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[Official] Shard of Sacrifice | Shard of Sacrifice https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39183.msg487439#msg487439
« on: April 25, 2012, 10:20:10 pm »


this shard got no efficient counter
may it should be a permanent with charges, and every turn it loses one charge.
so it would be destroyable
« Last Edit: April 22, 2015, 02:19:33 am by Treldon »
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Offline Drake_XIV

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Re: nerf shard of sacrifice https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39183.msg487440#msg487440
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2012, 10:20:52 pm »
I take it you haven't seen the new Purify.

Also, this

Offline furballdn

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Re: nerf shard of sacrifice https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39183.msg487663#msg487663
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2012, 04:33:19 am »
No counter? Holy light, purify, vampires, antimatter.

Terrible troll.

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Re: nerf shard of sacrifice https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39183.msg487676#msg487676
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2012, 05:15:08 am »
No counter? Holy light, purify, vampires, antimatter.

Terrible troll.
Incorrect. He claimed

this shard got no efficient counter
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SoSac balancing https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39183.msg487715#msg487715
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2012, 09:07:38 am »
I am just having a thought

What if instead of 48hp | 40hp cost of SoSac, it is changed to 48%max hp | 40%max hp cost??

This way it will better prevent decks spamming it alongside with SoD but does not nerf in anyway decks that does not increase max hp.

Why? Because I feel SoSac is somewhat balance on 100hp decks, but when its on 200hp arena decks, or some extreme 300 or 400hp decks, it just gets too much...

Offline sunyata

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Re: nerf shard of sacrifice https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39183.msg498202#msg498202
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2012, 03:12:26 pm »
this shard got no efficient counter

That's definitely not true any more since the changes to purify (in fact before the purify bluff, there were a host of other effective ways to counter sosac, but other threads exist on those).  However, I've been watching the effects of purify on sosac with interest and I think that sosac still should be nerfed.  Essentially, what has happened is that sosac was an extremely op card (on which nearly everyone agreed).  To deal with this, rather than nerf sosac itself, counters to it such as sop and (especially) purify were strengthened.  So the situation now is that there exists an extremely powerful card with an extremely effective counter to it.  So, how does this affect the metagame?  With the changes, the metagame evolved in a fairly predictable manner.  To deal with the high prevalence of sosac decks, a large proportion of decks started to carry purify.  This made it haredr to win with sosac, so fewer people started to use sosac decks.  Following the reduced number of sosac decks around, less people felt the need to  include purify.  An equilibrium has been reached in which there are fewer sosac decks around than b4 purify buff, and also fewer decks designed to counter sosac.

It might be tempting to decide that this is a satisfactory solution.  After all, the chance of winning with a sosac deck has been severely reduced and the number of sosac decks has fallen accordingly.   But the reason I maintain that sosac still needs to be nerfed is that even so, it continues to exert a disproportionately high influence on the metagame.  This is because it remains necessary for a significant fraction of decks to carry sosac counters in order to keep sosac decks at bay and to confer 'herd immunity' against them.  Any card that exerts this high level of influence on the metagame remains OP.


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Re: nerf shard of sacrifice https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39183.msg498210#msg498210
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2012, 03:30:26 pm »
this shard got no efficient counter
may it should be a permanent with charges, and every turn it loses one charge.
so it would be destroyable
I like morph's idea. It would still be a powerful card but counters would be a little more accessible. The buff to purify helps a little, but its not really an efficient solution since it forces decks to carry them, essentially, just to counter a single card.
Alternatively, SoSac could be made as a stack, like boneshield. That way PC would act as a means to reduce duration, while purify could be made to remove the stack and buff entirely.
Steal would become an amusing semi-counter then as well (1 round of reverse damage for you, 1 less for opponent)
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Offline Little Lord

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Re: nerf shard of sacrifice https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39183.msg499334#msg499334
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2012, 03:05:40 pm »
this shard got no efficient counter

 Any card that exerts this high level of influence on the metagame remains OP.

This. Also on the old forums i explained why SoSa is so powerful: It gets benefits from from both permanents and spells.

Every other card that has an effect over time (more than 1 turn) becomes a permanent and therefore can be countered.
Spells have an immediate effect only once, and therefore cant be countered. SoSa gets the benefit of two worlds. So to nerf it purify as a counter got the same benefits.

That is naive: Instead of creating a solution to the problem, we tried to solve it by creating "more of the same" (Watzlawick, anyone?).
You can not fight fire with fire in this situation!

I was always voting for making it a permanent, since that would fit the mechanics as we knew them before this whole mess.
Alternatively i recently thought that making the lifeloss permanent (like Shard of Void does) would be a nice nerf, too.
It would force tactical use of the card, and the shard of divinity - synergy would be buffed and nerfed at the same time.

What do you think about that?

Offline Totila

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Re: SoSac balancing https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39183.msg505973#msg505973
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2012, 10:37:37 pm »
I am just having a thought

What if instead of 48hp | 40hp cost of SoSac, it is changed to 48%max hp | 40%max hp cost??

This way it will better prevent decks spamming it alongside with SoD but does not nerf in anyway decks that does not increase max hp.

Why? Because I feel SoSac is somewhat balance on 100hp decks, but when its on 200hp arena decks, or some extreme 300 or 400hp decks, it just gets too much...

totally agree with you, when it's used by the AI, maybe in an arena deck with 200hp, it uses 2-3 SoDivinity and chain 4/5 SoSac, It's really boring, change something
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Shard of Sacrifice | Shard of Sacrifice https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39183.msg513581#msg513581
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2012, 08:40:48 pm »


Probably one of the biggest examples of sloppy execution alongside Shard of Focus, Shard of Sacrifice has been one of the most annoying cards in the game due to its splashability.  While recently nerfed by the recent buff to Purify, Purify is still a situational card at best that doesn't prevent SoSac from appearing in any deck ranging from a rush to a stall - even worse is that players wielding SoSac can immediately empty their hands if they have enough SoSacs to quickly stack on the timer, to the point where I've seen 6 to 10-turn SoSac fields in the Arena being deployed in the first few turns if succesful.

After a discussion with ETG chat, I'd like to propose the following nerf : SoSac should require a :death creature to be sacrificed in order to trigger.

Reasons for this effect:

- If you pay attention, you'll notice that some of the more adequately balanced shards fit decks that can be associated with their Elements - Divinity and Gratitude support healing stalls (a major theme in :light / :life ) , Serendipity supports rainbows (which :entropy excels in), Bravery fits aggression and rushing (one of :fire 's traits), and so on. The effect of sacrificing a :death creature is not only thematically fitting of the card but prevents SoSa from being splashed in decks that wield no creatures, forcing players to consider the worth of the creatures they sacrifice.

- The creature is specified as :death to prevent players from splashing Photons in and simply waiting through a few extra cards. Given the presence of the ability to increase drawpower such as Electrum Hourglass or Arena Modification, it's possible that letting a SoSa user sacrifice any creature would simply weaken the splashability a very small amount instead of giving the considerable weight needed when using it in a deck. Splashing Skeletons also becomes an option, which is quite helpful for such an underused card.

- Sacrificing a creature make SoSa a two-card combo to operate successfully instead of an 'instant-play when you have 48 | 40> HP', which means players will have increased difficulty setting up for a combo while maintaining steady creature presence if the opponent wields CC. However it also provide inherent synergy with Death trigger cards like Graveyard, allowing you to benefit even if your 'sacrifices' were killed beforehand.

So what do you think? Feel free to give your feedback. I've also put up several variations of the proposed nerf on the poll due to the variety of opinions on it.


Special thanks to ddevans96, Laxadarap, Higurashi, Calindu, mesaprotector, Cheesy111 and the rest of ETG chat, for being involved in discussion.  Credit to ddevans96 as well for a previous version of this suggestion and Higurashi for the concept of minimum cost sacrifice.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2012, 08:57:39 pm by Zblader »

Offline Higurashi

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Re: Shard of Sacrifice | Shard of Sacrifice https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39183.msg513583#msg513583
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2012, 08:50:13 pm »
SoSac should require a :death creature with a minimum cost of X to be sacrificed in order to trigger.

The cost I proposed for a separate card (Sacrificial Altar) was 2, to prevent Virus and Skeleton abuse with BW. With SoSa, that's not an issue since it conflicts with BW, but a cost would still be good. Sac a Vulture if you like, it needs to have some kind of cost, especially with Catchers in mind.
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Offline russianspy1234

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Re: Shard of Sacrifice | Shard of Sacrifice https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39183.msg513584#msg513584
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2012, 08:51:22 pm »
Most of the other shards work better in-element, but don't require being in-element the way your nerf does.  Now, sacrificing a creature is a good idea, however I would say sacrifice any creature for a 1 turn shield, death creature for a 2 turn shield.
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