[Official] Shard of Wisdom | Shard of Wisdom

[kira666]

If you play against Arena, with Intellect and Dexterity boost, high cost is no problem and 2-card combo are easy to get and to play. Even a 3-card combo is nice, as you dont empty your hand to do it.
Phase Dragon + Shard of Wisdom
High cost? Remember that a simple 6 Phase Dragon + 6 Phase Shield + 18 Aether Pillar is hard to beat. Imagine if your shields don't work.

But, as I play more and more Plat arena, I see the main problem:
A deck that you have no winning chance. You see the first card and say: I lost.
It's not fun!
The main problem: Morning Glory + Flying Weapon + SoW
I never quit. I play, but I lose.
Phase Dragon + SoW... I can try hard and win.
But Light has Miracle!

[Laxadarap]

If you play against Arena, with Intellect and Dexterity boost, high cost is no problem and 2-card combo are easy to get and to play. Even a 3-card combo is nice, as you dont empty your hand to do it.
Phase Dragon + Shard of Wisdom
High cost? Remember that a simple 6 Phase Dragon + 6 Phase Shield + 18 Aether Pillar is hard to beat. Imagine if your shields don't work.

But, as I play more and more Plat arena, I see the main problem:
A deck that you have no winning chance. You see the first card and say: I lost.
It's not fun!
The main problem: Morning Glory + Flying Weapon + SoW
I never quit. I play, but I lose.
Phase Dragon + SoW... I can try hard and win.
But Light has Miracle!

This isn't really relevant in the context, Platinum arena is supposed to be the most difficult opponent to face, think to FG farmers, there are certain FG's that are autoquit anyway, platinum should have either more autoquits than FG's, or it should have a bunch of decks that are possible, but very hard to beat.  You can almost put any combination of cards in a plat deck and have it do well, you can't call a combo OP based on what it does with 12 of a card and 3 times as much quanta, as well as twice as much time to do it in.

[kira666]

This isn't really relevant in the context, Platinum arena is supposed to be the most difficult opponent to face, think to FG farmers, there are certain FG's that are autoquit anyway, platinum should have either more autoquits than FG's, or it should have a bunch of decks that are possible, but very hard to beat.  You can almost put any combination of cards in a plat deck and have it do well, you can't call a combo OP based on what it does with 12 of a card and 3 times as much quanta, as well as twice as much time to do it in.

The most difficult opponent to face, but faceable, not only by extreme luck.
I used to hate SoSac. I still hate. But SoSac decks are now faceable. You don't just watch the deck kills you, you can put some strategy and win. You don't even need a Purify to win.
SoW, on the other side, can only be countered by those two shields. If you don't have them, you lose.
You can't put speed: if you are full speed, you can't avoid those Phase Shields.
If you play some PC, your lack of speed gives time for your opponent plays Miracle and you lose.

[ARTHANASIOS]

Just to mention something; Psions and Recluses are good but are not immortal and must be Quintessenced in order to be combined with SoW. On the other hand, Immortal and Phase Dragons were always too expensive to be used effectively and that CC immunity of theirs is quite situational for being an excuse for their high cost. So, I agree with Meowww here, SoW is fine as it is, it actually makes Immortals quite reliable now.

If the cost of Immortals is higher than the value of an Immortal then an Immortal only buff can have a higher value than the cost of the buff?
Your reasoning (assuming true premises) results in balance but poor design (UP+OP and forced combo).

Actually, that's exactly what I am assuming. Here we have an extreme way to balance things. Immortals slightly UP without SoW, while Immortals slighly OP with SoW.

[OldTrees]

Just to mention something; Psions and Recluses are good but are not immortal and must be Quintessenced in order to be combined with SoW. On the other hand, Immortal and Phase Dragons were always too expensive to be used effectively and that CC immunity of theirs is quite situational for being an excuse for their high cost. So, I agree with Meowww here, SoW is fine as it is, it actually makes Immortals quite reliable now.

If the cost of Immortals is higher than the value of an Immortal then an Immortal only buff can have a higher value than the cost of the buff?
Your reasoning (assuming true premises) results in balance but poor design (UP+OP and forced combo).

Actually, that's exactly what I am assuming. Here we have an extreme way to balance things. Immortals slightly UP without SoW, while Immortals slighly OP with SoW.

Aka balance but poor design. I think we can do better. Based on your premises, buffing Immortals and then nerfing SoW is the correct move.

[Laxadarap]

This isn't really relevant in the context, Platinum arena is supposed to be the most difficult opponent to face, think to FG farmers, there are certain FG's that are autoquit anyway, platinum should have either more autoquits than FG's, or it should have a bunch of decks that are possible, but very hard to beat.  You can almost put any combination of cards in a plat deck and have it do well, you can't call a combo OP based on what it does with 12 of a card and 3 times as much quanta, as well as twice as much time to do it in.

The most difficult opponent to face, but faceable, not only by extreme luck.
I used to hate SoSac. I still hate. But SoSac decks are now faceable. You don't just watch the deck kills you, you can put some strategy and win. You don't even need a Purify to win.
SoW, on the other side, can only be countered by those two shields. If you don't have them, you lose.
You can't put speed: if you are full speed, you can't avoid those Phase Shields.
If you play some PC, your lack of speed gives time for your opponent plays Miracle and you lose.

So your claiming that this is a huge part of the meta.  Also I'm confused, morning glory decks don't have phase shields.  Think of it this way, if the meta is one way, you have to change your decks.  I can think of 1 extremely common deck that totally wrecks this, and many other strategies (however, sofo owns it, pick your poison) and another that will win without any sancs/miracles.  Also, your talking about miracle balance in a SoW thread (infact this entire debate is kind of off topic).  Miracle is balanced in normal play, and slightly OP in "FG" play because it grants you more than twice the hp gain.  Again, plat is harder than FG's.  With an FG winrate at 65% or so, it seems normal that a deck in plat would win half the time, and you can't tell me 1/2 decks are SoW miracle decks, (1/2 sofo I would agree, but thats a different thread)

[kira666]

So your claiming that this is a huge part of the meta.  Also I'm confused, morning glory decks don't have phase shields.  Think of it this way, if the meta is one way, you have to change your decks.  I can think of 1 extremely common deck that totally wrecks this, and many other strategies (however, sofo owns it, pick your poison) and another that will win without any sancs/miracles.  Also, your talking about miracle balance in a SoW thread (infact this entire debate is kind of off topic).  Miracle is balanced in normal play, and slightly OP in "FG" play because it grants you more than twice the hp gain.  Again, plat is harder than FG's.  With an FG winrate at 65% or so, it seems normal that a deck in plat would win half the time, and you can't tell me 1/2 decks are SoW miracle decks, (1/2 sofo I would agree, but thats a different thread)

Ok, I agree. Its metagame.
It just pisses me off. I have a good and fun deck, win ~40%, half of them is EM. Its versatile and I overcome most decks by playing right cards at right moment. Plat Arena may draw 2 cards, generates 2x quanta and have 200HP, but AI is not that smart.
But then there is a single card with barely no counters that give me no winning chance. It's not fun to play. It lacks synergy with most of the game. You don't even have to think (and thats why AI uses it so well).

[meowww]

Ok, I agree. Its metagame.
It just pisses me off. I have a good and fun deck, win ~40%, half of them is EM. Its versatile and I overcome most decks by playing right cards at right moment. Plat Arena may draw 2 cards, generates 2x quanta and have 200HP, but AI is not that smart.
But then there is a single card with barely no counters that give me no winning chance. It's not fun to play. It lacks synergy with most of the game. You don't even have to think (and thats why AI uses it so well).

And that is why ONLY AI can stomp with it, they takes 200HP, 2 draws, 3 marks, a 120 Deck to beat your 100HP, 1 draw, 1 mark deck.
with only 100HP, 1 draw, 1 mark, no matter how well you play, you just barely meet the par with this card.

Plus, if you talking about Arena issue, SoDiv + Miracle with good stall/deny/Control are even more annoying.

[redeyesly]

It shouldn't matter that its not in half the decks, like sofo is. This card is just dumb. Nobody should be able to win with 1 creature buffed 12 times. Removing the +atk component would easily solve this. It still gives the intended upgrade to immortals, without making it a spammable instant-win. Immortals don't need an upgrade anyway, they only have one possible counter, which this card takes away. Taking an OP card and making it more OP doesn't make any sense to me.

[meowww]

It shouldn't matter that its not in half the decks, like sofo is. This card is just dumb. Nobody should be able to win with 1 creature buffed 12 times. Removing the +atk component would easily solve this. It still gives the intended upgrade to immortals, without making it a spammable instant-win. Immortals don't need an upgrade anyway, they only have one possible counter, which this card takes away. Taking an OP card and making it more OP doesn't make any sense to me.

Why nobody should win with buffs?
There are DO, rush, SoV, poison, Anti-Vampire, spells, UG and much more ways to win, is there any reason to barring a mega-buffed creature from the list?
And by 12 times, do you meant that is an Arena issue? Arena deck are intended to be OP, hence there are handsome rewards.

Yes it is spammable, only after you put down an expensive creature, by the time a fire rush is doing 20 damage per turn and already done 30, it is no mean justify to say this is anywhere close to "instant-win."

And immortals do need helps.
Yes they are nontargetable, but they cost 6 and a card slot (which worths around another 2 cost) to deal 4 damage per turn, and still have their weakness (Lot-of shields before SoW, another 2 shields after SoW.)
6 immortals only deal 24 damages even there are no shields, all six in the deck, almost as low as poison, nobody can win with this tiny damage.

Those SoW do helps, monument do the same, while they are not quinted, monumented creatures can receive other buffs, Wismortals must stick with that 6 per deck SoW.

What if you get 3 towers, 1 immortal, 5 SoW as your first 9 cards of a once-a-year draws?
You are just doing 24 damage at 3rd turn, when Fire got their once-a-year draw, you'd already dead in the next turn...

[OdinVanguard]

I think the shard is pretty well balanced as is... although i do think its a little too element specific.

I agree that adding in more spell damage counters (not necessarily more shields... creatures could work here too) would be the best way to mitigate it if needed (though I'm not 100% convinced that this is necessary at this point).

The only thing i dont really like is that you are practically forced into using to make use of it (for quintescence)
the only exceptions being:
1) Flying Morning Glory
2) Seraphs (but the spell damage disappears)
This suggests need of a buff rather than nerf though...

[vivimancer]

Ok, a friend and I were discussing SoW.  In my head cannon this is immortals spending ages reading dusty tomes and reserching new ways to hit elementals.

What if SoW gives +4 att/-1 HP, meaning a Immortal with 4 SoWs would die (or become so frail it keels over.) which mean you could use it agressively on your opponents creatures?