Huh, long post coming...
It's not believing that anything is possible without a proof. I agree that believing without evidence is childish, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't seem to accept that ET believes in this, and that is neglecting what ET said without giving it a try.
I do accept that ET believes in his experience, but a person believing in something means nothing without evidence. I do not really care what people believe in, I only care about the truth.
This is about burden of proof. I do not have to give every single supernatural claim a try, the person who made the claim has to convince me by giving evidence. It's like if someone says they were abducted by aliens, would you expect me to go stand in a corn field, waiting to be abducted as well, before I can question that claim? If I say Santa Claus exists, do you travel to North Pole and go look for him?
I don't say you try it, but if you're willing to find "the truth", you may have to. Otherwise, it's just measuring his words with your rule.
Difference between us two is that you have the common belief that anything is possible until proven otherwise, whereas I have a more rational approach of not believing in supernatural incidents based on hearsay and no actual evidence. And if you think your approach is better because you are more open-minded, please check out this video (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,33550.0.html).
Ya, I think of it and I feel really bad that there are people that believe that open-mindedness is the same as supernatural stuff. I question myself about this pretty often, and I think every person that sees him/her as open-minded should do, since it would be closed-minded to not accept the fact that you can be closed-minded.
I have a
rational belief that everything is possible, I don't just dogmaticly think it's that way. I'm actually aware that I could be wrong and "the truth" can be found or all that, but I strongly believe otherway because I have enough evidence pointing the other way around.
I never said you're close-minded, nor I would think of it unless you were neglecting real proof, which ain't here.
This beliefs aren't always unconditional. Actually, if those beliefs allow people to live a happy life, and if it is happier than someone else that believes in something else, I don't see why he should change that. I don't see as childish to believe in something practically useful, because like it or not, there are proof, and the people who believe in this see these things repeating or whatever. No matter if it's a mind delusion or if it is real, if it's real for you that's enough.
I think it's intellectual dishonesty to let a person live with a delusion, no matter how happy that delusion might make that person. Our responsibility as fellow human beings is to help others to see the truth, not let them live with their delusions. Believing in something that is not real is not always dangerous to that person, but sometimes it is. And even if it's not dangerous, it's still a waste of time. We have very little time on this earth and we should spend it wisely. We cannot of course force people to discard every myth and delusion, but we can try to make them see the truth and act on their own.
Well, I get what you say here, and your point is valid. But where I must differ is in the whole "the truth" thing. As far as I know, there is no such "truth" about the life or whatever
that'd be OP, and I personally believe that no such truth exist unless it's well limited by logic statements. So I see no reason for enlightening nobody.
I think our only responsability is both to make happy the people that surrounds us, and after that being happy ourselves (that's why I believe in Jesus and all that stuff). If you're happy and don't make other people unhappy, I see no reason to get in, and risk making that person unhappy or leading to make other people unhappy. Even in the face of death, if someone REALLY feels OK about dying, the only reason why I would deny his right to die is because it could make other people unhappy.
Also there is no proof. If there is, please show me. Keep in mind that someone simply saying something happened proves absolutely nothing. The fact that people who believe in these kinds of things, see them happen all the time while others do not, only strengthens the theory that it's all made up. It's the same when religious people have divine experiences on a weekly basis, while atheists never experience anything like that. If a person wants to see miracles and supernatural things happen, they will see them happen. It's basic human psychology.
Yeah, there is proof for ET, and that's enough for him. I won't consider it without a proof to myself, and I neither want you to consider it if you see no proof. It's also human psicology that you'll find the most rational explanation to those events, while that's not always the real explanation. It's about how you see it... As was said above:
It's the same when religious people have divine experiences on a weekly basis, while atheists never experience anything like that. If a person wants to see miracles and supernatural things happen, they will see them happen. It's basic human psychology.
I would just like to point out that most people would say the reason why they are experiencing those miracles is because they asked their god/deity/higher power to grant them those things, and the reasons why atheists never experience things like that is because they do not believe/pray/give sacrifices.
There's always a reason. Be it real or not, but there will always be a counter-argument to any "truth" out there.
I believe we're just differing in some basic opinions that aren't compatible, and that we won't come to an agreement other than that we disagree.
This is my final statement on this topic, and no matter what is said after this, I will not respond. I am certain that I cannot convince anyone of what I experienced to be true. I am also adamant that it was real. That puts things at an impasse.
I say be careful when using a Ouija board, because I believe them to be dangerous.
Thank You to all that has taken interest in this topic.
EmeraldTiger
Thank you ET for that good story (be real or not), and for it leading to some deep-ish discussion I enjoyed.
