Elements 1.17

[AiBerry]

It adds an interesting dynamic to the game because you can't congeal that elite otyugh, but your permafrost shield might freeze it. Your shield's really do shield you a lot!

It's only fireshield. Not permafrost, not procastrination.

Yes I know. I was implying if all shield effects were allowed to affect immortal/burrowed creatures, as I had mentioned in the rest of my post.

[Jangoo]

EVERY shield effect (not just damage deduction) should affect immortals as well, so permafrost shield's freezing chance, fog shield's chance to miss, weight shield, procrastination, etc. Which would completely kill half the reason behind immortality in the first place.

Well, actually ALL the shields have ALWAYS worked on Immortals + Burrowed except:

Fireshield, Procrastination and Permafrost because the "hit"/alter the creature.

So we dont have to talk about any shield there is but these three.

[Daxx]

I for one am in favour of the change. Firewall hitting immaterial creatures makes the shield a serious consideration (whereas before you'd only see it in the rare mono-fire control decks). Also, I like the idea of immaterial creatures having a counter of some kind (even if it's just ticking off health once a turn).

[Bloodshadow]

If you include a Fire Shield, you would absolutely destroy Divine Glory. His creatures only have 1 HP.

[philipapw]

I think this is good,because it gives a counter to mono aether decks which are quite powerful. Aether is arguebly one of the strongest elements.

[AiBerry]

In the example of taking out Mono-Aether, it would cost what, 60hp to take out a single elite phase dragon? And though I'm not experienced with the deck, I'm betting aether can whip out more than one of those at a time, or stick in some elite immortals/sparks/lobotomizer or something. So unless you're made of shards and miracles, I really don't think fire buckler is going to help you much... >>

It's effectively paying HP to get rid of immortal creatures, (creature's attack)*(creature's defense), at best.

[Essence]

Apparently now, to prevent Fire Shield from utterly dominating Divine Glory, Animated Morning Stars/Glories(?) are 7/7 and (I'm guessing) 8/7, respectively.

Ouch.  I guess that's it for the potential uses of Fire Buckler.

[AiBerry]

Apparently now, to prevent Fire Shield from utterly dominating Divine Glory, Animated Morning Stars/Glories(?) are 7/7 and (I'm guessing) 8/7, respectively.

Ouch.  I guess that's it for the potential uses of Fire Buckler.

... That's just wonderful news ... If we're seriously trying to find a way to deal with immortal creatures, why don't we come up with something that's actually viable?

Or is the firewall modification targetted at quintessenced/burrowed creatures? It would kill a druid and maybe an FFQ (assuming you didn't get firefly spammed first) but not an Otyugh without some sacrifice, which would be my biggest problem. It might be useful to get rid of a burrowed Shrieker, but in PVP you could simply unburrow said shrieker and do 50 damage...

[Amilir]

Apparently now, to prevent Fire Shield from utterly dominating Divine Glory, Animated Morning Stars/Glories(?) are 7/7 and (I'm guessing) 8/7, respectively.

Ouch.  I guess that's it for the potential uses of Fire Buckler.

Morning Star was always 7/7, Morning Glory is still 8/1...

[Daxx]

Bear in mind that before this, the 8/1 Morning Glory had the advantage that it could fit under Gravity Shields.

[philipapw]

There are any number of ways to gain life. Bonds are good if you have a fair amount of creatures and will keep u alive if ur using rainbow-> boneyard, otuyk bond.

[hellkaiser]

people are quick to jump on the "well by definition aether are immortal and etc" bandwagon completely throwing ALL notions of what's BALANCED and fair out the window

there is apart from firewall NOTHING that can target an aether creature or NOW one which has been quintessenced

does this seem fair? so i can only stare at your creature while you pound away at me with it laughing?

the problem is simple

the notion of non targetable is a great thing but with mono aether they take it TOO far

even area of effect cards which don't target single creatures do not work on aether cards and THIS is what makes them stupidly dangerous

if field wide cards like firestorm were to to affect them it would balance it as it is though firewall won't be much of a threat to mono aether and yet straight away everyone jumps in to defend the obviously broken ability of immortality which is now more widespread with cards like quintessence

honestly everything should have a viable counter and immortality and burrowing are two strategies that simply don't

burrowing at least though has it's costs and the fact it can be stopped immortality however is still overpowered in it's own rights