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Offline Bloodshadow

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Re: Elements 1.21 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4066.msg44128#msg44128
« Reply #144 on: March 27, 2010, 12:12:17 am »
Quote
Larger creatures are less able to swim
Is a whale less able to swim than a tiger? They're both mammals.

Quote
drown faster
Not really. Being large in size doesn't make you drown faster. Drowning will kill you because it deprives your brain of oxygen; there is no proof that smaller creatures can survive without oxygen for a longer period of time.
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Offline Essence

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Re: Elements 1.21 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4066.msg44145#msg44145
« Reply #145 on: March 27, 2010, 12:54:39 am »
whales = cheap shot.  Lame.

And drowning faster has nothing to do with hypoxia, it has everything to do with floating less and thus being unable to inhale sooner.  Generally, larger creatures require more muscle mass (and correspondingly less fat) thanks to the cubing effect that size has on weight versus surface area -- and the more muscular you are, the less you float -- and thus the faster you drown.
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Offline Bloodshadow

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Re: Elements 1.21 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4066.msg44149#msg44149
« Reply #146 on: March 27, 2010, 01:12:02 am »
But the larger creatures have more HP, and thus can survive longer...
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Offline Demagog

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Re: Elements 1.21 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4066.msg44150#msg44150
« Reply #147 on: March 27, 2010, 01:13:12 am »
I think immortals should die, or at least be removed from the field. Yall are all thinking about a flood when the water is just sitting there. At the start of a flood, especially flash floods (which this card would be), the water carries everything away. Fish could swim against the current because they are made for that kind of stuff. Nothing else can fight the current.

Air creatures and creatures with wings should die as well. They'd have nowhere to land.

I was thinking plants might live because they can survive floods, but it makes more sense to get rid of them since they can't launch an attack from deep underwater.

This card is very open to interpretation, so I suggest keeping it simple. Water cards only. Otherwise, every time a new creature is added, you'd have to program it to be affected by this card or not.

Offline yaladilae

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Re: Elements 1.21 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4066.msg44154#msg44154
« Reply #148 on: March 27, 2010, 01:24:59 am »
I strictly disagree about not killing instantly.  Larger creatures are less able to swim, and thus drown faster.

And on second thought, I'm changing my mind about :air creatures, too.  All Dragons are shown with wings, but they're going to die regardless.  It's more consistent to just have all non-:water, non-Immaterial creatures die.
HAHAHAHA

I bet massive dragon is big enough to walk at the bottom of the sea and have its head outside the water

What about things that fly, why would air creature go for a swim (and die)

Offline Bloodshadow

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Re: Elements 1.21 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4066.msg44158#msg44158
« Reply #149 on: March 27, 2010, 01:49:37 am »
Immortal creatures shouldn't be affected. They're in another dimension, therefore they don't drown in this dimension's water.
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Offline BluePriest

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Re: Elements 1.21 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4066.msg44163#msg44163
« Reply #150 on: March 27, 2010, 02:16:21 am »
Immortal creatures shouldn't be affected. They're in another dimension, therefore they don't drown in this dimension's water.
But they still have to come back to this dimension to fight. Therefor, they would appear and drown. Same way with the Shields, they have to come back to the diminsion to fight, therefore they are effected by them.
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Re: Elements 1.21 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4066.msg44170#msg44170
« Reply #151 on: March 27, 2010, 02:59:21 am »
Sure they have to come back into the dimension to attack (hence why thorn and fire shield work on them) but they go back right away, so they can simply hold their breathe or w/e.

It shouldnt effect them.

Offline Bloodshadow

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Re: Elements 1.21 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4066.msg44178#msg44178
« Reply #152 on: March 27, 2010, 03:26:18 am »
You and your opponent are not affected by Flood, right? When the Immortal creature comes out of the other dimension to attack you, it leaves the field and goes to the place where you're staying at. That's why the creature is affected by your shield. But there is no flood in the player-area, so Immortal creatures should not be affected by Flood; if they are, then both players should be affected by it, too.

And who thinks Flood should deal damage instead of insta-kill?
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Re: Elements 1.21 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4066.msg44196#msg44196
« Reply #153 on: March 27, 2010, 04:10:48 am »
i agree that flood should deal damage instead of insta-kill.

Offline BluePriest

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Re: Elements 1.21 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4066.msg44213#msg44213
« Reply #154 on: March 27, 2010, 05:06:43 am »
hmmm... I suppose you do have a point there. Id say this. If it effected you and your opponent, then immaterials should be targeted, but if it effects just youe OP, then they shouldnt be. This is not based off of the logic of anything other than my preference on how I consider it to attempt to stay a little balanced. I like the insta kill though, thats just a preference. 1 attack then insta kill. and maybe something to the effect of monsters >10 HP arent effected, since such large monsters should be able to stanc a flood. It would seem sorta pathetic the collosal dragon being killed by a flood.
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Offline Xinef

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Re: Elements 1.21 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4066.msg44311#msg44311
« Reply #155 on: March 27, 2010, 12:50:21 pm »
I like Bloodshadows idea to give it a time counter you can pump up with 3 :water.

Also, in my opinion burrowed should be killed instantly, because they need air to breathe, but they can't swim.

Immaterial/Ethereal/Immortal... probably should be unaffected - they can shift out of the flooded plane to avoid drowning and I agree that elementals are 'outside' the flood (or else non-water elementals should drown :P ), so immaterials should be able to attack.
Also game-wise it allows for more interesting battles - right now quint seems more useful than anubis, but this way anubis would get a boost (becoming a kind of counter to flood), but also quinting your fallen druid (if he happens to come when you already have 7 creatures) then trying to mutate skeletons/or/whatever/you/mutate until you get a :water or :air or immortal mutant would make it more interesting ;)

:air should be immune to flood, because most air creatures do not need to land at all, they can feed of fish/whatever-food-is-floating and they can sleep while flying... and anyway I would say a battle of elementals (metaphorically) lasts probably a few hours, not days or months, and I imagine flood more like a tsunami, a short event, maybe a while longer than a rain of fire, but not lasting days or weeks.
The problem is there is no 'flying' status or ability in elements, and dragons indeed have wings, but it gives them no advantage, but I guess defining flying creatures as :air ones probably makes the most sense in simplicity and game balance.

And I am not sure if bigger creatures drown faster or slower, but as far as I guess, most creatures have a density similar to water, so no matter how big they are, they would be able to float, at least holding their head above water. At least in case of animals, bigger ones are equally capable of swimming as small ones (a horse can swim as good as a dog or a mouse, also some big dinosaurs were probably able to swim, and I am not talking about plesiosaurs), so in my opinion size does not matter... more important is if a creature is able to act normally when swimming, or can float, but without much control (so is washed away by the flood), or is indeed so incapable of swimming it drowns.
and a massive dragon would probably drown straight away due to his density being probably higher than average ;)
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