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Offline ZephyrPhantom

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Re: Shard of Focus https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=38644.msg530330#msg530330
« Reply #360 on: August 07, 2012, 07:46:14 pm »
Hmm. Whatever happened to that suggestion of 'sacrifice 1 permanent to destroy one permanent' that I saw a while ago on this thread? Even if the 'double-targeting' coding is a little tough (and could be avoided entirely if the sacrifice was random), I feel that would be a good start since you'd need at least 4 cards to deal with 3 permanents ( SoFo + 3 Pillars seems better than just SoFo) and it prevents Novabows from running Pillarless.
I'd just like to bump this suggestion, since no one appeared to respond to it the first time I asked about it.

Offline Laxadarap

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Re: Shard of Focus https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=38644.msg530334#msg530334
« Reply #361 on: August 07, 2012, 07:51:57 pm »
My only issue with SoFo is that it is so effective in Rainbows.  In upped, its 6 random quanta, which is essentially 2 quanta in a duo.  That is 3 destructions for 2 quanta, as we can see, that is obviously OP.  I think the health is great as it is, it is possible for upped decks to counter it, unupped is going to have to live without, since I don't think theres anyway to fix first turn.  I think we need to nerf it in relation to rainbows, which is why I liked the idea of casting bhole on each player.  Zblader has a good idea as well, get it out on a nova, but hamper your own speed, this would mean it is a card that you would get out later in the game, not a first turn spam.
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Offline dragonsdemesne

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Re: Shard of Focus https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=38644.msg530359#msg530359
« Reply #362 on: August 07, 2012, 09:10:38 pm »
I think I've suggested it already, but picking one of the following two ways to nerf it would work pretty good:

1) Destroy one of the opponent's permanents at random. 
2) Destroy one of the opponent's permanents just like it is now, but as an additional cost you must sacrifice one of your own permanents (not sure if this should be your choice or at random, but either way would balance it better)

Whether pillar/shard stacks should count as one permanent or as however many cards the stack contains would be a subject to discuss if Zanz takes the suggestion seriously.

Offline vivimancer

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Re: Shard of Focus https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=38644.msg531289#msg531289
« Reply #363 on: August 10, 2012, 02:43:52 am »
What if we made SoFo a perm?  that would make it fit with nearly all the other shards and stop the gravity pull/accelleration nonsense...

Offline Cheesy111

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Re: Shard of Focus https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=38644.msg531290#msg531290
« Reply #364 on: August 10, 2012, 02:45:09 am »
What if we made SoFo a perm?  that would make it fit with nearly all the other shards and stop the gravity pull/accelleration nonsense...

Destroying SoFo's synergy with Gravity without solving the problem of its horrendous PC is the worst possible scenario.

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Re: Shard of Focus https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=38644.msg531431#msg531431
« Reply #365 on: August 10, 2012, 06:49:02 am »

Destroying SoFo's synergy with Gravity without solving the problem of its horrendous PC is the worst possible scenario.

Ok. Ok, I'll finally admit it, EVERY DECK in arena and PvP seems to have at least at least 3 SoFos but thats only because we are not giving them any choice, e.g. a mono-fire rush can either have 6 deflags to break that guys dim shield spam or 2 SoFos, which would you consider more useful?

Gravity has Armidagio's, titans and massive dragons to fill the role that SoFos seem to be stealing at the monent. The probelm isn't SoFo, the problem is lack of useful, cost-effective PC. 

Offline OldTrees

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Re: Shard of Focus https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=38644.msg531439#msg531439
« Reply #366 on: August 10, 2012, 07:12:28 am »

Destroying SoFo's synergy with Gravity without solving the problem of its horrendous PC is the worst possible scenario.

Ok. Ok, I'll finally admit it, EVERY DECK in arena and PvP seems to have at least at least 3 SoFos but thats only because we are not giving them any choice, e.g. a mono-fire rush can either have 6 deflags to break that guys dim shield spam or 2 SoFos, which would you consider more useful?

Gravity has Armidagio's, titans and massive dragons to fill the role that SoFos seem to be stealing at the monent. The probelm isn't SoFo, the problem is lack of useful, cost-effective PC.
1) Decks will not have to have a card when that card is balanced. Decks would not have to have card type if card type were balanced.
2) Fire Elementals will be ambivalent between Deflagrations and SoFos once SoFo is balanced. This means 6 Deflagrations and 2 SoFos should have costs of an similar magnitude. SoFo needs to be nerfed until it is in line with the standard for cost-effective PC (Deflagration)
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Offline teffy

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Re: Shard of Focus https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=38644.msg531523#msg531523
« Reply #367 on: August 10, 2012, 02:04:41 pm »
I think I got a nice idea, how to nerf this shard:

1. the shard becomes 0/1, 0/2, 0/3.
destroyed combination with Grav Pull, new combination with Virus, Infection skill. Black Hole has still synergy with Gravity.

If that´s not enough:
2. The max HP(!) is always 3. The shard comes into play with 1 HP. Holy Light/Flash (free card!) and Purify can destroy the shard this way.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2012, 02:10:09 pm by teffy »
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Re: Shard of Focus https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=38644.msg531550#msg531550
« Reply #368 on: August 10, 2012, 03:30:02 pm »
I think I got a nice idea, how to nerf this shard:

1. the shard becomes 0/1, 0/2, 0/3.
destroyed combination with Grav Pull, new combination with Virus, Infection skill. Black Hole has still synergy with Gravity.

If that´s not enough:
2. The max HP(!) is always 3. The shard comes into play with 1 HP. Holy Light/Flash (free card!) and Purify can destroy the shard this way.
This makes the card vulnerable. This is good but it does not deal with the excessive efficiency problem. The result is decks would be forced to either include CC or SoFo. Decks should not be required to include CC or SoFo.
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Offline dragonsdemesne

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Re: Shard of Focus https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=38644.msg531573#msg531573
« Reply #369 on: August 10, 2012, 04:41:29 pm »
I'm okay with shard of focus having synergy with gravity more so than any other element, so the gravity pull/overdrive/trebuchet thing is okay, but I think it has too much hp.  Making it a permanent as was suggested makes it even more OP, because then there are even fewer ways to deal with the card, plus consider the mirror match; the first person to play shard of focus will keep the other player from playing one (or pulverizer) and thus negate two of the very few cards that could actually stop it if it were a permanent.

In regards to the comments comparing shard of focus with explosion, I'll put it this way.  In any case where I can use shard of focus (i.e. not tourneys) I will use it over explosion, -including- in monofire.  The power of shard of focus should not exceed an element card like that, yet it does.  Even in decks that could use pulverizer, I'll often use shard of focus, because I can get the black hole, and obviously use it if I could've used pulvy.

Ideally, shard of focus should be comparable in power to something like butterfly effect.  BE is the weakest form of PC currently ingame, and an other card accessible to any element should be among the weakest, not the best one.

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Re: Shard of Focus https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=38644.msg531627#msg531627
« Reply #370 on: August 10, 2012, 07:37:01 pm »
Ideally, shard of focus should be comparable in power to something like butterfly effect.  BE is the weakest form of PC currently ingame, and an other card accessible to any element should be among the weakest, not the best one.

That is an interesting idea. SoFo could be a spell that transmutes a creature into what the current shard of focus is (like mutation). It should be a new creature so you can't use SoFo's ability on the turn you play it. This would also make the card a form of CC.

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Re: Shard of Focus https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=38644.msg531678#msg531678
« Reply #371 on: August 10, 2012, 10:37:38 pm »
Ok. Ok, I'll finally admit it, EVERY DECK in arena and PvP seems to have at least at least 3 SoFos but thats only because we are not giving them any choice-

The current #1 Plat deck possesses 0 Shards of Focus, so no, people do have some choice.

That said, the card is currently excessively powerful and can 'feel' omnipresent. Either an activation cost, a way to deal with it card effectively (such as a eternal cast spell that deals low CC), or some combination are needed to lower the dominion over the metagame.

 

anything
blarg: