[Official] Shard of Wisdom | Shard of Wisdom

[SnoWeb]

I just dumbly created a thread similar to this one without seeing it was already existing. Here was my arguments:



My issue with SoW is not really on the shard itself but on the new status it gives to immortal creatures.
Before SoW, immortal creatures (as well as burrowed creatures) could not be targeted. It meant that they neither could be buffed nor injured via spell or ability (they still could be injured by shields). Fine.
Since SoW, they still can not be injured via spell or ability but they can now be buffed. Burrowed did not change.
Each of this buffs grant a +4 attack which is unseen anywhere. Consequently, you can now face creatures (6 or 12 times +4 on a single immortal hurts a lot) with a higher and higher attack which still cannot be injured via spell or ability.
True, 2 hard counter and several soft counters (in the form of shields) exists. It is still IMO not sufficient because of the whole untargetability thing.
Another issue is the combination with SoI. It can produce immortal golem themselves very powerful and against which the hard counters don't even exists.

[furballdn]

If you're upset 2 SoW = immortality, that's a nerf for SoI, not SoW.

[meowww]

SoWis is bonded to Ather, and Ather are lack of muscle (High cost, almost no buff usable, low basic attack), and prone to deny(High cost), SoWis just raise them to the par.
I am petty sure it is more than ten cards to be nerfed before SoWis should be nerfed.

[eaglgenes101]

SoWis is bonded to Ather, and Ather are lack of muscle (High cost, almost no buff usable, low basic attack), and prone to deny(High cost), SoWis just raise them to the par.
I am petty sure it is more than ten cards to be nerfed before SoWis should be nerfed.

It also has Dim shield. Mono aether was already powerful enough without SoW.

[meowww]

SoWis is bonded to Ather, and Ather are lack of muscle (High cost, almost no buff usable, low basic attack), and prone to deny(High cost), SoWis just raise them to the par.
I am petty sure it is more than ten cards to be nerfed before SoWis should be nerfed.

It also has Dim shield. Mono aether was already powerful enough without SoW.

Aether only counters CC based decks or muscle decks, deny and PC counters Aether, hard, regen, heal and walls also counters mono-Aether.
If there are any non-shard mono-aether impressive enough to mention, I would like to have a look.

[furballdn]

SoWis is bonded to Ather, and Ather are lack of muscle (High cost, almost no buff usable, low basic attack), and prone to deny(High cost), SoWis just raise them to the par.
I am petty sure it is more than ten cards to be nerfed before SoWis should be nerfed.

It also has Dim shield. Mono aether was already powerful enough without SoW.

Aether only counters CC based decks or muscle decks, deny and PC counters Aether, hard, regen, heal and walls also counters mono-Aether.
If there are any non-shard mono-aether impressive enough to mention, I would like to have a look.

Off topic, but here:

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Spells are for wusses!
???=Psion

Phase recluse is fantastic being 7|2 for 4 . Psion is 5|5 for 4 and most shield bypass. Aether also has TU for 6 for extra damage.

Don't underestimate Aether's speed in pure offense.

[meowww]

SoWis is bonded to Ather, and Ather are lack of muscle (High cost, almost no buff usable, low basic attack), and prone to deny(High cost), SoWis just raise them to the par.
I am petty sure it is more than ten cards to be nerfed before SoWis should be nerfed.

It also has Dim shield. Mono aether was already powerful enough without SoW.

Aether only counters CC based decks or muscle decks, deny and PC counters Aether, hard, regen, heal and walls also counters mono-Aether.
If there are any non-shard mono-aether impressive enough to mention, I would like to have a look.

Off topic, but here:

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6rk 6rk 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 80g 80g 80g 80g 80g 80g 80l 80l 80l 80l 80l 80l 81q 81q 81q 81q 81q 81q 81q 81q 8pu

Spells are for wusses!
???=Psion

Phase recluse is fantastic being 7|2 for 4 . Psion is 5|5 for 4 and most shield bypass. Aether also has TU for 6 for extra damage.

Don't underestimate Aether's speed in pure offense.

I have to admit Aether able to build a good simple rushing deck.
But in this way, we skipped all SoWis receptor, also the Dim shields, is there any way to bring some love to them?

[furballdn]

I feel like I'm going horribly off topic, but at least this is pertaining to aether which is a bit relevant to SoW I suppose.

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[ARTHANASIOS]

Just to mention something; Psions and Recluses are good but are not immortal and must be Quintessenced in order to be combined with SoW. On the other hand, Immortal and Phase Dragons were always too expensive to be used effectively and that CC immunity of theirs is quite situational for being an excuse for their high cost. So, I agree with Meowww here, SoW is fine as it is, it actually makes Immortals quite reliable now.

[OldTrees]

Just to mention something; Psions and Recluses are good but are not immortal and must be Quintessenced in order to be combined with SoW. On the other hand, Immortal and Phase Dragons were always too expensive to be used effectively and that CC immunity of theirs is quite situational for being an excuse for their high cost. So, I agree with Meowww here, SoW is fine as it is, it actually makes Immortals quite reliable now.

If the cost of Immortals is higher than the value of an Immortal then an Immortal only buff can have a higher value than the cost of the buff?
Your reasoning (assuming true premises) results in balance but poor design (UP+OP and forced combo).

[meowww]

I feel like I'm going horribly off topic, but at least this is pertaining to aether which is a bit relevant to SoW I suppose.

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I was trying to prove SoW is not OP because it rely on some otherwise weak cards to make a combo, this combo just slight better than Charger + blessing.
While Charger itself doing some reasonable damage without placing a spell on it, and not going to damage yourself.

As I said before, now we have some good creatures in Aether, but without SoW, those SoW relevant creature or spells almost only being counter against CC.

I don't think we should focus on a single card to tell it is OP or UP, we should look at what a card can interact with.

For the overall combo:
UP? It traded something for its stability.
OP? Still situational, and counterable.
Not the best design? Maybe, though IMO some card without much variability, is a variability in the game itself.

[OldTrees]

I don't think we should focus on a single card to tell it is OP or UP, we should look at what a card can interact with.

For the overall combo:
UP? It traded something for its stability.
OP? Still situational, and counterable.
Not the best design? Maybe, though IMO some card without much variability, is a variability in the game itself.

Yes, we should look at the cards that a card interacts with but not to the point that a pair of cards are separate in name only.
Immortal was intended to be a card in its own right. SoW was intended to have Immortal as a valid target.
Immortal and Immortal + SoW must both be balanced. My comment about possibly being poor design is only the case if at least one of these cases in imbalanced.