A Psychic Story

[EmeraldTiger]

From what I can remember, the entity that I felt came through the small gate, was still around after the gate was closed. It had loosely attached to Naomi. It was somehow aiding her for its own purpose. While she was in OK and I was in MO or NE, I knew each time something bad was happening to her. What was odd was the number of things that happened is 7. If anyone knows about how real karma works, that is what occurred.

For those that are skeptics, there is something that can be obtained to contact human spirits or worse.
It may be known what I am talking about.
It this item is used:
never use it alone
never the same pair of people more than twice in the same location.
if results are frightening get rid of it.
never burn it
and those items are known to carry bad luck after use.

[Scaredgirl]

Also the fact that you don't believe in this sort of things would make the same thing to you, if they were real I mean. You could think it's just bad luck, and when you sell that cursed house/table/pineapple because you're bankrupt, your luck just starts to get better. It's a matter of belief.

Sure, anything is possible, but I don't think it's very useful to believe everything you are told without any solid evidence. It doesn't really make you open-minded in the good sense of the word, it just makes you gullible. If my luck suddenly turns, it's much more likely that things other than "cursed pineapple" had an affect to it.

As far as I know, all what rules our scientific world are theories, so I don't see why they couldn't be true, I just believe they are, but I don't say another theory of the world isn't true unless it's totally illogical (and I know I can still be wrong).

Difference with science and stories like we see here is that scientific theories have evidence to back them up. For example gravity is "just a theory", but we have tons of evidence to back it back. This is why I choose to believe in gravity, but not in spirits. Believing in something unconditionally is what children should do, not adults.

From what I can remember, the entity that I felt came through the small gate, was still around after the gate was closed. It had loosely attached to Naomi. It was somehow aiding her for its own purpose. While she was in OK and I was in MO or NE, I knew each time something bad was happening to her. What was odd was the number of things that happened is 7. If anyone knows about how real karma works, that is what occurred.

For those that are skeptics, there is something that can be obtained to contact human spirits or worse.
It may be known what I am talking about.
It this item is used:
never use it alone
never the same pair of people more than twice in the same location.
if results are frightening get rid of it.
never burn it
and those items are known to carry bad luck after use.

Have you considered the possibility that these experiences are not real? They might feel real to you, but that's how delusions work (assuming this is only a delusion). For example a person who thinks he is Napoleon, might post here saying they are Napoleon and tell stories about how he was in big battles etc, but the truth is that they are most likely not Napoleon. People have delusions all the time. How do you know that your experiences are real, and not a delusion?

Btw what is this item? If it's something I can get my hands on, I will be willing to do any kind of "dangerous" testing with it, like using it alone and burning it.

[EmeraldTiger]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouija

[Ekki]

Also the fact that you don't believe in this sort of things would make the same thing to you, if they were real I mean. You could think it's just bad luck, and when you sell that cursed house/table/pineapple because you're bankrupt, your luck just starts to get better. It's a matter of belief.

Sure, anything is possible, but I don't think it's very useful to believe everything you are told without any solid evidence. It doesn't really make you open-minded in the good sense of the word, it just makes you gullible. If my luck suddenly turns, it's much more likely that things other than "cursed pineapple" had an affect to it.

It's not believing that anything is possible without a proof. I agree that believing without evidence is childish, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't seem to accept that ET believes in this, and that is neglecting what ET said without giving it a try.

As far as I know, all what rules our scientific world are theories, so I don't see why they couldn't be true, I just believe they are, but I don't say another theory of the world isn't true unless it's totally illogical (and I know I can still be wrong).

Difference with science and stories like we see here is that scientific theories have evidence to back them up. For example gravity is "just a theory", but we have tons of evidence to back it back. This is why I choose to believe in gravity, but not in spirits. Believing in something unconditionally is what children should do, not adults.

This beliefs aren't always unconditional. Actually, if those beliefs allow people to live a happy life, and if it is happier than someone else that believes in something else, I don't see why he should change that. I don't see as childish to believe in something practically useful, because like it or not, there are proof, and the people who believe in this see these things repeating or whatever. No matter if it's a mind delusion or if it is real, if it's real for you that's enough. Ergo cogito sum, "I think, therefore I am". screw that, my point was made

[Pineapple]

Ekki, you just butchered Descartes way out of context...

[Ekki]

Ekki, you just butchered Descartes way out of context...

Ya, he may be crying in his tomb. But if I did it is because I believe it applies. The fact that you believe in something that has logic (and makes sense to some extent), makes it real enough that it's practical to believe in it.

[Pineapple]

Thing is, that has nothing to do with "Cogito ergo sum." The ability to think (one of the few things you can verify about yourself) proves, to yourself and only yourself, that you exist.

[Ekki]

Thing is, that has nothing to do with "Cogito ergo sum." The ability to think (one of the few things you can verify about yourself) proves, to yourself and only yourself, that you exist.

Huh, understood (and I'm not the only one) that it applied to what you believe too... I think I should edit that

[Pineapple]

Now to actually state a counter-argument

Drugs. They give me some nice delusions. Is it perfectly okay to live in my world of drug-induced delusions?

[Ekki]

Now to actually state a counter-argument

Drugs. They give me some nice delusions. Is it perfectly okay to live in my world of drug-induced delusions?

That would be a discussion of another thread, but I guess I can answer once without being banned
If what you BELIEVE when you are on drugs makes some sense and has logic, thus being practically useful for a life, then it's only that. It wouldn't be as good because other factors can be taken in account, like the dependance/an addiction to the drug, and possible physical and psicological sequels, that make it a bad choice if you want to be really happy.
Let's put down an example. You see elephants as your gods, and make whatever they "said", like bathing when they make a particular sound or whatever. If that lets you have a happy life, it means that what you believe lets you have a regular life, or what you like as a life, thus meaning that your "understanding of elephants" is somehow correct. Maybe because of biological reasons, like them doing something in particular before it rains, that you understand as "go look for your umbrella impure mortal". The example is particularly exaggerated, and it's unlikely to have enough logic/sense to be practical. But the fact that many people believe in the same means they can have a "normal" life within that (so they don't die and stop being that many people as they are), and sometimes you can't just say "it's not true".

[Scaredgirl]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouija

Ok, I know that one. Here (

) is a good humorous "documentary" about that. Ouija board has been proven to be a hoax many many times. Scientifically speaking, there is absolutely no proof that it works or has ever worked, therefore I do not believe in it.

It's not believing that anything is possible without a proof. I agree that believing without evidence is childish, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't seem to accept that ET believes in this, and that is neglecting what ET said without giving it a try.

I do accept that ET believes in his experience, but a person believing in something means nothing without evidence. I do not really care what people believe in, I only care about the truth.

This is about burden of proof. I do not have to give every single supernatural claim a try, the person who made the claim has to convince me by giving evidence. It's like if someone says they were abducted by aliens, would you expect me to go stand in a corn field, waiting to be abducted as well, before I can question that claim? If I say Santa Claus exists, do you travel to North Pole and go look for him?

Difference between us two is that you have the common belief that anything is possible until proven otherwise, whereas I have a more rational approach of not believing in supernatural incidents based on hearsay and no actual evidence. And if you think your approach is better because you are more open-minded, please check out this video (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,33550.0.html).

This beliefs aren't always unconditional. Actually, if those beliefs allow people to live a happy life, and if it is happier than someone else that believes in something else, I don't see why he should change that. I don't see as childish to believe in something practically useful, because like it or not, there are proof, and the people who believe in this see these things repeating or whatever. No matter if it's a mind delusion or if it is real, if it's real for you that's enough.

I think it's intellectual dishonesty to let a person live with a delusion, no matter how happy that delusion might make that person. Our responsibility as fellow human beings is to help others to see the truth, not let them live with their delusions. Believing in something that is not real is not always dangerous to that person, but sometimes it is. And even if it's not dangerous, it's still a waste of time. We have very little time on this earth and we should spend it wisely. We cannot of course force people to discard every myth and delusion, but we can try to make them see the truth and act on their own.

Also there is no proof. If there is, please show me. Keep in mind that someone simply saying something happened proves absolutely nothing. The fact that people who believe in these kinds of things, see them happen all the time while others do not, only strengthens the theory that it's all made up. It's the same when religious people have divine experiences on a weekly basis, while atheists never experience anything like that. If a person wants to see miracles and supernatural things happen, they will see them happen. It's basic human psychology.

[Cel]

It's the same when religious people have divine experiences on a weekly basis, while atheists never experience anything like that. If a person wants to see miracles and supernatural things happen, they will see them happen. It's basic human psychology.

I would just like to point out that most people would say the reason why they are experiencing those miracles is because they asked their god/deity/higher power to grant them those things, and the reasons why atheists never experience things like that is because they do not believe/pray/give sacrifices.