10 chance to gain "petrification" whenever it's played, and there are "levels" of upgrades to increase the chances of the creature getting that ability, but paid for with something other than electrum.
For example, for every 25 levels an AI has rounded down, you gain a 50% chance to gain a "token" when you defeat it (so a level 25 AI would give you a 50% chance to get a token, a level 50 AI would give you a token automatically, and a level 75 AI would give you a token and a 50% chance to get a token.) Tokens can be spent giving minor upgrades to individual cards with a level system (1, 2, or 3 tokens to raise a level, depending on the card and level) and the higher the level of a card, the higher the chance of that creature getting an additional effect (for example, paying one electrum to raise cockatrice one level adds a 10% chance for it to gain the petrification ability, for a 1/5 chance of gaining petrification when the card is played.)
Additional effects could be stuff that doesn't take a lot of time to program (like simple attack buffs or chances to evade targeting) but it would give people another reason to keep playing, and if additional effects are restricted to un-activatable effects, the time investment for zanzarino (hopefully) wouldn't be as big a deal. - Spoiler for post by keeps. I think it's something that is relevant to discuss.
There have been many debates on the quantity and effects of cards for a while....
Honestly, I would like to see more cards in general, by more as in double or triple the current count.
1.) I personally think each element needs it own personal spin on each core area of the game that many still have missing areas:
1x perm defense (salvanger, protect artifact)
1x perm control (steal, defrag, etc)
1x alternative damage (poison, spell, SoV, etc)
1x counter to alternative damage (purify, reflect, etc)
1x creature quanta gain (pests, flies, ray of light, etc)
1x spell quanta gain (nova)
1x spell damage source (explosive gas, fire bolt, etc)
1x AOE creature control (thunderstorm, pandora, etc)
1x target creature control (chaos seed, reverse time, etc)
1x heal form (heal, divinity, purify, etc)
2x shield types (life, light, death element examples)
1x multi-use spell (purify, acceleration, reverse time)
1x cross cross synergy card for each element combination, be it active ability or obvious synergy (Sundial, GoP + Nightmare, leaf dragon)
Until this is addressed, a big part of random encounters is simply what elements were selected, especially in mono or dual combos. I've posted in past accounts, many examples of mono decks that were simply unable to be beat (except by rng) by any mono deck of a specific element. Until then this game remains completely unbalanced. These core areas need addressed.
The examples above don't have to individual cards, for example, purify meets the heal, multiuse, and the counter to poison.
Each element's card respective cards should stay true to the element. Life, should remain the master of heal, no one should have any question the best element for healing is life. No one should have bigger damaging cards out of the gate than Fire. A good spell for fire, might be fuel, in which sacrificing a creature to a fire might offer some healing effect, similar to cremation. Respect to certain cards by ability should remain, for example, protect artifact is in effect the ultimate protection for perms, however lots of creative and less effective perm control can exist for example, time might do a time seal where the perm card has no effect but can't be targeted or removed from play for 2 turns.
The natural meta game radically shifts, and I know some people in the forums would threaten to quit but many, many more have already quit over this issues. - Quote from mathematistic. InterestingIt would be much better if the reputation is spent as a currency to unlock otherwise inaccessible rewards (random shard/new super-rares, along with the HP upgrades). That way the use of the reputation is more diverse, and the players feel like they have control over the elemental they manifest into in the game, much like a real RPG, where you grow you character to the path you wish to. Small perks like attack bonus/hp bonus (like +1 for the atk or hp for cards of that element if nonzero) much like HD Xyth's campaign mode might work too. If you know about Tyrant, you know the reasons that the raid revamp worked because raid reputation can be spent and grinding got greatly improved. Elements is different from other CCGs, but it's always good to learn from the good things about others.
As for the balancing issue, I would recommend that you make small perks for different stats (10% chance to generate 1 extra quanta/+20HP/+1 atk/hp for nonzero creatres/15% to regain 1 qaunta when playing cards of that element) etc etc. Buffing 1 stat (health) to 150% sounds ridiculous and game-breaking, although the pvp enthusiasts would probably have already thought of pvp1 and 2 banning extra perks and adding pvp3 that allows them, which is also a quick and cost-effective solution. - Allow pvp playing with benefits in the map? Yes, no what do you think?
- Spoiler for odin's post. Can we make more ideas alike. I was mainly thinking about quests.
I just had an awesome idea for how to make use of the 900 hp cap for a cool rare NPC encounter... and a Kong badge to go with it:
NPC name: Overloaded Phase Dragons
Stats:
hp = 900
mark multiplier = 1
draw multiplier = x2You spot two phase dragons off in the distance heading your way. They are known for their wisdom . Perhaps you can reason with them... As the close, you realize something is wrong, chaotic energies crackle along their skin. They speak in a paniced voice: "Run mortal, we can't hold the rift any..." Their appearance suddenly turns feral, the arcing lightening building stronger.The energy is too strong to contain...You must either run or ride out the storm... They're gonna blow!Kong Badge: "Riders on the Storm"
(for those who don't know the song reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riders_on_the_Storm)
To earn the badge, you have to: "Find and take down the 'Overloaded Phase Dragons' before the deck runs out."
Its deck size is 10 cards, which bumps to 20 after the multiplier, so to beat the NPC you only have to survive for about (20-7)/2 = 6 turns... Having tested it out, thats not really too hard as long as you put out some creatures to absorb all the damage spells.
Taking down that many hp before its deck runs out, however, should be a fun challenge (likely requiring some clever deck building). - Idea from keeps. Should things like this be added?Gaining alternative marks with repetition.
Examples
Mark of Shadow -> Your opponent loses 1 :light quanta at the end of their turn all darkness creatures get +0/+1 absorbs :darkness
Mark of Plague -> At the end of a player's turn, All creatures lose 1 health, to a maximum of 50% of their max health rounded up. absorbs :death
Mark of Dawn -> Your opponent loses 1 :darkness quanta at the end of their turn all light creatures get +0/+1 aborbs :light
Mark of Chaos -> One random spell effect occurs to one random target at the end of your turn, if the effect can not target the target choosen nothing happens absorbs :entropy
Mark of Grounding -> The next X creature attacking with flying loses flying where X is the number of Marks of Grounding in play. absorbs :gravity
Mark of Consumption -> each creature gets +1/-1 when attacking. absorbs :fire
Mark of Roots -> Each :life permanent has a 15% chance of coming back into play if destroyed. absorbs :life
Mark of Flight -> The next X creature attacking without flying gains flying where X is the number of Marks of Flightin play. absorbs : :air
Mark of Hardness-> You gain 3 max HP at the end of your turn. absorbs :earth
Mark of Leaking -> Draw 1 additional card if you can during your draw phases, discard a card if you have a card in your hand at the end of your turn. :water
Mark of Stopping -> Both players can hold 1 less card in their hands. absorbs - Tthis one is made by fabian.Mark of Electricity: The next X creature loses random HP from 1 to 5 where X is the number of Marks of Electricity in play. Every 2 Marks of Electricity max random damage increases by 1.Example: Creature #7 got the hit. 3 Marks of Electricity in play: Next creature to get hit is creature #10. If there were only 9 creatures, then the next one is #1. And it continues like that. absorbs :aether
- Quote from jaydos99. I like it.I was thinking that perhaps the NPC's could be hidden in the field. Such that if you want to travel to a certain spot in game, randomly you would be attacked by an NPC with a level in line with the area level. One-off mini boss NPC's could guard the exits of an area with a level in line with the level of the adjacent area. This gives the new player a goal to "break out" of each beginner area and explore, on top of the quests to keep things interesting.
The exact mechanics would have to be worked out, but effectively this would alter the way that a new player can travel the map. Forcing them to buy better cards and create stronger strategies in order to move further around the map. Just an idea but it would lead very nicely into an RPG/storyline based version of Elements.
Final words
If you want to help with things you could:
- Sumbit npc decks.
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/general-discussion/npc's-to-submit-for-1-4-what-are-criteria-for-a-good-submission/msg1089604/#msg1089604 (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/general-discussion/npc's-to-submit-for-1-4-what-are-criteria-for-a-good-submission/msg1089604/#msg1089604)
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/general-discussion/v1-4-npc-player-reviewsreactions/ (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/general-discussion/v1-4-npc-player-reviewsreactions/)
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/general-discussion/1-4-decks-submitted-(and-plans-to-do-so)/
(http://elementscommunity.org/forum/general-discussion/1-4-decks-submitted-(and-plans-to-do-so)/)http://www.elementsthegame.com/bestiary.html (http://www.elementsthegame.com/bestiary.html) - Have a look at this: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/patch-notes-and-development-news/1-4-starting-areas/
- Play decks in trainer and rate them.
- Make a comment to 1 of the things mentioned in Ideas that needs to be discussed
At last thank you for reading.
Blacks
Post by: OdinVanguard on July 02, 2014, 01:16:21 am
I actually really like that idea. I think it would be a good way to work in reputation, have each element provide specialized marks that provide some special ability, on top of or instead of just producing quanta.
Reputation would also be a cool way to introduce new cards. I.e. have cards that can only be obtained after reaching a certain reputation level with the card's element.
I also think that adding some kind of achievements and / or badges in would be cool. It would give the more veteran players something to do late game. This could also provide a good avenue to get interaction from the forum easily. I'm sure forum members would have no problem coming up with endless numbers of interesting challenge scenarios (i.e. beat monsters in zone X without using cards A,B,C... or clear zone Y without losing a single match).
Along that line, it would be cool if players could see eachother in game and check out each others achievements, cardsets, etc.
In any event, I can't wait to see v1.4 finally go live. Even without anything other than just what it has right now it would be totally awesome.
Post by: haidao0923 on July 13, 2014, 03:17:28 pm
I already submit it
Post by: Higurashi on July 13, 2014, 03:22:37 pm
Post by: haidao0923 on July 13, 2014, 03:55:58 pm
When will the beta be release to be exact
Post by: TobiMcNamobi on August 10, 2014, 06:54:22 am
The World in progress look so cool, when will it be release?
When will the beta be release to be exact
Yea, when?
Post by: Espithel on August 10, 2014, 01:49:24 pm
The World in progress look so cool, when will it be release?
When will the beta be release to be exact
Yea, when?
It'll be released when it's released.
Zanz is
Post by: TribalTrouble on August 10, 2014, 02:00:35 pm
Himself* ::)The World in progress look so cool, when will it be release?
When will the beta be release to be exact
Yea, when?
It'll be released when it's released.
Zanz isreally, really lazyquite busy, and he has to update this entire game all by itself.
But yeah just be patient. One day he might finish this huge update he has planned.
Post by: StreptoFire on August 19, 2014, 08:04:36 pm
Post by: Drake_XIV on August 19, 2014, 08:09:34 pm
Post by: StreptoFire on August 20, 2014, 06:43:25 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/PdlPaSM.png)
Found this while wandering through the world.
The "accelerations" near Akebono are his minions. They have 150HP, 3x mark and 1x card draw, and are level 60.
And beating Akebono gave me 444 gold (I don't remember but I think it was an EM), adding the gold from the spins (when the two first cards are equal) it gave me almost 700 gold. Wow.
And btw the "elite elemental" bug must be fixed, as it crashes the game. For me it happened when I finished the "clear one area" quest.
Post by: Espithel on August 20, 2014, 07:39:00 pm
Going to the left is safer.
Post by: eljoemo on August 20, 2014, 08:25:06 pm
Since when did zanz add FGs and their lairs?
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/patch-notes-and-development-news/1-4-false-gods/
There's a whole thing about it. There's only Akebono at the moment but that should change once things get moving. That thread has everything you need to know.
Post by: estava on August 21, 2014, 05:49:06 am
The quest information was slightly hard to read. The small fonts, long lines and bad contrast/aliasing was quite annoying.
I also did not like the 2.5D map that much. My idea perhaps would be to make it just 2D and save the trouble.
Thanks!
Post by: Avenger on August 21, 2014, 09:24:55 am
Hi folks. I am excited about the new version, but I tried it for a bit today for the first time, and I didn't like a couple things about it.But you can switch the view if you don't like it.
The quest information was slightly hard to read. The small fonts, long lines and bad contrast/aliasing was quite annoying.
I also did not like the 2.5D map that much. My idea perhaps would be to make it just 2D and save the trouble.
Thanks!
Post by: estava on August 21, 2014, 09:39:01 pm
But you can switch the view if you don't like it.
Thanks. I just tried to switch it, but I couldn't quite get it either. I would rather it was 2D and more straightforward. Sort of like Google Maps. Maybe with zoom in/out features. It's difficult to make one concept work well enough. With two concepts, both 2D and 2.5D, it's more difficult.
Post by: StreptoFire on August 25, 2014, 01:20:22 am
This game has so much potential to have a great story/background.
Post by: jahaswel on September 19, 2014, 01:58:06 am
I tried the new version and it's great! When can we expect more development?
Having those cheat buttons right out in the open ruined it for me tho. I wasn't sure what all the buttons were and just ended up pressing them, and truthfully, the desire to play left as soon as I knew I just had to press a button.
Thanks for the great game
James
Post by: ddevans96 on September 19, 2014, 03:59:02 am
As for more development, we have no clue. The developer has been seen only occasionally in the last couple years.
Post by: CuCN on September 19, 2014, 04:02:36 am
They aren't, have never been, and will never be in the real game.Except for when they were accidentally released with 1.32.
Post by: Tempestfury on October 03, 2014, 12:21:20 am
Post by: TobiMcNamobi on October 05, 2014, 11:27:04 am
IMO this world update would be great to expand the game lore.Yeah, all those games with all those wasted potential ... isn't it sad?
This game has so much potential to have a great story/background.
Instead of asking "Wouldn't it be great if ...?" I'm rather asking: When?
Post by: hickit on November 10, 2014, 05:50:35 pm
Post by: Drake_XIV on November 10, 2014, 06:53:45 pm
Post by: seulintse on November 12, 2014, 12:45:21 pm
Post by: Narabo on December 02, 2014, 01:31:13 pm
I like the game quite a lot, but the announcement of such a change actually destroyed the game for me. When you think that that's all the game can offer you are content with what you have. When you desperate wait for something new (announced) and get nothing suddenly things turns to worth nothing.
As rules in life "Don't change what's already working" and "Don't start something that you can not finish".
At this point the game is in a state of desolation.
I enter the site maybe once per month to see if news finally caught up with me, once more, dissapointed.
Post by: Higurashi on December 02, 2014, 02:03:38 pm
Post by: ginandtonic on December 05, 2014, 06:55:04 pm
I would venture to say that many, many people have tried this game and gave it up for many (very understandable) reasons such as:
PVP1 is broken (again)
PVP2 is desolate and when people do play it is usually with one of five or so OP decks (I'm looking at you, Shard Golems, Shard of Sacrifice, Sundial OTKs)
Grindgrindgrindgrindgrindy
The ridiculous price to get a single upgraded card, then doing that 29 more times to get a single upgraded deck only to see the metagame change again rendering those 45k electrum spent near-useless
Now lest you think I'm just whining, I've got all the cards, more upgraded cards than I care to count and a score of near half a million. I'm not the highest or the best, but I feel like I can make an informed opinion and that is...
This game has so much potential but it moves like a glacier, it takes years to move one step forward. Everyone gets excited for a while, then it slowly starts to slide back and back and back. Of course this is because it is a portfolio/pet project. But it really could be so much more as a game. Do I enjoy it? You bet! I wouldn't have the PVP2 window open for hours waiting for a challenger. Am I happy with the way the game is executed and implemented? No, I am disappointed. Zanz needs to step it up and bring more people on-board. Or we just need to admit it is a shell of the game it could be.
(Edit: my first PVP2 game of the day just showed up after hours of waiting and the poor challenger got a desynch loss, unfortunately that is not surprising)
Post by: UTAlan on December 05, 2014, 07:06:59 pm
Zanz needs to step it up and bring more people on-board. Or we just need to admit it is a shell of the game it could be.
That's totally up to him. He's the creator and lead developer, so he doesn't need to step up anything. Yes, the potential of the game far outweighs what it appears it will ever achieve, I will easily admit to that.
But that doesn't mean I can't enjoy it for exactly what it is in the mean time. :)
Post by: ginandtonic on December 05, 2014, 07:20:31 pm
But you all know this, if you have read any amount of the forums. I am preaching away from the choir.
I am in no way trying to take away enjoyment from people. Like I said, I have played for years.
Post by: Gunthar on January 21, 2015, 11:52:37 am
First I can not see the reputation level of any element. Including how much reputation being required to get the next reputation level with the element.
Second currently spinning and getting 2 of the same card gives only a small bonus win if left and middle wheel shows the same card. Now I suggest that this should be also if left and right wheel or middle and right wheel shows the same card.
One game breaking bug found. After cleaning an area at the oracle palace (chromate mark) an elite element appeared. At that time the game freeze. (Script freeze)
Post by: Regulus on January 29, 2015, 07:44:29 am
This game has so much potential but it moves like a glacier, it takes years to move one step forward. Everyone gets excited for a while, then it slowly starts to slide back and back and back. Of course this is because it is a portfolio/pet project. But it really could be so much more as a game. Do I enjoy it? You bet! I wouldn't have the PVP2 window open for hours waiting for a challenger. Am I happy with the way the game is executed and implemented? No, I am disappointed. Zanz needs to step it up and bring more people on-board. Or we just need to admit it is a shell of the game it could be.
It's like you plucked the words straight from my mind.
Post by: iDaire on January 29, 2015, 02:09:33 pm
Though it is just a portfolio project and Zanzarino had never predicted the game would become this big, this game has the potential to become so much more than it already is. It is very tiring to log in day after day to find that people are still using the same exact decks in PvP 1 and PvP 2. It's tiring to see the meta of this game never changes because the developer is inactive and can't implement a new set of cards or a new set of system to expand the amount of decks that are used. The game has room for a lot of variety and quite honestly, right now it has only scratched the bare surface of what it could be.
I bet if an update were to be added, just a small set of cards or a small change to how things work, thousands upon thousands of players would run over here and start playing again or just start playing, because something different was added or because of their renewed hope in Zanzarino. They'd know he is still working on the game, that he hasn't abandoned it.
I guess what I'm trying to get out here is that, we just need a sign Zanzarino is still here. A small post or something would help. The game itself is great, but not as great as it could be. I'm pretty much just recycling what previous people have said already.
Post by: Phaser on February 01, 2015, 05:00:25 am
Post by: ssingeitus on February 05, 2015, 02:52:20 am
This game has so much potential but it moves like a glacier, it takes years to move one step forward. Everyone gets excited for a while, then it slowly starts to slide back and back and back. Of course this is because it is a portfolio/pet project. But it really could be so much more as a game. Do I enjoy it? You bet! I wouldn't have the PVP2 window open for hours waiting for a challenger. Am I happy with the way the game is executed and implemented? No, I am disappointed. Zanz needs to step it up and bring more people on-board. Or we just need to admit it is a shell of the game it could be.
It's like you plucked the words straight from my mind.
I third this. I was so excited when I heard of 1.4 and played the trainer religiously. I come back a year later to find no updates except a 'pvp fix' but pvp is still broken... I think its fair to say that if Zanz doesn't want to develop this game anymore, there are plenty of people who are willing and able to do it. I get he doesn't want to give over his game to someone else but he doesn't have to. He can still steer the game in a direction that he wants but wouldn't have to do any of the heavy lifting. As many have stated this game has great potential but potential that is not acted on may as well not be there. I love this game I really do but at this stage, its not even a good thing. Its sad to see something like this die out which is exactly what is happening and if something drastic isn't done about this there is only going to be a handful of the same people playing this game.
Post by: maxy123 on February 28, 2015, 02:26:55 am
Post by: d1puffpuff on March 11, 2015, 10:30:55 am
I hope he knows that plenty of people would love to take over this game.agreed
Post by: foxrain4 on April 23, 2015, 01:03:51 pm
Dang.. come back zanz!well, i hope you all know you can actually make your own card game =.="I hope he knows that plenty of people would love to take over this game.agreed
Post by: Keeps on April 27, 2015, 01:55:05 am
Post by: teffy on April 28, 2015, 11:16:15 am
Post by: Barragor on May 05, 2015, 11:04:35 am
Maybe we can use the 'FG proposal' section to make new AIs instead of new FGs.
Post by: Barragor on May 05, 2015, 12:10:41 pm
Also, when you set 5 HP the level is already 8 and when you set 10 HP the level is 16. That seems a bit high...
Post by: eaglgenes101 on May 06, 2015, 02:13:03 am
I found something in the NPC creator. If you test your deck, the Mark multiplier doesn't always work.I already found that out...
Also, when you set 5 HP the level is already 8 and when you set 10 HP the level is 16. That seems a bit high...
Post by: Rutarete on May 06, 2015, 02:18:46 am
But who wants to read through 50+ pages?I found something in the NPC creator. If you test your deck, the Mark multiplier doesn't always work.I already found that out...
Also, when you set 5 HP the level is already 8 and when you set 10 HP the level is 16. That seems a bit high...
Post by: dworthy on May 29, 2015, 07:22:56 am
But who wants to read through 50+ pages?I found something in the NPC creator. If you test your deck, the Mark multiplier doesn't always work.I already found that out...
Also, when you set 5 HP the level is already 8 and when you set 10 HP the level is 16. That seems a bit high...
True. We need to see if we can open a new thread for all the comments about the trainer and Elements 1.4
Post by: Narabo on June 08, 2015, 09:41:48 am
There is nothing to blame since it is a pet project.
There is a big blame when you post plans for the future and stop everything and leave it at a state of ruin. There are two respectful ways to deal with a situation. Either finish the work, either announce you can't and cancel it. The gamers should be respected, at the moment the game is surviving by hope, false hope.
Post by: Rutarete on June 09, 2015, 07:37:55 am
Either finish the work, or announce you can'tI do wish one of these would happen. I've seen a similar situation with a friend of mine where he dropped all his projects without word and zero contact for months. At least now he's back on track. Just waiting for Zanz to do the same..
Post by: foxrain4 on June 11, 2015, 02:00:36 pm
why not work in progress?Either finish the work, or announce you can'tI do wish one of these would happen. I've seen a similar situation with a friend of mine where he dropped all his projects without word and zero contact for months. At least now he's back on track. Just waiting for Zanz to do the same..
rome wasn't built in a day.
http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/148823/rome-was-not-built-in-a-day
Post by: Espithel on June 12, 2015, 07:27:44 am
why not work in progress?Either finish the work, or announce you can'tI do wish one of these would happen. I've seen a similar situation with a friend of mine where he dropped all his projects without word and zero contact for months. At least now he's back on track. Just waiting for Zanz to do the same..
rome wasn't built in a day.
http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/148823/rome-was-not-built-in-a-day
Not knowing what's going on is worse than it not happening at all.
We don't know if it's a work in progress.
Rome wasn't built in a day, but you could tell it was being built.
Post by: Falconian on July 22, 2015, 01:57:27 am
Pretty sure you'd get tons of money thrown at it.
Post by: Treldon on July 22, 2015, 02:03:36 am
With money alone all we could do is create a new game, which isn't our goal.
Plus Kickstarter isn't for creating Flash games, nor would too many people fund it like that.
Post by: Falconian on July 28, 2015, 08:42:14 pm
Money isn't the issue here, it's the absence of the developer.
With money alone all we could do is create a new game, which isn't our goal.
Why absence? Maybe he's just taken playing a stall too seriously. :D
Seriously tho if he abandoned the game he could sell the copyright and let others develop Elements.
Otherwise again he could get funds to develop it himself. Plenty of options.
Plus Kickstarter isn't for creating Flash games, nor would too many people fund it like that.
The vast majority of KS games are flash games or similar stuff.
Many major Flash CCGs were Kickstarted, i.e. War of Omens was Kickstarted not too long ago and it's doing very well.
If anything it's a great time to kickstart stuff, these days you can get anything KS'd even video series about sexism in Super Mario.
It'd be a pity to see a game with a metric ton of potential abandoned.
Post by: Naesala on July 28, 2015, 09:54:40 pm
Zanz has refused attempts to buy the game multiple times, even after long hiatuses. He also has not interest in making this game his job (he has a very nice paying job as is.) Zanz just has no interest in the game anymore and is content to leave it as a portfolio piece of his in it's current state.
Post by: VegeForsaken on August 03, 2015, 05:34:59 pm
Quote
Zanz has refused attempts to buy the game multiple times, even after long hiatuses. He also has not interest in making this game his job (he has a very nice paying job as is.) Zanz just has no interest in the game anymore and is content to leave it as a portfolio piece of his in it's current state.
Is this a statement? I mean, its "Official" that Elements wont be updated nor by Zanz nor anyone else, and will stay like it is forever?
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on August 03, 2015, 05:42:02 pm
Zanz has refused to sell the game to both Zynga and independent buyers, so yes, this is a true statement. We know he is currently alive, still in his well paying job and capable of contacting us, but he has only recently basically said "hi" to an EtG forum administrator on Google+ and nothing else. Otherwise, he has been AWOL for 2 years and has not updated in that time nor stated he will update the game in any shape or form.QuoteZanz has refused attempts to buy the game multiple times, even after long hiatuses. He also has not interest in making this game his job (he has a very nice paying job as is.) Zanz just has no interest in the game anymore and is content to leave it as a portfolio piece of his in it's current state.
Is this a statement? I mean, its "Official" that Elements wont be updated nor by Zanz nor anyone else, and will stay like it is forever?
Post by: moomoose on August 15, 2015, 09:42:53 pm
Post by: Smaug on August 16, 2015, 03:09:28 am
Post by: godofdeath500 on August 22, 2015, 05:13:39 pm
Lets hope Zanz changes his mind and comes back to us.
Post by: FunkyFox on August 29, 2015, 07:47:52 pm
Post by: Naesala on August 29, 2015, 08:46:29 pm
Post by: FunkyFox on August 29, 2015, 11:37:39 pm
See OEtG and Cyngia. We're already doing it. There is/has been controversyi just checked it out.
it's terrible. why not simply make it like actual elements, but with added content?
Post by: AD TienzuStorm on August 29, 2015, 11:45:07 pm
See OEtG and Cyngia. We're already doing it. There is/has been controversyi just checked it out.
it's terrible. why not simply make it like actual elements, but with added content?
Did you really check out oEtG? Because what you described is literally what oEtG is. Cygnus is currently going to get new cards this weekend IIRC, it's a project in the CIA, although I'm sure you know that if you found the thread that contained the Cygnia link.
Post by: FunkyFox on August 29, 2015, 11:56:37 pm
i didnt read all that. i just googled "OEtG elements the game" and clicked the first thing i saw that made sense. and if it's still in production, i can understand the current qualitySee OEtG and Cyngia. We're already doing it. There is/has been controversyi just checked it out.
it's terrible. why not simply make it like actual elements, but with added content?
Did you really check out oEtG? Because what you described is literally what oEtG is. Cygnus is currently going to get new cards this weekend IIRC, it's a project in the CIA, although I'm sure you know that if you found the thread that contained the Cygnia link.
Post by: AD TienzuStorm on August 30, 2015, 12:11:50 am
i didnt read all that. i just googled "OEtG elements the game" and clicked the first thing i saw that made sense. and if it's still in production, i can understand the current qualitySee OEtG and Cyngia. We're already doing it. There is/has been controversyi just checked it out.
it's terrible. why not simply make it like actual elements, but with added content?
Did you really check out oEtG? Because what you described is literally what oEtG is. Cygnus is currently going to get new cards this weekend IIRC, it's a project in the CIA, although I'm sure you know that if you found the thread that contained the Cygnia link.
What's so bad about its quality? It plays exactly the same as EtG does, and it has much more options (although admittedly the loss of the whole Arena is kinda sad, but considering that you have all the cards, it wouldn't make sense to keep gaining cards).
If you're talking about looks, well you can't expect it to look exactly like EtG. Only art that wasn't copyrighted (like made by Zanz and friends and we couldn't get their approval for art usage) was used, so that's why most of it isn't amazingly wonderful in terms of art. But art shouldn't matter, they don't affect the game.
Post by: FunkyFox on August 30, 2015, 12:51:47 am
i thought the art shouldnt be an issue as long as no one is making money off of using it. but then, i could be wrongi didnt read all that. i just googled "OEtG elements the game" and clicked the first thing i saw that made sense. and if it's still in production, i can understand the current qualitySee OEtG and Cyngia. We're already doing it. There is/has been controversyi just checked it out.
it's terrible. why not simply make it like actual elements, but with added content?
Did you really check out oEtG? Because what you described is literally what oEtG is. Cygnus is currently going to get new cards this weekend IIRC, it's a project in the CIA, although I'm sure you know that if you found the thread that contained the Cygnia link.
What's so bad about its quality? It plays exactly the same as EtG does, and it has much more options (although admittedly the loss of the whole Arena is kinda sad, but considering that you have all the cards, it wouldn't make sense to keep gaining cards).
If you're talking about looks, well you can't expect it to look exactly like EtG. Only art that wasn't copyrighted (like made by Zanz and friends and we couldn't get their approval for art usage) was used, so that's why most of it isn't amazingly wonderful in terms of art. But art shouldn't matter, they don't affect the game.
Post by: serprex on August 30, 2015, 03:54:05 pm
Post by: FunkyFox on August 30, 2015, 04:40:16 pm
pfffft. who cares about such an ancient concept?
Post by: Ginyu on August 30, 2015, 04:51:50 pm
Especially because oetg started as an almost exact copy of all mechanics and cards.
Post by: godofdeath500 on August 30, 2015, 06:16:52 pm
People who appreciate what zanz did for us when creating this game.
Especially because oetg started as an almost exact copy of all mechanics and cards.
OEtG leaves a lot to be desired in the smoothness of gameplay, but its still amazing. Reminded me of the old CCG's (I can't remember the name of it for the life of me). And I agree, Zanz did a LOT for us, creating this game and giving us a good two years of updates.
Post by: iancudorinmarian on August 30, 2015, 07:42:15 pm
moral correctness?That way of thinking is so wrong...
pfffft. who cares about such an ancient concept?
Post by: antiaverage on August 31, 2015, 04:51:32 am
i didnt read all that. i just googled "OEtG elements the game" and clicked the first thing i saw that made sense. and if it's still in production, i can understand the current quality
OpenEtG: http://etg.dek.im
Cygnia: http://etg.dek.im/cia
And yes, still very much a work in progress, but all the mechanics are there
Post by: Spielkind on August 31, 2015, 07:13:58 am
Post by: Treldon on August 31, 2015, 08:43:02 am
Why should zanz come back when people think they can do it theirself?
It's the other way around. The need for creating alternate versions arose from Zanz not being around to advance the game.
Post by: dragtom on August 31, 2015, 08:49:17 am
Zanz' latest post was on december 16, 2013.
Zanz' latest post before the thread of OpenEtG has been made, was on august 26, 2013.
Post by: antiaverage on August 31, 2015, 08:55:17 am
Why should zanz come back when people think they can do it theirself?
I think the creators of OEtG made it very clear that they would at any point abandon OEtG if Zanzarino asked them to do so, and that they very much want him to return to developing the official version.
Post by: Shinki12345 on September 15, 2015, 02:43:58 am
Post by: FunkyFox on September 20, 2015, 02:47:53 am
my point is, we should put it to a vote >:3
Post by: antiaverage on September 20, 2015, 02:49:37 am
Post by: godofdeath500 on September 20, 2015, 02:51:52 am
I vote that we eat FunkyFox. Am I doing this right?
*gets knife and fork ready
Post by: FunkyFox on September 20, 2015, 02:55:02 am
Post by: godofdeath500 on September 20, 2015, 03:10:01 am
Guess its vegetables tonight.
Post by: eaglgenes101 on September 20, 2015, 03:51:33 am
Anyone that wanted meat, no problem! We don't have to eat a cohort to enjoy!
Post by: godofdeath500 on September 20, 2015, 05:11:55 pm
*Quickly prepares bacon in the microwave*
Anyone that wanted meat, no problem! We don't have to eat a cohort to enjoy!
*takes some bacon
Post by: OdinVanguard on October 22, 2015, 03:45:52 pm
Gotta bake or fry that delicious pig meat until it reaches a nice crispy yumminess.
*warms up frying pan*
so wish there would be some kind of update on this. I've been anticipating it for over a year now.
Can't wait to mercilessly grind the poor happless player made AI's roming the land!
... At least we have Cygnia now though. I'll have to sate my bloodlust with designing and play testing card ideas to beat up false god replicas instead.
Post by: MaxG- on December 26, 2015, 04:57:44 am
Post by: AD TienzuStorm on December 26, 2015, 05:05:57 am
I reaaally hope this isn't necroposting. I mean, this is my third post in the whole forums and I am only wondering what happened with all this 1.4. And what are/were OEtG and CIA? Makes me wonder if I'm playing the right game (?). What's going to happen to the game's development?
The Lead Dev, Zanzarino, has basically gone inactive and there hasn't been any development in two years (IIRC). Elements 1.4 was planned but never put into action. However, it would look like how the Trainer looks like.
The CIA (which stands for Card Ideas & Art) is a place where members can post their own cards. They're critiqued and go up throughout the system until they reach the Armory (the last level), where they'll be implemented into a CIA project known as Cygnia. Cygnia is a carbon copy of EtG except with those cards in the Armory added in. Nothing else is changed (aside from small visuals and the addition of a Chroma mark).
oEtG is like the fanmade version of EtG. It has its own meta, and it also takes cards from the CIA and implements them. However, the key difference is that oEtG is like a remade EtG; it's like its own separate game. You could play that by itself and have no trouble understanding due to not knowing about EtG. Cygnia, on the other hand, is sorta made like the Trainer, and is more like a playtesting function. It's essentially EtG but with added cards, not nearly as separated from EtG as oEtG is.
Hope that helped! (also, if I missed something/was wrong, please let me know ^^)
Post by: MaxG- on December 26, 2015, 05:10:56 am
Post by: AD TienzuStorm on December 26, 2015, 05:15:55 am
You can start with any of the three, although yes, I would say that learning the basics of EtG would be a good way to start.
And there isn't really any risk AFAIK. Zanz does seem to still support the game (and he even came back, albeit for a moment, to fix the game when a database crash occurred earlier this year), so I think EtG will be here to stay.
Post by: DaveA on March 25, 2016, 12:18:38 pm
While I still enjoy the shit out of it after a break sind 2012 I worry about the future of this game. No development/updates ultimately leads to the death of a game.
Post by: Kamietsu on March 25, 2016, 09:45:13 pm
Is this still a thing? Aka is 1.4 or any EtG update still under development?Basically yeah, it's sort of dead development wise. But the community is still going as strong as ever.
While I still enjoy the shit out of it after a break sind 2012 I worry about the future of this game. No development/updates ultimately leads to the death of a game.
Post by: MasterofPun on April 08, 2016, 12:18:35 am
Post by: Manuel on April 08, 2016, 12:25:39 am
We must indeed get a developer on this! This is too great an idea and a card game to go to waste. WE can't just let an active community stifle without active development.
only zanz has access to etg.
"cygnia" and "open elements the game" are "clones" made by the community with the addiction of some new cards and some buffs, but etg is still the main game with the most number of active players
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/cygnia/elements-cygnia-elements-the-game-with-your-card-ideas!/
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/general-discussion/openetg/
Post by: Kamietsu on April 08, 2016, 06:06:53 am
We must indeed get a developer on this! This is too great an idea and a card game to go to waste. WE can't just let an active community stifle without active development.
Unfortunately there is nothing we can do about it. Zanz is still hosting the game and comes by to fix any major issues but unless he ever decides to give up the game to someone else it'll forever stay in its current state.
Post by: godisnowonline on April 08, 2016, 06:15:43 am
We must indeed get a developer on this! This is too great an idea and a card game to go to waste. WE can't just let an active community stifle without active development.
This is zanzerino's creation, he gave birth to it and has given us so much in it. I don't know if you where here when the game crashed and the servers where broken and everyone was rolled back months. I am grateful that he came back to fix it for us. Without him we would not have the game to begin with and without him many people would have left the forums and the game because of the crash. We all want 1.4 to become a thing but zanz has a life that he has to live. saying that the community will stifle without new content is true in a lot of aspects but we are all trying to keep the forums alive. we all give a bit of selves to the forum and we all take things away from it. That is enough for me.
Post by: js-number on May 06, 2016, 04:42:04 am
Bummer :'(
There's no shortage of online CCG's out there, but all of them are run by exceedingly greedy people; I really thought I had struck gold with this community and game...
Post by: godisnowonline on May 06, 2016, 04:50:38 am
Hmm, so I stumbled upon this hidden gem of a game a few days ago and I've reading some of the tips and guides for newbs; I decided to check out the rest of forums to see if any updates were on their way just to discover development is in a coma and, while the core community remains very loyal, a good chunk of the player base has already migrated and there are even 1 or 2 clone-games floating around.
Bummer :'(
There's no shortage of online CCG's out there, but all of them are run by exceedingly greedy people; I really thought I had struck gold with this community and game...
Stick around for a while, pop your head into the chat room, you'll see that the game is still very much breathing.
Post by: inthisroom on May 26, 2016, 10:37:12 pm
More cards will come, have faith.
We worship a cruel God.
Post by: rob77dp on May 26, 2016, 10:38:44 pm
More cards will come, have faith.
We worship a cruel God.
Seemingly with no sense of time - at least not that aligns with our elemental experience of it. :D
Post by: worldwideweb3 on May 26, 2016, 10:39:23 pm
This should work. Amirite zanz?
Post by: Vangelios on May 26, 2016, 10:40:53 pm
you are blasphemous, your faith is weak, :fire in you to your purification your soulMore cards will come, have faith.
We worship a cruel God.
Post by: aaronk474 on July 28, 2016, 09:24:55 pm
Post by: SnoWeb on October 31, 2016, 04:05:22 pm
More cards will come, have faith.Each time I come back here and see no new card, I'm sad for this community ... and for the game which used to be a really good one.
Post by: The Spartan on November 01, 2016, 07:12:14 pm
More cards will come, have faith.Each time I come back here and see no new card, I'm sad for this community ... and for the game which used to be a really good one.
Having updates doesn't make the game good, and not having them doesn't make it not good. The fact that the game has lasted this long says a lot, and makes it a classic, even if not perfect.
Post by: omegareaper7 on November 02, 2016, 06:07:17 pm
I actually agree with this.More cards will come, have faith.Each time I come back here and see no new card, I'm sad for this community ... and for the game which used to be a really good one.
Having updates doesn't make the game good, and not having them doesn't make it not good. The fact that the game has lasted this long says a lot, and makes it a classic, even if not perfect.
While updates are very nice, there are lots of games that haven't been updated in a long time that are still played rather often.
However, updates are a nice way to bring the population up.
Post by: danil on November 03, 2016, 01:00:07 am
-snip-
I actually agree with this.
While updates are very nice, there are lots of games that haven't been updated in a long time that are still played rather often.
However, updates are a nice way to bring the population up.
I agree as well. Take a look at Super Smash Bros Melee; it has one of the most thriving gaming communities, but has never received a single (major) balance update.
Post by: antiaverage on November 17, 2016, 10:58:09 am
Oh my. Thanks again AD TienzuStorm. What would I do without you. I see now. And what is that people play... the most? Is it recommended that I grind and learn in the traditional EtG or that I get used to these other things? Is there any risk for the regular EtG because Zanzarino has gone inactive?
People on the forums play the normal EtG the most.
After playing EtG for a while, you may be interested in checking out the other projects.
There is no risk for the regular EtG, it's just unknown if and when it will be updated. In its current state it's still very playable and enjoyable. We still host competitions for it, etc.
Post by: Sqantic Pilau on November 24, 2016, 05:14:11 am
-snip-
I actually agree with this.
While updates are very nice, there are lots of games that haven't been updated in a long time that are still played rather often.
However, updates are a nice way to bring the population up.
I agree as well. Take a look at Super Smash Bros Melee; it has one of the most thriving gaming communities, but has never received a single (major) balance update.
Errr . . . Chess ?
Post by: flyingcat on November 24, 2016, 07:31:05 pm
I mean, it doesn't have the tech-gimmick of the Knight, but it's still OP AF. I demand a nerf, all of the noobs use Queen and there's literally no hard counter, it's like they intend for me to have to outplay the opponent to capture it.
And what is with those Pawns? I have 8 potential Queens? That is seriously OP value that needs to be nerfed. I propose making Pawns auto-die on Rank 7 for White or Rank 2 for Black.
Finally, can we buff the King yet? I mean, it's the "most important" piece in the game, but it's so lame. It's like the devs took Queen, and hit a homerun with the nerf bat. If we let it teleport, I think the meta would be a lot more balanced and interesting.
Post by: Fippe94 on November 24, 2016, 08:40:37 pm
Post by: Higurashi on November 24, 2016, 08:48:14 pm
Post by: CactusKing on January 07, 2017, 01:40:11 am
Post by: Naii_the_Baf on January 07, 2017, 05:06:40 am
I wonder if zanz is only pretending to have abandoned the game and has in fact spent the last 3 years secretly working on an update bigger than any of us could have imagined? If not will someone else eventually take over development?
I doubt either of those are remotely possible. Sure, Zanzarino might go and fix something in the game for us, but that's about it.
Post by: OdinVanguard on March 20, 2017, 06:39:14 pm
i just wish it would eventually get finalized... So much awesome... stuck in perpetual stasis... :(
Post by: TribalTrouble on May 07, 2017, 11:40:20 pm
Post by: trashduke on July 28, 2017, 05:17:54 am
At least there are a couple more years left.
Elements RIP?
Post by: UTAlan on July 28, 2017, 04:47:00 pm
Post by: CleanOnion on July 28, 2017, 04:51:53 pm
Removing support doesn't mean it will stop working. Adobe will stop updating and distributing Flash, but the game will continue to work as is.I guess it depends on when browsers by default stop supporting it.
Post by: Espithel on July 29, 2017, 02:52:26 pm
Welp, guess it's time to be a thieving bastard and create another version of the game somewhere
Maybe the game'll actually have good servers then :^)
Post by: CactusKing on July 30, 2017, 12:38:52 am
Who wants to install virus city just to playI would install viruses on my computer if it means elements still worksrock-paper-scissorsan ancient card game?
Post by: Waterloo7 on October 17, 2017, 09:36:27 pm
I don't use the forum a lot, so, does someone know what happened to Zanzarino?I wonder if zanz is only pretending to have abandoned the game and has in fact spent the last 3 years secretly working on an update bigger than any of us could have imagined? If not will someone else eventually take over development?
I doubt either of those are remotely possible. Sure, Zanzarino might go and fix something in the game for us, but that's about it.
Post by: ddevans96 on October 17, 2017, 09:41:35 pm
I don't use the forum a lot, so, does someone know what happened to Zanzarino?
He maintains a channel of communication with admins, and in conversations with them has said he teaches chemical engineering at a university. Apart from that and fixing major issues with the game's servers, he's had no contact with us.
Post by: Caffre on November 18, 2017, 02:19:30 am
Removing support doesn't mean it will stop working. Adobe will stop updating and distributing Flash, but the game will continue to work as is.I guess it depends on when browsers by default stop supporting it.
It doesn't look good.
2019:
- Internet Explorer removes support for Flash
- Firefox removes removes support for Flash by default, except for users with Firefox Extended Support Release
2020:
- Adobe stops distributing Flash
- Chrome removes support for Flash
- Firefox removes support for Flash
We're on the cusp of 2018, which means there's only really a year and a bit to either
a) reimplement the game in HTML5 or some other standard, or
b) start grieving its end-of-life and look back fondly on the good times
Post by: Phaser on November 19, 2017, 06:07:59 am
Removing support doesn't mean it will stop working. Adobe will stop updating and distributing Flash, but the game will continue to work as is.I guess it depends on when browsers by default stop supporting it.
It doesn't look good.
2019:
- Internet Explorer removes support for Flash
- Firefox removes removes support for Flash by default, except for users with Firefox Extended Support Release
2020:
- Adobe stops distributing Flash
- Chrome removes support for Flash
- Firefox removes support for Flash
We're on the cusp of 2018, which means there's only really a year and a bit to either
a) reimplement the game in HTML5 or some other standard, or
b) start grieving its end-of-life and look back fondly on the good times
Post by: Higurashi on November 19, 2017, 08:52:50 am
[Redacted]You can, but we can't be talking about that because it means not supporting the dev through ads anymore.
Post by: Monox D. I-Fly on November 19, 2017, 11:35:00 am
Post by: CactusKing on November 20, 2017, 08:32:50 am
What did he actually say?If you were meant to know that it wouldn't have been redacted.
Post by: Gunthar on January 29, 2018, 09:31:55 pm
Post by: Trois on January 29, 2019, 09:44:38 pm
Post by: InsignificantWeeaboo on January 29, 2019, 10:35:34 pm
Wait its 2019 and Zanz still isnt back?We gave up on waiting for him.
Post by: Monox D. I-Fly on March 11, 2019, 07:23:39 am
Post by: InsignificantWeeaboo on March 11, 2019, 05:42:23 pm
So, will Elements: the Game survive 2019?Should be able to. Flash doesn't get shut down until 2020.
Post by: Wyand on March 11, 2019, 10:43:21 pm
Post by: dragonsdemesne on March 11, 2019, 11:12:41 pm
Post by: Fippe94 on March 12, 2019, 06:07:11 am
Post by: laxnut90 on March 23, 2019, 03:47:28 am
Post by: InsignificantWeeaboo on March 23, 2019, 06:24:27 am
Is there any hope of the game being updated again? It's such a fun game, it would be a shame if it doesn't continue in some way.
haha nope
Though you might want to check out openETG (http://etg.dek.im)
Post by: Monox D. I-Fly on April 03, 2019, 11:19:21 am
Is there any hope of the game being updated again? It's such a fun game, it would be a shame if it doesn't continue in some way.
haha nope
Though you might want to check out openETG (http://etg.dek.im)
Is it also in Flash? If so, I should play it soon before Flash becomes obsolete.
Post by: serprex on April 03, 2019, 11:26:51 am
Is there any hope of the game being updated again? It's such a fun game, it would be a shame if it doesn't continue in some way.
haha nope
Though you might want to check out openETG (http://etg.dek.im)
Is it also in Flash? If so, I should play it soon before Flash becomes obsolete.
Nope. Originally implemented using PixiJS (http://www.pixijs.com), has since switched to React (https://reactjs.org)
Post by: Monox D. I-Fly on April 03, 2019, 12:00:24 pm
Is there any hope of the game being updated again? It's such a fun game, it would be a shame if it doesn't continue in some way.
haha nope
Though you might want to check out openETG (http://etg.dek.im)
Is it also in Flash? If so, I should play it soon before Flash becomes obsolete.
Nope. Originally implemented using PixiJS (http://www.pixijs.com), has since switched to React (https://reactjs.org)
Oops. Already registered.
Post by: snapecot on May 16, 2019, 07:13:59 pm
Is there any hope of the game being updated again? It's such a fun game, it would be a shame if it doesn't continue in some way.
haha nope
Though you might want to check out openETG (http://etg.dek.im)
WHY? WHY will this amazing game not continue to work on? Make me the CEO, I know python and some programming skills, i can also draw. this game has a LOT of flaws and I could fix half of them in a day! LET ME FIX and continue this game. Make me a designer or a leader or something. this game is awesome and I know im not the only one. ill make this game great once again.
@Zanarino does this man even exist anymore???
Post by: MasterWalks on May 16, 2019, 07:39:10 pm
WHY? WHY will this amazing game not continue to work on?The developer got a new job as a professor. He doesnt have the time anymore i guess. OEtG is still being worked on continuously and will be replacing this when flash dies.
Make me the CEO, I know python and some programming skills, i can also draw.While your confidence looks nice, this game is not coded in Python i think. Also, there have been lucrative offers made for the game already. If the dev declined money, i doubt he would give it away for free.
this game has a LOT of flaws and I could fix half of them in a day! LET ME FIX and continue this game. Make me a designer or a leader or something. this game is awesome and I know im not the only one. ill make this game great once again.Make Elements Great Again! Seriously though, you would not be able to fix all the problems this game has. Some of them are balacning issues, some are low playerbase issues, and most importantly, server issues. Unless you have a place we can server host or you are willing to pay for it out of pocket like the current admins do, then you can send them a PM. Its not a few lines of code here and there.
@Zanarino does this man even exist anymore???in this corner of the internet, no.
Post by: Manuel on May 16, 2019, 08:34:13 pm
i still hope to see a message by zanz, everytime i get a notification i hope it's by him
Post by: InsignificantWeeaboo on May 16, 2019, 09:35:38 pm
i still hope to see a message by zanz, everytime i get a notification i hope it's by himDon't we all?
Also +1
Post by: teffy on May 25, 2020, 09:06:16 pm
Stay healthy
Post by: Linkcat on May 26, 2020, 12:59:15 am
Post by: Snopel on August 12, 2020, 09:53:00 am
This game was my childhood and now coming back years later in hopes it'll be updated again. It's a sad and hopeless life.
Wish I could play a Rewind every now and then and go back to the glory days.
Post by: choongmyoung on October 02, 2020, 06:07:31 pm
Hello? Anyone still here? I miss you all so much &#128557;
This game was my childhood and now coming back years later in hopes it'll be updated again. It's a sad and hopeless life.
Wish I could play a Rewind every now and then and go back to the glory days.
Agreed.
Post by: Zyardran on October 02, 2020, 08:44:45 pm
AgreedHello? Anyone still here? I miss you all so much &#38;#128557;
This game was my childhood and now coming back years later in hopes it'll be updated again. It's a sad and hopeless life.
Wish I could play a Rewind every now and then and go back to the glory days.
Agreed.
Post by: Junkers on October 12, 2020, 07:38:09 am
Post by: Monox D. I-Fly on October 13, 2020, 02:34:18 am
Currently playing one TCG online, and I just shake my head at how remedial it is compared to this one...
What TCG is that? Probably I can get engaged in that one.
Post by: Junkers on October 17, 2020, 10:41:22 am
The aspect of opening booster packs is a good draw, but ultimately it's all about who has the better cards and not too much you can do in terms of building decks based on a theme or central strategy except to bum rush your opponent with more rare cards than he has. Essentially you can have two cards that do the same thing for the same cost, but the rare card also does a few extra things on top of that.
One fairly unique aspect is that the battles are automatic, you just watch them play out in a matter of a minute or two. So it's high volume card collecting and deck building, but I hit that point where I'm not gonna spend any real cash on it and can't really compete with those who do.
Doesn't compare to Elements at all...
Post by: fbparis on October 18, 2020, 11:15:45 am
Post by: asymmetry on June 18, 2021, 09:53:16 pm
Post by: chrispybacon84 on October 13, 2021, 09:41:01 pm
There are SO many new faces on this forum, welcome! There is barely anything going on in this forum unfortunately, however from the looks of things the community is still going. I can't even remember how to BBCode properly haha.
For those that see this message and remember my legendary presence (apparently) here on the forums, I came to say hello and I miss you all. I was right in the middle of my teenage years when I played elements, nearing the end of high school. To everybody who helped me with my maths homework (Afda and Physs especially), to my war 9, 10 and 11 team mates, to the friends I talked to in chat, to the mafia players I wanted to play with but was too scared to, to RapidStar_ my little brother, to all of you. I miss you all.
Hopefully we can all meet again sometime!
Post by: Linkcat on October 13, 2021, 11:20:10 pm
Much.