Open Discussion about Forum Mafia games

[CrockettRocket]

Some keys are broke _=question mark *=period
@closed set up
D2D is host, Im player Day 1 starts idk if im mafia or civilian or my role, how do I advance not knowing anything_ Use my role_ which might not even tell me the answer to any of those_

@Honor of players not-pming eachother
I think its VITAL to keep PMs for strategy* I honestly think its the bread and butter of mafia* It'd feel like a whole new game without being able to freely chose what information is public or discreet*
EX: I am the doctor and since I cant target myself in this mafia, I want to target the investigator* Investigator now has to claim publically for me to target him knowingly* Now with PMs, if he targeted me luckily and found I was doctor, every night from N2 he could tell me and I could target him* the key difference here is that when one of us dies during the day phase or me during the night phase the other doesnt immiedatly die after* Loosing 2 PRs for knowing one would suck and ruin the fun of the game for the 2nd player*

@Ethics
Please, keep this thread going in a direction of solving problems from the hosts point of view to get good, well crafted mafia games in the furture*
As for not being able to promise people stuff I think takes away some fun in the game between players* Promises are like a game within a game, nothing wrong with that and can be a part of non-gamebreaking strategy*
EX: Dm is mafia and Im Civvilian doctor* He promises me that submachine will die because of his current player behavior* I promise Dm that sub wont die* I target sub* No mafia kill happened that nightphase because of my civvilian tactics to draw out a nightkill target* Everyone votes Dm after I explain this somehow without saying im the doctor in thread (aka say I told the doctor to target sub) and Dm dies*

@Massroleclaims
I agree on everthing here except on multi-duplicate roles* On essentially every mafia game its easy to get around this as civvys using investigator or other abilities and day lynches*

@Leadership problems
Again, please leave this thread as something hosts can prevent
You should note that whenever you get an "order" from someone you should take it as a strong encouragement or suggestion* You have free will like you have the freedom to do as you like*
EX: You wouldnt believe how many people just role claimed to me and didnt target me when I publically claimed diplomat, more on this when mafia ends

@Steryotypical behavior
Some people dont care to win if they are X, and thus only try when they're Y* Leave this to them to decide, but they should be thinking about this from game 2 of mafia according to what they want
and again, HOSTS CANT FIX THIS -_-

@LoopHole Abuse
This is where players honor should come in tbh, but yes hosts should write that very simple thing
*What I was attempting wasnt abusing a loophole, just a game-breaking strategy*

@Length of waiting
I plan on having 36 Hour nights and 36 hour days* Usually being a whole 12 hours off every other day will screw with peoples time, but I plan on remedying this issue with an online alarm clock

I agree with half os this, however I like the intent behind the thread so +rep

[Zawadx]

Closed setup means you are told your role and what it does, but no one else knows. This has often lead to some crazy role-claims

[Dm]

"I am a potato. I give vitamin B. In fact, vitamin B is just this game's currency for "Voting power". Giving you vitamin B means I can raise your voting power. It's secret though."

[CrockettRocket]

Since I eat a lot of potatoes and am mafia, does that mean I automatically win_
Or will my mafia teammates be dumb enough to kill me_

[RootRanger]

If a majority of players want my mafia to be closed setup, I'll do it. But I must warn you, things would get very crazy.

[Zawadx]

If a majority of players want my mafia to be closed setup, I'll do it. But I must warn you, things would get very crazy.

I think your mafia would be the best to be a closed setup x)

[Espithel]

I'm going to say this:
For things that the moderator can prevent, it is entirely the responsibility of the moderator to do so.
Is there a loophole in the rules? Exploit it; it shouldn't be there.
Mass Roleclaim potential? Well, in the end, you DO want to win, and whilst it's boring, go on. Mod's fault.

(And I know most of my actions in the mafias contradict this statement, but in the end, can you really say "Don't do something that'll win us the game because it'll be boring"? Really?)

I think a guide on how to be a good moderator is needed, because most of the current problems with these current mafias are to do with flawed moderation.

Sure, there are simple and obvious things like being punctual, randomising your roles (Or at least not telling anyone they're randomised if you decide to rig up Root, Crockett, Dm and Me onto the same mafia (I'm cringing just thinking about it)), but...
Role balance? (Zawadx's oracle OP)

The amount of roles one should have? (The more roles you have, the more likely something's going to go horribly wrong. It's why I think Theelk's mafia was the best I've been in so far - simple mechanics, and not a lot of them. Roleclaim not withstanding.)

Balancing strange and special mechanics? (Ian's pairing turned me off joining his mafia, because I had to understand that AND the 24 mechanics AND stealing AND everything else.)

Complexity? (*Stares at ian*)

What to do in case something DOES go wrong? (*Stares at Jijo* *Smiles at Theelk's escape roles for the mafia his mafia.* Everyone was given a vanilla card, and the roleclaim was based on that vanilla card. The mafia were given a list of all unused vanilla roles. And one of them was an upgraded vampire. Hey, best doesn't necessarily mean amazing.)

I do like the mafia branch here, but I really feel that most of these mafias are just too complex and too crazy.
I hear that people want to be different, but are you really going to complain about having the best cake/mafia setup in the world multiple times over? Can we have something tried and true at some point?

-

Also, on Root having a closed setup:
My mafia's going to be almost mountainous, which is quite different from the other mafias. And closed setups are going to be quite different from the other mafias.

Hmm, I wonder: How difficult would it be to have 2 mafias running at once, Kuro? One for "standard" mafia, one for all of this crazy experimental stuff to try out different things and see what other people like?

I love my enter key, don't I?

[Submachine]

For things that the moderator can prevent, it is entirely the responsibility of the moderator to do so.
...
I think a guide on how to be a good moderator is needed, because most of the current problems with these current mafias are to do with flawed moderation.

You are right at many points.

For now, this topic is the only guide for moderators, so it's good if everyone shares their opinions; this way the next hosts can see it better what should be corrected.

About your planned mafia game though, will it be a dethy?

[Kuroaitou]

Not to be a downer Frozengaia, but two mafias occurring at the same time will never happen again within the near future, unless I hear some substantially sound and reasonable arguments for doing so.

Having two or more mafias (whether they'd be separated by 'experimental vs. standard' or be sequential [mafias 13 and 14 being played, 17 and 18, etc.]) incurs the following:

• Higher chance of players 'messing' up their own strategy if they choose to participate in both games (a player is a mafia in one, but a civy in the other; sending the wrong ability to the wrong host/person for a mafia; etc.)
• Double the workload and expectations for both mafias, increasing the chance of confusion or frustration if both games are not done with the highest of quality/effort
• Potentially less participation in one mafia or the other (OR BOTH) depending on players' perceptions of each game theme/mechanics, split attention in the forum game section
• Possibility of the mafia game genre dying/taking an extended break as history has shown

So no, not gonna happen. I've seen first hand on what happened when 2 mafias happened at once, and trust me; it's not that fun.


On another note, I've decided to allow co-hosting for ALL future mafias, with the exception that there be no more than two (2) co-hosts unless for specified reasons. More people get to have the fun of hosting a game, while also learning what works and doesn't work for mafia game mechanics.

[dawn to dusk]

If a majority of players want my mafia to be closed setup, I'll do it. But I must warn you, things would get very crazy.

im up for a closed setup

its mafia, if its not crazy, its not as fun ^_^

[Espithel]

Well, first thing I'd say about good moderation is to plan and show your idea early, so that many people can critique it and iron out flaws long before the game actually begins - so potential problems are fixed when you actually have time to fix it, not during the hectic sign-up phase.

Spoiler for So let's derail the discussion of this thread as an example, hurray! (Please continue with the discussion at hand, this is just because Submachine was asking and I might as well):

My mafia (46) will be an almost-mountainous setup - that means that they'll be only one actual power role in the game.
The roles will be:
Vanilla Civilians (12 in a 20 player setup)
Vanilla Mafia (3 in a 20 player setup, 2 if there's 2 Mafia Doctors)
Doctors - 5 or 6 in a 20 player setup, 1 or 2 being "mafia" doctors.

Players will be informed of how many civilians, mafia, and doctors exist when the game begins in this fashion:
There are W civilians,
X mafia,
And Y doctors, Z of which are mafia (the others being civilian.)

A doctor has the ability to protect a player for one night, preventing them from dying to the mafia that night. If a doctor is protected this way, the ability fails without any notification of being targeted or protected. If this does prevent a nightkill, neither the doctor or doctor's target will be notified of the success.

All doctors are revealed as a doctor on thier death - thier civilian or mafia identity will not be revealed. This is because Mafia Doctors do not actually have the doctor ability - they are doctors in name only. And without this, it would be far too easy to see what kind of doctors are what.

Due to the lack of need for a night phase, instant night will be in effect - The mafia and doctors send in thier targets during the day, and the mafia nightkill/ doctor's preventions will happen simultaneously with the lynch. Doctors cannot prevent a lynch.

Mafia doctors are there to prevent all of the doctors joining up and being ultra-efficient; 4 teamed doctors. Scary.

In addition, two more special mechanics:
1) For the first day only, if a vanilla civilian (Not mafia, not doctor) is lynched, that lynch will be prevented - essentially confirming the civilian. This is to give the first lynch some spice, which it usually doesn't.

2) Players may kill themselves to give themselves triple voting power on thier last vote (Their vote counts as 3 on that day.) by saying a certain phrase, in a yellow text, exactly:
"I rid myself to purge this blight."
This is the shakiest part of my setup - I want to give all people an somewhat passive ability, different from a role, but I struggle.

And that's perfectly fine, Kuro. No drowner here.

[DoubleCapitals]

Closed setups are harder to host mainly because you can't openly show how roles are like for critque. Though I'd trust RootRanger on that one if he does one but I'd recommend perhaps the first closed game be Co-hosted, or maybe have 1 player not participating look at the setup.

@Kuro Extended break? What happened?

Also seconding Frozengaia's idea of revealing setups as soon as they're conceived (as long as it isn't a closed setup)