[Official] Immolation | Cremation

[davogotland]

And now you are asking to lower it again to 4. A three card combo, resulting in a frail 5|1 creature which can easily die in the first 3 turns. Tell me how is that OP.

it's over powered since it can be done during the first turn of the game. with a fire mark, it could be done during the second turn with my suggestion, still with the old two card combo, and then have it grow only once, until another nova or immolation could be played. or if playing with earth mark, it would take a three card combo, making it less likely to happen during the first turn.

And no, "fun" does not factor into card balancing. Else i will ask SN to give 10 quanta per use. Because it's fun.

that would not be fun. fun == reward signaling in the brain. winning and losing close matches, that's fun! winning or losing big is only boring and doesn't trigger dopamine. this is one of the reasons why it's important to have well balanced cards. the other is to avoid inflation obviously. inflation is not fun.

if these two hold true (that balancing is done to 1 trigger more dopamine and 2 avoid inflation) then fun is actually the only factor in balancing :)

[Absol]

1. Trading card advantage to field advantage (converting 3 cards into 1 frail attacker) is not OP. 4 quanta is hardly worth sacrificing 2 cards, and if you think this is OP, read Shard of Integrity, which can potentially convert all your hand advantage into field advantage.
2. No one ever said that fun is a factor in balancing. Unless you support this with convincing argument, i will assume you don't know what's OP and what's not. Nerf is for OP cards for competitive sake, not for unfun cards.

[furballdn]

8-0 currently. Guess that shows what the community feels

[Absol]

One more thing. If i wanted 4 , i would  just use 2 towers. Easier to get, easier to balance, will generate more than 4.

[OldTrees]

1) Immolation decks only get 6x a finite amount of quanta. An aggro win condition needs to be playable within that limit.

2) Immolation uses 2 cards to generate a finite amount of quanta. The quantity cannot be below the value of 2 cards.
(Nova + Fire Pillar | Fire Tower vs Photon + Immolation | Cremation)

3) Fun is a factor in game design. Balance is a factor in game design. Fun is not a factor in balance.

PS: Where is the nerf to 5|7 option? Where is the buff to 7|9 option?
I think the format of this kind of poll should be:
Large nerf
Small nerf
Nothing
Buff
Other (comment)

[davogotland]

thank you for taking the time to reply oldtrees. i've read some of what you've written, and i really like your mathematical approach to balancing.

Fun is not a factor in balance.

balance is a huge factor in fun.

PS: Where is the nerf to 5|7 option? Where is the buff to 7|9 option?
I think the format of this kind of poll should be:
Large nerf
Small nerf
Nothing
Buff
Other (comment)

i did change the poll to a similar format after some comments. but i then changed it back after it came to my attention that i was just being mocked (i'm a n00b you see).

i'm not really interested in 5 fire quanta from immolation, since that will still make the golem too easy to play on the first turn. i would not want the cost of playing the golem to change either, since that will totally mess up the balance of fire as an element. if this suggestion can't be seen as an improvement, then so be it. i don't think 5 :fire would be an improvement.

also, my suggestion comes from experiences in pvp1. not from tournaments. if i enter pvp1 with a growthsplosion deck, my opponent will likely leave after 3 turns, realizing that it's impossible to win. that's not fun. also, i will not have a fulfilling experience when i win. it's no fun if it comes too easy :(

[davogotland]

8-0 currently. Guess that shows what the community feels :P

hm, i can't see the result since i didn't vote myself. but it sure does show what 8 persons in the community feels! :)

[Absol]

12-0 already, towards no nerf. Go figure.

[OldTrees]

@Everyone
Please focus on teaching and argumentation rather than mocking. We should welcome new players not scare them off.


@davogotland
PvP 1 is not a very good metric unfortunately. However it is a good place to start making observations.

A Lava Golem first turn is not the end of the world vs a Immolation deck. As you get more experience you will discover many ways to deal with the early Lava Golem including methods that don't kill the golem. So the timing of the Lava Golem is not a large concern with Immolation. There might be a concern about how much/little quanta is produced.

[Naesala]

@Everyone
Please focus on teaching and argumentation rather than mocking. We should welcome new players not scare them off.


@davogotland
PvP 1 is not a very good metric unfortunately. However it is a good place to start making observations.

A Lava Golem first turn is not the end of the world vs a Immolation deck. As you get more experience you will discover many ways to deal with the early Lava Golem including methods that don't kill the golem. So the timing of the Lava Golem is not a large concern with Immolation. There might be a concern about how much/little quanta is produced.

Oldtrees is wise indeed.

I understand your concern and it is good of you to voice it. I'd say immolation is fairly balanced right now, it's speed comes at a decent price. I've ran immogolem rushes before and theres quite a bit to stop them out there.

[xdude]

apart from my trolling, what my post says still holds true. and after reading the OP i have the feeling that its the golem you think its overpowered, not immo.

haha, it was very obvious that you hadn't read the original post replying to a topic instead of the argumentation in the topic. tsk tsk tsk, 5 star member and all. you really should know better

sorry, but what does your post actually say that "holds true"?

no, i don't think lava golem is over powered. it's easily killed on it's first turn by any creature control. but after four turns there is no single card that can kill it. and among the abilities, only paradox, which means 5 entropy plus one turn of summoning sickness. a combo of reverse time and any CC will get it at any time of course, and then there's antimatter, but that's insanely expensive, so not really an option since it's early game i'm after here.

i'm saying that if getting the golem out early wasn't as easy as it is now, it would be more fun to face immolation decks. early being the keyword here means that immolation is the foundation.

1. RT
2. Freeze
3. Basilisk's Blood.
4. Paradox
5. Antimatter (no, 8 quanta 4 turns in a game is not so much to ask for)
6. kill all the other weak creature while outrushing the single golem.
7. Healing.

Immolation is not OP and getting an 11 attack creature by turn 4 is really not that game-breaking.

[Pwnator]

Isn't the mulligan screw-up annoying enough to balance Immo's quickfire mechanic?