Nerf shards in the Arena

[Zergva]

(Yes I've read the Oracle, but I don't want to open 4-7 topic for the same nerf idea). There would be a picture of SoFo, SoV, but I'll go through all of the shards, so just in order.

First, SoSac has a nerf in the Arena: The AI only plays only 6 per game. As I know it was in the 1.3 patch, after a little when shards came into metagame. In that time, the shard cost was  , so it was more in mono (in the most of cases) and less in Rainbow. Now they are more useful, cheaper and faster in mono, so the decks relying on them are better. And with Dexterity some of the gives too much advantage against the most of the decks, so I suggest that nerf to them too. As like:

Shard of Divinity | Shard of Divinity:


In mono- 12 SoDiv gives +288 max. HP and can be 420-488 depending on the original HP. With other healings and 2 Miracles it's nearly 1200-1500 HP at all (Not counting that the 2 Miracles is affected by the Dexterity to). Both of them is spell, so if you can't lock the AI hand for 2-3 turn with Silence, there not really a chance to stand against this.

Shard of Void | Shard of Void:


Within a price of an effect and the opposing effect is can't be declared easily. SoV does it's things slowly, but in a cruel way. But playing in a 30 card deck with 6 SoV and Dexterity is not really slow. It can stack 4-7 SoV easily and this is -12-21 max. life per turn, so a half negative SoDiv or more per turn. But despite of SoDiv, where you can deal damage, the max. HP reduction compensation is not a common thing. And with 12 of this makes PC useless.

Shard of Focus | Shard of Focus:


That's card is still in the 'nerf this card' thread in a good place. 12 SoFocus destroys up to 36 permanent (actually, you don't have that amount), but makes CC-ing them useless (Okay, every Dexterity makes the card destroy effect useless). For the Holy Cow's sake, the AI can't use SoFocus wisely, but still destroys every pend-pillar or anything.

Shard of Bravery | Shard of Bravery


In Arena, this is the rush-helper and a good deckout card too. Dexterity will draw 2 card, so a 30 card deck against a 30x2 card deck is deckouted in the 'same' time. SoBravery allows the AI to make the draw similar and 12 of it destroys up to 36 card from both deck. Yes, in the most of cases you won't play every pillar card to counter this effect, but this makes you slower too. And if Sanctuary played (the only reliable counter against it) it doesn't really counts if AI have a play lock in it. But if not, I think this restriction is needed.


Shard of Wisdom | Shard of Wisdom, Shard of Readiness | Shard of Readiness and Shard of Patience | Shard of Patience:
                                                                    

This can stay as it is. After the 2-3 on the field it's half as effective, so there's no reason to lock up to 6.

Shard of Freedom | Shard of Freedom:


It should, but I don't feel that must have been done.

Shard of Gratitude | Shard of Gratitude:


I'm against myself, but it can stay as it is. 60 healing per turn is the maximal, which is nearly the same as 2 Empathic Bond, just a bit more stable against PC-s.

I'll find Shard of Seperindity a fun card and Shard of Integrity too.

As seen, I've only suggested the restriction to the shards which does unique (and strong) things or combos.

[farscape]

I do not see Shard of Void being OP and overused in arena, on the other hand, Shard of Freedom is OP and overused. Of course, a limit of 6 would not do anything for it, so a different nerf is needed.

[omegareaper7]

So essentially you are mostly losing to stalls and want them nerfed? Because that is how it sounds. And that is not how balance it done.

[andretimpa]

I do not see Shard of Void being OP and overused in arena, on the other hand, Shard of Freedom is OP and overused. Of course, a limit of 6 would not do anything for it, so a different nerf is needed.

You need to go to plat to see SoV spam (good counter to Pdials), unlike SoFr and SoW that are spammed everywhere. The only thing I know that manages to counter it well is SoFo spam (aka Swallow), which is a sign that something is not right.

[Zergva]

I do not see Shard of Void being OP and overused in arena, on the other hand, Shard of Freedom is OP and overused. Of course, a limit of 6 would not do anything for it, so a different nerf is needed.

SoFocus is OP too, not just SoFree

Actually, this topic is not because these shards are OP in their own. Just there's a slight difference between if 3 SoFree annoys you or 12 of them. And that'S true with 2 or 8 SoVoid (I know that Dexterity only doubles). My point is: These card are rares and good, unique rares, but despite the normal cards you can't really use too much of them (as like, you can't really benefit from the 18. Pest in Pestal or the 7. Hourglass, the 3. shield in your hand...).

So essentially you are mostly losing to stalls and want them nerfed? Because that is how it sounds. And that is not how balance it done.

I wanted to say something, but I'm respect people more than swearing. And if I do that because it's beating one of my deck, why do I suggest this nearly nothing nerf? If a deck is abused by 12 SoV, it'll be the same as 6 too.
And I know how deck changing works, thanks...

[omegareaper7]

The difference between 6 shards and 12 is not small, it is rather large. Not only double the chance, but essentially double the effect when drawn. 36 is much more devastating then 18.

[Zergva]

The difference between 6 shards and 12 is not small, it is rather large. Not only double the chance, but essentially double the effect when drawn. 36 is much more devastating then 18.

Yes, that's why this suggestion for (And there's no double drawing chance, because relatively you have the same amount of shard in your deck). But if a deck is potentially beaten by stalls that's means the deck does weak damage or slow (or other reasons, so it'll be nearly the same result. But when a deck called 'stall' can win in 5-7 turn a bit insane. And stall breaking a stallbreaker (except if it has an OP shard in it) is insane too.

[Higurashi]

Meh. There are rushes that can win 40-45% against Plat. If anything I wouldn't mind Arena getting even harder.

[Zergva]

Meh. There are rushes that can win 40-45% against Plat. If anything I wouldn't mind Arena getting even harder.

Interesting concept, but it could be done with more intelligent AI ('AI used Acceleration on an overdriven creature, lols') and less randomness ('Oracle given me a Skeleton, noooooo'), not shard overusing.

[Higurashi]

It's not really done with overuse of Shards. The main reason Plat decks are strong is Dexterity and 200 HP. When arena came out, DBHbows were constantly at the top (no SoFo), and they can still get to the top, Dishole included. I've written down a few other deck types that have been in the top 10 after facing them, and most have been #1 at one point. I'll note when it's thanks to the Shards by calling them "Sharded".

Dune Scorp deck, currently at #1. Would be there without the few shards it has.
Timebows have several times gotten first. No shards, last time was just a few days ago. Dude spun Flesh Recluse.
Voidstall. Sharded.
Free Morning Glories, Damsels, Miracles. Sharded.
Monodark. No shards.
DBHbow. No shards.
Another DBHbow. No shards.
Monoearth. No shards.
FFQ deck. Sharded.
Ghostmare. No shards.
Ghostmare again. Sharded.
Discodeath. No shards.
Monodeath. Sharded.
Earth/Light. Did not need shards.
Earth/Gravity. No shards.
Monowater. No shards.

To give you an idea of whether I know if these decks need Shards or not to get to first: http://imgur.com/a/GzJ6e
I have the highest amount of recorded #1 spots in both Silver and Platinum, by FAR.

So the conclusion is: if you restrict shards even further, Arena decks won't actually have a lower winrate. It will simply narrow down the types of decks you can build in Arena if you want to get to #1. A small meta change is all it will accomplish.

This is when you have to ask yourself if you're really just tired of facing the same types of decks and that's why you want a meta change, or if you're just tired of the bland design of shards in general.

[Zergva]

It's not really done with overuse of Shards. The main reason Plat decks are strong is Dexterity and 200 HP. When arena came out, DBHbows were constantly at the top (no SoFo), and they can still get to the top, Dishole included. I've written down a few other deck types that have been in the top 10 after facing them, and most have been #1 at one point. I'll note when it's thanks to the Shards by calling them "Sharded".

Dune Scorp deck, currently at #1. Would be there without the few shards it has.
Timebows have several times gotten first. No shards, last time was just a few days ago. Dude spun Flesh Recluse.
Voidstall. Sharded.
Free Morning Glories, Damsels, Miracles. Sharded.
Monodark. No shards.
DHBow. No shards.
Another DBHbow. No shards.
Monoearth. No shards.
FFQ deck. Sharded.
Ghostmare. No shards.
Ghostmare again. Sharded.
Discodeath. No shards.
Monodeath. Sharded.
Earth/Light. Did not need shards.
Earth/Gravity. No shards.
Monowater. No shards.

To give you an idea of whether I know if these decks need Shards or not to get to first: http://imgur.com/a/GzJ6e
I have the highest amount of recorded #1 spots in both Silver and Platinum, by FAR.

So the conclusion is: if you restrict shards even further, Arena decks won't actually have a lower winrate. It will simply narrow down the types of decks you can build in Arena if you want to get to #1. A small meta change is all it will accomplish.

This is when you have to ask yourself if you're really just tired of facing the same types of decks and that's why you want a meta change, or if you're just tired of the bland design of shards in general.

Okay, the 'shard overuse' not was the right phrase for that thing. I don't said that the decks should be weaker or there are too much shard in the metagame, just there's a difference between fighting against a well-componed deck and against a '12 copy' spam with some additional card. It's a very special case and depending on luck.

In the most of cases there will be no difference (as like there are SoDiv+SoSac deck is the Arena too, even with the SoSac nerf (2.-3. nerf).

[Higurashi]

Seeing as the only Void deck that got first actually -needed- them, we can safely let that one stay unrestricted. SoSa allows for Monodeath to still get first, which, I think, is fair. The only ones that are spammed right now are SoFree and SoFo. SoFree is OP in any format, and SoFo is only OP with upped quanta sources and Dexterity.

Judging by this: "just there's a difference between fighting against a well-componed deck and against a '12 copy' spam with some additional card. It's a very special case and depending on luck", you fall into the second category: people who are simply tired of the design of shards. But you have to narrow it down even further: with SoFo and SoFree being the only ones spammed right now and the only ones these few decks actually -need- to get to first, it stands to reason these are the ones you want restricted the most.

SoSa dominated when you were able to pack 12 of them in an Arena deck. Restricting SoFo would definitely help, but we'd still get Disholes, Monogravys and DBHbows in first, SoFos or not, and they'd still spam down your perms pretty fast even with "only" 6 SoFo's. Still, it'd happen less often. SoFree wouldn't be nearly as affected by a copy limit: it still works fine off of 6 copies.