Elements 1.29

[Kamietsu]

I think it would be a little fun, if whatever mark you have, it would increase your quanta pool by 10 or something. Sure, that would mean Fire gets more quanta to play with, but it would also be a bit fun for the creativity side of things, especially for new cards in the future.

[kirchj33]

It doesn't nerf firestall. Like, at all. A normal Firestall will still be very strong against a majority of decks. However, if you notice, it does introduce a whole new category of counters to Firestall: decks with massive healing, some PC, and hp-increasing cards. Like Shard of Divinity. You can no longer commit yourself to only Bolts and Fahrenheit for offense, because if you do, then your damage cap is not so high, and even moderate constant healing will outstall you, eventually. I can see a lot more Stall Faster-like decks (phoenixes coupled with high quanta flow, Fahrenheit and Bolts is a powerful all-around deck) but Stall Faster is not as strong as Firestall, in general, and is more prone to abuses. Heck, The Immortal is going to be considered a hard-counter to firestall...
I agree a rework of Stone Skin is needed. See my previous posts.

Yep.  I feel like a reduction in fire bolt's damage may have been a better short term solution, but as zanz mentioned, it sounds like there's a bigger long term plan that needs a cap.
 

I don't quite understand what you consider a stall, then, if you exclude "decks with a lot of shields and CC"...

Meh.  I'd call those a form of 'control' decks, but everyone has their own definitions.

[bucky1andonly]

fire lance + fahrenheit + 50 fire quanta cap

1st lance does 18 dmg
the rest all do 15 dmg = 75 dmg total
you are now at 44 fire quanta, so fahrenheit deals 13 dmg, but most likely you have at least 6 towers out, so that brings it back up to 15 dmg

grand total is 108 dmg



fire bolt + unupped fahrenheit + 50 fire quanta cap

1st bolt does 18 dmg
2nd - 4th does 15 dmg
5th and 6th do 12 dmg
you are now at 32 fire quanta, so fahrenheit deals 11 dmg, but most likely you have at least 3 pillars out, so that brings it up to 12 dmg

grand total is 99 dmg


These total damages mean nothing at all.  They would only happen if you played your fahrenheit ON THE TURN that you played all 6 bolts/lances.  So obviously playing a fahrenheit and having it deal damage will make it that much easier to kill with the bolts/lances.

Therefore, the only thing that changes, and not by much, is the use of SoG in firestalls.  Do you use a life mark?  Or do you go with lesser healing and a fire mark?
Firestall lives, muahahahahahahahaha!!!!

[Mithcairion]

If for someone nerfing StoneSkin is a problem (for me it is still powerful card) we can easily add 50% more HP when Mark is Earth. Then SS still will be with 75HP.
But I don't think that 50HP is too low. This card cost only 1 and can give half HP status. Heal cost 2 and give max 20. So SS is still powerful.

How long does it take you to accumulate 50 quanta vs. 2 quanta?

[dragonsdemesne]

@bucky: That's okay if firestall lives.  Immorush is a bigger problem, IMO, and the immolation/deflagration nerfs help there.

@kamietsu: That's a cool idea about having the mark modify your quanta cap.  I don't think 50 will be a very significant quanta cap for most decks, though, so maybe a slightly different effect based on mark might be better.  I like the idea about the mark changing things up a bit that way.

@atico: I suppose stoneskin isn't too bad at healing 50hp.  It's just that most of the time, it's going to heal much less, which is why it's balanced; if you want a really big hp gain, you have to keep it around as a dead card for a very long time first.

@mormegil: Pretty much agree with all that, though I think RoL/Hope might suffer somewhat from the 50 quanta cap, as it won't be able to build up quanta for fractaling dragons/archangels as easily.  I never played this deck much, after finding out it didn't make electrum as fast as my other decks, so I'm not sure if the 50 quanta cap will make a big difference on that deck or not.

The only decks that will be hurt significantly by the 50 quanta cap are those that rely on stockpiling a VERY large amount of quanta.  If you can get up to the 50 quanta cap, you probably have a lot of pillars/pends already out, and you won't be able to spend it fast enough.  Decks based on Fire/Ice Bolts/Lances, Drain/Siphon Life, Stoneskin, Fractal, and Dissipation Shield/Field are about the only ones I can think of that will be weakened in any significant way by this, and even there, it will be mostly in PvE; in PvP, 50 quanta is a lot rarer.

[Antagon]

the immolation-nerv is completely unnecessary, cause ash now also 0/5.

[Higurashi]

*leaves*

You can not leave Napalm: Elements needs you; besides,  if you leave you are going to miss the creation of the next fire card and that is the first item in my "to do" list after I am done with the shards.

A new Fire card? I suppose they do have few cards compared to other elements ... will Aether be next?

I hope so. We got Mindgate fairly recently, but we're still at 15 cards along with Fire (the lowest amount of cards in any element).

I like the changes for being relatively drastic. Fire is still the most offensively powerful in Beta, so the changes have mostly just reduced the gap between other elements. Enabling more strategic options in the future through quanta pool increase is a nice touch.

Edit: I'm sad my Fractal Ball Lightnings with SoP has been destroyed though.. it improved Aether's ability to rush, but not too much. The strategies +1/+1 enabled aren't anywhere near overpowered, but very fun and different :>

[EmeraldTiger]

I say all the nerfs to at one time makes the people that like the element feel like they are being attacked personally.

[RavingRabbid]

I like the nerfs to fire.
(Whatever, if people are hating them so much, it means they were needed).

I'm just sad my Ice Bolt otks are going to disappear, without giving an effective nerf to Firestall.
/goes ridin' Puffah fishes/

[SnoWeb]

I think it would be a little fun, if whatever mark you have, it would increase your quanta pool by 10 or something. Sure, that would mean Fire gets more quanta to play with, but it would also be a bit fun for the creativity side of things, especially for new cards in the future.

This is indeed a good idea. I would do a 40 (non-mark) + 50 (mark) cap. This would add some more strategy to the fire stall construct. Having a life mark (for SoG) or a light mark (for sanctuary) would lower the maximal strength of Fahrenheit.

[ZephyrPhantom]

Aww, Fire and SoGs got nerfed more....
SoR is basically a combination of it's two oldest forms now.
Not sure if I'm rolling too well with the Divinity change. It does cost other, but I liked the older beta version when it had a little more impact off-element.
SoP is fair enough - was so widely synergistic that cutting it down a bit really wasn't the end of the world. Still works well with Scorps.
As for the quanta cap:

I think it would be a little fun, if whatever mark you have, it would increase your quanta pool by 10 or something. Sure, that would mean Fire gets more quanta to play with, but it would also be a bit fun for the creativity side of things, especially for new cards in the future.

This is indeed a good idea. I would do a 40 (non-mark) + 50 (mark) cap. This would add some more strategy to the fire stall construct. Having a life mark (for SoG) or a light mark (for sanctuary) would lower the maximal strength of Fahrenheit.

If the cap really has to stay, I agree with Snoweb's suggestion (maybe even 50 + 50) - it gives more strength to mono-bolt stalls and allows the player to use off-element boltstalls effectively without feeling really limited by this new cap with the right cards.  It's also another variable that can used by Card Designers in their Ideas .

If anything, I would just make the cap a solid 100 or have no cap at all (do all the bolt spells have to suffer this much just because of Firestall?), and lower Fire Bolt's damage to 2 and give it a special effect like burn counters - but I'll keep playing with it for now.

[EmeraldTiger]

Maybe we can get cards that change quanta caps.