[Official] Hope | Hope

[BluePriest]

or perhaps its neither of them

There is a pyramid of gameplay here, and I'll lay it out for you.

      Players
    AI level
   Decks
Cards

As long as the cards are unbalanced, the decks will be lopsided accordingly.  Right now, the decks are leaning towards fractal decks and rainbows, because the card foundation is simply better there than anywhere else.  But you cannot discuss what decks do as they aren't all on even ground.  Some of them simply have it better to begin with because the cards aren't fair.  In a true CCG, it's not the cards you take but what you do with them.  The opposite is true of a broken game.

[moomoose]

i agree with that for the most part, but like you said earlier there could have two cards that together have an OP effect that would not exist had one of the cards not existed.  a ready-made example of the ruling that adrenaline with a devourer shouldnt give 4 quanta absorption, as was mentioned in the other thread. 

hope without a fractal on RoL would not be trivial to get above 6 shield, which would be much more balanced.  fractal without any interesting cards to use it on wouldnt be OP... but given the option, id much rather toss out fractal and let other cards thrive in a 6 card max system.

[finkel]

You can counter hope with a variety of cards. Here are a few that single-handedly win against hope (or very nearly) in a rol-fractal-hope deck:
-fire buckler
-unupped spine carapace
-thunderstorm
-rain of fire
-pandemonium (2-3 almost guarantee to clear the field or almost completely clear it)
quanta denial+rush. a first or second-turn discord will shut rol-fractal-hope down for 3+ turns, which is plenty of stall for a rush deck, since it will take at least another 2 turns to play fractal and then play hope, and the light quanta will probably get scattered too, so that's another 1-2 turns on top of that before hope can get up. add even just 1 black hole as soon as the opponent gets 8 aether or 7 light quanta (in case of unupped hope) and you have another several turns before your opponent can do anything except maybe play an electrocuter or shards (and then stall himself more by using up quanta).
-devourers (see above - not quite as effective, but nonetheless...)
-plague
-retrovirus
-aflaotoxin
-mass creature-control, examples include multiple flying eagle's eyes, fire nymphs and parasites
-immortal growth creature+healing/stall until he gets up and over hope - takes a lot of time, though
-momentum: my speed rainbow has 1 card that can combat hope - elite charger. However, combined with 3 steals for shards and the electrocuter, web+wings to keep me alive, and basilisk bloods for the dragons, I can stall until that one creature kills my opponent (usually leaving me with 3-5 card left by the time I win).

plenty more cards work well at countering hope, such as any (literally) damage reduction shield (preferably played after getting your opponent to play way too many rays), and some particular decks stand a good chance, such as an exceptionally fast rush (if the opponent is sufficiently slow in getting up hope) or a deck-out deck (some shards/flying staffs/etc. are usually enough).

so stop whining that it's overpowered, there's plenty of counters. Any sort of permanent control will take care of the electrocuter, allowing you to rely on creatures to control the rays.

[icecoldbro]

guys stop complaining this card is way fine no need to nerf

things that can counter it:
fire shield, fire storm, thunder storm, EE(slowly though), thorn carpace, QS(yes u heard me no aether towers= no fractal= less amount of RoL= low shield),growing creatures+ shield(any except bonewall), lobo(slowly), farenheit+  death

[sbluen]

The computer (expecially the FG dreamcatcher) plays cards as soon as he gets them and rarely targets pillars with permanant control. If you don't play like that, you shouldn't have much of a problem against a deck that uses that strategy. Don't nerf this card.

[Onipix]

I don't hate this card or like it, but its quite useful, and the creature control is fine, especially with RoF/Fire Storm so i wouldn't nerf it just because some people cannot strategize.

[Kael Hate]

I think its fine as is.

I made a suggestion to fix Fractal, and believe that that fix would solve the hope issue at the same time. Think about Hope without Fractal, is it broken now? Fractal is the issue here.

Suggested Change to Fractal

"Create in your hand a copy of target creature for every 5 Aether Quanta in your posession. Consumes All Aether Quanta."

This will reduce the mass gain until later in the game and efffectively makes you pay 5 for each copy you want to make.
Currently in the best Fractal situation you pay 1 per copy.

[kuraisasuke]

I think hopes invincibility should be taken away. It is simply not fair to have a card that allows you to reduce damage by more than 5, so either the invincibility should go, or it should have a maximum of 5 or 6 damage reduction. With 5 or 6 it would still be strong enough to stop small monsters in their tracks, but the ability to have an invincible card that can keep a dragon from doing any damage, is just lame. Hope is OPed, along with fractal. One of these two needs to be nerfed. That's all

[MrBlonde]

It is simply not fair to have a card that allows you to reduce damage by more than 5, so either the invincibility should go, or it should have a maximum of 5 or 6 damage reduction.

But it's really easy to counter as stated in this thread. People who play PvP don't use RoL/Hope for a reason.

[xdude]

http://elementswiki.co.cc/articles/overpowered/

[Daytripper]

I hate the AI deck with hope, fractal and 1 HP creatures. That being said, I cannot reasonably say the card has to be nerfed. You can always kill the 1 HP creatures, and otherwise...it is just quaking the opponent like you don't know what so he simply cannot play.

[miniwally]

http://elementswiki.co.cc/articles/overpowered/

That articles needs to say about comparing it to other cards in the element as well and not comparing upped cards to unupped ones.