[Official] Shard of Focus | Shard of Focus

[kimham8a]

Could the OP please remove some of the less popular nerfs from the poll? It's messy.

[ItzSean]

Dunno if i posted here or not, but here goes. I just say give it a  activation cost of 1 or 2 and call it good.

[OldTrees]

Dunno if i posted here or not, but here goes. I just say give it a  activation cost of 1 or 2 and call it good.

Shards are meant to be useful for any element. A mono Life deck could not use SoFo if it required  .

[ItzSean]

Shards are meant to be useful for any element. A mono Life deck could not use SoFo if it required  .

..EXACTLY. It's that fact alone that makes it such an overpowered card. Yes, it has 1 hp upon playing, yes it has a 7 play cost, please dont waste your breath typing out the typical 'Everything has a counter.' response or 'You lost to it, so that must mean it's OP.'

BUT, the fact that ANY DECK can use this card and have PC now because of it. And besides.. You rarely see SoW outside mono aether decks. You rarely see SoP outside of mono water. You can use SoG but is more efficient in a life mark deck. Same goes for SoD. Even for SoV, it doesn't hit full potential unless you run dark mark. SoI is silly. SoR works better on time creatures. SoFr works better on air creatures, and SoBr works better with fire mark. Only exception to this would be SoSer, SoSac, and SoFo. Grant it, any of the listings above has never stopped anyone from throwing shards into any deck. Even though SoSac is arguably OP as well, this is the SoFo thread. People run this card a high percent of the time with zero synergy with it's effects, nor generate a single gravity quanta for the BH and use it for the sole purpose of, 'Herpderp, i need pc, better run this life rush with 6 sofos.' That's just wrong. If you dont have a way to counter a SoFo turn one and they get one out and you have a bad hand? You're screwed. I remember you or someone else posting something like, and this is a paraphrase, don't get mad at me for twisting words, 'If a card has been a game changer multiple times..' Well, this has. [/rant]

Since you don't like my 'give it a activation cost', what about this:

Accretion:
Destroy a permanent and gain +0/+15. Turns into a black hole if mark is when hp >45.

If neither of the conditions are met, no black hole is generated. That way, people can have their precious splashed PC while having a high potential to take away the 'Getting kicked while down' effect that giving the owner a free black hole gives.

[RRQJ]

Since you don't like my 'give it a activation cost', what about this:

Accretion:
Destroy a permanent and gain +0/+15. Turns into a black hole if mark is when hp >45.

If neither of the conditions are met, no black hole is generated. That way, people can have their precious splashed PC while having a high potential to take away the 'Getting kicked while down' effect that giving the owner a free black hole gives.

This is way worse.  The biggest problem with SoFo has always been the fact that it can destroy permanents too easily for not a high enough cost.  One of the only limitations (though flimsy) is that you needed to be somewhat careful about using it the third time, before it turned to a black hole.  The black hole, though annoying and deadly, isn't nearly as problematic as more "free PC".  All you did was to make it even more OP (for non-gravity marks, ironically).

[ItzSean]

This is way worse.  The biggest problem with SoFo has always been the fact that it can destroy permanents too easily for not a high enough cost.  One of the only limitations (though flimsy) is that you needed to be somewhat careful about using it the third time, before it turned to a black hole.  The black hole, though annoying and deadly, isn't nearly as problematic as more "free PC".  All you did was to make it even more OP (for non-gravity marks, ironically).

Yeah, you're right. I had to re-read your post. At least with the generation of a black hole into the owners hand, it took up one space.

[kimham8a]

How about this:

When this card dies, generate 8 black hole.

Although it doesn't nerf rainbows that much...

[OldTrees]

Shards are meant to be useful for any element. A mono Life deck could not use SoFo if it required  .

..EXACTLY. It's that fact alone that makes it such an overpowered card. Yes, it has 1 hp upon playing, yes it has a 7 play cost, please dont waste your breath typing out the typical 'Everything has a counter.' response or 'You lost to it, so that must mean it's OP.'

BUT, the fact that ANY DECK can use this card and have PC now because of it. And besides.. You rarely see SoW outside mono aether decks. You rarely see SoP outside of mono water. You can use SoG but is more efficient in a life mark deck. Same goes for SoD. Even for SoV, it doesn't hit full potential unless you run dark mark. SoI is silly. SoR works better on time creatures. SoFr works better on air creatures, and SoBr works better with fire mark. Only exception to this would be SoSer, SoSac, and SoFo. Grant it, any of the listings above has never stopped anyone from throwing shards into any deck. Even though SoSac is arguably OP as well, this is the SoFo thread. People run this card a high percent of the time with zero synergy with it's effects, nor generate a single gravity quanta for the BH and use it for the sole purpose of, 'Herpderp, i need pc, better run this life rush with 6 sofos.' That's just wrong. If you dont have a way to counter a SoFo turn one and they get one out and you have a bad hand? You're screwed. I remember you or someone else posting something like, and this is a paraphrase, don't get mad at me for twisting words, 'If a card has been a game changer multiple times..' Well, this has. [/rant]

Since you don't like my 'give it a activation cost', what about this:

Accretion:
Destroy a permanent and gain +0/+15. Turns into a black hole if mark is when hp >45.

If neither of the conditions are met, no black hole is generated. That way, people can have their precious splashed PC while having a high potential to take away the 'Getting kicked while down' effect that giving the owner a free black hole gives.

Consider the following statements:
"Effect A" isn't OP because only Fire has access to it.
"Effect A" is only balanced because only Fire has access to it.

These statements don't make sense because no element has more valuable quanta than another. If an effect is balanced in one element then it would be balanced in another element. If a card is balanced with an elemental quanta cost, then it would be balanced if given an equivalent  cost. (Equivalent meant equally expensive not equal amount of quanta.)

So PC can is not OP just because it costs  . (It is OP so there must be another reason)


Shards are intended to have 2 modes:
Disloyal mode: Casting Cost -> Base effect
Loyal mode: Casting Cost + Loyalty to element -> Base effect + Loyalty bonus.
(SoSac and SoW are the worst example of this intent. SoG and SoD are the best examples of this intent.)

SoFo has a problem in that both modes are OP.

Removing the Black Hole does not hurt the Disloyal mode. Increasing the Loyalty cost from quanta to mark will not strongly affect the Loyal mode. Nerfing the base effect would nerf both modes. Giving it an  activation cost (2-3) would nerf both.

[Cheesy111]

Spoiler for Hidden:

Shards are meant to be useful for any element. A mono Life deck could not use SoFo if it required  .

..EXACTLY. It's that fact alone that makes it such an overpowered card. Yes, it has 1 hp upon playing, yes it has a 7 play cost, please dont waste your breath typing out the typical 'Everything has a counter.' response or 'You lost to it, so that must mean it's OP.'

BUT, the fact that ANY DECK can use this card and have PC now because of it. And besides.. You rarely see SoW outside mono aether decks. You rarely see SoP outside of mono water. You can use SoG but is more efficient in a life mark deck. Same goes for SoD. Even for SoV, it doesn't hit full potential unless you run dark mark. SoI is silly. SoR works better on time creatures. SoFr works better on air creatures, and SoBr works better with fire mark. Only exception to this would be SoSer, SoSac, and SoFo. Grant it, any of the listings above has never stopped anyone from throwing shards into any deck. Even though SoSac is arguably OP as well, this is the SoFo thread. People run this card a high percent of the time with zero synergy with it's effects, nor generate a single gravity quanta for the BH and use it for the sole purpose of, 'Herpderp, i need pc, better run this life rush with 6 sofos.' That's just wrong. If you dont have a way to counter a SoFo turn one and they get one out and you have a bad hand? You're screwed. I remember you or someone else posting something like, and this is a paraphrase, don't get mad at me for twisting words, 'If a card has been a game changer multiple times..' Well, this has. [/rant]

Since you don't like my 'give it a activation cost', what about this:

Accretion:
Destroy a permanent and gain +0/+15. Turns into a black hole if mark is when hp >45.

If neither of the conditions are met, no black hole is generated. That way, people can have their precious splashed PC while having a high potential to take away the 'Getting kicked while down' effect that giving the owner a free black hole gives.

Consider the following statements:
"Effect A" isn't OP because only Fire has access to it.
"Effect A" is only balanced because only Fire has access to it.

These statements don't make sense because no element has more valuable quanta than another. If an effect is balanced in one element then it would be balanced in another element. If a card is balanced with an elemental quanta cost, then it would be balanced if given an equivalent  cost. (Equivalent meant equally expensive not equal amount of quanta.)

So PC can is not OP just because it costs  . (It is OP so there must be another reason)


Shards are intended to have 2 modes:
Disloyal mode: Casting Cost -> Base effect
Loyal mode: Casting Cost + Loyalty to element -> Base effect + Loyalty bonus.
(SoSac and SoW are the worst example of this intent. SoG and SoD are the best examples of this intent.)

SoFo has a problem in that both modes are OP.

Removing the Black Hole does not hurt the Disloyal mode. Increasing the Loyalty cost from quanta to mark will not strongly affect the Loyal mode. Nerfing the base effect would nerf both modes. Giving it an  activation cost (2-3) would nerf both.

If no quanta is worth any more than any other quanta, then how do you explain something like Damselfly compared to Brimstone Eater? One is free, has flying and is air element (relevant for Wings, Sky Blitz, Guard, SoFre) and the other costs one quanta and has none of those attributes. 

[OldTrees]

Spoiler for Hidden:

Shards are meant to be useful for any element. A mono Life deck could not use SoFo if it required  .

..EXACTLY. It's that fact alone that makes it such an overpowered card. Yes, it has 1 hp upon playing, yes it has a 7 play cost, please dont waste your breath typing out the typical 'Everything has a counter.' response or 'You lost to it, so that must mean it's OP.'

BUT, the fact that ANY DECK can use this card and have PC now because of it. And besides.. You rarely see SoW outside mono aether decks. You rarely see SoP outside of mono water. You can use SoG but is more efficient in a life mark deck. Same goes for SoD. Even for SoV, it doesn't hit full potential unless you run dark mark. SoI is silly. SoR works better on time creatures. SoFr works better on air creatures, and SoBr works better with fire mark. Only exception to this would be SoSer, SoSac, and SoFo. Grant it, any of the listings above has never stopped anyone from throwing shards into any deck. Even though SoSac is arguably OP as well, this is the SoFo thread. People run this card a high percent of the time with zero synergy with it's effects, nor generate a single gravity quanta for the BH and use it for the sole purpose of, 'Herpderp, i need pc, better run this life rush with 6 sofos.' That's just wrong. If you dont have a way to counter a SoFo turn one and they get one out and you have a bad hand? You're screwed. I remember you or someone else posting something like, and this is a paraphrase, don't get mad at me for twisting words, 'If a card has been a game changer multiple times..' Well, this has. [/rant]

Since you don't like my 'give it a activation cost', what about this:

Accretion:
Destroy a permanent and gain +0/+15. Turns into a black hole if mark is when hp >45.

If neither of the conditions are met, no black hole is generated. That way, people can have their precious splashed PC while having a high potential to take away the 'Getting kicked while down' effect that giving the owner a free black hole gives.

Consider the following statements:
"Effect A" isn't OP because only Fire has access to it.
"Effect A" is only balanced because only Fire has access to it.

These statements don't make sense because no element has more valuable quanta than another. If an effect is balanced in one element then it would be balanced in another element. If a card is balanced with an elemental quanta cost, then it would be balanced if given an equivalent  cost. (Equivalent meant equally expensive not equal amount of quanta.)

So PC can is not OP just because it costs  . (It is OP so there must be another reason)


Shards are intended to have 2 modes:
Disloyal mode: Casting Cost -> Base effect
Loyal mode: Casting Cost + Loyalty to element -> Base effect + Loyalty bonus.
(SoSac and SoW are the worst example of this intent. SoG and SoD are the best examples of this intent.)

SoFo has a problem in that both modes are OP.

Removing the Black Hole does not hurt the Disloyal mode. Increasing the Loyalty cost from quanta to mark will not strongly affect the Loyal mode. Nerfing the base effect would nerf both modes. Giving it an  activation cost (2-3) would nerf both.

If no quanta is worth any more than any other quanta, then how do you explain something like Damselfly compared to Brimstone Eater? One is free, has flying and is air element (relevant for Wings, Sky Blitz, Guard, SoFre) and the other costs one quanta and has none of those attributes.

Many games suffer from power creep. The players create a metagame out of the top cards. Game designers try to balance all new cards to the current metagame. Variance in balance results in cards more powerful that the prior top cards. The metagame changes to the new height.
Brimestone Eater is a very old card. Damselfly's current form is really new.
There has been a power creep of slightly more than 1 during that time (~3yrs). O.O Zanz is really good at balancing. MtG has much faster power creep.

[Cheesy111]

Spoiler for Hidden:

Shards are meant to be useful for any element. A mono Life deck could not use SoFo if it required  .

..EXACTLY. It's that fact alone that makes it such an overpowered card. Yes, it has 1 hp upon playing, yes it has a 7 play cost, please dont waste your breath typing out the typical 'Everything has a counter.' response or 'You lost to it, so that must mean it's OP.'

BUT, the fact that ANY DECK can use this card and have PC now because of it. And besides.. You rarely see SoW outside mono aether decks. You rarely see SoP outside of mono water. You can use SoG but is more efficient in a life mark deck. Same goes for SoD. Even for SoV, it doesn't hit full potential unless you run dark mark. SoI is silly. SoR works better on time creatures. SoFr works better on air creatures, and SoBr works better with fire mark. Only exception to this would be SoSer, SoSac, and SoFo. Grant it, any of the listings above has never stopped anyone from throwing shards into any deck. Even though SoSac is arguably OP as well, this is the SoFo thread. People run this card a high percent of the time with zero synergy with it's effects, nor generate a single gravity quanta for the BH and use it for the sole purpose of, 'Herpderp, i need pc, better run this life rush with 6 sofos.' That's just wrong. If you dont have a way to counter a SoFo turn one and they get one out and you have a bad hand? You're screwed. I remember you or someone else posting something like, and this is a paraphrase, don't get mad at me for twisting words, 'If a card has been a game changer multiple times..' Well, this has. [/rant]

Since you don't like my 'give it a activation cost', what about this:

Accretion:
Destroy a permanent and gain +0/+15. Turns into a black hole if mark is when hp >45.

If neither of the conditions are met, no black hole is generated. That way, people can have their precious splashed PC while having a high potential to take away the 'Getting kicked while down' effect that giving the owner a free black hole gives.

Consider the following statements:
"Effect A" isn't OP because only Fire has access to it.
"Effect A" is only balanced because only Fire has access to it.

These statements don't make sense because no element has more valuable quanta than another. If an effect is balanced in one element then it would be balanced in another element. If a card is balanced with an elemental quanta cost, then it would be balanced if given an equivalent  cost. (Equivalent meant equally expensive not equal amount of quanta.)

So PC can is not OP just because it costs  . (It is OP so there must be another reason)


Shards are intended to have 2 modes:
Disloyal mode: Casting Cost -> Base effect
Loyal mode: Casting Cost + Loyalty to element -> Base effect + Loyalty bonus.
(SoSac and SoW are the worst example of this intent. SoG and SoD are the best examples of this intent.)

SoFo has a problem in that both modes are OP.

Removing the Black Hole does not hurt the Disloyal mode. Increasing the Loyalty cost from quanta to mark will not strongly affect the Loyal mode. Nerfing the base effect would nerf both modes. Giving it an  activation cost (2-3) would nerf both.

If no quanta is worth any more than any other quanta, then how do you explain something like Damselfly compared to Brimstone Eater? One is free, has flying and is air element (relevant for Wings, Sky Blitz, Guard, SoFre) and the other costs one quanta and has none of those attributes.

Many games suffer from power creep. The players create a metagame out of the top cards. Game designers try to balance all new cards to the current metagame. Variance in balance results in cards more powerful that the prior top cards. The metagame changes to the new height.
Brimestone Eater is a very old card. Damselfly's current form is really new.
There has been a power creep of slightly more than 1 during that time (~3yrs). O.O Zanz is really good at balancing. MtG has much faster power creep.

So then would a reduction of ~1 in cost be appropriate for old cards like Brimstone Eater in order to make them more competitive? Or should other balancing measures be taken to make sure that old cards aren't completely outclassed?  It's especially important to keep cards relevant in a game like EtG where new cards do not come out as rapidly as in, say, MtG.

[dragonsdemesne]

The same card costing different amounts in different elements isn't power creep; a card in a different element can't be strictly superior or inferior to another  That reflects how 'natural' it is for certain elements to do something.  Life has cheaper creatures, therefore horned frog is cheaper than blue crawler, for instance, even though both are 3/3 creatures.  Make a water creature that costs 2 and is a 3/3, and that's power creep, because blue crawler will never be used again except possibly in decks with 6 of the cheaper one already.  Make a darkness creature that costs 4 and is a 3/3 creature, that's just a crap card, but it's not power creeped by anything currently in the game.