Elements the Game Forum - Free Online Fantasy Card Game
News and Announcements => Patch Notes and Development News => Topic started by: zanzarino on December 22, 2009, 08:01:43 pm
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Elements 1.15 is about to go live:
New cards:
Stoneskin
Adrenaline
... more cards are ready and will become available soon.
Bug fix:
- Fast clicking on a card should no longer result in errors like creatures in the permanent bar
- AI does not get too much extra quanta when playing a quantum tower.
- False Gods lose when they are out of cards
- Momentum and mutation stack properly
- The top row of creatures is now in front of the second row (cards stats are readable)
- Sundial lasts only one turn
- Heal heals for 12 (instead of 10)
- Lighting cost reduced to 2
- ... and many other little improvements
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Awesome. Now if I only had time to actually play the game, lol.
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I know how difficult it is to create a game from scratch, and that it is even harder to modify it once it has been uploaded... Yet, I would like to see gryphons and kitsune in the game, as well as maybe Ass-Blasters from Tremors III.
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w00t....strangely, i think i'm most excited about the top row creature fix....
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Umm are the alchemy cards rare? I don't see them in the bazaar...
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Mutation still creates creatures with momentum applied, was that intended?
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Umm are the alchemy cards rare? I don't see them in the bazaar...
They weren't added to the game yet.
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Mutation still creates creatures with momentum applied, was that intended?
This is intended. The part with creatures having their activated ability replaced by momentum if they were created that way and then PUed/mutated again was not intended.
You have a 4/4 Pegasus with Momentum. You mutate it, and you get 1/7 Graviton Fire Eater with Momenum for 2 Gravity that does nothing.
You have a 1/6 Elite Otyugh with Momentum cast on it by you. You PU it, and you get a 1/6 Elite Otyugh with Momentum and no Devour.
Those two are fixed.
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I'm really disliking this sundial update. Kills my whole deck basically.
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I'm really disliking this sundial update. Kills my whole deck basically.
What was it?
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I'm really disliking this sundial update. Kills my whole deck basically.
What was it?
Sundials only stop creatures from attacking for 1 turn. It kills me against FG farming.
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Okay, I know that Sundial now does.
What was that deck of yours?
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I'm really disliking this sundial update. Kills my whole deck basically.
What was it?
Sundials only stop creatures from attacking for 1 turn. It kills me against FG farming.
KAM when did you join the forum?
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KAM when did you join the forum?
In what way is this relevant?
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Okay, I know that Sundial now does.
What was that deck of yours?
10 Quantum Pillars
1 Oty
1 Fallen Druid
6 Sundials
1 Eternity
2 Boneyards
2 Bonewalls
2 Steals
2 Empathic Bonds
1 Uni
2 Rain of Fire
So the stalling was basically the backbone, and the fact that it worked all unupgraded. I'm not shooting for winning all the time, or a high win rate, just one that wins a decent amount of the time so i can win and sell the cards i win from FGs.
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Database serach: Unicorn card not found.
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Database serach: Unicorn card not found.
Sorry, Parallel Universe
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Say PU like a human
Also, well...
...I'm no expert. But you should be able to win against some.
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Say PU like a human
Also, well...
...I'm no expert. But you should be able to win against some.
Different humans use different abbreviations for different things.
And I do win on the occasional rarity when I get a near perfect hand. The sundial update just murdered my deck a lot more than I would have liked.
Good updates on everything else though :D especially with the top row of cards
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That deck also seen here http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,1215.0.html (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,1215.0.html) I bet that deck got ruined ^^
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That deck also seen here http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,1215.0.html (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,1215.0.html) I bet that deck got ruined ^^
Mhmm, that's the deck I had, and formed it, back on Kongregate, which is when i moved here so the sundials wouldn't be glitched like they were on Kongregate. But I guess that kind of drops out of the equation. Oh well, guess I'll go with a t50, grab some rare weapons and work on that until i have enough for some more upgrades to improve my chances with the FG's.
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Are there any new False God decks in the game right now? I heard someone speak of a God named "Obliterator".
Also, can we fight Ferox (Life/Light False God) and the unnamed 12th level 3 AI now? I would like to meet them.
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Are there any new False God decks in the game right now? I heard someone speak of a God named "Obliterator".
Also, can we fight Ferox (Life/Light False God) and the unnamed 12th level 3 AI now? I would like to meet them.
Yes to both. Zanz says there will be a total of 24 false gods now. (Though of course all aren't added at the same time). Also, he says that though Ferox has none at the moment, it *will* be getting adrenaline in its deck.
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When and where did Zanz say that? I want to see the details.
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Heal now heals 12 instead of 10
Lava Golem seems to have a cap on its growth (correct me if I'm wrong)
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In the chatroom. So there's no record of it. But I assure you, he said there will be 24 different gods.
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I don't suppose upgrade prices were tweaked?
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Heal now heals 12 instead of 10
Yep. Heal is pretty decent card now.
Oh, wait..
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Heal changed from 10 to 12? What's that gonna accomplish? Heal to 20 would surely be better!
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Zanz, it seems that Stone Skin and Shard of Divinity only increase your max health and don't also heal like they used to before the update. In addition, if you do heal above 100, your health resets at the end of your turn as well as the opponent's.
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Obliterator... a new FG... nice one, frist game, im curious what will happen! 8)
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Is this really all of the changes? If it is then it is, I'm not complaining but I suspect that there is a lot more not mentioned as could be said about just about any software. I also respect the fact that discovery is part of the excitement of new content but I have to believe that with so many pvp bugs, AI oddities and thousands of requests for changes to game mechanics that there must have been more changes that only required changing a few variables that weren't documented.
Also, I think the change to sundial without some sort of compensation was a big mistake. No matter what adjustments people make to their FG farm decks, our win rate will significantly drop. The nice thing about sundial was that it sometimes bought us the time to draw the cards we needed to stand up to the rate that the FG's draw cards and gain quanta. Sundial was not an ideal card for pvp as so many other decks are better than rainbow decks. Sundial got nerfed because of arrogant and elitist discussions about the balance of sundial ("I'm so good, I'm going to ask for sundial to be nerfed because I'm so good that I can win 80% of my games against FGs without it" type of attitude). Was it overpowered? In general yes but it was critical against FGs. Aagain it bought time. Even against decks like Miracle and Fire Queen I am losing from time to time because I don't have that time. I'll take specific strategy to the FG forum but the new cards and new rules did not compensate for the significant reduction that everyone will take to their win rate.
Win rates will go down against FGs and no one wants to lose as much as they will. It's just not as fun. Those of us who are in the T50 will hit a decent bump in the road over this but imagine those who are coming up, are much more casual and don't have the resources to build 10 of every fully upgraded deck imaginable. You will lose a good amount of your player base. And to my fellow veteran players, keep in mind that this game isn't just about us.
I personally could care less if Sundial stays the way it is or not but either nerf the FGs, boost other defensive cards, whatever. Mark my words, people will lose interest when they lose as much as they will. Boosting our HP by 50 and giving our creatures some extra attacks will not make up for the fact that the FGs can slaughter us in a handful of turns even when we have a very decent draw.
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Was it overpowered? In general yes..
That's all the information we need to understand why Sundial got nerfed.
It happens with all online games. Every time something gets nerfed, angry players go crazy on the forums. I find this very strange because I personally think game balance is more important than any "I win" buttons.
It's a good thing that False Gods are more difficult now because they were too easy before. You might see that as an elitist attitude but if you cannot beat FG's now, you are doing something wrong.
The problem here is that players got used to False Gods being easy. Either they weren't here, or don't remember the time couple of months ago when False Gods were difficult and no deck had 50%+ winning percentage (well, some people said they had but that wasn't true). False Gods were never meant to be easy.
That being said, I would like to see the upgrade price dropped to 1k. That would make it easier to upgrade your deck by fighting non-False Gods. Also it's a more even number which is always good. :)
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I agree with cyberrico.
The winning percentage did not drop form 80% to 50% with my deck (as I read on another post). Before I had 50% chance to win against a random FG. Now, I did get one win in 15 battle against the update FG.
There is just no way to stand vs Gemini, with no real time to be able to counter its momentum massive dragon spamming.
May be this is the vision of top players to have an additional challenge with downgraded sundials, but I think that we are missing now an intermediate level of challenge between the easy level 3 and the FG.
By the way the new FG Obliterator is just incredibly strong. I get my ass-kicked 3 times without being able to pull any card.
Therefore, I would suggest an intermediate challenge. Otherwise this will just become to boring to get money to improve your deck (as already it is difficult to obtain a upgraded card at the end of a win).
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Therefore, I would suggest an intermediate challenge. Otherwise this will just become to boring to get money to improve your deck (as already it is difficult to obtain a upgraded card at the end of a win).
Top 50? PvP?
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Therefore, I would suggest an intermediate challenge. Otherwise this will just become to boring to get money to improve your deck (as already it is difficult to obtain a upgraded card at the end of a win).
Top 50? PvP?
These are not getting you upgraded card and therefore no real possibility to get you a better deck.
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Therefore, I would suggest an intermediate challenge. Otherwise this will just become to boring to get money to improve your deck (as already it is difficult to obtain a upgraded card at the end of a win).
Top 50? PvP?
These are not getting you upgraded card and therefore no real possibility to get you a better deck.
So you want an easy and fast way to get upgraded cards?
That's not going to happen. You need to work for it. And by work I mean grind. :)
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Some false gods did get a nerf with the quantum tower fix. It doesn't offset the sundial nerf, but I think 80% win rate decks were too high anyway, IMO.
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Concerning what cyberrico said I totally agree!
I tried my rainbow god-killer several times and got totally boned most of the time ... and that is after finally having established a version last week with which I could win against most of the FGs. :'(
In terms of effectivity the comparison betweent he old and the new sundial works out like this for me:
Old basic: 1time + 2 light, 2 turns of safety, 2 extra cards
Old upgraded: 4 light, 2 turns of safety, 2 extra cards
New basic: 1 time + 1 light, 1 turn of safety, 1 extra card
New upgraded: 2 light, 1 turn of safety, 1 extra card
Now I would consider for the new sundials that those "extra" cards aren't actually extra anymore because instead of drawing the damn sundial in the first place I would have drawn exactly that "extra" card right away.
So basically the new sundial amounts to:
NO extra cards but still 1 turn of safety for the cost of 2 quanta.
It's still a stall and moreover still the fastest stall out there.
(In terms of quantums the phase shield is better now since you will get 3 turns for only 5 quantums, but of course it being a shield and having to come up with 5 all aether quants does limit its speed/mobility significantly.)
Also, I can see how the old sundial sort of overpowered those rainbow decks and the sundial fix will probably do a lot of good for the pvp-scene and bring up more interesting mono-duo-etc. decks in the Top50.
Looking at it that way I must admit that the new version of the sundial is kind of reasonable and that the nerf is probably a good thing.
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Having said this about the sundial itself I still agree with cyberrico on the FG and new player issue:
- Just because the rainbow-godkiller got nerfed, it doesn't mean that coloured decks got boosted, so pretty much everybody will loose a lot more now.
- There is no real alternative for the sundials yet. If you consider the new cards to empower new FG strategys, you mustn't forget that those are seemingly rare too and need to be won from FGs in the first place.
- Elements will be a lot harder and weary for new players that want to join in the fun. Without the creds to upgrade other cards and no rainbow deck available anymore ... what are they going to do to get going? Grind lvl3 all day until they can afford ONE damn upgrade?
Personally, I am somewhat over the hill already with 32k score and a couple thousand creds and a bunch of upgraded cards in the backhand. I really like this game but still I dont really see a bright future for my elements account because it is just too time-consuming!
Many people have stressed how much they would like to get into the deck-building aspect as soon as possible and have fun in pvp or while devising new strategys against FGs ... you cant really do that if you need hours and hours of mindless grinding to get going!
Those who were lucky enough to have been here from day one (where one could farm anything with the mono-aether PU -> drag - deck as I heard) may be in the position to brag about their fresh decks bought from loads of (once) easily earned creds. Those who were here from day two (such as me, where one could farm anything with the sundial-rainbow deck) may still have a decent start to not give up ... both groups, especially the first, are what cyberrico called the "arrogant elite" and I see a lot of that "just dont play if you dont like it" or "grind lvl3!" advice coming the newbies way when the will complain about how hard it is to get a start.
Possibly the problem here is not the sundial but the design of ingame-procedure itself?
For me the underlying question is:
Should Elements become a fun card game, sooner or later playable for anybody?
OR
Should Elements become like any other damn MMORPG or Browsergame and make investment of lifetime the core concept on the road to success?
For me, the answer is easy.
I would plead to the developers to not fall for elitist domination of this board and consecutively think that "this is what people want". No, this board is populated by the same old (top) 50 guys and certainly does not reflect the impression someone who has just played his first couple days will have.
So here are my suggestions for more balance and fun for everybody:
- Let Elements have a learning curve and do let people "work" for their progress.
However, make a quick calculation how long it will take a freshman to achieve certain checkpoints (such as his first upgraded card, a real chance to beat a FG, top50-deck etc.). Then consider wether it is realistic to expect people to invest this kind of time.
- Generally speaking, do not increase the overall difficulty and time investment to get decent cards and decks beyond a certain point:
The point where unemployed play-all-daylers and 13 year old school kiddies will dominate a game that could be meant for regular folks who like a nice game with an intellectual challenge (and not a scheduling-challenge).
- Re-adjust / nerf the gods possibly.
I do feel that god-killing should be a challenge and honestly, with the rainbow deck they have really gotten a bit too easy.
However, if they are such a challenge, it should at least be worth it, meaning either
-> That I can devise certain strategies for certain gods to beat them.
I dont think that with an eventual 24 gods (and an improved AI) this will be possible ... it will just be reduced to mindless cash grinding in order to afford several totally luck based matches against the FGs while hoping to be matched against the right ones, time-consuming and not fun!
Here, it may be a good idea to divide all those gods into two or three groups.
or/and
-> That I will at least be rewarded properly!
E.g., if I have to loose 10 matches (=150 score, 300 creds) just to get lucky once (=150 score + 120 creds with e. mastery only!), I took a lot of frustration and time-consuming click-and-loose just to receive a draw in terms of score and a heavy loss in terms of cash??!
Moreover, I will remark that the spinning wheel has been nerfed and that I get spammed with Pillars in the second slot all the time!
Playing against FGs has to pay off for the "advanced" player too and not only for the "elite". Otherwise people will just take a pass and leave.
One way to make it pay off, is to reinstate the winning percentage in the slot maschine.
Ok, before this gets any longer, I best stop here and wait for qualified comments first. ;-)
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Well, I think that before the upgrade I was getting one card every 6 or 7 (won) battles. I wouldn't call it easy but this is my point of view. So I'm sure that now it will become really more difficult to improve your deck.
Anyway, this is a great card game. I just wanted to give you my thoughts.
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Zanz, it seems that Stone Skin and Shard of Divinity only increase your max health and don't also heal like they used to before the update. In addition, if you do heal above 100, your health resets at the end of your turn as well as the opponent's.
Haha, i had this too, but i couldn't pinpoint it out. So i removed that note. Good to see someone else sensed a disturbance in the force.
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Let's be clear. I could care about Sundial and I could care less about nerfs. In fact, I have been getting a little bored from the lack of challenge now that I am well into the T50 and have 6+ of every upgraded card in the game. But it's not just about me and it's not just about the top players.
What concerns me is the impact that losing more than winning will have on the average player. Even with the old sundial and a great fully upgraded deck no amount of skill could counter nearly any of the FGs when they get the perfect draw or if we don't get an ideal draw.
Reducing upgrade costs is meaningless. I had a fully upgraded SG god killer deck in no time. Anyone else could accomplish that as well.
I'm simply saying that a 30-40% win rate is not fun. Period.
Mark my words, Elements will lose a significant player base if some adjustment is not made.
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Agreed cyberrico ... again.
I think its cool that you are this considerate when it comes to the rest of the players.
I got my FG-rainbow upgraded pretty fast too, but mainly because it actually was possible to play FGs with an un-upgraded rainbow and reinvest the winnings into the deck. :-\
Right now, I think having to grind roughly 30k against lvl3 to upgrade half a 40 card-deck and thus make it barely reach your supposed 30% winning rate is not an option for newbies ... I would probably rather watch TV for ages and be mad about the ads than to sit there and do that kind of WORK.
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Zanz, it seems that Stone Skin and Shard of Divinity only increase your max health and don't also heal like they used to before the update. In addition, if you do heal above 100, your health resets at the end of your turn as well as the opponent's.
Haha, i had this too, but i couldn't pinpoint it out. So i removed that note. Good to see someone else sensed a disturbance in the force.
Yeah, I noticed this as well. This makes getting an elemental mastery very difficult after using a shard of divinity, and I'm sure it's not intended behaviour.
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I'm going to have to agree with cyberrico as well with most things, though i do think its a little early to tell on how things will pan out.
I'm relatively new and have been playing for about a month now, and i actually just got my deck fully upgraded several days ago. I accomplished this by playing what time a could at work, and off and on during the week.
The way things are now, I'm not sure if i would even want to try to make a new deck from scratch. With the sundials nerfed, taking on FG's with an non-upgraded deck would be more of a pain than fun really imo. Sure there will be new strategies and new cards to contend with, which is why i think its too early to clearly predict how new players will react, but farming lvl 3 until i get 1500 coins for an upgrade would no longer fall into my category of fun.
I'm lucky enough to have my fully upgraded deck and several spare upgraded cards I've won, so for me its not really an issue. But getting where I'm at seemed to be a pretty perfect balance of fun and challenge, with very little luck involved. But if i were to start over, i think frustration might take over before i got to where i wanted to be.
Anyways, its a great game and i have enjoyed playing it and will continue to do so. Just throwing my 2 cents out there :D
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Agreed cyberrico ... again.
I think its cool that you are this considerate when it comes to the rest of the players.
I got my FG-rainbow upgraded pretty fast too, but mainly because it actually was possible to play FGs with an un-upgraded rainbow and reinvest the winnings into the deck. :-\
Right now, I think having to grind roughly 30k against lvl3 to upgrade half a 40 card-deck and thus make it barely reach your supposed 30% winning rate is not an option for newbies ... I would probably rather watch TV for ages and be mad about the ads than to sit there and do that kind of WORK.
Thanks but in truth my best interests in terms of enjoyment of the game are there too. I'm not trying to be the voice of the up and comer or casual gamer. I think that the grind to the ideal God Killer deck isn't that hard.
I'm saying that at my level of play (again in the top 50, unlimited upgraded cards and several hundred thousand to spend) is affected just as much.
Winning more than losing plain and simply sucks. If any of you are willing to accept this so that you can have more of a challenge then you are sadists LOL.
Let me give you some other game examples:
First Person Shooters
I am very good at these games. There are invite only private servers that I have passwords to where the players are all excellent. I can hold my own in most of them. 99% of the standard open games bore me. There are some private servers I have been to where the players are so exceptional that I get my butt handed to me on a platter. They are all on competitive teams and pros. I don't play there much as while it makes me a better player to try to compete at this level, I will never be that commited to FPS games. The moral of the story: play to your skill level.
Now that doesn't really work with Elements. It's not like I don't have the tools or the skill. My deck is strong and I rarely lose because I made a mistake. Moving down is not only insanely below my level of play, it shouldn't be necessary for me to feel any self esteem about my ability to compete in a game.
World of Warcraft
I was so close to gladiator in 3 seasons in 2v2 and 3v3 when I played the game. This one is simple. You play your best and you will (almost) always play against those at your level. With the exception of high rated players bringing up new teams, you will always have an appropriate challenge. Even on an bad day where you do nothing but lose, you will always feel like you had a chance and even losing can feel good. Elements isn't like that. Being at the cutting edge of skill isn't difficult. There are no micro skills or even hand eye coordination skill required to win. 99% of the time that I lose it is because I didn't have a prayer because I didn't draw well enough or the FG drew too well.
The Solutions:
AI- The AI will get better with each update. That will increase the challenge. I can think of 100 problems with the AI that are still in the game that could take an 80% win rate player down to 65% without Sundial being nerfed.
Fix PvP. This is the true endgame to card battle games. It's rare that some idiot cheater isn't boosting his health every turn or flooded with newbies who are still using their starter decks.
Upgrade Other Cards - You want sundial nerfed? Fine. Boost other defensive cards. Or offensive cards for that matter. If you want us to stop sitting behind our Sundial curtain waiting for cards then make cheaper more powerful cards that can speed up the game and actually beat the FGs.
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With the changes chriskang will implement to the AI targeting (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,1422.0.html) and the better FG decks, i think it would be quite ok to:
- leave sundial in its nerfed state
- nerf the FG to balance the games. Either less card drawing with a deck size limit of 60 or less HP
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TheFalse gods shul be the hardest challenge. you have to work for beating them. But you want to battle easy enemys with highdrops!
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Ferox seems to be absolutely cakewalk (or i had a very lucky draw).
I got an elite otyugh out fast enough, PU'd it. They ate up anything it could throw at me, and the bone wall just grew.
I wish all fake gods are this easy :D
It didn't play adrenaline. Isn't it in the game or some bug prevented it to play?
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From the few times i've played Ferox it seems to be either, extremely easy or extremely hard. Like you said, alot of it depends on if you get an elite otyugh out fast enough to counter its almost overwhelming production of giant toads and photosynthesis or whether you can get a fire storm to give yourself some breathing room. But then again a lot of it depends on your deck too =P
When the cards play right, its an easy win, and i was fortunate enough to win myself an upgraded adrenaline (Epinephrine) :D
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False Gods are supposed to be hard? Even with a fully upgraded deck, the best win rate anyone can possibly achieve is 50%?
This is completely absurd. God farming is the only way to effectively get enough money to upgrade your deck. Most new players don't have upgraded cards (I personally only have 4 upgraded Hourglasses); and with the new AI and 24 False Gods, it will be extremely difficult to beat them.
And look at Level 3 Elders. They're so incredibly easy, that if your unupgraded deck does not have a 90% win rate against them, your deck sucks. The next level of AI, the False Gods, are incredibly difficult, that you'll be really lucky if your unupgraded deck has a 10% win rate against them. The game shouldn't be like that.
What I'd really like to see is Level 7 AI, such as the Demigods me and my friends are planning in a thread on Kongregate, or the Heroes SG made. The False Gods are False Gods after all, and they shouldn't be too hard to beat with fully upgraded decks, just like Elders are easy to beat with unupgraded decks. Level 7, the Demigods, should be very difficult to beat, but they should yield great rewards.
Just on a side note, about the Demigods we were planning on Kongregate:
They have 250 HP, 5x Mark, and no limit on deck building (e.g. one can have 20 Miracles in a 150-card deck).
They each possess an Avatar (legendary creature), a Relic (legendary permanent), and a Taboo (legendary spell). This is inspired from the Hero Cards by SG.
And perhaps there should be a Level 8 AI, the final boss of the game:
Overgod Zanzarino: 500 HP, infinite quanta, infinite cards, 3 card draw per turn.
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The solvent is to bump the FG rewards to be way higher, like 500 base (1000 with Mastery), and actually populate the AI4 and AI5 slots.
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Well... That could be a good idea... But I'd still like to see Level 7 and 8 opponents.
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The solvent is to bump the FG rewards to be way higher, like 500 base (1000 with Mastery), and actually populate the AI4 and AI5 slots.
I think the reward is OK for false gods. I'd rather see upgraded cards cost 10-15 times what the unupgraded version costs. Probably have to make an exception for pillars though.
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When they become real hard, a higher reward should be applied. Miracle Blessing Pegasii, and fast, Graviton playing Otyughs earlier, Fire Queen playing Eagleye priorities properly and Animating them after shooting, and so on.
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That's the point. The FGs are Level 6 Ais. Level 4 and 5 are missing. First before the demigods and the gods the Ai 5 and 4 should be added. Some Ais between the strengt of the Falsegods and the easypeasy AI 3.
Then the FGs are the real challange they meant to be.
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In the chat, Zanz said he was working on level 5 AI.
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Excellent! I took that road of grinding AI3 instead of gods PVP, so this will work out great!
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Well I just changed my deck up a little and am hardley (not even worth mentioniong) worse off as before.
People have been complaining that Rainbow is overpowered bla bla. The SD nerf alone should be enough to end this debate, as with the new cards already added and the ones to come Mono, duo decks will get stronger. All in all the game will be more balanced. Why does Ai3 even get mentioned? If you can´t play vs the FG play t50. Before FG there was a lot of variation in the t50. Best place to get rares and New Ideas etc. As there were only very few decks that actually had a chance to win with high percantage (FG)the decks in t50 got very monoton. With the update that should change and bring back some varitation.
Another thing is it´s only a matter of time before we got another load of new FG decks that win with a High %. They just will be diffrent from the ones now. Same thing was whene the 1.13 update came it took a couple weeks for people to adjust.
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[i agree the sundial card is basically a waste of money >:D you would better be off with an entropy account with their fallen elves and mutations :entropy really is better than anything
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Lock thread, please?