Elements 1.17

[Sigh]

I WOULD agree with that, but I think that there still might be a lelvel above the FGs, and that would be the REAL gods. Or something. But that would have to come later, when mono decks for all of the elements are viable.

[Essence]

Right, and at that time, the FGs can be downgraded if necessary.   That's not a good reason to make them easier now.

[CB!]

Kinda going back to the fireshield/immaterial creature arguments.  How about instead of fireshield hitting immaterial creatures, immaterial creatures can target other immaterial creatures?  Like an immaterial otyugh could chomp a flying morning star? or an immaterial maxwell demon could paradox an elite phase dragon?  Could expand it to permanents as well.  Enchant artifact on an eagle eye could shoot immaterial creatures, etc.  Any thoughts?

[Essence]

Makes sense.  I like it.  BUT only on the condition that immaterial creatures/permanents then cannot affect material ones.

:p

[CB!]

Yeah, I thought about that, but it would take away from immaterial creatures.  If the change to the fire shield was mainly to handle immaterial creatures (due to the popularity of quintessence), then this seems like a better way to handle immaterial creatures, to me anyway.  Maybe in reality it won't play out the way it does in my head, though...

[cyberrico]

Winning percentage has nothing to do with what I am saying.  I win plenty.  That's not the point.  Even if I were losing less than 50% it would still be equitable to farm FGs.  Not that I even need to farm.  I have everything and then some.  I want the FGs to be harder than they are now because as it stands the AI is really weak.

I'm not going to waste my fingers on explaining my point again because it is clear that those who have Zanz's ear just want to copy and paste the whole "It's not supposed to be easy" statement repeatedly.

[Essence]

Well, rico, you're the only one saying they should be harder TBOMK.  Maybe that explains why we're responding to all of the OTHER people, and not the lone voice?

[mdgreek]

It makes sense from a technical standpoint that Fire Shield knocks off Immaterial and Burrowing, since the shield does not need to attack (target) a creature, it is a response to being attacked itself.

Whether it is "fair" or not is a different argument.

But on the same lines, fire storm should also hurt them since it is not a "targetable" attack, it simply blankets a field with raining fire.

Just a thought.

[becarem]

I am glad that something can finally be done against immaterial creatures.  However, I see no real reason that time's procrastination shield should not apply against the "immaterial" status effect, when dark mantle, fog shield and now fire shield can.  Stalling an invincible creature seems a far more reasonable response than killing it by fire.

[Essence]

Zanz has said that he's working on programming it so that ALL shield effects, including Time and Water, will work on Immaterial creatures.  I think it's brilliant.

[jmizzle7]

I agree that making all shields affect immaterial creatures is exactly what needs to happen. Of course, how would we deal with the fact that Quintessence completely removes frozen status, but wouldn't make the creature immune to the status?

[Essence]

Well, clearly if you're stuck in a block of ice, being Immaterial lets you get out - -but if a shield catches you already immaterial, it freezes you in ethereal ice, and then you're screwed.