Poll

How should the shard be nerfed?

The shard is balanced already
25 (31.6%)
Make attack boost part of the status effect
6 (7.6%)
Reduce the damage increase
25 (31.6%)
Increase the cost
9 (11.4%)
Other (please suggest)
14 (17.7%)

Total Members Voted: 79

*Author

Offline Cannibal7

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 67
  • Country: gr
  • Reputation Power: 2
  • Cannibal7 is a Spark waiting for a buff.
  • they call me Corpsedancer.. aka CD :D
Re: Shard of Wisdom https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40392.msg523937#msg523937
« Reply #48 on: July 21, 2012, 10:23:42 am »
and this is the deck i use 2 farm silver that uses SoW
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
61t 61t 61t 61t 61v 61v 6rt 6rt 6rt 6rt 6rt 6s5 6s5 6s5 6s5 6s5 6s5 808 808 808 808 808 80e 80f 81q 81q 81q 81q 81q 81q 8pu

Offline Absol

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2383
  • Country: id
  • Reputation Power: 35
  • Absol is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Absol is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Absol is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Absol is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Absol is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Absol is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Absol is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.
  • Consectetur Adipiscing Elit
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 4th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday Cake
Re: Shard of Wisdom https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40392.msg523942#msg523942
« Reply #49 on: July 21, 2012, 10:44:16 am »
Problem with SoW are:
1. it requires either immortal creatures or immortality granting creatures. (= semi forced combo, since it has no usage not involving :aether)
2. Its counters are too situational.

So, to fix it:
1. Make it work on mortals. Deal spell damage with reduced attack buff.
2. Increase the reflective's usage, like done with purify.
"Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum, quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit."
"There is no one who loves pain itself, who seeks after it and wants to have it, simply because it is pain."

Offline OldTrees

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10297
  • Reputation Power: 114
  • OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.
  • I was available for questions.
  • Awards: Brawl #2 Winner - Team FireTeam Card Design Winner
Re: Shard of Wisdom https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40392.msg524020#msg524020
« Reply #50 on: July 21, 2012, 06:09:39 pm »
Problem with SoW are:
1. it requires either immortal creatures or immortality granting creatures. (= semi forced combo, since it has no usage not involving :aether)
2. Its counters are too situational.

So, to fix it:
1. Make it work on mortals. Deal spell damage with reduced attack buff.
2. Increase the reflective's usage, like done with purify.
I like your solution to the problem.

PS: Animated morning star.
Still a problem though.
"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
"Nothing exists that cannot be countered." -OldTrees on indirect counters
Ask the Idea Guru: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.0.htm

Offline bobknows

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 222
  • Country: us
  • Reputation Power: 4
  • bobknows is a Spark waiting for a buff.
Re: Shard of Wisdom https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40392.msg524162#msg524162
« Reply #51 on: July 22, 2012, 04:03:30 am »
Also SoR'ed anubis.

Idk about how to nerf it. As it is, 4 damage for 3|1  :rainbow seems OP but it isnt really used outside of monos, so i guess its closer to 3|1 :underworld

Offline Annele

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2071
  • Country: nz
  • Reputation Power: 34
  • Annele is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.Annele is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.Annele is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.Annele is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.Annele is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.Annele is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.
  • i should really update my profile
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 12th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 11th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 5th Birthday CakeC-C-C Combomaker 3# WinnerSlice of Elements 4th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday Cake
Re: Shard of Wisdom https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40392.msg525258#msg525258
« Reply #52 on: July 25, 2012, 07:43:52 am »
So, to fix it:
1. Make it work on mortals. Deal spell damage with reduced attack buff.
2. Increase the reflective's usage, like done with purify.

I like these, the first one would probably be easier to implement, and (imo) should only increase attack by 2 for mortals.
The second would require new cards, which is cool, though at the current stage of the game it would probably be better to implement cards that expand the game. However, if I had to choose one mechanic in the game to build on, it'd be reflective, as it needs some love.
Beware the Darkness.

Offline Captain Scibra

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1345
  • Reputation Power: 20
  • Captain Scibra is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.Captain Scibra is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.Captain Scibra is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.Captain Scibra is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.
  • Do Domhantarraingt. Dúinn go léir.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 7th Birthday Cake8th Trials - Master of GravitySlice of Elements 3rd Birthday Cake
Re: Shard of Wisdom https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40392.msg525610#msg525610
« Reply #53 on: July 26, 2012, 03:17:55 am »
Suggestion:  Make it applicable to only mortal creatures, and that giving it immortality gives the buff.  In essence this switches the order of application of effects, requiring more synergy to use to its potential, but also being an Other card in place of Momentum.
Rule #1: The Captain is never wrong.  Rule #2: If the Captain is wrong, refer to Rule #1.
The New Card Theory Thread

Offline jawdirk

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 367
  • Reputation Power: 7
  • jawdirk is a Spark waiting for a buff.
Re: Shard of Wisdom https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40392.msg525624#msg525624
« Reply #54 on: July 26, 2012, 03:50:16 am »
Suggestion:  Make it applicable to only mortal creatures, and that giving it immortality gives the buff.  In essence this switches the order of application of effects, requiring more synergy to use to its potential, but also being an Other card in place of Momentum.

This is a good idea, but I like that SoW is a way (in combination with reflective shield) to counter an immortal creature. I would prefer if it could target any creature, but only got the bonus damage if the creature was immortal.

Offline Kardo

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 51
  • Reputation Power: 2
  • Kardo is a Spark waiting for a buff.
Re: Shard of Wisdom https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40392.msg526098#msg526098
« Reply #55 on: July 27, 2012, 02:21:16 am »
Like Captain Scibra and jawdirk. Basically:

-Target creature deals spell damage.
-If creature is immaterial, gain +4/+0

Though as previously suggested I'd also like to see Spell damage ignore DR from shields but still be susceptible to the effects of the shield such as Freeze, Poison, Gravity, etc. This way it is a little more separate from Momentum. The attack boost is the advantage to immaterial creatures. It's marginally useful on non-immaterial creatures.

Might it be OP using it on your opponents creatures with a reflective shield? Comparable to Antimatter really. Bit cheaper but requires an initial 2-card combo and takes up the shield slot.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 02:24:03 am by Kardo »

Offline furballdn

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7573
  • Reputation Power: 86
  • furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.
  • Facetious trollnotmod
  • Awards: Epic 3 Card Winner - Clockwork GolemBest Recruiter of FriendsBest JournalistBest Chat PainterBattle - Slayer of The Great ChimeraBest Crafted Relic of Other
Re: Shard of Wisdom https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40392.msg526100#msg526100
« Reply #56 on: July 27, 2012, 02:27:39 am »
Like Captain Scibra and jawdirk. Basically:

-Target creature deals spell damage.
-If creature is immaterial, gain +4/+0

Though as previously suggested I'd also like to see Spell damage ignore DR from shields but still be susceptible to the effects of the shield such as Freeze, Poison, Gravity, etc. This way it is a little more separate from Momentum. The attack boost is the advantage to immaterial creatures. It's marginally useful on non-immaterial creatures.

Might it be OP using it on your opponents creatures with a reflective shield? Comparable to Antimatter really. Bit cheaper but requires an initial 2-card combo and takes up the shield slot.
That makes it overshadow momentum most of the time. It also strengthens the reflect combo. The reflect combo usually requires 3 :aether + 1 :other + 2 cards for a single creature. Without the need for quint, it is just a 1 :other liquid antimatter combo.

Offline Kardo

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 51
  • Reputation Power: 2
  • Kardo is a Spark waiting for a buff.
Re: Shard of Wisdom https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40392.msg526104#msg526104
« Reply #57 on: July 27, 2012, 02:43:46 am »
That makes it overshadow momentum most of the time.
I think you may have misunderstood what I meant.

As it is now SoW is (in my opinion) a more situational version of momentum that gives a high attack boost. If creatures dealing spell damage were still influenced by the shield's effect then the creatures no longer ignore most shields, but rather just ignore the DR from them. For Diamond/Tower shield it would be comparable to Momentum, otherwise it's essentially a 0-3 attack boost depending on the DR of the opponent's shield. Though I realize this is a big "If" since this isn't how it currently works.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 02:50:54 am by Kardo »

Offline furballdn

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7573
  • Reputation Power: 86
  • furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.
  • Facetious trollnotmod
  • Awards: Epic 3 Card Winner - Clockwork GolemBest Recruiter of FriendsBest JournalistBest Chat PainterBattle - Slayer of The Great ChimeraBest Crafted Relic of Other
Re: Shard of Wisdom https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40392.msg526145#msg526145
« Reply #58 on: July 27, 2012, 05:53:47 am »
Is it? I really saw SoW for only 3 purposes:

1. Speeds up mono aether with huge attack boosts (is it really necessary with psion and recluse?)
2. Be able to buff up your immortal creatures like golems (needs an extra card as a combo, but this is half defensive, half offensive)
3. Be used to reflect opponent's stuff (is a pure defense variant, sort of like liquid antimatter)

But if you wanna get down to it, shield bypass is probably worth +2 in cost. +4atk along with spell damage should probably have this at around 6 :underworld. Really depends on how much you feel the "mandatory quint" counts as a penalty (in this case, around 5 :rainbow).


Offline Graub

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 37
  • Reputation Power: 1
  • Graub is a Spark waiting for a buff.
  • New to Elements
Re: Shard of Wisdom https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40392.msg529163#msg529163
« Reply #59 on: August 05, 2012, 06:12:52 am »
how about if Sow removed immortality?

My first tought when i saw SoW for the first time. I tried to kill the creature :)

 

anything
blarg: