Shard of Gratitude heals for 4 (5 with life mark) if upgradedAwesome.
User Interface:Awesome.
New, smoother card backgrounds for entropy, death, earth, life and darkness
Added graphic effects for Silence, Sanctuary and Shard of Sacrifice
Added bands behind the name of rare cards: 2 bands=rare, 3 bands=legendary
*everything else*Awesome.
However, the introduction of such a card will put even MORE emphasis on Permanent ControlActually, it's not a permanent. It's a spell, and puts a status effect on you similar to Silence.
I see the Nymphs text had a colour change too. Wow.Mark cards (even the normal Mark) also have the colour change.
Are there ever going to be anymore Legendary cards?
Oh... Right... Silly me. =PHowever, the introduction of such a card will put even MORE emphasis on Permanent ControlActually, it's not a permanent. It's a spell, and puts a status effect on you similar to Silence.I see the Nymphs text had a colour change too. Wow.Mark cards (even the normal Mark) also have the colour change.
Are there ever going to be anymore Legendary cards?
Also, a comment on the cards: Shard of Sacrifice is pretty broken. I never liked the concept, and still don't like it now, it's far too powerful. I agree on the "cost" reduction because setting your hp to 1 was suicidal and put too much emphasis on having an Explosion ready. However, the introduction of such a card will put even MORE emphasis on Permanent Control, something many people (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,30455.0.html) deem broken already (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,30797.msg418179#msg418179) (links are to some discussions that went on in the forums recently on the subject or on related issues).SoS is currently attached to the player like Purify counters, and they actually stack on top of each other (no need to chain; each one played gives +2 to the SoS turn counter). Not even permanent control will work now.
Yes I saw that. And for that reason, I think it's almost OP.Also, a comment on the cards: Shard of Sacrifice is pretty broken. I never liked the concept, and still don't like it now, it's far too powerful. I agree on the "cost" reduction because setting your hp to 1 was suicidal and put too much emphasis on having an Explosion ready. However, the introduction of such a card will put even MORE emphasis on Permanent Control, something many people (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,30455.0.html) deem broken already (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,30797.msg418179#msg418179) (links are to some discussions that went on in the forums recently on the subject or on related issues).SoS is currently attached to the player like Purify counters, and they actually stack on top of each other (no need to chain; each one played gives +2 to the SoS turn counter). Not even permanent control will work now.
Yes I saw that. And for that reason, I think it's almost OP.No not almost, it is... the fact that you can't use PC to stop it means there really isn't a counter to it besides not doing dmg at all
This is going to sound weird but what is life and time switched their shards, time gets some sort of healing, and life could get SoR (mitosis buff) with the extra ability of first turn activation.Might as well change Time's shard to 10 men's Shard of Restoration (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,29298.0.html). Which would be a very good idea, actually.
exactlyThis is going to sound weird but what is life and time switched their shards, time gets some sort of healing, and life could get SoR (mitosis buff) with the extra ability of first turn activation.Might as well change Time's shard to 10 men's Shard of Restoration (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,29298.0.html). Which would be a very good idea, actually.
I'm using a SoS/Sundial Poison stall to farm False Gods. So far I have 100% win rate, even if you factor in the presence of SoS in THEIR deck - which is definitely annoying. I also have an about 90% EM rate. If that is not broken, I can't see what it is.Haha, good times.
Sundial currently slows down both players' win conditions by 1 turn.Wrong. SoS is an unavoidable spell effect, while both Sundial and Dims are removable. Dims are also weak to momentum.
Dimensional Shield slows down the opponent's win condition by 3 turns.
Each turn of SoS slows down the opponent's win condition by about 2 turns. At a 2 turn duration, SoS slows the opponent down by 4 turns.
Conclusion: SoS is now more powerful than Dimensional Shield and costs about the same as Sundial.
Conclusion: SoS is now more powerful than Dimensional Shield and costs about the same as Sundial.Umm ... actually, it costs more (HP + all non-death quanta). Plus, Sundial has the Hasten ability.
I'd suggest having SoS's effect only last for 1 turn, have an actual cost, and remove more HP.1 :time is ~= to the hp and dipped quanta (0-2).Conclusion: SoS is now more powerful than Dimensional Shield and costs about the same as Sundial.Umm ... actually, it costs more (HP + all non-death quanta). Plus, Sundial has the Hasten ability.
I'd say 1 :time is definitely not equal to all non- :death plus HP. Using the classic example of Holy Light, it seems 1 :light = 10 HP. SoS drains 12. Just my opinion though.I assumed standard deck building procedures would also occur (minimizing costs and maximizing benefits). Thus draining X hp < healing X hp.
i love the update, but i think the SoR is really OP (and kinda weird) with adrealine, as it doesn't really fit and makes some OP combos.I think attacking multiple times really fits the theme of :time, actually. I agree that it makes some OP combos though.
also don't like the new text colours, hope they will stay normal.
looking forward to the new shards :)!
Time to play a Silence/Sanc/SoS deck in Trainer just to see the pretty new effects. =DSilence and sanc are only visible when effective on player side, so you need to give your opponent the silences to see it.
Ugh, the green borders don't fit most of the elements at all. As someone suggested, would look better if the color was based on the element itself.This would probably get very confusing very fast because there are more than one level of rarity.
I did not see any silence special effects happen?I don't believe you can see the effects if used on the opponent. But if used on the player, you'll see a nice background image in your hand area.
ah, well ok then. i was the one who played the silence. ty for clarification :)I did not see any silence special effects happen?I don't believe you can see the effects if used on the opponent. But if used on the player, you'll see a nice background image in your hand area.
the adrenaline effect of shard of rediness isnt workin on my ulitharids (i had time quanta and mark of time, so blah)It only adds the Adrenaline effect to :time creatures.
the adrenaline effect of shard of rediness isnt workin on my ulitharids (i had time quanta and mark of time, so blah)ulitharid is not a :time creature? only gives it to :time
shard of divinity says it adds 22 in the animation, but it really only adds 20I can't seem to replicate this.
i just tried this as well and it works just fine.shard of divinity says it adds 22 in the animation, but it really only adds 20I can't seem to replicate this.
Can you provide evidence using a Screenshot?
I think SoS is a bit overpowered, If you have a protect artifact + SoS you almost win a 100%.that makes no sense.. protect artifact has nothing to do with SOS . it isnt a permanent. it puts an effect over your healthbar and thats it. The only thing i could think of to negate it is if you ran 6 anti matters and made all ur creatures heal instead to kill them. or use sundials to prevent from healing them.
I like the rest, good job!
but in the time it would take you to draw and play those antimatters, SoS will be gone and you now have antimattered creatures healing your opponentI think SoS is a bit overpowered, If you have a protect artifact + SoS you almost win a 100%.that makes no sense.. protect artifact has nothing to do with SOS . it isnt a permanent. it puts an effect over your healthbar and thats it. The only thing i could think of to negate it is if you ran 6 anti matters and made all ur creatures heal instead to kill them. or use sundials to prevent from healing them.
I like the rest, good job!
I think SoS is a bit overpowered, If you have a protect artifact + SoS you almost win a 100%.that makes no sense.. protect artifact has nothing to do with SOS . it isnt a permanent. it puts an effect over your healthbar and thats it. The only thing i could think of to negate it is if you ran 6 anti matters and made all ur creatures heal instead to kill them. or use sundials to prevent from healing them.
I like the rest, good job!
exactly.. so really only sundial can do any good.. plus draw power.
but in the time it would take you to draw and play those antimatters, SoS will be gone and you now have antimattered creatures healing your opponent
The new shard makes mono :death a possible FG grinder now :).yes and no. i put up a long fight vs obliterator and he still beat me. pulverizer did it.. octane i got lucky. dark matter rapes still. so yes it will make others much easier but they also use the shard so evens out a little.
I don't understand why SoS doesn't have a casting cost. The "drain non-death quanta" isn't a valid argument. For one, that "cost" is nothing in a mono-death, and two, why can't something like miracle have a zero cost then? It drains all light quanta anyway.Because you could use it in a deck that doesn't even use :light quanta. Plus the 15 (or 12) cost makes it hard to play.
Silence =D!Yes I saw that. And for that reason, I think it's almost OP.No not almost, it is... the fact that you can't use PC to stop it means there really isn't a counter to it besides not doing dmg at all
That's true. And that's currently true for the SoS. You can play it in a mono-death deck, which doesn't use non-death quanta.I don't understand why SoS doesn't have a casting cost. The "drain non-death quanta" isn't a valid argument. For one, that "cost" is nothing in a mono-death, and two, why can't something like miracle have a zero cost then? It drains all light quanta anyway.Because you could use it in a deck that doesn't even use :light quanta. Plus the 15 (or 12) cost makes it hard to play.
SoS as is, using the Sundial/Poison deck listed earlier. Zero practice and just jumping right in:Try adding some Dragons for Miracle avoidance and some Plagues to counter Bond gods. It should work even better, and thanks to Sundials you can draw through it easily.
Game 1: Jezebel. EM. 18 turns.
Game 2: Octane. EM. 15 turns.
Game 3: Destiny. EM. 17 turns.
Game 4: Jezebel again. EM. 19 turns.
Game 5: Fire Queen. Loss (deckout/Feral Bond)
Game 6: Dark Matter. EM. 20 turns.
Game 7: Scorpio. EM. 16 turns.
Game 8: Serket. EM. 17 turns/
Game 9: Elidnis. EM (barely!) 23 turns. (Feral Bond again)
Game 10: Graviton. EM. 16 turns.
9/10 EMs. I see losses from Fire Queen, Ferox, Miracle, and sometimes Morte, Elidnis, Paradox and Rainbow.
This is much worse than the Dive/old-SoR deck. Obviously the correct solution is to give us back the old SoR.
Also, I hated the text colors at first, but I've gotten used to it. :)
Gonna say this right off, not a fan of the text color.^My thoughts exactly. Colored rare text just doesn't seem to fit on anything (except for a few unupped nymphs)
SoS is pretty imbalanced, but I suspect that was done on purpose as usual.
Everything else is amazing; really looking forward to seeing what the rest of the Shards will do.
In this version the health loss from SoS is more of a quickly repaid investment than an actual sacrifice. I think it would be more balanced if it took away as much hp AND reduced the player's max hp by the same amount at the end of *each* turn that it was in effect.I like this idea particularly reducing the max HP. Though I'm not quite sure if reducing more HP would be wise along with this. I think it could make the card too UP.
The colored text I find looks great on some elements (e.g. other), but not so great at all on some of the rest (e.g. death).
Throw in an upgraded Hop and you have huge def too.
Enjoy your absurd amount of light quanta. I sense DEJRACTAL coming soon.
Ok, the colored text on some cards just looks ugly; I decided to use bands instead becuase they represent absolutely nothing but they look much better and are easy to spot in the deck building/bazaar.Sounds good. Keep up the good work!
I also changed the card background texture for a few elements with something more smooth.
SoS HP cost increased to 30/24.
Updated OP with the new details.
Thank you for the feedback, keep testing!
Vamp stilletto has 3 bands.Fixed Vampire Stiletto, changed all darkness bands to white since they seem so popular.
Invoke, Stream of Conciousness.
(Wishing the upped darkness cards had the white bands too, it looks really good)
Life, Water, Darkness and Air look sweeeht with the bands.
Little hard to see the bands on unupped entropy, might have made those black.
Also, good move making earth and time less similar.
Also...anyone else miss SoD's old image? Here's to hoping Zanz reuses that art for another Shard.Right here. We have yellow, green, and a white shiny one for a shard that no one uses.
Time to play devil's advocate a bit here (no pun intended).I think that SoR would give "First turn activation" instead of adrenaline if it were to move to life.
For everyone who wants to switch Shard of Gratitude and Shard of Readiness around in terms of what elements they affect, don't you think that the redundancies of Adrenaline PLUS a Shard that can also grant adrenaline to those creatures is a bit silly? Also, if Shard of Gratitude is affected by :time marks, all I know is that timebows (that often use Shard of Gratitude for healing with Sanctuary) will actually require the switched shard format in order to gain the healing boost. And yes, while Mitosis can be pricey for some creatures, I personally think that SoG fits :life and SoR still fits :time, even if SoR might break conventions regarding Adrenavu combinations.
Thanks for changing the backgrounds and adding 'bands' to the cards Zanz. :) I still think it should be (1 band = rare, 2 bands = legendary) so that the ones w/o bands are seen as the 'common' cards, but aesthetics aside, it's all awesomesauceness. ^^
I think it should give "First Turn Activation(FTA)" instead of adrenaline regardless of paired Element.Time to play devil's advocate a bit here (no pun intended).I think that SoR would give "First turn activation" instead of adrenaline if it were to move to life.
For everyone who wants to switch Shard of Gratitude and Shard of Readiness around in terms of what elements they affect, don't you think that the redundancies of Adrenaline PLUS a Shard that can also grant adrenaline to those creatures is a bit silly? Also, if Shard of Gratitude is affected by :time marks, all I know is that timebows (that often use Shard of Gratitude for healing with Sanctuary) will actually require the switched shard format in order to gain the healing boost. And yes, while Mitosis can be pricey for some creatures, I personally think that SoG fits :life and SoR still fits :time, even if SoR might break conventions regarding Adrenavu combinations.
Thanks for changing the backgrounds and adding 'bands' to the cards Zanz. :) I still think it should be (1 band = rare, 2 bands = legendary) so that the ones w/o bands are seen as the 'common' cards, but aesthetics aside, it's all awesomesauceness. ^^
I think it should give "First Turn Activation(FTA)" instead of adrenaline regardless of paired Element.This.
Or if it has already been a turn before SoR is activated, it can use the ability again in the same turn.Double RT much?
Time to play devil's advocate a bit here (no pun intended).
For everyone who wants to switch Shard of Gratitude and Shard of Readiness around in terms of what elements they affect, don't you think that the redundancies of Adrenaline PLUS a Shard that can also grant adrenaline to those creatures is a bit silly? Also, if Shard of Gratitude is affected by :time marks, all I know is that timebows (that often use Shard of Gratitude for healing with Sanctuary) will actually require the switched shard format in order to gain the healing boost. And yes, while Mitosis can be pricey for some creatures, I personally think that SoG fits :life and SoR still fits :time, even if SoR might break conventions regarding Adrenavu combinations.
Thanks for changing the backgrounds and adding 'bands' to the cards Zanz. :) I still think it should be (1 band = rare, 2 bands = legendary) so that the ones w/o bands are seen as the 'common' cards, but aesthetics aside, it's all awesomesauceness. ^^
I think it should give "First Turn Activation(FTA)" instead of adrenaline regardless of paired Element.
SoG using :rainbow to pay for the :rainbow cost has more efficient Regeneration/Cost ratio for Life marks. (3.2|4 vs 2.9|3.33) So when a Life Elemental wants healing more than damage they will use the SoG.Correction. If a Life Elemental wants healing more than damage they will use SoG and Nova/Quantum Pillar. Otherwise you're not getting quite the same bang for your buck so to speak.
Interestingly, I can't seem to purchase the arctic octopus in the link provided.Thats because its a rare card so it cant be purchased
this is kind of a trainer so you should be able tooInterestingly, I can't seem to purchase the arctic octopus in the link provided.Thats because its a rare card so it cant be purchased
Hmm...and Miracle. Yeah, that sounds like a bug then.this is kind of a trainer so you should be able tooInterestingly, I can't seem to purchase the arctic octopus in the link provided.Thats because its a rare card so it cant be purchased
check pharaoh
I guessing you mean SoS? How can the AI do that with SoD?Yeah, i meant SoS.
In this version the health loss from SoS is more of a quickly repaid investment than an actual sacrifice. I think it would be more balanced if it took away as much hp AND reduced the player's max hp by the same amount at the end of *each* turn that it was in effect.I like this idea particularly reducing the max HP. Though I'm not quite sure if reducing more HP would be wise along with this. I think it could make the card too UP.
Are you kidding? Even if you lost 12 (8 upgraded) MaxHP every time you used it, you're still left at the end with a minimum of 12 turns of complete invulnerability (which can usually be stretched out by at least another 8 turns by a clever user) and you end the entire stretch with 28 (52 upgraded) HP (and you're still getting an EM).
I think that having the sacrifice be MaxHP is a good start, but I'm honestly not sure that it's enough.
Hm... I think either of us may misunderstood the point that Chemist made. In my mind, it's going to be -12 | -8 to max HP EACH turn SoS is in effect. So, if I played 6 SoS, by the end of 12th turn I will only have 100-(12 x 12) = -44?? or 100-(8 x 12) = 4 HP left. That's the reason why I thought it will be UP if more HP is reduced each turn.Are you kidding? Even if you lost 12 (8 upgraded) MaxHP every time you used it, you're still left at the end with a minimum of 12 turns of complete invulnerability (which can usually be stretched out by at least another 8 turns by a clever user) and you end the entire stretch with 28 (52 upgraded) HP (and you're still getting an EM).In this version the health loss from SoS is more of a quickly repaid investment than an actual sacrifice. I think it would be more balanced if it took away as much hp AND reduced the player's max hp by the same amount at the end of *each* turn that it was in effect.I like this idea particularly reducing the max HP. Though I'm not quite sure if reducing more HP would be wise along with this. I think it could make the card too UP.
I think that having the sacrifice be MaxHP is a good start, but I'm honestly not sure that it's enough.
Absolutely love the elegance of the rarity bands. I do think they should be universally off-white for the unupped and dark gray for the upped, to match the card names. There would be enough contrast with :light and :darkness for it to work.Yeah that's what i'm talking about, more contrast:
I also love the new backgrounds. At first, I thought I was going to hate them, but :death's new background is much more beautiful (no more dead rocks!). Maybe they could use a little more contrast, especially :earth, which looks mostly plain on the card.
Does using sos while another is active GIVE hp or does it still take away?While the former would be hilarious, the answer would be the latter.
miracle still heals someone using SoS. This is a bug, right?Erk... I could swear it was the other way around yesterday, but probably I missed Miracle. Anyways, I've just tested it again with other healing methods namely Holy Flash, Granite Skin, SoDs, SoGs, Drain Life and of course Miracle. All inflict damage respectively except Miracle.
So wait, should your opponents vampire creatures still heal you and do damage to the opponent like if they were am'd when this is out? Because right now they dont.miracle still heals someone using SoS. This is a bug, right?Erk... I could swear it was the other way around yesterday, but probably I missed Miracle. Anyways, I've just tested it again with other healing methods namely Holy Flash, Granite Skin, SoDs, SoGs, Drain Life and of course Miracle. All inflict damage respectively except Miracle.
I'm pretty sure it's a bug, but... who knows? Zanz, reply pl0x >.<
edit: Moar tests! BH, Purify, Vampire (including Vampire Dagger), Light Nymph ability and opponent's AM'd creature deals damage as intended. Also, self inflicted damage still heals as usual; namely Firebolt, Ice Lance, Shockwave, Lightning, discarding GotP, an AM'd Vampires on my side and damaging opponent's Voodoo.
Making it a 20 (15 upgraded) reduction in MaxHP in order to use it would be entirely appropriate.I completely agree. It would be a real sacrifice. Something you can only overcome with the use of another card. The present version is not a sacrifice. It is merely an investment. You pay 30|24 hoping you get your invesment back with interest if the market is good. No to Shard of Investment, yes to shard of Sacrifice.
I'm still not sure about Shard of Sacrifice; the incoming healing from the opponent is still probably enough to heal you up fully anyway. Maybe this is being approached the wrong way? How about something like:
(http://i.imgur.com/Vwv9T.png)
The benefit to :death is more subtle, and it's less OP.
Miracle doesn't actually heal. Instead, it just sets HP at max minus 1. If it's supposed to hurt you under SoS, it's merely unintended behaviour.miracle still heals someone using SoS. This is a bug, right?Erk... I could swear it was the other way around yesterday, but probably I missed Miracle. Anyways, I've just tested it again with other healing methods namely Holy Flash, Granite Skin, SoDs, SoGs, Drain Life and of course Miracle. All inflict damage respectively except Miracle.
I'm pretty sure it's a bug, but... who knows? Zanz, reply pl0x >.<
Hm. Zanz chat from July says that Miracle will set HP to 1.Miracle doesn't actually heal. Instead, it just sets HP at max minus 1. If it's supposed to hurt you under SoS, it's merely unintended behaviour.miracle still heals someone using SoS. This is a bug, right?Erk... I could swear it was the other way around yesterday, but probably I missed Miracle. Anyways, I've just tested it again with other healing methods namely Holy Flash, Granite Skin, SoDs, SoGs, Drain Life and of course Miracle. All inflict damage respectively except Miracle.
I'm pretty sure it's a bug, but... who knows? Zanz, reply pl0x >.<
I'm still not sure about Shard of Sacrifice; the incoming healing from the opponent is still probably enough to heal you up fully anyway. Maybe this is being approached the wrong way? How about something like:
(http://i.imgur.com/Vwv9T.png)
The benefit to :death is more subtle, and it's less OP.
Miracle doesn't actually heal. Instead, it just sets HP at max minus 1. If it's supposed to hurt you under SoS, it's merely unintended behaviour.miracle still heals someone using SoS. This is a bug, right?Erk... I could swear it was the other way around yesterday, but probably I missed Miracle. Anyways, I've just tested it again with other healing methods namely Holy Flash, Granite Skin, SoDs, SoGs, Drain Life and of course Miracle. All inflict damage respectively except Miracle.
I'm pretty sure it's a bug, but... who knows? Zanz, reply pl0x >.<
Your Vampire + Your SoS = You take damage, they take damageIm tired of people talking from a developer standpoint, and not a player standpoint. I am a player, not a developer. I dont care how the mechanics work, all I care about it what the cards say they will do. Nothing more, nothing less. If a card says it is going to do something, then it should do it, even if thats not "mechanically" how the game handles it. I understand mechanically how it is working, but that doesnt mean its working properly, even if Zanz says it is intended.
Their Vampire + Your SoS = You heal, they heal
Reason:
Vampire deals damage and heals controller, then SoS inverts the damage/healing. Since SoS happens after Vampire it only inverts one of the values.
Antimatter inverts the Attack thus Vampire happens second causing a second inverted value.
Order: Antimatter, Shield, Attack, Vampire, SoS
That's why I said unintended behaviour. At no point do I talk from the developer's standpoint. What I do is look at the mechanics for an explanation as to why it may be unintended. Nice unwarranted aggressiveness though.
Miracle doesn't actually heal. Instead, it just sets HP at max minus 1. If it's supposed to hurt you under SoS, it's merely unintended behaviour.If is the key word, which means you dont state that its unintended behavior. Instead you stated the mechanic, and ignored the cards wording in the process by saying it doesnt heal.____________
...snip..I'm assuming that you are talking about the interaction between opponent's vampire (or any opponent's creature that has been LS'd) while you have SoS active.
healing and damage is swapped. A vampire attacks, it heals instead, which should drain damage the vampire player.
Order is important for players too. However it is something that is more interesting to the players that want to know the rules of the game they are playing.Your Vampire + Your SoS = You take damage, they take damageIm tired of people talking from a developer standpoint, and not a player standpoint. I am a player, not a developer. I dont care how the mechanics work, all I care about it what the cards say they will do. Nothing more, nothing less. If a card says it is going to do something, then it should do it, even if thats not "mechanically" how the game handles it. I understand mechanically how it is working, but that doesnt mean its working properly, even if Zanz says it is intended.
Their Vampire + Your SoS = You heal, they heal
Reason:
Vampire deals damage and heals controller, then SoS inverts the damage/healing. Since SoS happens after Vampire it only inverts one of the values.
Antimatter inverts the Attack thus Vampire happens second causing a second inverted value.
Order: Antimatter, Shield, Attack, Vampire, SoS
To put it simple though....
(http://i.imgur.com/ZcpPX.png)
healing and damage is swapped. A vampire attacks, it heals instead, which should drain damage the vampire player.
Event Sequence | Controller of Vampire | Controller of SoS |
Attack | nothing | Damage |
Vampire | Healing | Damage |
SoS | Healing | Healing |
EtG is not a game for card literalists the way other games are. Cards often do something other than exactly what they say. Bonewall and Morningstar immediately come to mind.Miracle doesn't actually heal. Instead, it just sets HP at max minus 1. If it's supposed to hurt you under SoS, it's merely unintended behaviour.miracle still heals someone using SoS. This is a bug, right?Erk... I could swear it was the other way around yesterday, but probably I missed Miracle. Anyways, I've just tested it again with other healing methods namely Holy Flash, Granite Skin, SoDs, SoGs, Drain Life and of course Miracle. All inflict damage respectively except Miracle.
I'm pretty sure it's a bug, but... who knows? Zanz, reply pl0x >.<Your Vampire + Your SoS = You take damage, they take damageIm tired of people talking from a developer standpoint, and not a player standpoint. I am a player, not a developer. I dont care how the mechanics work, all I care about it what the cards say they will do. Nothing more, nothing less. If a card says it is going to do something, then it should do it, even if thats not "mechanically" how the game handles it. I understand mechanically how it is working, but that doesnt mean its working properly, even if Zanz says it is intended.
Their Vampire + Your SoS = You heal, they heal
Reason:
Vampire deals damage and heals controller, then SoS inverts the damage/healing. Since SoS happens after Vampire it only inverts one of the values.
Antimatter inverts the Attack thus Vampire happens second causing a second inverted value.
Order: Antimatter, Shield, Attack, Vampire, SoS
To put it simple though....
(http://i.imgur.com/ZcpPX.png)
healing and damage is swapped. A vampire attacks, it heals instead, which should drain damage the vampire player.
(http://elementscommunity.org/images/Cards/ImprovedMiracle.png)
HEAL is the key word. I honestly dont care mechanically how ANY card works if it differentiates from what the card SAYS.
It is great to have such a dedicated fanbase, and dont get me wrong, I have defended trying out cards to understand how they work, HOWEVER, if a card SPECIFICALLY SAYS one thing, and DOESNT DO IT, then there is a problem. Intended behavior will seem like a bug. Vampire I can sort of understand (despite its inconsistency), but there is no excuse for miracle to still heal. Im hoping that it truely is just a bug, and not intended behavior.
OH MY GOSH I STILL GOT HEALED ITS A MIRACLE!!!
That's a crazy and wise philosopher's discution xDOrder is important for players too. However it is something that is more interesting to the players that want to know the rules of the game they are playing.Your Vampire + Your SoS = You take damage, they take damageIm tired of people talking from a developer standpoint, and not a player standpoint. I am a player, not a developer. I dont care how the mechanics work, all I care about it what the cards say they will do. Nothing more, nothing less. If a card says it is going to do something, then it should do it, even if thats not "mechanically" how the game handles it. I understand mechanically how it is working, but that doesnt mean its working properly, even if Zanz says it is intended.
Their Vampire + Your SoS = You heal, they heal
Reason:
Vampire deals damage and heals controller, then SoS inverts the damage/healing. Since SoS happens after Vampire it only inverts one of the values.
Antimatter inverts the Attack thus Vampire happens second causing a second inverted value.
Order: Antimatter, Shield, Attack, Vampire, SoS
To put it simple though....
(http://i.imgur.com/ZcpPX.png)
healing and damage is swapped. A vampire attacks, it heals instead, which should drain damage the vampire player.
Imagine you had a Guardian Angel targeted both by the Lightning spell and Heal ability. Is its current hp 1 or 6? This depends on which happens first.
Vampire: "The damage dealt is returned to you as healing."
SoS: Swap Damage with Healing
If SoS triggers before Vampire then your interpretation is correct.
Creature attacks, damage is swapped with healing, Vampire returns healing as damage
If Vampire triggers before SoS then your interpretation is incorrect.
Creature attacks, Vampire returns damage as healing, damage is swapped with healing
The second case occurs, therefore SoS triggers after Vampire has passed on the healing.
Event Sequence Controller of Vampire Controller of SoS Attack nothing Damage Vampire Healing Damage SoS Healing Healing
In my opinion, it must change both player's damage and heal:Explain what should happen then if you had both the SoS and the vampire on your side of the field and they had nothing.
common vamp attak: attak oponent and heal you for that damage
with SoS: heal oponent the amount of damage he would be taken and that's the damage you take.
In my opinion, it must change both player's damage and heal:I see that it might be wise if I lay out both possible options.
common vamp attak: attak oponent and heal you for that damage
with SoS: heal oponent the amount of damage he would be taken and that's the damage you take.
They don't have SoS | They have SoS | |
You don't have SoS | You heal, They take damage | You heal, They heal |
You have SoS | You take damage, They take damage | You take damage, They heal |
They don't have SoS | They have SoS | |
You don't have SoS | You heal, They take damage | You take damage, They heal |
You have SoS | You heal, They take damage | You take damage, They heal |
..snipUgh.. I have to admit that your post make this even more confusing, Oldtree. Since I'm not entirely sure I get what you are saying, pardon me if this make little sense to you.
Order is important for players too. However it is something that is more interesting to the players that want to know the rules of the game they are playing.
Imagine you had a Guardian Angel targeted both by the Lightning spell and Heal ability. Is its current hp 1 or 6? This depends on which happens first.
Vampire: "The damage dealt is returned to you as healing."
SoS: Swap Damage [to you] with Healing [to you]. [The to you is implied by the condition only affecting one player]
If SoS triggers before Vampire then your interpretation is correct.
Creature attacks, damage is swapped with healing, Vampire returns healing as damage
If Vampire triggers before SoS then your interpretation is incorrect.
Creature attacks, Vampire returns damage as healing, damage is swapped with healing
The second case occurs, therefore SoS triggers after Vampire has passed on the healing.
Event Sequence Controller of Vampire Controller of SoS Attack nothing Damage Vampire Healing Damage SoS Healing Healing
if what you guys are talking about is supposed to apply to creatures with the vampire ability, would it also apply to Siphon Life??? and my other question is that if you are playing your hand and then end your turn, how would the opponent activate the SoS before your vampires had finished attacking? it seems like it would be that these effects would only occur if the opponent had already played the SoS and never the other way around... in my opinion i think that an attacking vampire going against an opponent with a SoS already in play should have the same effect as a vampire that has been hit with antimatter, thus inverting the healing and damage for both players (damaging the owner and healing the opponent... now if an antimattered vampire attacked a player with a SoS out would it do damage??? i can't figure it out because my mind is all confused)I was talking about the timing/layering of the effects that were triggered by the combat phase. Both Vampire and SoS were already in play however (as the game is now) during the combat the Vampire effect is triggered and resolved before the SoS effect is triggered and resolved.
OLD | NEW |
(http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy150/BhlewosAQW/ElementsTheGame/entropyOld.png) | (http://www.elementsthegame.com/bkgcard/entropy.jpg) |
(http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy150/BhlewosAQW/ElementsTheGame/deathOld.png) | (http://www.elementsthegame.com/bkgcard/death.jpg) |
(http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy150/BhlewosAQW/ElementsTheGame/earthOld.png) | (http://www.elementsthegame.com/bkgcard/earth.jpg) |
(http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy150/BhlewosAQW/ElementsTheGame/lifeOld.png) | (http://www.elementsthegame.com/bkgcard/life.jpg) |
(http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy150/BhlewosAQW/ElementsTheGame/darknessOld.png) | (http://www.elementsthegame.com/bkgcard/darkness.jpg) |
The cost won't be reversed.I guess its simply my bad for taking for granted when I click "All Cards" I actually get all of the cards. Minor problem at best.
They are available from the bazaar.
Shard of SerendipityI believe it is intended to act as a kind of Fractal or Mindgate card-creation engine. That means a QT Speedbow will use it to draw 3 cards and probably play them. It's either a new Fate Egg or a new rush powerhouse, we'll test it soon enough.
When it says draw up to 3 random cards the first will be :entropy. I think testing will be needed but having a card in a Quantum tower SN speedbow seems a little OP. Imagine you have the ability to call up a SN(since they are pretty much the only :entropy cards there) and 2 other cards. I think a 36 card speed bow with 6 of these would be able to put out its entire deck more reliably and faster then a normal 30 card speed bow.
Mono Other is going to be a very decent strategy, Mark of darkness, 6 Shard of Void, 6 Shard of divitity, 6 Shard of Sacrifice. 6 of some other stalling shard and 6 Quantum towers.That would be... well, a LOT of rares for a single deck. :P
Mono Other is going to be a very decent strategy, Mark of darkness, 6 Shard of Void, 6 Shard of divitity, 6 Shard of Sacrifice. 6 of some other stalling shard and 6 Quantum towers.No QTs, I'd rather play Novas. Way faster start. Also, how could you forget SoG?
because sos and sog dont mixMono Other is going to be a very decent strategy, Mark of darkness, 6 Shard of Void, 6 Shard of divitity, 6 Shard of Sacrifice. 6 of some other stalling shard and 6 Quantum towers.No QTs, I'd rather play Novas. Way faster start. Also, how could you forget SoG?
Hm. That much is true. x) So. 6 Shard of Void, 6 Shard of Divinity, 6 Shard of Sacrifice, 4 Quantum Tower, 2 Protect Artifact and 6 Novas?because sos and sog dont mixMono Other is going to be a very decent strategy, Mark of darkness, 6 Shard of Void, 6 Shard of divitity, 6 Shard of Sacrifice. 6 of some other stalling shard and 6 Quantum towers.No QTs, I'd rather play Novas. Way faster start. Also, how could you forget SoG?
My understanding was the shard of serendipity draws random cards from all of elements, not just your deck. You might get something you can effectively use, but you might get something like flooding and rustler, too :pWhich is exactly why it is either excellent or absolutely useless. If the average number of useful cards is greater than the average number of useless ones, it's awesome. If it's not, it's useless. Fate Egg, anyone?
That kind of card advantage still has the power to be game breaking, even if occasionally you draw a rustler, flooding, or whatever you might consider to be a "dead" card.My understanding was the shard of serendipity draws random cards from all of elements, not just your deck. You might get something you can effectively use, but you might get something like flooding and rustler, too :pWhich is exactly why it is either excellent or absolutely useless. If the average number of useful cards is greater than the average number of useless ones, it's awesome. If it's not, it's useless. Fate Egg, anyone?
SoD gives bonus for Light +3 or +4 HP.I was expecting a bigger nerf to SoG with a larger bonus to :life
SoR gives bonus for Time + 6-9 attack each turn.
Sorry, but it isn't fair... SoD and SoG needs buff for Light and Life if this game want be fair. Maybe SoD should also purify HP status when mark is Light, or maybe it should heal Light Creatures... Now bonus for SoD and SoG comparing with others bonuses isn't so good.
(http://i.imgur.com/x8juT.png) | So the negative effect is for all but the positive one is just for water creature. So basically only water player will use this card. What is the interest of having a :rainbow cost, then? Water need more love, not more laugh ... |
Might be a good time to just leave this little link right here...Me wants.
Want new card art? (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,29727.0/topicseen.html)
Might be a good time to just leave this little link right here...And new background for Wyrm|Elite Wyrm... ;)
Want new card art? (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,29727.0/topicseen.html)
SoV looks sexy i cant wait to use it in my devourer stall.It suddenly occurs to me that Shard of Void is EXACTLY what Decay needs to not suck male genitalia.
Shard of patience is now available in the beta bazaar as well, with some interesting modifications. Flooding now works on n>5 creatures (used to be n>7).YEPPEEEEE lets test
Have fun.
The new Shard of Patience makes Dune Scorpion and Deathstalkers viable in Monos. I'm not sure how I feel about this.Meh. It's a buff, so you have to draw them in the right order, and hopefully several Stalkers before piling Shards, and then hope they don't get rewound besides worrying about killing CC.
(It now gives +1|+1 to non-Water creatures, +2|+2 to Water creatures, +4|+4 to Flooded Water creatures, for those who haven't seen the Beta, yet.)
edit2: ( and kind of a question too) i spotted that water and neutral creatures are immune, the only creature neutral i know is malignant, so is this a little spoil for some new cards ? ^^That wording has been on the card forever, so I doubt we'll be seeing anymore other creatures anytime soon.
its also on the actual card but i spotted it now
Shard of | Unupped Code | Upped Code |
Divinity | 4t6 | 6rm |
Gratitude | 4t7 | 6rn |
Readiness | 4ta | 6rq |
Sacrifice | 4td | 6rt |
Void | 4te | 6ru |
Patience | 4tf | 6rv |
Serendipity | 4tg | 6s0 |
:fire more destruction or a weapon buff.Seriously? That'd be the very last thing Fire would need..
:/ Fractal Ball Lightning worries me a bit. It feels like the game is turning into a blitzkrieg.Hmm? Blitztal has been around since, well, blitz and it can get 3tk which a SoP deck just won't do.
It doesn't have the same explosive power of a blitz deck, but it has A LOT more staying power. The only thing that can stop a free 6/1 fractallable creature is mass CC...:/ Fractal Ball Lightning worries me a bit. It feels like the game is turning into a blitzkrieg.Hmm? Blitztal has been around since, well, blitz and it can get 3tk which a SoP deck just won't do.
I'm loving SoSerendipity/Void, I see SoSacrifice hasn't been changed this update, I hope this doesn't mean it's going live in it's current form.
1. After noticing the afore-mentioned buff to SoP, I decided to try a Fractal Mind Flayer deck. I made one, went to AI3 to test it out, and then noticed that by playing multiple SoPs I could gain the damage from extra SoP's, and still only wait 1 turn for the creatures to 'revive'. While this is pretty good, I was wondering if it was intentional?It seems intentional that the delay isn't cumulative, as the only special case where it is cumulative is with Warden.
2. Why was SoS given to AI with healing? I was testing the above SoP deck and I had 2hp, was about to be finished by AI's Owl's Eye, when BANG, I won. I was puzzled by this, wondering why I had won. Then I realized that the AI had multiple Empathic Bond's in play, along with a FFQ and a couple of other creatures. It had literally healed itself to death. So I was wondering why that particular AI had been given SoS, when it would be so easy for it to commit suicide?All AI are given the new cards in Beta to see how they use it and thus spot unintended behaviour and bugs.
More importantly, it scales in damage like a Destroyer rush. You can have 80 damage per turn out by turn 7 (or faster if lucky). Luckily, you won't have done any more damage on the previous turns unless you add it to the deck (such as a weapon. I actually like Dirk with Death mark), but often you can Fractal again and actually achieve a OTK.It doesn't have the same explosive power of a blitz deck, but it has A LOT more staying power. The only thing that can stop a free 6/1 fractallable creature is mass CC...:/ Fractal Ball Lightning worries me a bit. It feels like the game is turning into a blitzkrieg.Hmm? Blitztal has been around since, well, blitz and it can get 3tk which a SoP deck just won't do.
I'm loving SoSerendipity/Void, I see SoSacrifice hasn't been changed this update, I hope this doesn't mean it's going live in it's current form.
It flooded all but 7 before and it was widely considered one of the most underpowered cards in the game. The difference between 7 and 5 is subtle enough that it only affects some decks.Yes, i agree with you saying that flooding is underpowered before. So, it should be changed.
If you have a deck with few, no, or water creatures, flooding does basically nothing to you. Any other deck is weakened at least moderately. That is how flooding has always worked. Now it affects certain decks with a fairly good amount of creatures as well. As I said, it's a fairly subtle buff in this regard.
Then you mentioned SoP. Remember that you have to get a 6th creature onto the field for it to get the extra bonus, which either requires a stall with tons of creatures or a deck that can produce more creatures. And your creatures are delayed for one turn, giving your opponent time to adapt.
Think about it zanz.I can agree with You. I think that buffing Flooding is important, but this buff isn't a good way to solve problem. For me Flooding is very good chance to nerf :fire element. Fire as only one element can damage Flooding as mono (steal do nothing). So we should make a bonus, which will be problem for Fire, not for FQ, Faraon etc.
Make flooding work for 5 creature will make your elements the game ruins.
Steal in a mono does destroy flooding, as a mono-darkness has no :water quanta to absorb. Entropy also has PC in a mono through Butterfly Effect, and Pulverizer's ability can be run off of mark and pendulums, allowing it to also be a technical mono.Ok, You are right with Steal - my mistake ;)
As much as I agree with you on the air thing, I don't think there should be any cards that specifically counter a certain element.Steal in a mono does destroy flooding, as a mono-darkness has no :water quanta to absorb. Entropy also has PC in a mono through Butterfly Effect, and Pulverizer's ability can be run off of mark and pendulums, allowing it to also be a technical mono.Ok, You are right with Steal - my mistake ;)
But I still think, that buff Flooding should hurt more Fire, not all elements. This buff is a big nerf for Air (which is poor element), because Air has got a lot of small creatures + FQ. So it isn't good way, especially when Air hasn't got PC.
For growthing Destroyers or Dragons 15/2 Flooding still do nothing...
You're forgetting Holy Flash, though I agree with the sentiment.:air (and :life) has got a lot of small creatures. Small creatures = You need more creatures to make big damage. What is more, :air has got Damsefly, which block position 1-5. In :fire or :gravity You haven't got this problem, because You can have easily less creatures, but with bigger attack (Accerelation, Catapult, Growthing fire creatures, 15/2 Dragon or Fire Lance). In fire decks, You can also use Immolation (to destroy for example Ash Eater and get 9 :fire and 11 :rainbow). In Air it isn't so easy and cheap as in fire (and killing our creature didn't add 20 quantum as in fire...)
Also, I'm not seeing how the flooding buff is disproportionately effective against air.
Air also has Unstable Gas and thus does not need creatures to beat Flooding.You're forgetting Holy Flash, though I agree with the sentiment.:air (and :life) has got a lot of small creatures. Small creatures = You need more creatures to make big damage. What is more, :air has got Damsefly, which block position 1-5. In :fire or :gravity You haven't got this problem, because You can have easily less creatures, but with bigger attack (Accerelation, Catapult, Growthing fire creatures, 15/2 Dragon or Fire Lance). In fire decks, You can also use Immolation (to destroy for example Ash Eater and get 9 :fire and 11 :rainbow). In Air it isn't so easy and cheap as in fire (and killing our creature didn't add 20 quantum as in fire...)
Also, I'm not seeing how the flooding buff is disproportionately effective against air.
So this change really hurts weak Air Element and Life. It do nothing for Fire, Gravity and probably Aether (so it do nothing for the best elements, and hurts weaker).
Air has small creatures. Every single element has small creatures. They're not necessarily used. For example, I would never put damselflies in my mono-air deck. (admittedly, mono-air isn't too great, in my opinion) Flooding isn't a big nerf to mono-air or life. It's a big nerf to creature spam, which is perfectly acceptable- there aren't a lot of ways to deal with creature spam (mass CC isn't used often). In fact, if you discount the new shard's buff to water creatures you could argue that flooding is still UP- it doesn't really do much against the lava destroyer on turn 1.You're forgetting Holy Flash, though I agree with the sentiment.:air (and :life) has got a lot of small creatures. Small creatures = You need more creatures to make big damage. What is more, :air has got Damsefly, which block position 1-5. In :fire or :gravity You haven't got this problem, because You can have easily less creatures, but with bigger attack (Accerelation, Catapult, Growthing fire creatures, 15/2 Dragon or Fire Lance). In fire decks, You can also use Immolation (to destroy for example Ash Eater and get 9 :fire and 11 :rainbow). In Air it isn't so easy and cheap as in fire (and killing our creature didn't add 20 quantum as in fire...)
Also, I'm not seeing how the flooding buff is disproportionately effective against air.
So this change really hurts weak Air Element and Life. It do nothing for Fire, Gravity and probably Aether (so it do nothing for the best elements, and hurts weaker).
It's a big nerf to creature spam, which is perfectly acceptableOk, but in :fire :aether or :gravity You haven't got creature spam. In :air or :life decks You have it, because it is specific for this elements. Air and Life has got fast, small and cheap creatures and they need more space to game. So it is big nerf for this Elements in my opinion.
Air also has Unstable Gas and thus does not need creatures to beat Flooding.You need Fire to Unstable Gas. All duos with Fire can beat Flooding (Explosion), so this argument isn't so good for me. Mono Air/Life or a lot of duos with Air/Life will have big problems now. Do we really need nerf Air and Life?
Both :air and :life also have good dragons. Also see Adrenaline from Life which effectively increases there non flooded spots by 3 per adrenaline Firefly/Horned Frog. While were at it lets take a look at Skyblitz which doubles the atk for 1 turn (x4 with dive). :air :life has lots of ways to evade a Flooding defense.QuoteIt's a big nerf to creature spam, which is perfectly acceptableOk, but in :fire :aether or :gravity You haven't got creature spam. In :air or :life decks You have it, because it is specific for this elements. Air and Life has got fast, small and cheap creatures and they need more space to game. So it is big nerf for this Elements in my opinion.Air also has Unstable Gas and thus does not need creatures to beat Flooding.You need Fire to Unstable Gas. All duos with Fire can beat Flooding (Explosion), so this argument isn't so good for me. Mono Air/Life or a lot of duos with Air/Life will have big problems now. Do we really need nerf Air and Life?
I don't want to say, that beat opponent with Air or Life is impossible. I only said, that now it is more difficult.Both :air and :life also have good dragons. Also see Adrenaline from Life which effectively increases there non flooded spots by 3 per adrenaline Firefly/Horned Frog. While were at it lets take a look at Skyblitz which doubles the atk for 1 turn (x4 with dive). :air :life has lots of ways to evade a Flooding defense.QuoteIt's a big nerf to creature spam, which is perfectly acceptableOk, but in :fire :aether or :gravity You haven't got creature spam. In :air or :life decks You have it, because it is specific for this elements. Air and Life has got fast, small and cheap creatures and they need more space to game. So it is big nerf for this Elements in my opinion.Air also has Unstable Gas and thus does not need creatures to beat Flooding.You need Fire to Unstable Gas. All duos with Fire can beat Flooding (Explosion), so this argument isn't so good for me. Mono Air/Life or a lot of duos with Air/Life will have big problems now. Do we really need nerf Air and Life?
First, Adrenaline Firefly (12|2 generate :light :light :light :light) is not a small creature.I don't want to say, that beat opponent with Air or Life is impossible. I only said, that now it is more difficult.Both :air and :life also have good dragons. Also see Adrenaline from Life which effectively increases there non flooded spots by 3 per adrenaline Firefly/Horned Frog. While were at it lets take a look at Skyblitz which doubles the atk for 1 turn (x4 with dive). :air :life has lots of ways to evade a Flooding defense.QuoteIt's a big nerf to creature spam, which is perfectly acceptableOk, but in :fire :aether or :gravity You haven't got creature spam. In :air or :life decks You have it, because it is specific for this elements. Air and Life has got fast, small and cheap creatures and they need more space to game. So it is big nerf for this Elements in my opinion.Air also has Unstable Gas and thus does not need creatures to beat Flooding.You need Fire to Unstable Gas. All duos with Fire can beat Flooding (Explosion), so this argument isn't so good for me. Mono Air/Life or a lot of duos with Air/Life will have big problems now. Do we really need nerf Air and Life?
One simply question - which color will have bigger problem with this buffing Flooding? Fire (with the best PC, growthing creatures, Fire Lances) or Air/Life (without PC, with a lot small creatures)?
I understand change when Fire/Entropy/etc. decks will have bigger problems, but why Air and Life? It isn't fair, especially for Air which is one of the worst Elements (with Water) in game. Have You ever seen Air deck as the best in Arena? We have only Fire/Fire/Fire/Rainbow/Fire/Fire/Dark/Fire/GoP+Nightmare. This Shard makes bigger difference between the best and the weakness elements. One simple change - HP underwater (untargetable for FireLance, Shockwave, Lighting) or maybe protecting permaments in both sides while Flooding is in game instead n>5 solve this problem.
I know that we all want to see other elements weaker, when we using Fire/Rainbow decks. I also play Rainbow, but I want to see fine decks with other Elements. So I want to see better bonus in Shards for Life, Light and really powerful Shard for Air. That's all ;)
Air hasn't got Adrenaline, but it doesn't matter. I don't want to be an advocate of Air or Life. You think that this is good, no problem for me :) We can still have 2-3 dominated colours, I accepted this.First Adrenaline Firefly (12|2 generate :light :light :light :light) is not a small creature.I don't want to say, that beat opponent with Air or Life is impossible. I only said, that now it is more difficult.Both :air and :life also have good dragons. Also see Adrenaline from Life which effectively increases there non flooded spots by 3 per adrenaline Firefly/Horned Frog. While were at it lets take a look at Skyblitz which doubles the atk for 1 turn (x4 with dive). :air :life has lots of ways to evade a Flooding defense.QuoteIt's a big nerf to creature spam, which is perfectly acceptableOk, but in :fire :aether or :gravity You haven't got creature spam. In :air or :life decks You have it, because it is specific for this elements. Air and Life has got fast, small and cheap creatures and they need more space to game. So it is big nerf for this Elements in my opinion.Air also has Unstable Gas and thus does not need creatures to beat Flooding.You need Fire to Unstable Gas. All duos with Fire can beat Flooding (Explosion), so this argument isn't so good for me. Mono Air/Life or a lot of duos with Air/Life will have big problems now. Do we really need nerf Air and Life?
One simply question - which color will have bigger problem with this buffing Flooding? Fire (with the best PC, growthing creatures, Fire Lances) or Air/Life (without PC, with a lot small creatures)?
I understand change when Fire/Entropy/etc. decks will have bigger problems, but why Air and Life? It isn't fair, especially for Air which is one of the worst Elements (with Water) in game. Have You ever seen Air deck as the best in Arena? We have only Fire/Fire/Fire/Rainbow/Fire/Fire/Dark/Fire/GoP+Nightmare. This Shard makes bigger difference between the best and the weakness elements. One simple change - HP underwater (untargetable for FireLance, Shockwave, Lighting) or maybe protecting permaments in both sides while Flooding is in game instead n>5 solve this problem.
I know that we all want to see other elements weaker, when we using Fire/Rainbow decks. I also play Rainbow, but I want to see fine decks with other Elements. So I want to see better bonus in Shards for Life, Light and really powerful Shard for Air. That's all ;)
Do you see every buff as a zero sum game? Water had a UP card that was not able to contribute to the metagame. Now that card can contribute. It has not knocked any other cards to incompetency in the process. This is improvement. Part of Fire's dominance is due to it having a complete set of Offense, Defense and Evasion/Counterdefense. Flooding is a Defense and all elements already have Evasion/Counterdefense to it. This means the buff has no net negative effects. What you want is for Air Life and Water to be buffed to match Fire. This is a first step in that direction.
I would suggest you study the theoretical and existing methods of Evasion/Counterdefense. You seem to be overlooking many of these measures when evaluating the impact of Defensive measures.
It would make a lot more sense for a new card to be added that allows Water to defend against Direct damage than for Flooding to be overcomplicated to that end. Alternatively Water's current defense against Direct damage (Purify) could be buffed by being made into a permanent with a skill that adds Regeneration counters.
Oh lol, I forgot to remove the max hp number. I added it to test the shard; I am going to fix it with the next patch.Aw, I was hoping it was intentional. Math it is then!
Oh lol, I forgot to remove the max hp number. I added it to test the shard; I am going to fix it with the next patch.Leave it IMO, it's nice.
Upped Shard of Serendipity, y u give me upped cards?Patchin'
This is just laziness talking, but could you possibly just add the cards to the button that gives all cards, this way i don't have to first buy them, then upgrade them. :)Patience grasshoppah. New cards never get the all cards treatment for awhile.
I still protest on Shard of Readiness' limited usability and most importantly because it's Not Working As (I Had) Intended - it will NOT be used for its primary effect, it will be used as an in-element Adrenaline for Time, which is not unique and rather underwhelming - (oh, and for creating yet another terribly fast deck).I agree with this. It is like adrenaline card for Time. SoR make big advantage to Time.. In other side, SoG never give more advantages to Life..
I still share the general feeling that Shard of Sacrifice is OP to the core. It should have a meaningful cost, and quite possibly be reduced to one turn (it still means, under current ruling, that barring the VERY few counters you are gaining two turns of safety - one of invulnerability, one thanks to the healing you got -, just like the old Sundial).i agree again... I hate seeing enemy playing that and chaining that means 12 turns i cannot do anything good against that..
Still my favourite suggestion.
(http://i.imgur.com/Vwv9T.png)
The benefit to :death is more subtle, and it's less OP.
@SoSbut 4 unupped SoS will be an instant kill!
healing cards should be changed so you can target either player. obviously a player playing SoS' wont be packing a lot of healing cards and even still, they wont use them if they have an SoS in play, so the only healing you can give to them is from your anti mattered creatures, but anti mattering your creatures is not the smartest thing to do since SoS' effect is limited.
Hmm ... :earth textures.lol'ed at this... a lot...
Before:
(http://i.imgur.com/xaEal.png)
After:
(http://i.imgur.com/9FkIf.png)
AI does not commit suicide anymore using SoS.Unfortunately, it still plays SoS before shields. Bone Wall and Dimensional Shield are the best examples of wasted healing and advantage.
Nice job.hmm. too much IMO. If hp loss is permanent, maybe just around 15.
I also find Shard of Sacrifice is too powerful.
Instead of dealing 24 damage, I would prefer it to reduce max hp by 24. That's sacrifice.
I'm not too sure about SoS. It gives Death rush frightening potential. Sure it isn't entirely a rush anymore, but it can get rush-like damage out, while at the same time having a real good defensive game. Although granted the deck I made would crumble to mass CC. There are certain things that can potentially beat SoS though, like heavy heavy stalls, OTK's, and so on. Overall I do think that it should give some reduction to max hp, but really in some cases you only need one, and all this talk about the new patch creating a blitz game... SoS pretty much neuters any rush, so thats something.Well the patch will turn the game into a blitzkrieg AFTER the obvious Shard of Sacrifice nerf. It WILL be nerfed, because as it is it turns the game into rock-paper-scissor with a 5% of your choice to miss-fire and lose anyway due to bad luck.
Mebbe zanz likes a thrown game of rock-paper-scissors. Challenges galore!I'm not too sure about SoS. It gives Death rush frightening potential. Sure it isn't entirely a rush anymore, but it can get rush-like damage out, while at the same time having a real good defensive game. Although granted the deck I made would crumble to mass CC. There are certain things that can potentially beat SoS though, like heavy heavy stalls, OTK's, and so on. Overall I do think that it should give some reduction to max hp, but really in some cases you only need one, and all this talk about the new patch creating a blitz game... SoS pretty much neuters any rush, so thats something.Well the patch will turn the game into a blitzkrieg AFTER the obvious Shard of Sacrifice nerf. It WILL be nerfed, because as it is it turns the game into rock-paper-scissor with a 5% of your choice to miss-fire and lose anyway due to bad luck.
I probably should note something, incase it wasn't brought up earlier. Serendipity doesn't give the Ai all of the cards at times when it is played. I did have Ai speed on high when this happened though, and it happened a couple times. I'm assuming that it is just trying to play the new cards too fast.But PA's and quint only disables targeting, and will not make the permanent indestructible. Therefore a PA'ed bonewall cannot be targeted by spells but will be affected by attacking hits.
Also realized that Protect Artifact'd Bone Wall functions normally via "that silly ai", which is weird since it seems like it should trigger the same clause that dissapation shield and sanctuary does.
9. Quanta pool capped at 50 quanta per elementCould someone explain why? This makes Stoneskin a very sad panda :(
(http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/freddie-mercury-rage-pose-template.png)
5. Explosion cost increased to 3/2
6. Ash stats decreased to 0/5
7. Shroedinger cat skill cost reduced to 1 :entropy
8. Immolation :fire gain reduced to 6(8upped)
9. Quanta pool capped at 50 quanta per element
Please test it, have fun, and give me some feedback.
I am uploading a new beta version with several new things to try, mainly about balance:Nice to see the boost in health of SoD, SoP is pretty good too. It works on scorpion decks, but isn't super OP when used with fractal sparks. SoS isn't as OP anymore, and SoR can make some wicked combos with scarabs, pharaohs, and anubis.
1. Shard of gratitude heals 3 (5 if :life mark) both for upped and unupped(cost 5)
2. Shard of Divinity adds 16 (24 if :light mark) both for upped and unupped(cost 5)
3. Shard of Patience non :water creatures gain +1/+0
4. Shard of sacrifice HP cost increased to 40/32 if upped
5. Shard of readiness lets :time creatures use their skill immediately and twice (instead of adrenaline)
5. Explosion cost increased to 3/2
6. Ash stats decreased to 0/5
7. Shroedinger cat skill cost reduced to 1 :entropy
8. Immolation :fire gain reduced to 6(8upped)
9. Quanta pool capped at 50 quanta per element
Please test it, have fun, and give me some feedback.
Like the infamous overused Fire Stall!9. Quanta pool capped at 50 quanta per elementCould someone explain why? This makes Stoneskin a very sad panda :(
It's also a killing blow to any bolt stall.
Since SoG would now stack, I don't think it has truly been nerfed, arena decks will enjoy the ridicule healing, hmm...OMG, imagine this in an immortal type deck.
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
Rationale for quanta cap:Well, if there are cards that increase the capacity, then even 100 is good as a cap. At least firestalls will need some more creativity.
Things tend to go broken when variables have no limit. Stoneskin has a limit because of that and future cards might need the cap as well. The cap is more effective at limiting arena decks where generating large amount of quanta is relatively easy and often exploited. The current damage limit for bolts and Fahrenheit is also infinite, which is a tad too high.
The cap does not need to be at "50" and future cards can increase the quanta pool capacity creating new interesting strategies.
All these changes are not set in stone yet, but please test them before you jump to conclusions.
P.S.: I also added a special treat for fate egg and deja vu if used with SoR, they also can use their skill twice.
1. Shard of gratitude heals 3 (5 if :life mark) both for upped and unupped(cost 5)Finally a real nerf to fire stall with a small nerf to immorush. Oh Zanzarino, you make me happy!
6. Explosion cost increased to 3/2
7. Ash stats decreased to 0/5
9. Immolation :fire gain reduced to 6(8upped)
10. Quanta pool capped at 50 quanta per element
5. Shard of readiness lets :time creatures use their skill immediately and twice (instead of adrenaline)This is very good. It is more in the theme IMO. It would be completely perfect if it was also usable on permanents. I mean, it would also increase the usefulness of the cards for all elements, not only for time.
I could just imagine AI derping with that. "SoR on my Golden Hourglasses! Draw 10 cards a turn! Oh wait, I'm out? Bummer."5. Shard of readiness lets :time creatures use their skill immediately and twice (instead of adrenaline)This is very good. It is more in the theme IMO. It would be completely perfect if it was also usable on permanents. I mean, it would also increase the usefulness of the cards for all elements, not only for time.
*leaves*You can not leave Napalm: Elements needs you; besides, if you leave you are going to miss the creation of the next fire card and that is the first item in my "to do" list after I am done with the shards.
A new Fire card? I suppose they do have few cards compared to other elements ... will Aether be next?*leaves*You can not leave Napalm: Elements needs you; besides, if you leave you are going to miss the creation of the next fire card and that is the first item in my "to do" list after I am done with the shards.
I am uploading a new beta version with several new things to try, mainly about balance:1. SoG at 3/5 is pretty much perfect. Still enables unupped Firestall with Life mark, but with the Firestall nerfing below, it's not a major problem. It allows healing in every deck, but it's not major healing: that's restricted to Life and that's pretty much as perfect as it may get. I also love how it costs 5 unupped: unless you go rainbow, you have to pay more than a Sanctuary. Perfect.
1. Shard of gratitude heals 3 (5 if :life mark) both for upped and unupped(cost 5)
2. Shard of Divinity adds 16 (24 if :light mark) both for upped and unupped(cost 5)
3. Shard of Patience non :water creatures gain +1/+0
4. Shard of sacrifice HP cost increased to 40/32 if upped
5. Shard of readiness lets :time creatures use their skill immediately and twice (instead of adrenaline)
5. Explosion cost increased to 3/2
6. Ash stats decreased to 0/5
7. Shroedinger cat skill cost reduced to 1 :entropy
8. Immolation :fire gain reduced to 6(8upped)
9. Quanta pool capped at 50 quanta per element
Please test it, have fun, and give me some feedback.
I am uploading a new beta version with several new things to try, mainly about balance:Not a fan of Fractal Growing Sparks? :D
1. Shard of gratitude heals 3 (5 if :life mark) both for upped and unupped(cost 5)
2. Shard of Divinity adds 16 (24 if :light mark) both for upped and unupped(cost 5)
3. Shard of Patience non :water creatures gain +1/+0
4. Shard of sacrifice HP cost increased to 40/32 if upped
5. Shard of readiness lets :time creatures use their skill immediately and twice (instead of adrenaline)
6. Explosion cost increased to 3/2The problem with instant quanta generation isn't the amount, it's the fact that it's instant. Rainbows and immorushes will always have a massive turn 1 advantage unless their quanta generation happens at end of turn like the rest of us. Hooray for fire nerfs, though, overall. Beta trainer can't tell us much, though, we'll need to see its effect on PVP and Arena.
7. Ash stats decreased to 0/5
9. Immolation :fire gain reduced to 6(8upped)
10. Quanta pool capped at 50 quanta per elementWhat's this for? An indirect nerf to decks that fractal big, expensive creatures?
The game seems to get more and more fast-paced..AKA "stall gameplay is being removed as an option"? So that's what the cap of 50 is for!
Though I love the currrent changes (Fire, Flooding, SoaP), my concern with the quanta cap is mainly with Ice Bolt, that there is no guaranteed freeze anymore. Its damage now peaks at the maximum of 12 with the freeze chance of 90%(?) at 50 :water, and while it is still a useful spell this way, it has been rather weakened. Same goes for Drain Life with a 12 HP drain, but both Darkness and Fire has their means for quanta 'accelerating'.Bolts cap at 12/18 now. With 10 more quanta in the quanta cap, they will deal 14/21, with 6 Fire Bolts dealing 105 damages and Ice Bolt having a guaranteed freeze. Stone Skin would then cap at 58 hp (calculated after quanta subtraction), meaning 6 stoneskins will net you 448 hps at BEST.
Just noting, yet I'll test it more and in other settings, but it seems that the classic Water/Light stall is almost completely destroyed this way - can't decide if that's a good thing or not.
The game seems to get more and more fast-paced..
I hate this patch more and more as time passes by.Sogs nerf ruins both my fg grinders,fire nerf ruins so many pvp (upped and unupped decks like immophoenix),explosion is no longer splashable in nova-war decks.Man, don't be rude...
Lovely,
How about increasing graboid cost to 5,dim shield to 10,remove draw from sundial,increase poison to 3,half the damage of catapult,decrease sanctuary to 2 healing,make animate weapon cost air quanta,increase hourglass to 6 and generally remove every fun thing that exists in this game and call it balance fix?
and generally remove every fun thing that exists in this game and call it balance fix?no one likes playing against a firestall or immo rush, and explosion, can you say, divine glory nerf :)
I hate this patch more and more as time passes by.Sogs nerf ruins both my fg grinders,fire nerf ruins so many pvp (upped and unupped decks like immophoenix),explosion is no longer splashable in nova-war decks.Well, the best FG grinders don't really use many SoGs and surely aren't dependant on it. Also, it's quite possible that SoSacrifice will revolutionize FG grinding altogether. Also, SoG won't now be splashed into upped PvP decks and Arena decks to grant massive healing to most stalls and even to some rushes.
Lovely,
How about increasing graboid cost to 5,dim shield to 10,remove draw from sundial,increase poison to 3,half the damage of catapult,decrease sanctuary to 2 healing,make animate weapon cost air quanta,increase hourglass to 6 and generally remove every fun thing that exists in this game and call it balance fix?
Well, the best FG grinders don't really use many SoGs and surely aren't dependant on it.First, let me say that on this list (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,25609.msg349339#msg349339) of the top 10 FG grinders, 7 use SoG, I would say 4 of those 7 are dependent upon them, the exception being the 3 RoL/Hope variants, which probably just function differently without it. I agree the new patch provides several new deck ideas and options we are yet to see.
First, let me say that on this list (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,25609.msg349339#msg349339) of the top 10 FG grinders, 7 use SoG, I would say 4 of those 7 are dependent upon them, the exception being the 3 RoL/Hope variants, which probably just function differently without it.Fast Draw Ghostal doesn't need SoGs, they only really help with EMs.
First, let me say that on this list (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,25609.msg349339#msg349339) of the top 10 FG grinders, 7 use SoG, I would say 4 of those 7 are dependent upon them, the exception being the 3 RoL/Hope variants, which probably just function differently without it. I agree the new patch provides several new deck ideas and options we are yet to see.Well, I can see some winrates being reduced by this (especially vs Poison), but Voodoo, MonoAether, RoL Hope, Ghostal and Liquid Antimatter are definitely going to still be strong after the SoG nerf. Also, we'll probably see a SoSac poisondial stall soon on the top of that list. :/
Now, let me shift my focus entirely to PvP, as this is certainly where the meta and balancing matters most. I want to bring up some "bigger picture" meta points that others have not yet brought into focus. *agreed*I don't think so. Rainbow decks will be less strong, but you can expect to see them in War still thanks to the 3 upgrades (if you can run a deflag or two, you can run a nerfed Explosion or two). Unupped PvP (BL, tournaments) will be affected, though without War restriction you can play some Quantum Pillars to round up the quanta balance, and a 3-cost Deflagration is going to be playable at the very least. Upped rainbows won't even notice this (they will at worse convert their Lava Golem into another strong creature from another element, no problem here).
The deflag nerf is needed. However, this is also an indirect nerf to pvp rainbows, especially unupped. What this means is that discord becomes stronger as people are more reliant upon monos and duos. EQ also receives a buff, but I find that generally EQ is fairly balanced and can be worked around through quanta splits and intelligent playing. All perms receive a soft buff via the rainbow nerf. I believe among the most significant of these is Dim Shield. One nice effect however, would be an indirect indirect buff to gravity and momentum. In conclusion, I believe discord needs a nerf as a result of this patch.
Quanta cap at 50: Goodbye most popular methods to stalling. Except, I don't feel this actually does much to nerf firestall. It will still be annoying as hell in arena, and it will still be annoying as hell in PvP. It will simply be played as a troll deck now, with the possibility of killing through fahr. It will still be strong. Other bolt based decks will not. Diss shield is pretty much unaffected. Stone skin will not be "strong". Stoneskin was pretty poor to start with, as you had to commit huge amounts of quanta to using it before. It was made viable by sanc/miracle or poison.It doesn't nerf firestall. Like, at all. A normal Firestall will still be very strong against a majority of decks. However, if you notice, it does introduce a whole new category of counters to Firestall: decks with massive healing, some PC, and hp-increasing cards. Like Shard of Divinity. You can no longer commit yourself to only Bolts and Fahrenheit for offense, because if you do, then your damage cap is not so high, and even moderate constant healing will outstall you, eventually. I can see a lot more Stall Faster-like decks (phoenixes coupled with high quanta flow, Fahrenheit and Bolts is a powerful all-around deck) but Stall Faster is not as strong as Firestall, in general, and is more prone to abuses. Heck, The Immortal is going to be considered a hard-counter to firestall...
Which leads me to my final point. How the meta will shift as a result to the quanta cap. The major mechanic seen in "stalls" will now undoubtedly be poison (if you want to call poison a stall). The nice thing about having a few effective stalls in the meta is that they are nice curveballs that prevent everyone from packing a ton of CC and shields. These are already effective pvp strategies before removing powerful stalls. I suppose purify receives an indirect buff as well.I don't quite understand what you consider a stall, then, if you exclude "decks with a lot of shields and CC"...
ahh, was hoping for another grav card... x]*leaves*You can not leave Napalm: Elements needs you; besides, if you leave you are going to miss the creation of the next fire card and that is the first item in my "to do" list after I am done with the shards.
It doesn't nerf firestall. Like, at all. A normal Firestall will still be very strong against a majority of decks. However, if you notice, it does introduce a whole new category of counters to Firestall: decks with massive healing, some PC, and hp-increasing cards. Like Shard of Divinity. You can no longer commit yourself to only Bolts and Fahrenheit for offense, because if you do, then your damage cap is not so high, and even moderate constant healing will outstall you, eventually. I can see a lot more Stall Faster-like decks (phoenixes coupled with high quanta flow, Fahrenheit and Bolts is a powerful all-around deck) but Stall Faster is not as strong as Firestall, in general, and is more prone to abuses. Heck, The Immortal is going to be considered a hard-counter to firestall...Yep. I feel like a reduction in fire bolt's damage may have been a better short term solution, but as zanz mentioned, it sounds like there's a bigger long term plan that needs a cap.
I agree a rework of Stone Skin is needed. See my previous posts.
I don't quite understand what you consider a stall, then, if you exclude "decks with a lot of shields and CC"...Meh. I'd call those a form of 'control' decks, but everyone has their own definitions.
If for someone nerfing StoneSkin is a problem (for me it is still powerful card) we can easily add 50% more HP when Mark is Earth. Then SS still will be with 75HP.How long does it take you to accumulate 50 :earth quanta vs. 2 :life quanta? :)
But I don't think that 50HP is too low. This card cost only 1 :earth and can give half HP status. Heal cost 2 :life and give max 20. So SS is still powerful.
I hope so. We got Mindgate fairly recently, but we're still at 15 cards along with Fire (the lowest amount of cards in any element).A new Fire card? I suppose they do have few cards compared to other elements ... will Aether be next?*leaves*You can not leave Napalm: Elements needs you; besides, if you leave you are going to miss the creation of the next fire card and that is the first item in my "to do" list after I am done with the shards.
I think it would be a little fun, if whatever mark you have, it would increase your quanta pool by 10 or something. Sure, that would mean Fire gets more quanta to play with, but it would also be a bit fun for the creativity side of things, especially for new cards in the future.This is indeed a good idea. I would do a 40 (non-mark) + 50 (mark) cap. This would add some more strategy to the fire stall construct. Having a life mark (for SoG) or a light mark (for sanctuary) would lower the maximal strength of Fahrenheit.
If the cap really has to stay, I agree with Snoweb's suggestion (maybe even 50 + 50) - it gives more strength to mono-bolt stalls and allows the player to use off-element boltstalls effectively without feeling really limited by this new cap with the right cards. It's also another variable that can used by Card Designers in their Ideas :) .I think it would be a little fun, if whatever mark you have, it would increase your quanta pool by 10 or something. Sure, that would mean Fire gets more quanta to play with, but it would also be a bit fun for the creativity side of things, especially for new cards in the future.This is indeed a good idea. I would do a 40 (non-mark) + 50 (mark) cap. This would add some more strategy to the fire stall construct. Having a life mark (for SoG) or a light mark (for sanctuary) would lower the maximal strength of Fahrenheit.
You should ask how long does it take to accumulate 10 :earth, because SS cost 2x less than heal. All HP which is over 10-15 is a big bonus for this card in comparing with heal.If for someone nerfing StoneSkin is a problem (for me it is still powerful card) we can easily add 50% more HP when Mark is Earth. Then SS still will be with 75HP.How long does it take you to accumulate 50 :earth quanta vs. 2 :life quanta? :)
But I don't think that 50HP is too low. This card cost only 1 :earth and can give half HP status. Heal cost 2 :life and give max 20. So SS is still powerful.
:aether could be the shard that increases quanta cap. Shard of Energy maybe?A generic Other card would probably suit it better. Some player would also prefer if Aether got an additional thematic theme beyond the Stars, Energy and Psionics theme
kinda contradict yourself there when you said "im glad the caps are lower!" and then "we can use mark cards to increase the cap!"Not at all. I said I like there BEING a cap. Big difference.
kinda contradict yourself there when you said "im glad the caps are lower!" and then "we can use mark cards to increase the cap!"I don't think the suggestion had anything to do with marks the ultra-rares, but rather the free mark everybody picks for their deck. Having mark cards add to that is a mistake without more ways to obtain mark cards, and even then, I think it would be a mistake because I'm fairly sure mark cards weren't intended to provide significant advantages; right now, their only real use is immunity to being targeted if they are stacking with your deck mark, and they don't even do that upgraded.
it would only be practical if 1) more people had mark cards - otherwise a few people would be able to increase their caps while the majority could not.
and 2) there were a way to control marks the way you control towers- otherwise people would plop down marks instead of towers to avoid PC.
i do like the idea of your mark impacting how much of each qaunta you have have for each element, such as 50,40,40,40,40, ... 40
ah, i see, i misread.kinda contradict yourself there when you said "im glad the caps are lower!" and then "we can use mark cards to increase the cap!"Not at all. I said I like there BEING a cap. Big difference.
Wow. 1.29 is going to be on a whole new level of Epic. As for the quanta cap. I like it. It's a good idea, however, I hope that if it gets put into effect, the cap is 75, not 50 or 100. 75 seems like a good number and keeps Stone Skin viable.Pretty much what I wanted to say
No, just no, zanz, if you really want to nerf fire bolt nerf fire bolt, firestall is annoying because of insane amount of CC.You just nerfed fractal and stone skin.Again, I don't agree with this sentiment. Stone Skin needs to be redesigned to implement a quanta cap at 50, but it's not impossible (see my previous suggestions). As for fractal, it's hardly a problem at all. If you get 50 quanta of your fractalled element, you'll get the rest in a couple more turns. Fractal dragons isn't really viable anyway, so I don't think this is a problem.
is the new cards available in the bazaar?No, you have to win the shards the same way you win other rares, either by rare spins for beating the arena enough times in a row, or by getting them from arena decks or pvp or FGs. (though FGs don't currently have any shards in their decks) You will be able to get the cards that have been changed from the bazaar, like Schrodinger's Cat or Immolation or Deflagration, just as you always have been able to.
Fractal dragons isn't really viable anyway, so I don't think this is a problem.I wish that was true so it wouldn't hit us so badly, but it's not. Fractal Bone Dragons in BoneBolt was one of the most versatile decks in War 3, and one of the best counters to both rushes and stalls combined (which helped a lot against Fire, ironically). With this cap, it will have a very hard time OTK'ing, which is disastrous for the deck type in general (includes all types of Aether/Light stalls).
Well, I think there is something to be said about this though. I agree that OTKing with bonebolt won't be possible anymore, but if you play 5 Bone Dragons in one go, followed by another one next turn, you're quite possibly 2TKing and don't miss THAT much. In fact, since at BEST you're getting 8 dragons from a Fractal, you're missing out on 3 of them, without considering those lost to dead cards in hand (other fractals, for instance) or similar. I don't think it's quite that drastic a nerf, really. However, I believe you have more experience than me in the matter. Question is, are the benefits of having a quanta cap more than its problems?Fractal dragons isn't really viable anyway, so I don't think this is a problem.I wish that was true so it wouldn't hit us so badly, but it's not. Fractal Bone Dragons in BoneBolt was one of the most versatile decks in War 3, and one of the best counters to both rushes and stalls combined (which helped a lot against Fire, ironically). With this cap, it will have a very hard time OTK'ing, which is disastrous for the deck type in general (includes all types of Aether/Light stalls).
I'm glad most Fractal decks don't need 50 quanta to work, but the cap has the potential to hurt them all since you can easily include a higher cost creature to Fractal in any Fractal deck to give it more stall-busting potential. This is extremely helpful in environments like War where having decks that can adapt is a huge advantage.
It would be smoother to nerf Fire Bolt directly, as the current cap reduces the amount of viable strategies in the game, making it less multi-layered and more RPS. If the intention was to nerf all pump spells, it would even then be easier to nerf them separately. However, if we get cards that can raise the quanta cap, the amount of strategies would increase right back again. I would prefer if it happened simultaneously as the cap, I will admit.
Yes, one application of Fractal Dragons decks still work, and that is 2TK. Unfortunately, against two RoF's and Miracle, that's not possible. The OTK potential is ruined, which can hurt any Fractal deck, but they're still strong. So no, it's not that drastic.Well, I think there is something to be said about this though. I agree that OTKing with bonebolt won't be possible anymore, but if you play 5 Bone Dragons in one go, followed by another one next turn, you're quite possibly 2TKing and don't miss THAT much. In fact, since at BEST you're getting 8 dragons from a Fractal, you're missing out on 3 of them, without considering those lost to dead cards in hand (other fractals, for instance) or similar. I don't think it's quite that drastic a nerf, really. However, I believe you have more experience than me in the matter. Question is, are the benefits of having a quanta cap more than its problems?Fractal dragons isn't really viable anyway, so I don't think this is a problem.I wish that was true so it wouldn't hit us so badly, but it's not. Fractal Bone Dragons in BoneBolt was one of the most versatile decks in War 3, and one of the best counters to both rushes and stalls combined (which helped a lot against Fire, ironically). With this cap, it will have a very hard time OTK'ing, which is disastrous for the deck type in general (includes all types of Aether/Light stalls).
I'm glad most Fractal decks don't need 50 quanta to work, but the cap has the potential to hurt them all since you can easily include a higher cost creature to Fractal in any Fractal deck to give it more stall-busting potential. This is extremely helpful in environments like War where having decks that can adapt is a huge advantage.
It would be smoother to nerf Fire Bolt directly, as the current cap reduces the amount of viable strategies in the game, making it less multi-layered and more RPS. If the intention was to nerf all pump spells, it would even then be easier to nerf them separately. However, if we get cards that can raise the quanta cap, the amount of strategies would increase right back again. I would prefer if it happened simultaneously as the cap, I will admit.
Cons: Firestall isn't really nerfed (although new counters to it are now possible). Ice Bolt OTK is no longer possible, as is Drain Life OTK (but :darkness gets Shard of Void). Stone Skin doesn't work well, but can be changed to work better with the cap. Dissipation Shield is practically untouched. Fractal Dragon decks are less effective.
Pros: we have a new toy to play with in card creation. Firestall got slightly nerfed.
EDIT: I should note that I, for one, like the quanta cap. But I'm starting to think people complaining have a reason to. :/
[11:56:15] majofa: so, if zanz can cap stone skin, why can't he cap fire bolt and fahrenheit?I know this point have been raised before but with search disabled I have no idea who made it first. I know the suggestion have been around for more than a year though. Dont know why it have not caught on.
3. DECAY? He's already one of the weakest gods :(Divine Glory too, with such unexpected fire production now having to wait 2 turn for an explosion will be much easier i think
so with the immonerf and quanta cap, the two most newbie friendly grind decks are pretty severely weakened. shame, i only recently managed to grind up enough to buy RoL/Hope and now it'll barely work anymore.I may be foolish but how is RoL/Hope harmed? Sure you can only play 4|3 of the dragons per turn but is that a problem?
ok barely work is probably too harsh, but it is weakened quite a bit.
Yes, especially against Miracle using Fake Gods since they Miracle at ~50hp, 3 Light Dragons would only produce 39 and therefore you just have to spam and hope for the best.so with the immonerf and quanta cap, the two most newbie friendly grind decks are pretty severely weakened. shame, i only recently managed to grind up enough to buy RoL/Hope and now it'll barely work anymore.I may be foolish but how is RoL/Hope harmed? Sure you can only play 4|3 of the dragons per turn but is that a problem?
ok barely work is probably too harsh, but it is weakened quite a bit.
make firebolt do 1 less damage per 10 quanta? that seems to be a better option to me..Then it will be weaker than Ice Lance.
that would be cool to reduce it to 2HP/10 quanta and to give it a "burn" side effect that kinda acts like poisoning of a creaturemake firebolt do 1 less damage per 10 quanta? that seems to be a better option to me..Then it will be weaker than Ice Lance.
Use SoP in rol/hope decks, just adding 2 and using them when you have a full field is +46 dmg. See what I did just there, I came up with a solution to a problem. Now someone try firestall.but it ruins the surprise element of fractal essentially getting around miracle. with the turn delay, there is no surprise allowing miracle to be used. not fixed
not just that. before, you could save up quanta for a long time, say you have 2 fractals in hand and are waiting for your first dragon, you build up ~150 quanta and get the dragon, play it, fractar, play them all. next turn, fractal again and get a few more. now you will at best be able to play 4 dragons after a fractal, no matter how long you have been waiting to draw one. you play the four, and then have to wait another turn (or maybe even 2) just to play 1 more.Yes, especially against Miracle using Fake Gods since they Miracle at ~50hp, 3 Light Dragons would only produce 39 and therefore you just have to spam and hope for the best.so with the immonerf and quanta cap, the two most newbie friendly grind decks are pretty severely weakened. shame, i only recently managed to grind up enough to buy RoL/Hope and now it'll barely work anymore.I may be foolish but how is RoL/Hope harmed? Sure you can only play 4|3 of the dragons per turn but is that a problem?
ok barely work is probably too harsh, but it is weakened quite a bit.make firebolt do 1 less damage per 10 quanta? that seems to be a better option to me..Then it will be weaker than Ice Lance.
I hate this patch more and more as time passes by.Sogs nerf ruins both my fg grinders,fire nerf ruins so many pvp (upped and unupped decks like immophoenix),explosion is no longer splashable in nova-war decks.So, you're sugesting an immaterial no-counter phase shields?
Lovely,
How about increasing graboid cost to 5,dim shield to 10,remove draw from sundial,increase poison to 3,half the damage of catapult,decrease sanctuary to 2 healing,make animate weapon cost air quanta,increase hourglass to 6 and generally remove every fun thing that exists in this game and call it balance fix?
And it will be problem? Fire as element is too powerful. It has got the best PC, the best CC, growthing creatures etc.make firebolt do 1 less damage per 10 quanta? that seems to be a better option to me..Then it will be weaker than Ice Lance.
Interest ideas to the fact that firebolt has been suggested at 2 damage per 10 quanta interests me...Dejadrenavus is consistent if you don't use momentum? If not, then shields are going to be it's major problem. If yes, then people will actually start playing Thunderstorm for fast mass CC :3 it is funny.
For those that argue that this makes it weaker than water/dark bolts they also don't attack nearly as fast as whole when considering mono elements nor do they feature so much hard creature control. This could clearly add to the solution of some firestall variants having soooo much CC.
I still think a diminishing returns would effect the game better than a quanta cap, but a testing I am going.
To those that think 4 ttw decks need to be slowed down (aka immo nerf) dejadrena vu is quite consistent with 4~5 turn wins with SoR in it's current form. Immo decks clearly had a much worse fail to launch %.
Also I would like to suggest perhaps testing some of the changes separate from one another to see how each exactly effects deck building and how it helps/hurts in it's own right. So many at a time can detract from findings on each individual change.
I hate this patch more and more as time passes by.Sogs nerf ruins both my fg grinders,fire nerf ruins so many pvp (upped and unupped decks like immophoenix),explosion is no longer splashable in nova-war decks.FG grinding hardly suffers. The best FG grinders work fine without SoGs.
Lovely,
How about increasing graboid cost to 5,dim shield to 10,remove draw from sundial,increase poison to 3,half the damage of catapult,decrease sanctuary to 2 healing,make animate weapon cost air quanta,increase hourglass to 6 and generally remove every fun thing that exists in this game and call it balance fix?
I really, really like these changes. Fire was too imbalanced. SoP was strong and I like how SoR is unique to Adrenaline.the most accessible one (RoL/Hope) doesnt work fine with a 50 quanta cap though. also, the oracle FG thread relies on firebolt sudden killer for a few of the FGs, and that will no longer work.I hate this patch more and more as time passes by.Sogs nerf ruins both my fg grinders,fire nerf ruins so many pvp (upped and unupped decks like immophoenix),explosion is no longer splashable in nova-war decks.FG grinding hardly suffers. The best FG grinders work fine without SoGs.
Lovely,
How about increasing graboid cost to 5,dim shield to 10,remove draw from sundial,increase poison to 3,half the damage of catapult,decrease sanctuary to 2 healing,make animate weapon cost air quanta,increase hourglass to 6 and generally remove every fun thing that exists in this game and call it balance fix?
its been said before, stone skin can be changed to account for the change in quanta cap.unless you cant afford upgrades yet.
on another note, minor phoenix immo rush still works great, it just doesnt super power firebolts so much. take the lava destroyers and be happy with it.
TEST, THEN COMPLAIN, not the other way around.QFT. That said, without any testing done on my part, I'm for all of these changes except the quanta cap. My kneejerk uninformed reaction is that it should be 100.
yeah, thats a problem with the game as a whole, so you can say that about just about every deck that isnt labeled "unupped". everyone else has put the time in, so basically you have to too.its been said before, stone skin can be changed to account for the change in quanta cap.unless you cant afford upgrades yet.
on another note, minor phoenix immo rush still works great, it just doesnt super power firebolts so much. take the lava destroyers and be happy with it.
yeah but with every other deck you could say "build immorush and grind AI3s until you can afford a semiupped deck. you cant say that anymore.yeah, thats a problem with the game as a whole, so you can say that about just about every deck that isnt labeled "unupped". everyone else has put the time in, so basically you have to too.its been said before, stone skin can be changed to account for the change in quanta cap.unless you cant afford upgrades yet.
on another note, minor phoenix immo rush still works great, it just doesnt super power firebolts so much. take the lava destroyers and be happy with it.
yeah but with every other deck you could say "build immorush and grind AI3s until you can afford a semiupped deck. you cant say that anymore.I believe immorush would still work, only in different forms. And other rushes will appear, thanks to new cards.
Youre also forgetting the VERY LARGE CHANGE that helps newbies. Aka, shards being usable unupped. That more than makes up for the immorush not being as powerful.yeah but with every other deck you could say "build immorush and grind AI3s until you can afford a semiupped deck. you cant say that anymore.yeah, thats a problem with the game as a whole, so you can say that about just about every deck that isnt labeled "unupped". everyone else has put the time in, so basically you have to too.its been said before, stone skin can be changed to account for the change in quanta cap.unless you cant afford upgrades yet.
on another note, minor phoenix immo rush still works great, it just doesnt super power firebolts so much. take the lava destroyers and be happy with it.
Yeah. For newbs, when they get a shard, they dont have to play that long to get the upgrade that helps a bit, either way, upped or not, it helps everyone.Youre also forgetting the VERY LARGE CHANGE that helps newbies. Aka, shards being usable unupped. That more than makes up for the immorush not being as powerful.yeah but with every other deck you could say "build immorush and grind AI3s until you can afford a semiupped deck. you cant say that anymore.yeah, thats a problem with the game as a whole, so you can say that about just about every deck that isnt labeled "unupped". everyone else has put the time in, so basically you have to too.its been said before, stone skin can be changed to account for the change in quanta cap.unless you cant afford upgrades yet.
on another note, minor phoenix immo rush still works great, it just doesnt super power firebolts so much. take the lava destroyers and be happy with it.
Youre also forgetting the VERY LARGE CHANGE that helps newbies. Aka, shards being usable unupped. That more than makes up for the immorush not being as powerful.yeah but with every other deck you could say "build immorush and grind AI3s until you can afford a semiupped deck. you cant say that anymore.yeah, thats a problem with the game as a whole, so you can say that about just about every deck that isnt labeled "unupped". everyone else has put the time in, so basically you have to too.its been said before, stone skin can be changed to account for the change in quanta cap.unless you cant afford upgrades yet.
on another note, minor phoenix immo rush still works great, it just doesnt super power firebolts so much. take the lava destroyers and be happy with it.
Um that's still more than possible. In fact, there's a second deck here (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,17173.0.html) that while it is more vulnerable, still serves as an adequate substitute for Grabbix against AI3.i grinded with grab/shrieker rush, you can too.destroyer yes, golemn? not so much.
also, i just played with a pillarless unupped immo photon destroyer deck, it still works against ai 3.
3. DECAY? He's already one of the weakest gods :(False gods don't play by our rules!
"destroyer yes, golemn? not so much."yeah thats why i deleted it from my post within a minute, but people had already managed to reply. ill stick by my point that RoL/Hope is crippled though.
yes, golem. my apologies for using the wrong name despite having stated unupped. ::)
A decrease in grinding deck strength is an extremely small cost for a better metagame. And have you all forgotten that Arena was released the update before this? Arena was extremely helpful to grinding, especially with new rares coming out. It makes sense that grinding can be a little bit harder this update after Arena made grinding easier.I agree with the first point here, and to a degree with the second. The Arena definitely made score easier to grind, but I think rares were easier to get from all the t50 farms that used to be posted. You can get upped rares from the arena, so that might be what rootranger meant here.
which do you prefer?Is this even a question?
Elements 1.28 (this one)
Elements 1.29 (in beta)
A decrease in grinding deck strength is an extremely small cost for a better metagame. And have you all forgotten that Arena was released the update before this? Arena was extremely helpful to grinding, especially with new rares coming out. It makes sense that grinding can be a little bit harder this update after Arena made grinding easier.i dont know, considering how much grinding one has to do before they can even start worrying about the metagame. arena is only helpful for grinding if you can win consistently, even bronze decks can prove too tough for a newbie, especially if they find the decks they have been using against AIs arent remotely effective, and they cant afford to buy more cards.
Use SoP in rol/hope decks, just adding 2 and using them when you have a full field is +46 dmg. See what I did just there, I came up with a solution to a problem. Now someone try firestall.My emphasis.
Concerns:Increase the cost of both scorpions by 1 might be sufficient. (based on the cost relation between the 3 scorpions prior to SoP)With the introduction of SoP, the power of Deathstalker and
especially Dune Scorpion need to be revisited, though I can't think of a solution at this moment. I believe this absolutely needs to be addressed.[/list]
I don't think increasing their cost is a good idea. Without SoaP, they are still as mediocre-good as they were, mainly because of their '2 for 1' nature. SoaP is good because you need only one buff card to buff several scorpions at once - however, you are losing a turn with it. And the chance of not drawing the buff but quanta/scorps only is still there as well.Concerns:Increase the cost of both scorpions by 1-2 might be sufficient. (based on the cost relation between the 3 scorpions prior to SoP)With the introduction of SoP, the power of Deathstalker and
especially Dune Scorpion need to be revisited, though I can't think of a solution at this moment. I believe this absolutely needs to be addressed.[/list]
Do not agree. If you play with the card a bit, you know that SoaP, while being mono, doesn't really have the same punch as Unstoppable, nor Chaos Power and is not even as good as Blessing. You are paying a whole turn of CC vulnerability for a mono buff. It's balanced.Concerns:Increase the cost of both scorpions by 1-2 might be sufficient. (based on the cost relation between the 3 scorpions prior to SoP)With the introduction of SoP, the power of Deathstalker and
especially Dune Scorpion need to be revisited, though I can't think of a solution at this moment. I believe this absolutely needs to be addressed.[/list]
Why is Immolation nerfed? It's fine as it is. o_0No it isnt. It accelerates fire by such a huge margin that noone can compete. Cremation is fine at 8 or 9 since its upped.
Would it be better if the 'Band' was on the right side of the title instead of the left?^This
When will the new patch be released?Probably sometime around the future. I could be wrong. I've been wrong before.
This update seems actually good and I really hope this will be released soon. (I'm just a little doubtful about the quanta cap..)Well, now that Shards have been tested and (mostly) approved (some doubts on Shard of Sacrifice still, but I believe what others have said and it seems likely to be avoidable. Still scary concept, but it may be overreacting on my part) I think we are ready to see the other ones, so AFTER that and AFTER they have been tested, there will be the release. I think.
I'm not really a fan of SoSacrifice, but maybe i'm wrong, and i've got not really much time to test it.This update seems actually good and I really hope this will be released soon. (I'm just a little doubtful about the quanta cap..)Well, now that Shards have been tested and (mostly) approved (some doubts on Shard of Sacrifice still, but I believe what others have said and it seems likely to be avoidable. Still scary concept, but it may be overreacting on my part) I think we are ready to see the other ones, so AFTER that and AFTER they have been tested, there will be the release. I think.
We are still missing out on the shards for :aether, :air, :earth, :fire and :gravity.
:aether is most likely going to be the magical damage zapper, although I'm not a fan of the concept (we already have one "damaging" shard, plus it'd be cool if it did something divergent).
The rest are more of a mystery. Personally, I think Gravity should get something that increases its stall capacity. A better shield would be perfect, but even a stall Shard would be great...
Those shards are still missing, but it's never been stated that all the shards will happen in one update. I actually sort of doubt they will. It would be a better idea to do maybe half of the shards in this update, then the other half in the next update.This update seems actually good and I really hope this will be released soon. (I'm just a little doubtful about the quanta cap..)Well, now that Shards have been tested and (mostly) approved (some doubts on Shard of Sacrifice still, but I believe what others have said and it seems likely to be avoidable. Still scary concept, but it may be overreacting on my part) I think we are ready to see the other ones, so AFTER that and AFTER they have been tested, there will be the release. I think.
We are still missing out on the shards for :aether, :air, :earth, :fire and :gravity.
:aether is most likely going to be the magical damage zapper, although I'm not a fan of the concept (we already have one "damaging" shard, plus it'd be cool if it did something divergent).
The rest are more of a mystery. Personally, I think Gravity should get something that increases its stall capacity. A better shield would be perfect, but even a stall Shard would be great...
good point, arena gives you coin while youre sleeping if you set up a halfway decent deck.Most recent deck:
I trust your estimate. I underestimated the increased cost of the 1 turn delay for scorpionsDo not agree. If you play with the card a bit, you know that SoaP, while being mono, doesn't really have the same punch as Unstoppable, nor Chaos Power and is not even as good as Blessing. You are paying a whole turn of CC vulnerability for a mono buff. It's balanced.Concerns:Increase the cost of both scorpions by 1-2 might be sufficient. (based on the cost relation between the 3 scorpions prior to SoP)With the introduction of SoP, the power of Deathstalker and
especially Dune Scorpion need to be revisited, though I can't think of a solution at this moment. I believe this absolutely needs to be addressed.[/list]
that is disturbs the balance of the gameExact aim.
I've said this already, but you only need one attack from one dune scorpion. after that they act like forest scorpions. I don't see how SoP makes them overpowered.Um, no. They may act like a Forest Scorpion afterwards, but the match itself has been changed. Can a forest scorpion continue increasing poison on the opponent after it has been killed or controlled?
Actually one more point. To take advantage of SoP you'll need to have several scorpions on the field before playing the shard. I would say at least three (otherwise you may as well have a couple of momentums).Ok, it's obvious you aren't giving this the thought it deserves. You don't need several: after the first poison, the rest act like Forest Scorpions, just as you said earlier. The first attack is the key. The decks I have played in Beta, I have gotten a buffed Dune scorpion out on the first or second turn almost every time. Waiting is not a smart thing to do. Later in the match, however, you can then further buff them, and buff multiple creatures.
That being said, this is just from what I can tell. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to test decks. Go ahead and test such a deck and show that it is overpowered.As you can see, I have been. Good to know that you're willing to critique my research, command me to test, but not willing to do any of it yourself.
People make too big a deal about DS's. An adrenalined forest scorpion, if left alone will do 2 psn a turn. It isnt very often, unless facing another time deck, that you will be playing more than 1-2 cards a turn.Unless you have the majority of your opening draw in your hand, which these changes increase the likelihood of. Edit: Also, you are ignoring the synergy with Eternity, which as I mentioned earlier is yet another mono-deck option.
Therefor a Forest Scorpion will often times do better, and are easier to mass produce. SoPs would help them a great deal as well.Another example of my concern about the impact that a generic quanta mass buff will have on the current card designs, but not as stark or imbalanced.
Your argument is illogical. Everthing you just said can be applied to momentum, with better and more consistent results. If fact, you're basically proving my point, that dune scorpion already works with existing cards and that SoP brings nothing new, and thus, does not overpower dune scorpion.I've said this already, but you only need one attack from one dune scorpion. after that they act like forest scorpions. I don't see how SoP makes them overpowered.Um, no. They may act like a Forest Scorpion afterwards, but the match itself has been changed. Can a forest scorpion continue increasing poison on the opponent after it has been killed or controlled?
Previously, Time/Death had a few elements that it had to work with to incorporate Dune Scorpions/Deathstalkers. Now, it can use them with any element, including mono, the buff card is cheaper, and can buff multiple targets instead of just 1.QuoteActually one more point. To take advantage of SoP you'll need to have several scorpions on the field before playing the shard. I would say at least three (otherwise you may as well have a couple of momentums).Ok, it's obvious you aren't giving this the thought it deserves. You don't need several: after the first poison, the rest act like Forest Scorpions, just as you said earlier. The first attack is the key. The decks I have played in Beta, I have gotten a buffed Dune scorpion out on the first or second turn almost every time. Waiting is not a smart thing to do. Later in the match, however, you can then further buff them, and buff multiple creatures.QuoteThat being said, this is just from what I can tell. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to test decks. Go ahead and test such a deck and show that it is overpowered.As you can see, I have been. Good to know that you're willing to critique my research, command me to test, but not willing to do any of it yourself.
Your argument is illogical. Everthing you just said can be applied to momentum, with better and more consistent results. If fact, you're basically proving my point, that dune scorpion already works with existing cards and that SoP brings nothing new, and thus, does not overpower dune scorpion.Exactly what he said.
One more update::o
AI learned how to use adrenaline and mitosis on multiple targets
New Darkness backgroundWait ... how has it changed?
I still love you Zanz.I like what our Fire Mistress Napalm suggested. 2 damages with a chance of 3 damages. 33% chance would be acceptable but with a higher quanta cap you get easily in OTK range, even without good luck. Of course, reducing damage still work well because you can't waste bolts as CC that easily, you rely on your Fahrenheit a lot more, and hp increasing cards are still pretty powerful against it.
But now we need a real nerf for Firebolt again.
2 damage every 8 quanta?
3 damage every 12 quanta?
One more update:The background is pretty awesome. First scary background :>
Fixed a few bugs with SoR
New Darkness background
Cap increased to 75 for more testing
AI learned how to use adrenaline and mitosis on multiple targets
yikes, wtf? did you play a SoSe and got another SoSe?One more update:The background is pretty awesome. First scary background :>
Fixed a few bugs with SoR
New Darkness background
Cap increased to 75 for more testing
AI learned how to use adrenaline and mitosis on multiple targets
The AI improvement is awesome. I've missed out on a few Arena decks since AI fails so much with Adren. Could you tweak Fractal priority next? It's the strongest card in the entire game and Fractal decks are an archetype of its own, but I can't make reliable decks with it for the AI.
That said, more bugs with SoSe:
(http://i.imgur.com/JqUxG.jpg)
For some reason, they would take the cost of the previous card in hand. Upon using them, they simply vanish. Before casting anything, they have an undefined cost and a small "un" next to the card where the cost would be.
Like so:
(http://i.imgur.com/i7f7g.jpg)
Your SoSe is bugged. No bands.lulz, mine. Yes, my SoSebow deck code didn't put the upgraded SoSe's into my deck, meaning the card code is bugged.
Edit: Well, looks like upgraded SoSe is bugged. 6s1 instead of 6s0.
yikes, wtf? did you play a SoSe and got another SoSe?Um, no.
New Darkness backgroundI changed my mind. Thanks, Zanz.
Cap increased to 75 for more testing
Regarding new colors.
Entropy got lighter and lost edge. If this is bad or not depends on your viewpoint on entropy. Clashes horribly with the art of pillars and pendulums but instead meshes very well if not better to several of the others card. Good improvement overall.
Death is now metallic instead of bone/ivory. No clash in colors. Just change no improvement.
Earth got earthy, real perfect coloration and its no longer possible to mistake time and earth cards. Instead you mistake earth and gravity but to a lesser degree than how much you switched earth and time. Too bad the light coloration of all earth cards clashes with the border except Steel Golem to varying degrees, will be fixed with new specific card art as time passes. Medium-Good improvement.
Life got poison green which shines artificial and dead. The vibrant and alive leaf pattern removed. The only bad change and I mean BAD.
Darkness became gray and lost most of its menace and edge. Works I guess. The color clashes with a few cards and blends with a few. Just change and no improvement.
One more update:With this the change to darkness card borders from bleak gray into consuming darkness the new assessment of darkness is "Dangerous and menacing" superb coloring at par with the earth change.
Fixed a few bugs with SoR
New Darkness background
Cap increased to 75 for more testing
AI learned how to use adrenaline and mitosis on multiple targets
With this the change to darkness card borders from bleak gray into consuming darkness the new assessment of darkness is "Dangerous and menacing" superb coloring at par with the earth change.Couldn't agree with you more.
Earth is superb (upped earth and upped gravity is too close though)
Darkness is superb
Entropy is good
Death is neither good nor bad
Life is dead, bad bad bad bad bad
I've tried so many snova variations of dune and death scorps, I just gave up on the idea.~sigh~Quote from: RRQJYour argument is illogical. Everthing you just said can be applied to momentum, with better and more consistent results. If fact, you're basically proving my point, that dune scorpion already works with existing cards and that SoP brings nothing new, and thus, does not overpower dune scorpion.Exactly what he said.
Not only is momentum better, since you only need 1 dune scorp and only need to attack once with it for the effect, you only need a simple buff. Gravity mark and momentum works so well. Plus with eternity to send their creatures back and they replay them to boost the poison further. Dune scorps decks that don't use gravity towers will always have to wait til the 2nd turn to attack. So, with SoPa, they would also have to wait for the 2nd turn, but at least with momentum, you can bypass shields.
Oh, and dunescorp decks don't do that well against other players anyway. It's too slow to get going, unless you play against a fractal deck. Against fgs they are awesome because they draw 2 cards per turn.
@PostThis is another result of a direct comparison that doesn't take into account the metagame. See my response above.
Using your rough deck outline I play tested it against a Momentum variant (-5 SoP, +5 Momentum, Mark of Gravity instead of Time)
SoP + Dune Scorpion inflicts neurotoxin turn 2 for 3 :time + 1 :rainbow (4 towers)
Momentum + Dune Scorpion (using Mark of Gravity) inflicts neurotoxin turn 2 for 3 :time + 1 :gravity (2 towers + 1 :gravity mark)
Momentum Dune Scorpions is more likely to inflict neurotoxin on turn 2 because it requires only 2 towers rather than 4. It does come with side effects (+1hp, ignore shields, -1 :time per turn, effects of Momentum/SoP ing the 2nd scorpion)
Were the new backgrounds linked somewhere in this thread (and found outside of the trainer)? I thought I remembered seeing it but couldn't find it. I just wanted to visualize old vs. new. Also, I am lazy.New backgrounds are in the original post (except for new new Darkness).
I've already said that momentum+dune is faster and more consistent than SoP+dune. And when I say that, I mean gather the appropriate quanta, play the cards, and attack successfully. In fact, in OldTrees' post that you yourself quoted, he says that you're more likely to hit the opponent with a momentum dune than an SoP dune by turn 2. And that's primarily due to the fact that in order to hit the opponent with an SoP dune by turn 2, you need to play all the necessary cards on turn 1 (SoP's 1 turn delay). OldTrees mentioned it, but I'll be more specific: that means you need 4 towers, a dune, and an SoP - 6 cards out of the 7/8 you'll start with. And, you make the risk that the opponent won't lightning/fire bolt/something that does 3 damage.I've tried so many snova variations of dune and death scorps, I just gave up on the idea.~sigh~Quote from: RRQJYour argument is illogical. Everthing you just said can be applied to momentum, with better and more consistent results. If fact, you're basically proving my point, that dune scorpion already works with existing cards and that SoP brings nothing new, and thus, does not overpower dune scorpion.Exactly what he said.
Not only is momentum better, since you only need 1 dune scorp and only need to attack once with it for the effect, you only need a simple buff. Gravity mark and momentum works so well. Plus with eternity to send their creatures back and they replay them to boost the poison further. Dune scorps decks that don't use gravity towers will always have to wait til the 2nd turn to attack. So, with SoPa, they would also have to wait for the 2nd turn, but at least with momentum, you can bypass shields.
Oh, and dunescorp decks don't do that well against other players anyway. It's too slow to get going, unless you play against a fractal deck. Against fgs they are awesome because they draw 2 cards per turn.
Tired of going back and forth between this.
If you want to do a direct comparison between Dune/SoP to Dune/Momentum, of course momentum is better! However, as you are doing this, you are overlooking the tremendous differences during the deckbuilding and quanta accumulation processes. The impact of adding a quanta type during the deck building process is far greater than the casting process that you want to focus on. The consistency with which a Dune/SoP can get out is far greater than any other combination. The shields you keep wanting to introduce are by no means likely that early in the game.
There are plenty of situations in which one will be better than the other. What I'm saying is that the utility of Dune/SoP is now wide open and, when combined with the speed and consistency with which it can be utilized, it creates imbalance. On top of that, this will be the case for many other cards due to it being a generic quanta mass buff card.@PostThis is another result of a direct comparison that doesn't take into account the metagame. See my response above.
Using your rough deck outline I play tested it against a Momentum variant (-5 SoP, +5 Momentum, Mark of Gravity instead of Time)
SoP + Dune Scorpion inflicts neurotoxin turn 2 for 3 :time + 1 :rainbow (4 towers)
Momentum + Dune Scorpion (using Mark of Gravity) inflicts neurotoxin turn 2 for 3 :time + 1 :gravity (2 towers + 1 :gravity mark)
Momentum Dune Scorpions is more likely to inflict neurotoxin on turn 2 because it requires only 2 towers rather than 4. It does come with side effects (+1hp, ignore shields, -1 :time per turn, effects of Momentum/SoP ing the 2nd scorpion)
Anyway, that's my last attempt to bring to light this issue. I'll let people continue to do the direct comparisons with buff cards, which I'm sure will follow.
The fact is, a generic quanta mass buff in a game with this few cards makes no sense, and will create a lot of challenges when designing and balancing cards in the future.
im not fan of the new SOR.. use a time ability twice? big deal? 5 time creatures to use that with? scarab, pharoah, nymph, deja vu, and fate egg... or a possible mutated creature thats time with an ability... more or less nerfed it to useless for time imo. also the huge health loss for SOSac i think is too much now to use. 20-30 was acceptable but 40 is way too high.. near half your life to stop more often than not (early game) less than 40 damage.. better off just taking the damage and using healing methods as usual.Why would you be using SoS in the early game? SoS costs 40|32 hp and becomes efficient if your opponent fields 11|9 attack. If the opponent has not breached this threashold then it will take them a minimum of 6|9 turns to prevent you from using SoS. The 6th|9th turn is not early game in my opinion.
Am I the only fan of the new life background?<---Fan of new life background
I am agree with Bored Ninja..im not fan of the new SOR.. use a time ability twice? big deal? 5 time creatures to use that with? scarab, pharoah, nymph, deja vu, and fate egg... or a possible mutated creature thats time with an ability... more or less nerfed it to useless for time imo. also the huge health loss for SOSac i think is too much now to use. 20-30 was acceptable but 40 is way too high.. near half your life to stop more often than not (early game) less than 40 damage.. better off just taking the damage and using healing methods as usual.Why would you be using SoS in the early game? SoS costs 40|32 hp and becomes efficient if your opponent fields 11|9 attack. If the opponent has not breached this threashold then it will take them a minimum of 6|9 turns to prevent you from using SoS. The 6th|9th turn is not early game in my opinion.
<---Me too!Am I the only fan of the new life background?<---Fan of new life background
I love the new background. It's vibrant and aLI(F)VE!<---Me too!Am I the only fan of the new life background?<---Fan of new life background
I think that some ppl dislike it (new life BG) for the lack of contrast. I say, if it's not perfect now, all you need to do is turn it sideways and add some more shadows.I love the new background. It's vibrant and aLI(F)VE!<---Me too!Am I the only fan of the new life background?<---Fan of new life background
Ok.... bad pun. (Yah, rly.) I really need to see new vs. old side by side to be able to make a fair assessment but they all seem like improvements to me (especially unupped earth!).
I have tried it in beta. Yes there is unpredictability, your opponent could be under 11|9 attack and jump without warning to over that knocking you below 40|32 hp. Have you considered the power of using Sundial to delay while the opponent increases their fielded attack to above the threshold? Alternatively you could include some of the generic quanta cost instant healing like SoD or Holy Light (timing dependent on mark).I am agree with Bored Ninja..im not fan of the new SOR.. use a time ability twice? big deal? 5 time creatures to use that with? scarab, pharoah, nymph, deja vu, and fate egg... or a possible mutated creature thats time with an ability... more or less nerfed it to useless for time imo. also the huge health loss for SOSac i think is too much now to use. 20-30 was acceptable but 40 is way too high.. near half your life to stop more often than not (early game) less than 40 damage.. better off just taking the damage and using healing methods as usual.Why would you be using SoS in the early game? SoS costs 40|32 hp and becomes efficient if your opponent fields 11|9 attack. If the opponent has not breached this threashold then it will take them a minimum of 6|9 turns to prevent you from using SoS. The 6th|9th turn is not early game in my opinion.
I have tried SoSac in beta. SoSac is not "playable" because of its high damage (This issue has been there even its initial damage is 30. I think 30 is high).. It is not about attack 11/9. Playing SoSac is never predictable.. What if the enemy summon monster with ?/? atk in next turn so you have hp below 32 in your turn, then SoSac is not playable anymore...
You should try it in beta too..
I have tried it in beta. Yes there is unpredictability, your opponent could be under 11|9 attack and jump without warning to over that knocking you below 40|32 hp. Have you considered the power of using Sundial to delay while the opponent increases their fielded attack to above the threshold? Alternatively you could include some of the generic quanta cost instant healing like SoD or Holy Light (timing dependent on mark).If it is use with healing, such as SoD + SoSac, then it is slightly equivalent with dimensional shield +protect artifact.
Closer to Dim Shield + SoD. Playable and useful but not top tier/OP anymore.I have tried it in beta. Yes there is unpredictability, your opponent could be under 11|9 attack and jump without warning to over that knocking you below 40|32 hp. Have you considered the power of using Sundial to delay while the opponent increases their fielded attack to above the threshold? Alternatively you could include some of the generic quanta cost instant healing like SoD or Holy Light (timing dependent on mark).If it is use with healing, such as SoD + SoSac, then it is slightly equivalent with dimensional shield +protect artifact.
Playable but rather not very useful... :(
The idea of SoSa is you play it while you have quite a bit of hp still so that you are not taking damage any more. Don't think of it as a card that is meant to heal you back up when you are low on hp, that is completely wrong. It is used at high hp, and you take damage, and if your opponent doesn't heal you up for that amount of damage, then you played it at a bad time, oh well, if you get back to 100%, play another one after that. It's basically 2 turns of complete invulnerability without your opponent being able to cancel the effect.The 11|9 threshold was calculated on this basis. (+ some healing to recoup the card used).
If your opponent has out enough damage to give you back enough hp to play another shard after the first one runs out, then that is all you need.True, and that's awesome for the metagame. It means that rushes that just throw out huge damage are wicked punished by SoSa, while midline decks that field up to 19 damage (15 upped) while controlling your attackers are perfectly able to handle SoSa. That's exactly the kind of metagame shift Elements needs. In fact, most of the current shards (SoSe excepted) are leaning towards that slower, mid-line playing style, and I love it. :)
11/9 threshold? I don't know what this means. If you are talking about total dmg per turn, then that doesn't even matter. You don't wait until your opponent gets out a big creature. If your opponent has out enough damage to give you back enough hp to play another shard after the first one runs out, then that is all you need. Either your opponent continues to discard their creatures, or play them and heal you up faster.If the opponent is doing less than 10|8 total damage per turn then playing SoS speeds up your demise. (you are taking 40|32 damage from SoS)
It's worth playing even if they are only doing 5 damage. If they are only doing 5 damage, it is still 2 turns that you won't have to worry about them playing any more creatures (if they are smart), which means they might have to discard. 2 turns to draw another SoSa as well, so if you can stack it, you will live for 4 turns. Also if you get 2 in your opening hand, you could start off by playing both right away, that means you now have 4 turns you won't be taking any damage, but your opponent might be inclined to not play any creatures allowing you to set something up.Risky play. You lose an average of 15|11hp per turn (10|6 more than without SoS) in that first example just to delay them playing creatures. (they would probably play creatures rather than discard) It may occasionally be worth that but rarely. Having them play their creatures and then use SoS sounds like the better move IMO.
About SoR: I think SoR needs a buff on it non-time use. Now it is underused and It will stay this way if nothing is done against that.I think SoR is strong enough to use on non-time creature such as: mitosis creature and creature that use many quanta (such as nymph) or maybe creature that use quanta that there is not in main quanta.. So, SoR is quite strong card depend on the strategy.
Dimensional Shield + Protect Artifact give more advantages:Well, basically all decks that don't use aether and earth ;)
- playable
- no quanta loses.
- synergy with healing.
- 3 turn life saver (1 turn more than SoSac)
Then, why we should use SoSac anymore??
Maybe I am wrong. Please someone tell me a deck that really get the most benefit of SoSac..
(..)
Dimensional Shield + Protect Artifact give more advantages:That combo requires two cards, not one, big difference.
- playable
- no quanta loses.
- synergy with healing.
- 3 turn life saver (1 turn more than SoSac)
Then, why we should use SoSac anymore??
Maybe I am wrong. Please someone tell me a deck that really get the most benefit of SoSac..About SoR: I think SoR needs a buff on it non-time use. Now it is underused and It will stay this way if nothing is done against that.I think SoR is strong enough to use on non-time creature such as: mitosis creature and creature that use many quanta (such as nymph) or maybe creature that use quanta that there is not in main quanta.. So, SoR is quite strong card depend on the strategy.
Until we can use the cards in pvp, I think they are fine the way they are now. Also the quanta cap should go back to 50, 75 is pointless unless you're playing firestall, and that is only one deck, plus using fahrenheit, you don't even need 75 quanta, probably not even 50 half the time. And stone skin is fine at 50, any argument saying it should be at 75 no longer counts, it is a card that doesn't get used enough for any argument to count.75 is barely enough for ROL/Hope to still be relevant as a grinder, 50 would pretty much kill it.
RoL Hope works well with Archangels too, you know. Also, it's the BEST grinder there is around now, I wouldn't mind it being slightly nerfed.Until we can use the cards in pvp, I think they are fine the way they are now. Also the quanta cap should go back to 50, 75 is pointless unless you're playing firestall, and that is only one deck, plus using fahrenheit, you don't even need 75 quanta, probably not even 50 half the time. And stone skin is fine at 50, any argument saying it should be at 75 no longer counts, it is a card that doesn't get used enough for any argument to count.75 is barely enough for ROL/Hope to still be relevant as a grinder, 50 would pretty much kill it.
dragons are better against FGs with damage reduction shields or healing. also, with only 6 needed upgraded card and 2-3 rares its fairly newbie accessible. i havent done the math on archangels vs FGs with miracle though.RoL Hope works well with Archangels too, you know. Also, it's the BEST grinder there is around now, I wouldn't mind it being slightly nerfed.Until we can use the cards in pvp, I think they are fine the way they are now. Also the quanta cap should go back to 50, 75 is pointless unless you're playing firestall, and that is only one deck, plus using fahrenheit, you don't even need 75 quanta, probably not even 50 half the time. And stone skin is fine at 50, any argument saying it should be at 75 no longer counts, it is a card that doesn't get used enough for any argument to count.75 is barely enough for ROL/Hope to still be relevant as a grinder, 50 would pretty much kill it.
It is also mainly used for FG grinding although it is every once in a while for pvp. Aka, it is almost irrelevant that it is nerfed since FG's shouldnt be considered.RoL Hope works well with Archangels too, you know. Also, it's the BEST grinder there is around now, I wouldn't mind it being slightly nerfed.Until we can use the cards in pvp, I think they are fine the way they are now. Also the quanta cap should go back to 50, 75 is pointless unless you're playing firestall, and that is only one deck, plus using fahrenheit, you don't even need 75 quanta, probably not even 50 half the time. And stone skin is fine at 50, any argument saying it should be at 75 no longer counts, it is a card that doesn't get used enough for any argument to count.75 is barely enough for ROL/Hope to still be relevant as a grinder, 50 would pretty much kill it.
dragons are better against FGs with damage reduction shields or healing. also, with only 6 needed upgraded card and 2-3 rares its fairly newbie accessible. i havent done the math on archangels vs FGs with miracle though.I'm not really sure what the problem is. I've been playing unupped Rol/hope against the FG and think you should be able to do okay against miracle using FGs. Just fractal earlier play a few dragons and calculate the damage so that you can easily tip the balance. Lets say you've fractalled and played 2 of the dragons, you are now doing 40 (ish) damage per turn. With 50 quanta and 4 dragons in hand you can kill FGs with up to 80 hp.
4 dragons for 40 damage. the buffer for using miracle is damage on board +30. its still possible, but you have to pretty much perfectly calculate your damage output.dragons are better against FGs with damage reduction shields or healing. also, with only 6 needed upgraded card and 2-3 rares its fairly newbie accessible. i havent done the math on archangels vs FGs with miracle though.I'm not really sure what the problem is. I've been playing unupped Rol/hope against the FG and think you should be able to do okay against miracle using FGs. Just fractal earlier play a few dragons and calculate the damage so that you can easily tip the balance. Lets say you've fractalled and played 2 of the dragons, you are now doing 40 (ish) damage per turn. With 50 quanta and 4 dragons in hand you can kill FGs with up to 80 hp.
If you aren't going to hit 50-75hp when you fractal, e.g. they are at 120hp then you need to play out more dragons to manage the HP.
Admittedly I haven't done much FG grinding so there might be some subtleties I'm missing.
I've been making ridiculous electrum with Archangels in RoL/Hope for about a year, and you never need 75 :light.yeah, i am ok with the cap of 75, its a little bothersome, but manageable. i was explaining why 50 was really bad. is it still mark dependant? ive been grinding the regular version while its still easy and havent gone back to the beta,
It's not a deck that suffers from a cap since I think it works just as well with Angels, and even with Dragons you very rarely need that much. 50 would be a bit bothersome, but 75 gives you 5 Dragons. Not even necessary. You just have to think a little before playing all your awesome Dragons early, roar.
The few decks that suffer slightly from a cap of 75 are Fractal Dragon decks that have no Blitz, which is something you've only seen prominently in War so far. By Team Aether. And that's just slightly.
Something that's completely killed off is Sudden Killer, but that's just a PvE deck, and a pretty mediocre one.
So its a fractal nerf as well? Another card that many people agree needs nerfed. Meanwhile, once again, FG's shouldnt be considered.I've been making ridiculous electrum with Archangels in RoL/Hope for about a year, and you never need 75 :light.
It's not a deck that suffers from a cap since I think it works just as well with Angels, and even with Dragons you very rarely need that much. 50 would be a bit bothersome, but 75 gives you 5 Dragons. Not even necessary. You just have to think a little before playing all your awesome Dragons early, roar.
The few decks that suffer slightly from a cap of 75 are Fractal Dragon decks that have no Blitz, which is something you've only seen prominently in War so far. By Team Aether. And that's just slightly.
Something that's completely killed off is Sudden Killer, but that's just a PvE deck, and a pretty mediocre one.
yeah, i am ok with the cap of 75, its a little bothersome, but manageable. i was explaining why 50 was really bad. is it still mark dependant? ive been grinding the regular version while its still easy and havent gone back to the beta,
again, except against FGs, or for that matter PVP players, with miracle.So its a fractal nerf as well? Another card that many people agree needs nerfed. Meanwhile, once again, FG's shouldnt be considered.I've been making ridiculous electrum with Archangels in RoL/Hope for about a year, and you never need 75 :light.
It's not a deck that suffers from a cap since I think it works just as well with Angels, and even with Dragons you very rarely need that much. 50 would be a bit bothersome, but 75 gives you 5 Dragons. Not even necessary. You just have to think a little before playing all your awesome Dragons early, roar.
The few decks that suffer slightly from a cap of 75 are Fractal Dragon decks that have no Blitz, which is something you've only seen prominently in War so far. By Team Aether. And that's just slightly.
Something that's completely killed off is Sudden Killer, but that's just a PvE deck, and a pretty mediocre one.
yeah, i am ok with the cap of 75, its a little bothersome, but manageable. i was explaining why 50 was really bad. is it still mark dependant? ive been grinding the regular version while its still easy and havent gone back to the beta,
RoL hope, just makes you have to wait a little before playing ALL of the dragons. You can still get full use out of fractal, it will just take a turn or 2 more.
Max cost of a card 14(phase dragon)*8= 112>751) You can't fractal phase dragons, no matter how hard you try.
75//8=9
So with a 75quanta cap you cannot empty your full filled fractal hand in one go if you have cards that cost more than 9.
So stop dragon fractal.
This is actually a little nerf to:
Dragons
Fractal
Firebolt
Drain Bolt
Rustler
Ice bolt
And a minor buff to
Nightmare
Devourer
I don't like a nerf campaign, as i will use less powerful cards.
It's like battling with wooden swords!
Shards shouldn't have so little stats!I'd rather pack a upped Short sword(3atk 1 cost), than a shard that heals me for 3 and cost 3.
I don't like a nerf campaign, as i will use less powerful cards.I fail to see the problem with people using other cards than firestall cards.
I fail to see the problem with people using other cards than firestall cards.I do! It means less EMs for me when I play vs the arena if people aren't using crappy firestalls there.
OP updated. Hopefully I remembered everything.You forgot the new Darkness background. :D
CTRL F5 ? :)OP updated. Hopefully I remembered everything.You forgot the new Darkness background. :D
Woo, thanks! :DCTRL F5 ? :)OP updated. Hopefully I remembered everything.You forgot the new Darkness background. :D
change earth back at least!You'll get used to it in time, it was too close to Time anyways... hehehe
oh god this annoys meThings look weird to you just because they look different. After a couple of days/weeks, all that weirdness will be replaced with awesomeness. :)
my favorite element has had some major nerfs, darkness and especially earth looks weird, and the health thingy is just distracting...
change earth back at least!
I DONT LIKE CHANGE!!!!!!!!!!oh god this annoys meThings look weird to you just because they look different. After a couple of days/weeks, all that weirdness will be replaced with awesomeness. :)
my favorite element has had some major nerfs, darkness and especially earth looks weird, and the health thingy is just distracting...
change earth back at least!
ninja'd.
Explosion/deflag nerf hurts more all other elements than fire.Exactly. Fire is still OP element, in Arena we have still Fire domination. Cap 75 change NOTHING. Ok, new shard for Aether can change it, but You can't win game using only defense cards.
The rushing side of fire been nerfed a lil, and the main prob everyone was concerned about was the stalling potential and it's versatility, both aspects are still there.
Immo still generates +11 other quanta which gives room for lots of 1~2 cost keycards from other elements (Rewind, purify, thunderbolt, etc).
Bolts are still very useful as cc and fahrenheit deals more than enough damage so the bolts are still good finishers.
Cmon, posts like this already, really? Give it a week at least for the current decks in arena to drop out and then a month for the new shards to proliferate then we'll see where things stand. Fire took a massive hit this patch and we don't even know what the new card/shard will be and yet you're already preaching doom.Explosion/deflag nerf hurts more all other elements than fire.Exactly. Fire is still OP element, in Arena we have still Fire domination. Cap 75 change NOTHING. Ok, new shard for Aether can change it, but You can't win game using only defense cards.
The rushing side of fire been nerfed a lil, and the main prob everyone was concerned about was the stalling potential and it's versatility, both aspects are still there.
Immo still generates +11 other quanta which gives room for lots of 1~2 cost keycards from other elements (Rewind, purify, thunderbolt, etc).
Bolts are still very useful as cc and fahrenheit deals more than enough damage so the bolts are still good finishers.
When Heal cost 3/2, why FireLance (IceBolt etc) cost 3/1?
Immolation should give only :fire quantum - then it will be real nerf.
Fire is powerful, when we add new Shard and new card it will be more powerful... Game hasn't got balance.
I see that 1.291 (or 1.30 with new card) will be buffing fire, not nerfing.
Cmon, posts like this already, really? Give it a week at least for the current decks in arena to drop out and then a month for the new shards to proliferate then we'll see where things stand. Fire took a massive hit this patch and we don't even know what the new card/shard will be and yet you're already preaching doom.Do You really think that after week we will see at top decks :air :life :light or :water? OK, we can wait and see ;)
I think I like the whole update.yeah that's for sure ;)
The new backgrounds are just AMAZING!
Yeah, I'm pretty happy with the new card frames, too. I especially like the upped earth/death ones and the unupped darkness one.I think :earth cards look like :gravity cards now, it irritates me every time I look for Basilisk Blood in my deck.
How about a new quest when you get to pick a Shard like the quest where you pick a Weapon. Once all the shards are release preferably.This is a very intresting idea.
For the SoR thing, maybe just making it so you can't use the ability on the first turn after playing SoR would be enough? That would slow down the SoR/deja vu deck by a turn, and give a chance to kill it before it divides into 3.Wouldn't that be the same as before the buff?
No, because time creatures would still be able to use their abilities twice, just not until the turn after you play SoR. (unless the creatuer was already in play to start the turn, and then you could use it immediately as normal)SoR with Adrenaline was better for DejaVu (and probably OP with momentum) than is now. I think that this change was very good. Now SoR skill is compatibile with Time and gives for Time advantage. Win in 2 turns is nearly impossible (only mathematic chances: with win toss coin, perfect hand, a lot of lucky and no opponent reaction).
How about a new quest when you get to pick a Shard like the quest where you pick a Weapon. Once all the shards are release preferably.I like that idea.
How about a new quest when you get to pick a Shard like the quest where you pick a Weapon. Once all the shards are release preferably.I totally support this idea. Shards are a better reward than weapons, but not as good as nymphs or marks, which shouldn´t be quest rewards. A shard reward would also introduce new players into the rare system of shards. All we need is a good quest task for players.
I approve, just as long as it doesnt replace the old one....Quote from: ToxxHow about a new quest when you get to pick a Shard like the quest where you pick a Weapon. Once all the shards are release preferably.I totally support this idea. Shards are a better reward than weapons, but not as good as nymphs or marks, which shouldn´t be quest rewards. A shard reward would also introduce new players into the rare system of shards. All we need is a good quest task for players.
or maybe a repeatable quest?well that would probably need to be made something which noobs can do but more experienced player cant do really fast, what do you propose?
I love all the new backgrounds after getting used to them. Especially purdy if you make a rainbow deck :>Earth seems a bit too dark than what I was used to, but they are really pretty. I also find it neat how on the deckbuilding screen even your mark has little stripes on the left.
If there is to be a new shard quest, then either it should be for the FG, although I'd throw out the 'experienced players can't do it fast and new players can do' requirement since I don't see that working unless a lot of effort is put in.the requirement was only really if it were to be a repeatable quest, getting a shard each time you beat an fg seems like too much...
Like for instance, if the more elaborate quest type ideas are put in like a storyline. Beating a FG is the simplest solution though.
well, it could be a once per day quest to prevent speed of experienced players from being an issue...or maybe a repeatable quest?well that would probably need to be made something which noobs can do but more experienced player cant do really fast, what do you propose?
A shard a day still feels like too much...well, it could be a once per day quest to prevent speed of experienced players from being an issue...or maybe a repeatable quest?well that would probably need to be made something which noobs can do but more experienced player cant do really fast, what do you propose?
Maybe it should be linked to the Oracle?well, it could be a once per day quest to prevent speed of experienced players from being an issue...or maybe a repeatable quest?well that would probably need to be made something which noobs can do but more experienced player cant do really fast, what do you propose?
eeyup, quint does make this too easy...Maybe it should be linked to the Oracle?well, it could be a once per day quest to prevent speed of experienced players from being an issue...or maybe a repeatable quest?well that would probably need to be made something which noobs can do but more experienced player cant do really fast, what do you propose?
For example, if you win a match (don't know what AI would be more appropriate) with your pet still alive you win a shard.
This way you got only 3 attempt per day.
... I just realized that Quintessence would make this quest almost useless...
The shards are now available in the arena and as a donation reward now.Brilliant. Time to get me some shards.
Time to head back to bronze!Time to farm anything but bronze for :electrum while everyone is farming it for shards.
The shards are now available in the arena and as a donation reward now.Nuuu... can you leave it for Fate Egg?
Edit: About deja vu / SoR. I am doing some testing, I think that the 3rd copy is simply too much. I am probably going to just let the code do what it naturally did, zero the skill, activate the skill and, when the skill is used, two copies of the deja vu are created - the skill is gone.
About deja vu / SoR. I am doing some testing, I think that the 3rd copy is simply too much. I am probably going to just let the code do what it naturally did, zero the skill, activate the skill and, when the skill is used, two copies of the deja vu are created - the skill is gone.Sadly, I have to agree. I loved that short period of extremely regular 3-turn wins for the deck that would have been Ready, Aim, Miss Fire, but it was just too much. :) Good call.
Farm Silver. Besides the fact that it makes actual electrum, it is faster since the majority of the decks there don't know how to do basic things like quanta balance, or click the Dexterity Button.Time to head back to bronze!Time to farm anything but bronze for :electrum while everyone is farming it for shards.
please put 1.29 in the trainer.It has been in the trainer for almost 24h now
please put 1.29 in the trainer.It has been in the trainer for almost 24h now
I've gotten 50+ special spins off of silver/bronze after the new shards have been implemented and have won quite a few rares.qft. ive basically given up at this point.
Haven't seen a new shard yet, but eh.
I've gotten 50+ special spins off of silver/bronze after the new shards have been implemented and have won quite a few rares.Number of rares in the game = 12 (weapons) + 3 (Squid, Pharaoh, Miracle) + 3 (old shards) + 4 (new shards) = 22
Haven't seen a new shard yet, but eh.
I have made tests with the (unupped) rare spinner. It has 4 cards.Assuming that each rare is equally likely to be called up for the rare spin:
i agree.. i cant even count the times i got faced with 2 easier platinums and then bam.. fireownage game 3.. or some lame start and they get OMFG miracle rape start... ive pretty much stopped playing for few days now starting today.. unless WOE puts me in a battle its just losing interest.. takes far too much time just to get 1 new shard let alone many.. and my own arena decks never do well.. it seems bronze and platinum dont have 500 people in them? which leads them to be able to play longer and gain more electrum whereas in gold, 1 or 2 loses and your out.. even if i was 5/2 i was >500. Im lucky to get 5 or 10 electrum and my decks last a day? the one time i got Firelance it lasted 1 day.. went 3|3. Idk what magical decks you guys are putting up to last days on end and gain you decent electrum but Gold arena certainly sucks for me.Yeah, gold arena is a bit more competitive. I'll throw out the most basic piece of advice even though it feels natural for everyone to know it because I "do" see decks in silver and sometimes gold that fail this rule. Turn. Dexterity. On. No, I don't care if your deck is lvl 21 and that means you can't have 200 hp, no, I don't care if you "need" that x2 or x3 mark. Dexterity it up.
it would be nice if we could just pay 1000 coin for a new shard from the bazaar.Then it wouldnt be rare...
Are Shards going to be Relics in spins? If not, I'm just waiting a month until they start showing up regularly in Arena decks and winning them that way. They're cool and all, but I don't have time to grind like that these days.They appear as normal in special spins, so I would imagine they appear as normal against decks that have them in Arena as well.
i put in an all-pillar arena deck, i suggest everyone else do the same. in the end everyone will make more money beating on the dumby decks than they would winning 5 coin per win and will get quicker bonus spins.that kind of defeats purpose of arena being better than top 50.. i do agree that arena has improved over top50 but it has also led to the obvious imbalances in the game e.g. firestalls being overpowered etc.. which has led to this update giving fire a slight nerf and fixing other cards which I am more or less happy about.
They do appear as shards in normal spins. Just won a SoG from a regular match against a bronze deck.Are Shards going to be Relics in spins? If not, I'm just waiting a month until they start showing up regularly in Arena decks and winning them that way. They're cool and all, but I don't have time to grind like that these days.They appear as normal in special spins, so I would imagine they appear as normal against decks that have them in Arena as well.
Grinding silver is very profitable.Do u think so? It's a 40 E win each game with no EM. FGs are much more profittable!
That's what I've been doing.
63, and I EM often enough that while its not as profitable as FGs/Higher leagues, its not like I'm grinding AI0.Grinding silver is very profitable.Do u think so? It's a 40 E win each game with no EM. FGs are much more profittable!
That's what I've been doing.
Grinding plat with the right deck is..... no word to describe it :)What deck do you use for grinding platinum?
but I won 7000 score in 1h30 just to say :)
arsendial with SoS obvawwww... i still don't have any of the new shards... :(
Dear Zanz,I agree with this man, and this has nothing to do with his humpably good looks.
Please bring back the old SoR/Fate Egg Combo. Deja Vu was obviously broken, but there was nothing wrong on the fate side of things.
Thank you.
Dear Zanz,SoR/Fate Egg still generate 2 creatures...
Please bring back the old SoR/Fate Egg Combo. Deja Vu was obviously broken, but there was nothing wrong on the fate side of things.
Thank you.
Since When? I tried it yesterday and only got 1.Dear Zanz,SoR/Fate Egg still generate 2 creatures...
Please bring back the old SoR/Fate Egg Combo. Deja Vu was obviously broken, but there was nothing wrong on the fate side of things.
Thank you.
Tested in v1.291 - Unupped Fate Egg and SoReadiness.Since When? I tried it yesterday and only got 1.Dear Zanz,SoR/Fate Egg still generate 2 creatures...
Please bring back the old SoR/Fate Egg Combo. Deja Vu was obviously broken, but there was nothing wrong on the fate side of things.
Thank you.
Is that a recent change? Cause I tested it yesterday, and it didnt work. Also, Does Deja Vu work again then? Would test myself but have to go to work.Tested in v1.291 - Unupped Fate Egg and SoReadiness.Since When? I tried it yesterday and only got 1.Dear Zanz,SoR/Fate Egg still generate 2 creatures...
Please bring back the old SoR/Fate Egg Combo. Deja Vu was obviously broken, but there was nothing wrong on the fate side of things.
Thank you.
Did you have a Mark of :time?Since When? I tried it yesterday and only got 1.Dear Zanz,SoR/Fate Egg still generate 2 creatures...
Please bring back the old SoR/Fate Egg Combo. Deja Vu was obviously broken, but there was nothing wrong on the fate side of things.
Thank you.
Whoops. Meant unupped Fate Egg and upped SoReadiness in Previous Quote.Is that a recent change? Cause I tested it yesterday, and it didnt work. Also, Does Deja Vu work again then? Would test myself but have to go to work.Tested in v1.291 - Unupped Fate Egg and SoReadiness.Since When? I tried it yesterday and only got 1.Dear Zanz,SoR/Fate Egg still generate 2 creatures...
Please bring back the old SoR/Fate Egg Combo. Deja Vu was obviously broken, but there was nothing wrong on the fate side of things.
Thank you.
the shard of sacrifice is a permanent i think since it last a few turns...isn't is?Nope, it's a spell. It would be easier to counter as a perm, and possibly more balanced. As is, the only counter is Silence since you'd have to act pro-actively to counter it. There are also some soft counters like Sundial and Shard of Patience. You can also try freezing your own creatures with Squid (or delaying with Auburn Nymph), but the lost offensive power while the opponent can still attack is a pretty terrible deal.
i don't like the look of shard of divinity....:(
Quanta pool capped?! :oI'm also curious as to why there is a cap on the quanta pool.
Because Zanz hates fire stalld and fire lance sudden killers and there is (or will be soon, idk if it is already) a shard that reduces BY HALF the max ammount of quanta the oponent can have.Quanta pool capped?! :oI'm also curious as to why there is a cap on the quanta pool.
As Far as Black Hole+the new shard goes,Arena. (as I mentioned in the shard thread)
Remember, you only have 6 black holes. You can only stall for so long. Amber nymphs on the other hand will be even more powerful.
Which should not be considered when it comes to determining a cards balance.As Far as Black Hole+the new shard goes,Arena. (as I mentioned in the shard thread)
Remember, you only have 6 black holes. You can only stall for so long. Amber nymphs on the other hand will be even more powerful.
why would pvp1/2 only be considered? i NEVER play either one.. mainly because the last time i tried it glitched out ever single match .. i couldnt be in any tournies or lgs due to it.. and im wondering when it comes to it in WOE if it will do the same. so as far as balancing yes arena should be considered since 12 blackholes 12 shards and the usual pestal deck would be so over quanta denial you couldnt play anything ever.. consistently.
What Makes A Card OverpoweredAI should NEVER be a consideration when it comes to balance. Arena is SUPPOSE to be unfair, just like false Gods are suppose to be unfair. If you want to tlak about balancing a card, talk about pvp, not pve. If anything Zanz can nerf the AI for certain card combos as he has done in the past with silence.
Any or all of the following could mean a card is op:
1) High power level in relation to simliar cards.
2) Cost not balanced with effect.
3) Provides easily exploited card advantage.
And just because there is a way to counter a card does not mean it is fair and balanced.
Important Quote From Gl1tch That Should Be Read Before Posting In This SectionWhen you look at balancing cards, you cannot look at decks, or AI, or AI level. You can only look at cards. All else can follow once it's balanced.
and adding a card to the game that could be over exploited in arena is not something to think about?The problem is that The new shard isnt what ends up being the problem card. The problem card ends up being Black Hole.
@Zanz: Is the Shard of Void inspired by my Voidwalker | Voidstalker (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21456.0.html)?what he said, but substitute his card for my shard of restraint (#1) haha
If yes, someone please put it in the Reliquary. If not, ignore this post.
Slightly unrelated, but is there a way to track how the stats of Elements cards changes over time? Like what's going on here (http://elementsthegame.com/liststats.php), but with a history of previous stats, maybe fixed to show their usage relative to each other. I'm particularly interested in seeing the usage of SoG seeing as it's 2nd in the upped list right now, but general consensus seems to be that it's been neutered, for lack of a better word.http://elementscommunity.org/wiki/resources/patch-notes/
That isn't what he means.Slightly unrelated, but is there a way to track how the stats of Elements cards changes over time? Like what's going on here (http://elementsthegame.com/liststats.php), but with a history of previous stats, maybe fixed to show their usage relative to each other. I'm particularly interested in seeing the usage of SoG seeing as it's 2nd in the upped list right now, but general consensus seems to be that it's been neutered, for lack of a better word.http://elementscommunity.org/wiki/resources/patch-notes/
Slightly unrelated, but is there a way to track how the stats of Elements cards changes over time? Like what's going on here (http://elementsthegame.com/liststats.php), but with a history of previous stats, maybe fixed to show their usage relative to each other. I'm particularly interested in seeing the usage of SoG seeing as it's 2nd in the upped list right now, but general consensus seems to be that it's been neutered, for lack of a better word.http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4093.0
how about the consideration that if PVE becomes broken enough, no one will be able to earn the cards they need to pvp?Which should not be considered when it comes to determining a cards balance.As Far as Black Hole+the new shard goes,Arena. (as I mentioned in the shard thread)
Remember, you only have 6 black holes. You can only stall for so long. Amber nymphs on the other hand will be even more powerful.
Arena, Pvp Events (including war), False Gods, or ANY type of AI should not be considered when balancing cards. Only pvp 1/2 should be considered.
For normal (non arena) AI, change the deck until balance is restored. The balance of PvE of this type is ensured through predetermined decks.how about the consideration that if PVE becomes broken enough, no one will be able to earn the cards they need to pvp?Which should not be considered when it comes to determining a cards balance.As Far as Black Hole+the new shard goes,Arena. (as I mentioned in the shard thread)
Remember, you only have 6 black holes. You can only stall for so long. Amber nymphs on the other hand will be even more powerful.
Arena, Pvp Events (including war), False Gods, or ANY type of AI should not be considered when balancing cards. Only pvp 1/2 should be considered.
oh i see, i had been confused by the shard beside it in the pics....since it both last 2 turnsthe shard of sacrifice is a permanent i think since it last a few turns...isn't is?Nope, it's a spell. It would be easier to counter as a perm, and possibly more balanced. As is, the only counter is Silence since you'd have to act pro-actively to counter it. There are also some soft counters like Sundial and Shard of Patience. You can also try freezing your own creatures with Squid (or delaying with Auburn Nymph), but the lost offensive power while the opponent can still attack is a pretty terrible deal.
i don't like the look of shard of divinity....:(
Is it too early to whine about terrible bonus spins? 10hrs of farming platinum, 50+ spins and I've never seen a single new shard in the spin (not even talking about winning it...). Should I clear some browser cache? Version displayed seems to be correct - 1.291.Clear your browser cache; the paranoid side of me thinks that the game doesn't load the new shards in until you clear it out. I went through a good dozen bonus spins without seeing any new shards. When I cleared my cache, I finally started to see them in the bonus spins.
Erm, bad luck? =/
Number of rares in the game = 12 (weapons) + 3 (Squid, Pharaoh, Miracle) + 3 (old shards) + 4 (new shards) = 22
Cards called up in bonus spins = 4I have made tests with the (unupped) rare spinner. It has 4 cards.Assuming that each rare is equally likely to be called up for the rare spin:
P (no new shards called up) = 18/22 * 17/21 * 16/20 * 15/19 = 0.418
P (at least one new shard called up) = 0.582
That's right. Almost 60% chance of seeing a new shard :\
i have yet to see one over about ~30 or so bonus spins. i cleared my cache this morning, maybe that will help.beforehand did your game say 1.29?
While I wish it was that easy, it's not. The second 1.291 came out, I cleared my cache and reloaded. 1.291 in the corner, check. I go to Bronze and start grinding. I play for several hours every day and lose a grand total of one game a day. With that, I've had dozens upon dozens of bonus spins every day, and I've seen -one- new Shard in three days of farming. I didn't win it either.You've seen 1 though. The point im trying to discover is if once its 1.291 the shards are guaranteed to have a chance to show up or not. Pre 1.291 they had a chance because the shards were introduced then, but once you are in 1.291 you should have the ability to get them regardless (even if you may be extremely unlucky)
Meanwhile, some people already have 6 of this and 5 of that. This is why I never used to play RNG-based games x)
But I'm still not in a hurry.
yep, first thing i checked. i have also reloaded the webpage several times.i have yet to see one over about ~30 or so bonus spins. i cleared my cache this morning, maybe that will help.beforehand did your game say 1.29?
I won a Shard of Serendipity from a bonus spin on Gold about 24 hours ago. I kept playing, left my computer on overnight, and finally went to the Bazaar screen this morning...no SoSe. :(did you sell it accidentally? :o
The Arena Screen doesn't save your progress, you have to go back to the main game menu. Maybe the long wait period without saving progress or the oracle rolling over screwed something up? I go back to the menu and get the progress saved to pop up a few times every time I win a new shard.the arena main page doesnt save. starting a new arena match should though.
im seriously thinking about resetting my account just to stop me from continuing to try to get shards from the arena. no hope here. either im bugged or the %s of shards showing up are infinitesimal or i am an outlier of unluckiness, or some combination of the above. either way, i am not enjoying this grind at all. at least with :electrum grinding you could see some progress over time, but with this it's a black box slot machine.I am laughing at how naive you all are. Zanzarino put some names in a list so that no one of you can get the new Shards (you have like a 0.005%). And when you do it, they are deleted. Ask Essence.
im seriously thinking about resetting my account just to stop me from continuing to try to get shards from the arena. no hope here. either im bugged or the %s of shards showing up are infinitesimal or i am an outlier of unluckiness, or some combination of the above. either way, i am not enjoying this grind at all. at least with :electrum grinding you could see some progress over time, but with this it's a black box slot machine.Clear your internet cache or try the game in a different browser.
im seriously thinking about resetting my account just to stop me from continuing to try to get shards from the arena. no hope here. either im bugged or the %s of shards showing up are infinitesimal or i am an outlier of unluckiness, or some combination of the above. either way, i am not enjoying this grind at all. at least with :electrum grinding you could see some progress over time, but with this it's a black box slot machine.Wait until the new shards become more prevalent so winning them will be easier :>
I won a Shard of Serendipity from a bonus spin on Gold about 24 hours ago. I kept playing, left my computer on overnight, and finally went to the Bazaar screen this morning...no SoSe. :(This is not an isolated incident, you found a bug, or something. I've been grinding silver league, and apparently something has started using shards. Anyway, I got an awesome three spins afterward in which I won a Vampire Stiletto and Shard of Void. Since I have the other rares, I went to sell the Stiletto, and check out my new shard. The Stiletto was there, but the Shard wasn't.
Clear your internet cache or try the game in a different browser.So 1.291 showing means nothing. Thank you for clearing that up. *goes to wipe google chrome (the better browser)*
The file that contains that information is downloaded from the server as a separate file; it has nothing to do with your client version.
Your browser might be stuck on the old version of that file.
Refreshing does not help in this case.
*snipZanzwuzhearsnip*google chrome (the better browser)*No. I object. Seamonkey. It has an editor. Pwnd.
If you've cleared your cache and haven't seen any in the special spins, either you're unlucky, or you really didn't clear your cache. Go to the trainer, if you see no shards in the bazaar, clear your cache.I see the shards in trainer, does that mean I am unlucky?
Youre just unlucky then. If you cleared your cache, then you would be able to find them.If you've cleared your cache and haven't seen any in the special spins, either you're unlucky, or you really didn't clear your cache. Go to the trainer, if you see no shards in the bazaar, clear your cache.I see the shards in trainer, does that mean I am unlucky?
Haven't seen a shard for 13-15 spins though :(
Does that mean I will see them when my luck will change?
I'm just asking cause I just saw a shard after I changed browser.
(and I know how to clear the browser's cache xD)
thanks, fixed it. earlier i simply cleared the cache and reloaded the page, but that didnt seem to work, so i cleared cache, closed the browser, reloaded the webpage, cleared the cache again, reloaded the page again, after about 4 spins i won shard of patience... irony?Lol, just to ask, what deck do you use Moomoose?
some combination of arena destroyer and (*modified) jmz classic, arena destroyer didnt have enough PC, i would occasionally lose to mono-aether, which was annoying, so i added in the crusader/pulvy.Any reason for the unupped cards? :o
My guess is he doesn't have them. I use a similar variant of what he uses, just different upgraded cards.some combination of arena destroyer and (*modified) jmz classic, arena destroyer didnt have enough PC, i would occasionally lose to mono-aether, which was annoying, so i added in the crusader/pulvy.Any reason for the unupped cards? :o
That's a significant enough mod that it deserves it's own thread. Looks kinda badass, actually. :)Not really. All it did was change the archangel for a crusader, have a gargoyle instead of steals, phase recluse for the twin universe, the abyss crawler for the ulitharid, and a pulverizer for a forest spectre....Actually that is quite a big change. But then again, in a 30 card SNbow deck, changing one or two cards can change it completely.
Are we looking at the same deck? The original didn't have Wings or Discord either. :)Uh...what deck were you referring to? I was referring to tha gold league killer (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29406.0)
they have no where to land, so they tire out and eventually can fly no longer so they plunge into the water struggling to swim but are already so tired from constant flying so they DIE!!!!Only :water creatures swim. Even frogs don't know how :P
its magic :water elemental waterthey have no where to land, so they tire out and eventually can fly no longer so they plunge into the water struggling to swim but are already so tired from constant flying so they DIE!!!!Only :water creatures swim. Even frogs don't know how :P
It most certainly is odd that airborne creatures can drown :p I try to think of it as something more like a storm at sea, though, rather than simply just drowning. If flooding didn't work on airborne creatures, it would be an even weaker card than it already is. Definitely odd though! ;)The explanation is that the flooding covers the entire planet many, many times over. So it covers everything. And outer space. And all the creatures that aren't :water are made of sodium. So they explode.
"And all the creatures that aren't :water are made of sodium. So they explode."I just did it, it was like a barrel in Boxhead games :-\
contain sodium, sure. table salt is sodium chloride, put some of that in the toilet and see if it goes boom.
i know that you were being facetious
"The explanation is that the flooding covers the entire planet many, many times over. So it covers everything. And outer space."It's basic science that a compound rarely has the same properties as the components. You are claiming that sodium can't explode in water (which it does) because table salt (sodium chloride) doesn't. However, chlorine (the other component of sodium chloride) is a toxic green gas. Table salt is neither green nor toxic.
except for five 1ft squares
"And all the creatures that aren't :water are made of sodium. So they explode."
contain sodium, sure. table salt is sodium chloride, put some of that in the toilet and see if it goes boom.
where can we farm shards now?Arena.
no AI?where can we farm shards now?Arena.
Arena is AI.no AI?where can we farm shards now?Arena.
in the SoC thread, it was brought up that the SoC shard isn't very usable in aether focused decksmost aether cards arent particularly useable in aether focused decks.
most aether cards arent particularly useable in aether focused decks.To a point, I actually agree with this. Aether has 5 creatures, and 2 of them are immortal, which makes quintessence, fractal, and turquoise nymph weaker in monoaether. (though obviously fractal spiders/ball lightning and things like that are still possible) Mindgate also suffers somewhat in monoaether, though you can get pillars, obviously. Other than quintessence, though, which I've never used in monoaether, I think all aether cards have a place in at least some monoaether decks.
and one of them has 0 hp and you wouldnt want to use quint or the nymph on it either (in mono aether). and fractal drains your quanta so you couldnt cast spiders that turn. basically, an aether card being hard to use in monoaether is fully in the spirit of aether.most aether cards arent particularly useable in aether focused decks.To a point, I actually agree with this. Aether has 5 creatures, and 2 of them are immortal, which makes quintessence, fractal, and turquoise nymph weaker in monoaether.
About turquoise nymph, It's a good card in a mono aether, it rushes well and can lonely win matches(Higurashi trials deck), and you can use quantum towers with mindgates.most aether cards arent particularly useable in aether focused decks.To a point, I actually agree with this. Aether has 5 creatures, and 2 of them are immortal, which makes quintessence, fractal, and turquoise nymph weaker in monoaether. (though obviously fractal spiders/ball lightning and things like that are still possible) Mindgate also suffers somewhat in monoaether, though you can get pillars, obviously. Other than quintessence, though, which I've never used in monoaether, I think all aether cards have a place in at least some monoaether decks.
I'm really not sure about the quanta cap. 75 certainly is better than 50, but I really don't feel like one is necessary.i'm agree with that...because there are cards hoping for more quantas like fire bolt and drain life...more quanta, the better....
does the shard of readiness make Deja Vu use its effect twice too?It did the first few days it was in, but it doesn't anymore. It made an absolutely devastating OP deck until that change.
Still lets you clone the spawn of fate eggs though.This is true. When you do that, you always get the same hatched creature twice, or at least I have in every case.
awww...i hope i figure it out early...so i had tried it before they undo it...does the shard of readiness make Deja Vu use its effect twice too?It did the first few days it was in, but it doesn't anymore. It made an absolutely devastating OP deck until that change.
hmm... when Oty eats something with a poison counter, he gains a single counter.It's not depending on the poison counter. It depends on the passive skill Poisonous. You can see it by holding for a few seconds your mouse pointer over some cards, like scorpions, chrysaora, pufferfish.
Is this new or has it been implemented since the 1.29 release?
Its a question about the update, so it is pretty relevant. New cards will come in a new patch.hmm... when Oty eats something with a poison counter, he gains a single counter.It's not depending on the poison counter. It depends on the passive skill Poisonous. You can see it by holding for a few seconds your mouse pointer over some cards, like scorpions, chrysaora, pufferfish.
Is this new or has it been implemented since the 1.29 release?
In the future, if you're not sure, just ask things like this in the general section, because this thread is for patches and new versions, and when people see a new post here, they get excited thinking "yay, new cards!" and then they are disappointed since there are no real news!
It happened to me just now! :P
Very nice. Shard of sacrifice was too strong. I also just tried one game of pvp2, and won 172 electrum (not even EM) so that's definitely a lot higher than it was. That will hopefully make pvp more appealing. I don't think it will stop shard farming at all, though, but I'm not sure if it was even meant to.It fixes the problem of unoriginal decks, and although it makes it slightly into a popularity test that just inspires people to be creative. Besides, its not like it isn't still pure cold math in some degree. Ghostmare and Death Stall will still rule the roost.
I'm not sure how I feel about the arena rating system, since it changes things into more of a popularity contest, but I can see why it was done. I'll definitely give it a chance and see how it works out. As long as being highly ranked in the arena only gives a token amount of electrum plus a fattened ego, I'm okay with having it be an opinion-based system rather than hard mathematics.
so why would i ever thumbs up a deck that is not my own ?Why wouldn't you? You're basically giving the deck maker a small reward for being creative. Why give +rep on the forums?
chat is down btw.
I don't understand. Thumbs down does nothing; thumbs up doubles the rating gained by the deck.BRB, Learning to read!
For the record, I absolutely loathe the idea of turning competition into a popularity contest.It's not bad as a temporary fix, but if having a highly ranked arena deck ever means more in the future, it would need to be changed.
Because you get electrum, of course. It's weird only being able to rate decks you lose against though.so why would i ever thumbs up a deck that is not my own ?Why wouldn't you? You're basically giving the deck maker a small reward for being creative. Why give +rep on the forums?
chat is down btw.
And Chat is not down.
That doesn't solve the SoSa problem for the big two decks so far that use it.Too complicated.
Death Stall is... only death cards, possibly with water mark for And SPlat doesn't actually need to do anything once it gets its first hit in, so it doesn't care so much about those towers, although it'll hurt it slightly. However, this gave me an idea to actually balance it that could work, I would put it in the SoSa area but I 'just' posted there and I'm avoiding doubleposting.
Make it a Pump spell.
Base the hp cost on the amount of quanta you have upon playing it. Something like costing 80 hp as a base, but the more quanta absorbed the more the cost is reduced for that playing, down to a minimum of 20 or somesuch. A scaling effect would probably be best, meaning a 1:1 hp : quanta ratio until it goes down to 50 hp, then a 1:2 hp : quanta ratio from 50 down to 20. The ratios can be adjusted, my point is the system itself.
Death quanta :death won't be absorbed but will count as 'being' absorbed, to give death that extra benefit still. So with full 75 death quanta you get to use 28 Hp SoSa's. But you had to do work to get your Death quanta that high. Also, this means that Shard of Conscience becomes a counter to SoSa! (And even 'one' helps drastically)
The purpose of this is to make SoSa take actual effort in between uses to use, or have a high start-up effort requirement. The only issue is making heavy Control Rainbows with many Quantum Towers not gain the full benefit each time, since they have easy access to that sheer amount of quanta generation, but an additional formula can be put in to make a diminishing effect for each additional element thrown into the mix if that becomes an actual problem, long as it calculates Death as highest priority.
Most of that was talk about balance. Its actually just "Lower hp cost based on quanta when played", and the formula is about as complicated as the catapult one. 1:1 efficiency from 80 to 50, 1:2 efficiency from 50 to 20.That doesn't solve the SoSa problem for the big two decks so far that use it.Too complicated.
Death Stall is... only death cards, possibly with water mark for And SPlat doesn't actually need to do anything once it gets its first hit in, so it doesn't care so much about those towers, although it'll hurt it slightly. However, this gave me an idea to actually balance it that could work, I would put it in the SoSa area but I 'just' posted there and I'm avoiding doubleposting.
Make it a Pump spell.
Base the hp cost on the amount of quanta you have upon playing it. Something like costing 80 hp as a base, but the more quanta absorbed the more the cost is reduced for that playing, down to a minimum of 20 or somesuch. A scaling effect would probably be best, meaning a 1:1 hp : quanta ratio until it goes down to 50 hp, then a 1:2 hp : quanta ratio from 50 down to 20. The ratios can be adjusted, my point is the system itself.
Death quanta :death won't be absorbed but will count as 'being' absorbed, to give death that extra benefit still. So with full 75 death quanta you get to use 28 Hp SoSa's. But you had to do work to get your Death quanta that high. Also, this means that Shard of Conscience becomes a counter to SoSa! (And even 'one' helps drastically)
The purpose of this is to make SoSa take actual effort in between uses to use, or have a high start-up effort requirement. The only issue is making heavy Control Rainbows with many Quantum Towers not gain the full benefit each time, since they have easy access to that sheer amount of quanta generation, but an additional formula can be put in to make a diminishing effect for each additional element thrown into the mix if that becomes an actual problem, long as it calculates Death as highest priority.
The problem is the immortality itself. Its works against too much.
Just make it work similarly to how voodoo dolls operate but in reverse. Only if you survived the hit you get healed (would still be killable from a really strong creatures or powered up bolts.) And/Or enable heal, stoneskin, miracle to be cast on the opponent.
Well i lost against a deck in the arena.If you follow that rule you should thumbs up decks that you just lost to due to bad startinghand/draw too shouldnt you?
thumb up and i might play against him again.
thumb down and i make it harder to find in the arena.
In both cases i got 5 electrum.
I'd rate always thumb down, so next time i will get an easier deck!
You got my point!Well i lost against a deck in the arena.If you follow that rule you should thumbs up decks that you just lost to due to bad startinghand/draw too shouldnt you?
thumb up and i might play against him again.
thumb down and i make it harder to find in the arena.
In both cases i got 5 electrum.
I'd rate always thumb down, so next time i will get an easier deck!
Since the next time you should beat it given a normal draw.
Easier and better will be making this ability for two players, so You and Your opponent has got healing instead damage in 2 turns. Of course cost will be lower (maybe 8-10 HP). It is perfectly balanced against rush decks (this is a previous idea of SoS), and consuming all quantum disable OTK (then it will be OP).Most of that was talk about balance. Its actually just "Lower hp cost based on quanta when played", and the formula is about as complicated as the catapult one. 1:1 efficiency from 80 to 50, 1:2 efficiency from 50 to 20.That doesn't solve the SoSa problem for the big two decks so far that use it.Too complicated.
Death Stall is... only death cards, possibly with water mark for And SPlat doesn't actually need to do anything once it gets its first hit in, so it doesn't care so much about those towers, although it'll hurt it slightly. However, this gave me an idea to actually balance it that could work, I would put it in the SoSa area but I 'just' posted there and I'm avoiding doubleposting.
Make it a Pump spell.
Base the hp cost on the amount of quanta you have upon playing it. Something like costing 80 hp as a base, but the more quanta absorbed the more the cost is reduced for that playing, down to a minimum of 20 or somesuch. A scaling effect would probably be best, meaning a 1:1 hp : quanta ratio until it goes down to 50 hp, then a 1:2 hp : quanta ratio from 50 down to 20. The ratios can be adjusted, my point is the system itself.
Death quanta :death won't be absorbed but will count as 'being' absorbed, to give death that extra benefit still. So with full 75 death quanta you get to use 28 Hp SoSa's. But you had to do work to get your Death quanta that high. Also, this means that Shard of Conscience becomes a counter to SoSa! (And even 'one' helps drastically)
The purpose of this is to make SoSa take actual effort in between uses to use, or have a high start-up effort requirement. The only issue is making heavy Control Rainbows with many Quantum Towers not gain the full benefit each time, since they have easy access to that sheer amount of quanta generation, but an additional formula can be put in to make a diminishing effect for each additional element thrown into the mix if that becomes an actual problem, long as it calculates Death as highest priority.
The problem is the immortality itself. Its works against too much.
Just make it work similarly to how voodoo dolls operate but in reverse. Only if you survived the hit you get healed (would still be killable from a really strong creatures or powered up bolts.) And/Or enable heal, stoneskin, miracle to be cast on the opponent.
Although that "only heal if survived" is a good idea as well. And I agree with heal, and possibly stoneskin being elemental targeting, but I'm not sure about Miracle for the casting on your opponent.
Rating system.Its better how it is because then people could just thumbs up decks that they win against so they have a better chance to play against them. Allowing only on decks you lose against, encourages originality to be more of a factor.
Original decks play and lose. They don't get the thumbs-up they should get for originality :(
Original decks still have to win games, which might be hard :(
When a creature with vampire attacks for lethal damage, it now ends the game before adding the health that is gained from that creature's attack to your health total. I found this out when it cost me an elemental mastery. I'm not sure if this is an intended consequence, but it's obscure enough to post.Yeah, this made me sad.. :'(
I dont think its bad.Of course it is, since this doesn't follow the rules. A vampiric attack is well defined, so this is a bug that needs to be fixed, no matter if you think the consequences of said bug are fine. End of the story.
This is actually good. The game should be over instantly, the moment someone hits 0 hp, before any other effect happens.The healing effect of vampiric is NOT some other effect. It's one and the same: it takes away health from A and directs it to B all in one go.
No. It is a sequential effect in the coding. First the damage is dealt then the healing is delivered. These are separate actions in the code.*This is actually good. The game should be over instantly, the moment someone hits 0 hp, before any other effect happens.The healing effect of vampiric is NOT some other effect. It's one and the same: it takes away health from A and directs it to B all in one go.
Stop talking out of your ass, dear sir ;)
I also feel this change is somewhat annoying for EM purposes, IMHO. It's difficult to time permanent healing so that your weapon deals the killing blow if you're not planning ahead. InstaHealing spells are nice, but can only be found in 3 elements ( :light :life :darkness , although only darkness gets nerfed due to this) Overall, making electrum has become slower, though this could be justified if players were making too much Electrum from vampire decks. (Though that doesn't seem to be the case.)When a creature with vampire attacks for lethal damage, it now ends the game before adding the health that is gained from that creature's attack to your health total. I found this out when it cost me an elemental mastery. I'm not sure if this is an intended consequence, but it's obscure enough to post.Yeah, this made me sad.. :'(
Though I understand that this "change" is to fix few bugs (e.g. Anti-poison), I really hope that zanz could change this. EM is already quite hard to obtain and with this change, I feel that it would kill most if not all EM decks especially the fun EM decks like vampiric chimera.
I dont think its bad. Gives the incentive to use heal and :life / :light if you want your EMs.It's nice that Light and Life get more emphasis on their healing, but the change does slow down a few grinder decks' income such as Vader Saders. Said decks usually are best vs. AI3 or are stalls (forgive me if I'm wrong), and while it doesn't affect the actual game, it does slow down a (usually lower level) player's ability to gain Electrum.
It's not bad. The only deck this affects is the instatosis deck if you use a liquid shadow to get an EM after being brought down to like 20 hp or something. This is actually good. The game should be over instantly, the moment someone hits 0 hp, before any other effect happens.Thematically you could argue that Life Transfer occurs at the same time Life Drain does (It's the same energy, no? You're just transferring it from one "container" to another), so it could be fair to have healing occur before damage. And as I mentioned above, this deck affects more decks than just Instatosis.
People are always saying decks are being ruined. Well they are dead wrong. The thing you must do now is try out different strategies possibly changing some cards up if you want the exact same effect your deck had before. The decks can be played with the same cards as before, you just need to play differently. If you change cards, your strategy will change.Some decks are actually ruined, but most of these decks revolved around certain buggy or powerful concepts (Firestall, Cloak-based Anti-FG decks, Old Sundial decks, etc...) Chances are if it wasn't an AI screwup, altered decks may still function well with a few changes that don't affect the strategy of the deck, rather just the amount of cards. (It's still possible to make a good Firestall - they're just not metagame-breaking anymore).
I suspect that the interaction between Vampire and EMing the opponent is related to the Antimatter Poison bug now being fixed. I'm not sure if it's intended, but before anyone jumps to any conclusions about zanz just wanting to nerf Darkness EM decks, keep that in mind.And I thought that to be obvious ;).
No. It is a sequential effect in the coding. First the damage is dealt then the healing is delivered. These are separate actions in the code.*Well, obviously it's coded that way (for whatever reason... smells like bad design that needs to be refactored...). That's why it's broken now. But in the game(-world) itself beeing vampiric is clearly defined: it's not a one-directional thing. It is bidirectional, so we may aswell swap the argument: if you don't get healed, you couldn't and haven't done any damage. Doing damage and healing yourself is one and the same; thats the very definition of "vampirism".
1.293:Ooh, nice.
Simply removed the "details" and merged it with the "you lost" page.
So Vampire should heal itself and not you? The Keyword "Vampire" is a descriptive term used to approximate the effect Zanz intended.No. It is a sequential effect in the coding. First the damage is dealt then the healing is delivered. These are separate actions in the code.*Well, obviously it's coded that way (for whatever reason... smells like bad design that needs to be refactored...). That's why it's broken now. But in the game(-world) itself beeing vampiric is clearly defined: it's not a one-directional thing. It is bidirectional, so we may aswell swap the argument: if you don't get healed, you couldn't and haven't done any damage. Doing damage and healing yourself is one and the same; thats the very definition of "vampirism".
P.S. : In a computer program things never happen "at the same time".I'm pretty sure I've got more than one core over here, happily crunching some numbers - at the same time... ;)
1. deal damage & healThere should be simply no other action between the damage- and the heal-action from "vampirism", making them atomic in nature. First damage is applied, and whatever that damage amounted to is the amount the player gets healed instantly. Then the program may happily proceed (and maybe win the game...).
2. win
Is not an option.
doesnt matter how many cores you have, you cant excecute two distinct statements at once.P.S. : In a computer program things never happen "at the same time".I'm pretty sure I've got more than one core over here, happily crunching some numbers - at the same time... ;)1. deal damage & healThere should be simply no other action between the damage- and the heal-action from "vampirism", making them atomic in nature. First damage is applied, and whatever that damage amounted to is the amount the player gets healed instantly. Then the program may happily proceed (and maybe win the game...).
2. win
Is not an option.
It doesn't make much sense that the vampiric healing effect get's queued and then that queue doesn't get processed anymore in case you've already won. Rules need to be simple and consistent.
but you can do 2 events, then evaluate 2 conditions and finally make an action depending on both conditions. I like that vamp healing is done after damage. why? because it's only matter of getting EM and that's an outgame function (getting more electrum). This way, there will be more decks that focus on winning and not only getting EMs.Agreed. EM's are great, but as chapuz put it, its an "outgame function". It doesnt effect the battles in any way. The only thing it effects is the amount of electrum won. Simple solution? Do enough vampire damage BEFORE you kill your opponent to heal you up to an EM.
No, that's not "at the same time." You just think it happens at the same time because the computer does it faster than you can notice.P.S. : In a computer program things never happen "at the same time".I'm pretty sure I've got more than one core over here, happily crunching some numbers - at the same time... ;)
I'm pretty sure I've got more than one core over here, happily crunching some numbers - at the same time... ;)That is funny. Same time, lmao. Gimme the lamp you got the genie out of that gave you that computer.
1.293:Since coding-wise damage and healing can't be done at the same time, but this is the way it works thematically, i'd suggest to fix the Antimatter Poison bug differently, so that it doesn't affect the vampire ability: As it works now, any form of damage causes an immediate win, but how about applying this fact only to poison damage? This way poison damage would occur, then you would lose immediately and no antimatter'd creature would be able to heal you afterwards.
Simply removed the "details" page and merged it with the "you lost" page.
P.S. : In a computer program things never happen "at the same time".
Either
<New version>
1. deal damage
2. win
or
<Old version>
1. deal damage
2. heal
3. win
1. deal damage & heal
2. win
Is not an option.
So, just to get this straight, if a player loses to an arena deck and votes down, effectively nothing has changed compared to the same situation pre-1.292. If they vote up, though, the deck gains double rating and double :electrum, yes? (My platinum deck has 1 win but gained 20 :electrum and 14 rating; normally 1 win would be 10 :electrum and <12 rating).Yes. If everyone hates your deck, you are still no worse off electrum-wise than before. If even a few people like it, you're ahead. The only real difference is that well-liked decks will have a better chance of rising high on the leaderboard, but that's just for show, other than top ten electrum rewards, and even that is still fairly small.
That's Zanz punishing you for abusing the poor Bronze players when the shards came out.my score just went down for beating bronze as well. to 12764. is it still abusing if its the only league you can even get close to being able to get rares from? cuz i only have like a 20% winrate in silver.
its a good thing that score is largely irrelevant.aside from determining how many points you get to use on your arena deck.
so im confused on this rating system.. i have a 22/9 arena deck in gold. and it went from -12 rating to -72 rating? is that the thumbs down thing 72 times? i think that is bull.. my deck was a random dragon entropy deck. i just threw it together with no real strategy in mind other than put the dragons i was forced to use into play quickly. yet 22/9 is not in the top 500?I'm not sure what you mean by -12 to -72, or if it has to do with the rating system. When was it -12, and when was it -72? The closest thing I can think of to cause that is if losses are -30 in gold and you just lost 2 matches in a row. But I'm not seeing where the rating system comes into this. Are you saying that its "bull" that your deck got pushed out by less standard decks because they are creative?
yet 22/9 is not in the top 500?Why should it be top 500? Looking at the current gold leaderboards, there's a 23-7 deck currently 477th. 22-9 is not in the top 500 because there are over 500 decks that are doing better, I don't see what's the problem here.
Winning/Losing a game now instantly happens when a player has 0 HP (healing with AM should not revive a player anymore, to be tested)This hasn't been completely fixed as I discovered while testing an arena deck. The AI can set off an Unstable Gas to put me a 0 HP but if I have a Purify, it will heal me at that amount. If the AI has no weapon equipped then I survive another round.
How is that possible? Purify heals when the AI ends his turn and his creatures attack, etc. If it set off UG and put your HP to 0, you should lose before purify can do anything.Winning/Losing a game now instantly happens when a player has 0 HP (healing with AM should not revive a player anymore, to be tested)This hasn't been completely fixed as I discovered while testing an arena deck. The AI can set off an Unstable Gas to put me a 0 HP but if I have a Purify, it will heal me at that amount. If the AI has no weapon equipped then I survive another round.
ah I remember seeing that mentioned. And it involved doing the exact amount of damage, right?Wrong iirc.
The rating system seems off to me, you should be able to rate decks upon winning as well as losing, don't you agree? Besides stopping chronic winners from rating decks they feel deserve the bonus, the current system limits raters to those the deck to be rated has just beaten, a biased crew at best.Nope, if you were able to rate decks you win against, people will start creating farms. These farms will lose easily, but they stay in the arena because everyone will give it a thumbs up. And most of these "chronic winners" only give bonuses to new decks. :D
The farms would go out. This "Thumbs Up" would just halve the amount of rating lost, as thumbs up currently doubles the amount of rating gained.The rating system seems off to me, you should be able to rate decks upon winning as well as losing, don't you agree? Besides stopping chronic winners from rating decks they feel deserve the bonus, the current system limits raters to those the deck to be rated has just beaten, a biased crew at best.Nope, if you were able to rate decks you win against, people will start creating farms. These farms will lose easily, but they stay in the arena because everyone will give it a thumbs up. And most of these "chronic winners" only give bonuses to new decks. :D
This still makes farms stay longer than usual, which would be more evident in plat. Bad IMO.The farms would go out. This "Thumbs Up" would just halve the amount of rating lost, as thumbs up currently doubles the amount of rating gained.The rating system seems off to me, you should be able to rate decks upon winning as well as losing, don't you agree? Besides stopping chronic winners from rating decks they feel deserve the bonus, the current system limits raters to those the deck to be rated has just beaten, a biased crew at best.Nope, if you were able to rate decks you win against, people will start creating farms. These farms will lose easily, but they stay in the arena because everyone will give it a thumbs up. And most of these "chronic winners" only give bonuses to new decks. :D
Farms are bad how? I can see the line of reasoning with the Top 50 -- farms could literally stay up forever, and in addition were self farmable. But with number of decks in the arena, the odds of getting one are astronomically low and nobody really makes them since they want the extra cash, little though it is. Saying that farms would stay too long is definitely not a big enough problem to offset the benefits.This still makes farms stay longer than usual, which would be more evident in plat. Bad IMO.The farms would go out. This "Thumbs Up" would just halve the amount of rating lost, as thumbs up currently doubles the amount of rating gained.The rating system seems off to me, you should be able to rate decks upon winning as well as losing, don't you agree? Besides stopping chronic winners from rating decks they feel deserve the bonus, the current system limits raters to those the deck to be rated has just beaten, a biased crew at best.Nope, if you were able to rate decks you win against, people will start creating farms. These farms will lose easily, but they stay in the arena because everyone will give it a thumbs up. And most of these "chronic winners" only give bonuses to new decks. :D
IMO, original decks that win deserve a reward (thumbs up rating), but everyone can make an original deck that loses, so there's no point rating them.Original decks have lower win-rates than unoriginal decks. They don't deserve to go out after two loses though.
That's not a given. If you ask me, decks that lose deserve to go out regardless of how original they are.IMO, original decks that win deserve a reward (thumbs up rating), but everyone can make an original deck that loses, so there's no point rating them.Original decks have lower win-rates than unoriginal decks. They don't deserve to go out after two loses though.
Here's an example:That's not a given. If you ask me, decks that lose deserve to go out regardless of how original they are.IMO, original decks that win deserve a reward (thumbs up rating), but everyone can make an original deck that loses, so there's no point rating them.Original decks have lower win-rates than unoriginal decks. They don't deserve to go out after two loses though.
2 months has passed..*leaves*You can not leave Napalm: Elements needs you; besides, if you leave you are going to miss the creation of the next fire card and that is the first item in my "to do" list after I am done with the shards.
A great Fire card takes longer than 2 months especially since Sept was in the middle of the previous set being added and beta tested.2 months has passed..*leaves*You can not leave Napalm: Elements needs you; besides, if you leave you are going to miss the creation of the next fire card and that is the first item in my "to do" list after I am done with the shards.
There is no progress yet...
*leaves*
Here's an example:Person 1 put up a deck that didn't lose. Person 2 put up a deck that lost half its games. I don't see a problem here.
Person 1 puts up a Sosa-poison-stall.
It does not lose.
Person 2 puts up an original deck.
It has a 50% win-rate.
Person 2 has done something much more impressive than Person 1, yet goes out after only a few games.
Is this fair?
Agreed.Here's an example:Person 1 put up a deck that didn't lose. Person 2 put up a deck that lost half its games. I don't see a problem here.
Person 1 puts up a Sosa-poison-stall.
It does not lose.
Person 2 puts up an original deck.
It has a 50% win-rate.
Person 2 has done something much more impressive than Person 1, yet goes out after only a few games.
Is this fair?
Ah... I understand your view now... Sorry...The difficulty is a secondary thing. As long as the arena works as a competition for the decks, there should be clear rules on how your deck is scored. Right now there's a straightforward system for rewarding wins and punishing losses, and a stupid, fuzzy adjustment thing that changes your score based on what the people who played against your deck felt like.
Just to clarify: Do you think that the high difficulty of arena is more important than the fun factor and that it isn't how impressive the achievment is but how difficult the arena is?
Patience, my son. Shard of Patience, that is.But hmm... I don't understand this. Why we haven't more and often new cards? Section "Card Ideas and Art" is full of fantastic new cards. I know that some of them are OP, unbalanced etc. But a lot of them are fantastic. It is online game, and there is no problem to putting often new cards. We should have new card every week. Now game is boring... Especially for players, which don't speak English and didn't use board. What is more, we still have better elements ( :fire :entropy :darkness and :rainbow) than rest (:earth :air :light :water)
The remaining shards will be released in the next version, I believe. It could take weeks or months before they become available (they'll probably start appearing on the In Development page fairly soonish though).
First of all, there is exactly one person working on the game. And I'm pretty sure elementsthegame is not his job, just a side project. Second, coding is way more difficult and annoying than you're making it out to be. Those "simple" abilities are not so simple to make work correctly without bugs, glitches, etc. happening. Unless you're saying to make a card that's basically identical to something already in the game, in which case I ask, how would that make things less boring? In fact, that would make things more boring since now all the elements can do the same thing.Patience, my son. Shard of Patience, that is.But hmm... I don't understand this. Why we haven't more and often new cards? Section "Card Ideas and Art" is full of fantastic new cards. I know that some of them are OP, unbalanced etc. But a lot of them are fantastic. It is online game, and there is no problem to putting often new cards. We should have new card every week. Now game is boring... Especially for players, which don't speak English and didn't use board. What is more, we still have better elements ( :fire :entropy :darkness and :rainbow) than rest (:earth :air :light :water)
The remaining shards will be released in the next version, I believe. It could take weeks or months before they become available (they'll probably start appearing on the In Development page fairly soonish though).
I know, the biggest problem is probably with coding in AI games, because only one person do it. Ok, but I don't want to tell that all cards must have new ability. We can put a lot of new cards with simple and knowing abilities.
I don't have a grudge against Zanz, because he made perfect work here. I think that AI works nearly perfectly. But this game has got bigger potential. Look on Tournaments, only 30-50 people play every Saturday. We need more cards, quests, helping for weaker players (maybe actions for them like sale for them on Christmas?). This game can be more popular than is today.First of all, there is exactly one person working on the game. And I'm pretty sure elementsthegame is not his job, just a side project. Second, coding is way more difficult and annoying than you're making it out to be. Those "simple" abilities are not so simple to make work correctly without bugs, glitches, etc. happening. Unless you're saying to make a card that's basically identical to something already in the game, in which case I ask, how would that make things less boring? In fact, that would make things more boring since now all the elements can do the same thing.Patience, my son. Shard of Patience, that is.But hmm... I don't understand this. Why we haven't more and often new cards? Section "Card Ideas and Art" is full of fantastic new cards. I know that some of them are OP, unbalanced etc. But a lot of them are fantastic. It is online game, and there is no problem to putting often new cards. We should have new card every week. Now game is boring... Especially for players, which don't speak English and didn't use board. What is more, we still have better elements ( :fire :entropy :darkness and :rainbow) than rest (:earth :air :light :water)
The remaining shards will be released in the next version, I believe. It could take weeks or months before they become available (they'll probably start appearing on the In Development page fairly soonish though).
I know, the biggest problem is probably with coding in AI games, because only one person do it. Ok, but I don't want to tell that all cards must have new ability. We can put a lot of new cards with simple and knowing abilities.
Wall of text
First of all, there is exactly one person working on the game.Seriously, we can't demand that all those things will be done in a short period of time. Have you ever tried programming a game, even a really simple one? It's hard to do alone. In arena, that's currently being somewhat fixed through rating, and some game balancing will slowly tone that down and allow more decks variety in the meta. And I disagree on the part where AI works nearly perfectly. It's very efficient in terms of the number of checks that it has to do, but cannot compete very well against a human.
So maybe someone should help Zanz in programming, to make this game more popular and better. It would be fine to see more players, more strategies, more emotions and suprise. Card Ideas are worth to promote new cards. A lot of them can make game more interesting and unpredictable. It would be fine to see new tactics in Arena...Wall of textFirst of all, there is exactly one person working on the game.Seriously, we can't demand that all those things will be done in a short period of time. Have you ever tried programming a game, even a really simple one? It's hard to do alone. In arena, that's currently being somewhat fixed through rating, and some game balancing will slowly tone that down and allow more decks variety in the meta. And I disagree on the part where AI works nearly perfectly. It's very efficient in terms of the number of checks that it has to do, but cannot compete very well against a human.
the problem is that he (presumably) doesn't want any help. Note that Elements is his portfolio project, so having another developer somewhat defeats the purpose of that.I didn't know this. I thought that problem is in money. So when he didn't want build up game with help then my opinion can be deleted ;) It will be good for game to giving more innovations and attractions... But ok, there was no discuss ;)
Elements needs to be rewritten completely anyway if it want's to be popular in the near future.Way to try convincing the developer to stop working on the game we play.
Flash is dying. And if elements doesn't run on mobile devices, other games will be played instead. Simple as that.
I'm not quite sure I'd still put much effort into this project. Creating a new, awesome game from scratch based on a better technology seems to be more fun (and will look good in a portfolio too).
Elements needs to be rewritten completely anyway if it want's to be popular in the near future.Weeeeell i wholeheartedly disagree with you. Many sites who use flash games as only topic receive a lot of views & use. If flash was becoming less interesting, there'd be a decrease in activity on those, which ain't happenning.
Flash is dying. And if elements doesn't run on mobile devices, other games will be played instead. Simple as that.
I'm not quite sure I'd still put much effort into this project. Creating a new, awesome game from scratch based on a better technology seems to be more fun (and will look good in a portfolio too).
Flash isn't dying, but I agree the game could use a rewrite. You can't seriously think this game is well made from a technical perspective. Now whether this is a problem is subjective and like Jenkar said, it is what it is. Personally I can live with its faults as long as I avoid pvp and enjoy the game as a casual thing akin to Bejeweled or something, but in its current form there's no way I'd consider playing it competitively.There's a large community of elements players who disagree and think the game is great. That doesn't mean there is not scope to improve it, but generalised comments like this are simply not helpful. If you can identify specific problems or, even better, solutions to those problems, then you have something worth saying. Otherwise, bland generalisations are no better than hot air.
About Flash: i understood that Adobe is working to make Adobe Flash produce HTML5 files instead of SWF files. I'm not sure about that, but it seems reasonable that Adobe wouldn't let down a large community of people that makes games, flash animations, cartoons, etc.Flash isn't dying, but I agree the game could use a rewrite. You can't seriously think this game is well made from a technical perspective. Now whether this is a problem is subjective and like Jenkar said, it is what it is. Personally I can live with its faults as long as I avoid pvp and enjoy the game as a casual thing akin to Bejeweled or something, but in its current form there's no way I'd consider playing it competitively.There's a large community of elements players who disagree and think the game is great. That doesn't mean there is not scope to improve it, but generalised comments like this are simply not helpful. If you can identify specific problems or, even better, solutions to those problems, then you have something worth saying. Otherwise, bland generalisations are no better than hot air.
On the subject of Flash. There are signs that adobe will cease to support the platform over time. Whether an open-source project will fill that void or whether an alternative platform will emerge supreme remains to be seen. For the moment, flash is a reasonable choice of platform and given the large amount of developer time that has been dedicated to it already for elements there's certainly no rush to change. If elements is still to be around in 5 to 10 years, however, a change of platform might need to be considered if the demise of flash really transpires. If that is the case, then offers of help to transport elements to a new platform will be much more useful and interesting than simple 'I wouldn't have done it on flash' type comments.
"There's a large community of elements players who disagree and think the game is great." Hurrrrrr durrrrrr. I specifically said "from a technically perspective" and even went on to say it's still an enjoyable game. Do you think it's "great", for example, that player vs player occasionally craps out and there's no way to tell whether there really was a glitch or if the opponent just decided to quit a losing game? Also you say "a large community of elements players" disagree, meaning they think it's a great game from a technical perspective - how can you be sure all of them really think that, and don't just like the game despite its problems?Flash isn't dying, but I agree the game could use a rewrite. You can't seriously think this game is well made from a technical perspective. Now whether this is a problem is subjective and like Jenkar said, it is what it is. Personally I can live with its faults as long as I avoid pvp and enjoy the game as a casual thing akin to Bejeweled or something, but in its current form there's no way I'd consider playing it competitively.There's a large community of elements players who disagree and think the game is great. That doesn't mean there is not scope to improve it, but generalised comments like this are simply not helpful. If you can identify specific problems or, even better, solutions to those problems, then you have something worth saying. Otherwise, bland generalisations are no better than hot air.
On the subject of Flash. There are signs that adobe will cease to support the platform over time. Whether an open-source project will fill that void or whether an alternative platform will emerge supreme remains to be seen. For the moment, flash is a reasonable choice of platform and given the large amount of developer time that has been dedicated to it already for elements there's certainly no rush to change. If elements is still to be around in 5 to 10 years, however, a change of platform might need to be considered if the demise of flash really transpires. If that is the case, then offers of help to transport elements to a new platform will be much more useful and interesting than simple 'I wouldn't have done it on flash' type comments.
Just started playing around with Sose's and they're boss! lol Must have them upped though....they're great in rainbows. It's nice when Sose gives you the perfect card to use in a situation that you don't have the right card for....Yep, it's always nice when SoSe gives you purify when you have over twenty poison counters.
Seems to be about 150 for a normal win in PvP2 and 200 for an EM win.Yea maybe it a +30-50 bonus or so cause i've been getting ~170-180 for EM wins and ~140-150 for normal wins and it varies based on the score difference.
Base money gain from arena increased to:I highly approve.
Bronze:4
Silver:6
Gold:9
Platinum:12
Effect immediate.
Base money gain from arena increased to:What were they before?
Bronze:4
Silver:6
Gold:9
Platinum:12
Effect immediate.