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Re: Rape jokes right or wrong? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32454.msg410851#msg410851
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2011, 06:08:08 am »
If I'm really honest the reason I started this up is for one of two reasons
1. I was curious to see others opinions and why they thought it.
2. Because I've been a rape victim a few too many times to remember.

I at first dealt with my rape by burying it because everyone didn't understand it was a serious thing and actually happened outside of jokes. Hell a friend of mine got raped, told someone because she believed they wouldn't laugh or think she diserved it (because that in the jokes that were mainly around there was the main reason why girls got raped, because they dressed like they were asking for it) and she got laughed and told she must have dressed in too much of a showy thing so it looked like she was asking for it, she killed herself a week later because of that.
That is how bad it is for some when others make jokes out of it and it just becomes some massive joke. Yes it helps some to joke about it or maybe its just down to humour, who knows. But as others have said, in the end it in a way comes down to if you care about how another may feel about it.
Also my opinion is almost being raped and actually being raped are two totally different things. For instance I was raped from the age of 6 till I was 10 years old, my fiancee was almost date raped those are totally different experiences.
Will say this now, I am sorry that happened to you all and I'm glad you made it through it.

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Re: Rape jokes right or wrong? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32454.msg410917#msg410917
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2011, 10:06:14 am »
As for your second comment higurashi, that is not necessarily true. I attempted suicide about a year ago and have cut myself, but I have joked about it a fair share. And I have dealt with the problem extensivly so it isnt just a defense mechanism.  Its just a matter of the person in question, some people are offended, some people are hurt, some people laugh, and some people dont care.
That actually proves my point. If you've dealt with the issue, you don't need to use humour as a defence mechanism.

I have personal experiences with these issues, myself, but that's not why I crusade against trivialising them. It's because I see friends dear to me that suffer from it.
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Re: Rape jokes right or wrong? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32454.msg411134#msg411134
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2011, 08:04:37 pm »
Hell a friend of mine got raped, told someone because she believed they wouldn't laugh or think she diserved it (because that in the jokes that were mainly around there was the main reason why girls got raped, because they dressed like they were asking for it) and she got laughed and told she must have dressed in too much of a showy thing so it looked like she was asking for it, she killed herself a week later because of that.
My blood is boiling after reading this comment; my entire body is literally shaking with rage.  I am truly sorry for your loss.

I myself have never been raped, nor have I come close to such an encounter.  However the environment I was raised in and still live in was and continues to be littered with such incidents.  From my experience the people around here don't joke about these types of things unless I know from rumors on the street that the person is a)  Directly involved in the raping themselves b)  Directly involved in gang activity, not always including rape or c)  An adolescent trying to act tough and become involved in gang activity.  Of course the fact that these incidents happen somewhat commonly only adds to the sense that the community is in a continually state of decay; joking about them brings about very different reactions from very different people.  The act itself is horrific, horrific enough for much of the community to consider taking direct action against the crime itself.  However because so many people either fear these streets or believe that nothing can ever be done about them, still nothing continues to be done about it.  Oh sure, everyone cringes at the next crime that happens and occasionally murmurs something about how it needs to be stopped, but the lack of resolve, willpower and courage is what ultimately prevents any and all preventive matters from taking place.  Thugs who commit the crimes themselves typically deduce that their lives aren't going to improve any time soon, so there's no point in trying to do good when nothing good results from it.  Or at least those are the types of responses that I've received from discussing the issue with a few ex-convicts I have met.
While I can't say that this is the exact same scenario in all communities where rape is a common problem, I can assume that it's not a topic to be taken lightly as more and more of us become aware of its atrocity.  I imagine it's very easy to sometimes forget about how serious a problem this is when sitting behind a computer for hours, even days, on end.  The internet serves as a massive time sink and is essentially a portal into a world isolated from the one that exists right outside of our front doors.  As things become less real to us it becomes easier to take them less seriously, that to me seems to be the real issue here.  Most people have enough common sense to know that rape itself is wrong but to actually know what it means beyond that usually takes firsthand experience or personal ties to a person who has experienced it themselves.
I personally know and remain in contact with 3 people who have been raped themselves.  All three of them are mothers to multiple children (whether or not any of these children are the results of those rape incidents I do not know, nor am I sure that I want to know) and they all have had different reactions and coping techniques in response to the event.  One of them was so greatly affected that I cannot be within the same room as her by myself and instead must be accompanied by one or two people (almost always women) who she can trust.  She has absolutely no problems with me mentoring or teaching her children, but she still cannot trust herself with me alone.  The second has been known to have several nervous and/or psychological breakdowns and is currently being hospitalized because of a rather severe breakdown as I type this message right now.  The third I have the least amount of contact with despite having known her for several years.  I have never seen the woman crack a smile once in the time that I have known her and any attempts to strike up a conversation with her have only resulted in silence or short responses which indicated obvious disinterest in my presence completely.  If you were to ask me to try and use rape in a joking manner to any one of these women I can guarantee you that the response I would receive would be anything besides rage or complete disgust.  It seems I was beaten to the punch for my next point:
Quote
Also my opinion is almost being raped and actually being raped are two totally different things. For instance I was raped from the age of 6 till I was 10 years old, my fiancee was almost date raped those are totally different experiences.
Will say this now, I am sorry that happened to you all and I'm glad you made it through it.
QFT.  The main difference between actually being raped and almost being raped is that at the end of the day only one of you is able to say, "Well at least the worst didn't happen."  It's not simply a matter of having a traumatic event happen to you, it has a lot to do with having your sense of security shattered to pieces, being violated completely, and so on.  I can't even begin to fathom what the experience would be like because I've never been in the situation myself.

As for myself...
I don't try to press my beliefs on other people.  If you want to discuss why an issue is right or wrong with me then that's fine, but I will not argue with anyone if you are unable to accept my beliefs as my beliefs and attempt to force your beliefs on me.  In saying that, I believe wholeheartedly that telling people who have been raped to take it less seriously is the real joke here.  It's not a matter of becoming accustomed to hearing it used in a joking fashion so long as the event continues to scar you every time you even recollect about the event itself.  They say time heals all wounds, but this is a much deeper wound than most are inclined to believe, and everyone responds differently to the incident; humour is rarely one of these methods of coping.  As was pointed out before, it's very, very difficult to cope with the event itself, to be ridiculed for it as if you had somehow done something wrong is unjust.  To have the eyes of your peers fall upon you more out of pity, hatred, anger, disgust, compassion...just because someone wasn't able to contain the animal within them is so wrong that I doubt that I will ever be at rest with the issue until I am dead.  If I even hear anyone use rape in a joking manner then I immediately believe them to be very ignorant or insensitive of the world around them.  That's not to say that I would hate them for their beliefs; you can't put the blame on someone for never being able to understand the issue in the first place.

The topic of rape has always saddened me for a number of reasons.  My heart laments for each of you who has experienced this firsthand.
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Re: Rape jokes right or wrong? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32454.msg411187#msg411187
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2011, 09:30:14 pm »
As for your second comment higurashi, that is not necessarily true. I attempted suicide about a year ago and have cut myself, but I have joked about it a fair share. And I have dealt with the problem extensivly so it isnt just a defense mechanism.  Its just a matter of the person in question, some people are offended, some people are hurt, some people laugh, and some people dont care.
If anything, this proves the opposite of what you are saying. The obvious interpretation is that it was a bad time that you will never be able to forget so you joke about it and such to make the memories less painful.

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Re: Rape jokes right or wrong? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32454.msg411195#msg411195
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2011, 09:45:16 pm »
Jokes are not necessarily defensive measures.

Laughter is usually pleasant. Laughter can be caused by relief at realizing a surprise is not dangerous. Thus a comedian can use a non dangerous surprise to elicit laughter. This is one type of a joke. Note the comedian was not using a joke as a defensive measure.



Jokes that offend did not work.

Jokes are meant to elicit pleasurable laughter. People that are offended tend to not have a net positive experience from the joke. Therefore using a joke that offends someone in the audience is a mistake. However, if no one is offended then the joke is benign. Thus Rape jokes are acceptable if the audience will enjoy them and not acceptable if it offends the audience.

I personally dislike Rape jokes but my dislike does not make them universally wrong.
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Re: Rape jokes right or wrong? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32454.msg411207#msg411207
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2011, 09:59:19 pm »
Rape jokes are not, have never been, and will never be 'right' to me. However, as others have said, the concept of joking about an issue can help dull the pain of said issue, both mental and physical. I emphasize 'can' due to personal experience. Although I've never been a victim of rape, I have been a victim of verbal abuse several times, and have considered the knife as a simple way out. I've never gone through with it because I realized for every asshole I could name, I could also name a person who wouldn't want to see me gone.

However, joking about it never helped me personally. In fact, I felt it only made me feel worse, because it opened my eyes to the fact that thousands upons thousands of people around the world were having the same issue. For me, it was dealt with better by communicating with myself rather than others. Writing notes to myself, drawing and doodling, and organizing all helped me release my anger and return to a \more normal self. This doesn't mean I don't still get angered easily, but through my troubles, I now have a better grasp of how to deal with it.

To conclude my opinion: Whether rape (or similar) jokes are wrong or right/not wrong depends solely on the mindsets of a person, whether they be a participant, a victim, or a bystander. Society's view, in turn, depends on the mindsets of all the people in said society. Therefore, I believe the main question of this thread can only be discussed and not answered with fact. Personally I dislike jokes about rape and similar issues, and I know people who agree, but I also know people who disagree, and again these come down to individual mindsets.
 
As a side note, I also think that rape is rape, no matter the genders of the people involved and the magnitude of the incident.
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Re: Rape jokes right or wrong? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32454.msg411210#msg411210
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2011, 10:14:31 pm »
Quote
Also my opinion is almost being raped and actually being raped are two totally different things.
Absolutely. I happen to be a fairly large man trained in martial arts. The only reason things got to the 'almost rape' stage was because I wasn't willing to commit violence on this woman to get her away from me until things were waay to far along for my comfort.  This, of course, means I have no ability whatsoever to empathize with someone who was actually raped. At all.
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Re: Rape jokes right or wrong? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32454.msg412161#msg412161
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2011, 10:53:29 pm »
Lol this convosation isn't doing too bad.
Yes it sucks that even though some may not like or want these types of jokes, there's nothing that can really be done, or at least instantly. Sometimes it helps that some say their opinion or consider others when they do make the jokes and it sometimes slows it or in really rare cases stops it from happening in some places.
I agree that it really sucks when a guy says he was raped by a woman that no one really believes him, sometimes that seems to be caused either by the social belief that females are the weaker and so therefore couldn't possibly do that as it would mean they are as stronge or stronger than men, or because they take the womans side due to going from one extreme of keeping women under the thumb to they are harmless and normally right. There seems to be no middle ground yet, but I know it is possible for a woman to do that a guy and vice versa.


Quote
Also my opinion is almost being raped and actually being raped are two totally different things.
Absolutely. I happen to be a fairly large man trained in martial arts. The only reason things got to the 'almost rape' stage was because I wasn't willing to commit violence on this woman to get her away from me until things were waay to far along for my comfort.  This, of course, means I have no ability whatsoever to empathize with someone who was actually raped. At all.

I tend to think of it another way, if a woman does that she isn't really a woman she's more of a animal. Same for men. But I can understand not wanting to hit her, though I would say to try and make sure it don't get to that again.

 

anything
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