Poll

SoR nerf?

Don't need change.
19 (57.6%)
<Medium nerf with :time> Target creature's skill cost is now zero. :time creatures can use their skill now.
3 (9.1%)
<Major nerf with new given skills> Target creature's original skill cost is now zero.
3 (9.1%)
<Major nerf with Mitosis> Can't target / Doesn't work for Mitosis'd creature.
0 (0%)
<Major nerf with :time Mitosis> Can't target Mitosis'd time creature.
0 (0%)
<Medium nerf with :time Mitosis> Mitosis'd time creature do not get additional free skill activation.
0 (0%)
<Medium nerf with :time> SoR cannot affect creature already affected. (Suggested by jawdirk)
6 (18.2%)
I have an another idea, I'll post it.
2 (6.1%)

Total Members Voted: 33

*Author

Offline choongmyoungTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1037
  • Reputation Power: 16
  • choongmyoung is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.choongmyoung is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.choongmyoung is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.
  • Me the Korean Cubiest.
Re: Shard of Readiness | Shard of Readiness https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43900.msg1007092#msg1007092
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2012, 04:46:36 am »
I'll add jawdirk's suggestion to the poll.
Circular Logic is true. Thus, Circular Logic is true.

Offline russianspy1234

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1842
  • Country: ru
  • Reputation Power: 26
  • russianspy1234 is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.russianspy1234 is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.russianspy1234 is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.russianspy1234 is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.russianspy1234 is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.
  • Crucible Bombarder
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 14th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 12th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 11th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 9th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeArt Competition - Meta Master Card Design Competition: New Year's ResolutionsSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 5th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 4th Birthday CakeSlice of Elementshifted 3rd Birthday Cake -Fire-DIAC Ray of SunshineSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday Cake
Re: Shard of Readiness | Shard of Readiness https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43900.msg1007103#msg1007103
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2012, 05:25:58 am »
The only thing that needs to be done to fix this card is for it to only have an effect on each creature once. That is, once it gets a readiness attribute, SoR has no effect.

I definitely agree with this.  Heck, even the card wording agrees with this :p  The shard says "time creatures can use their skill twice this turn".  It doesn't say 'two more times', it says 'twice'.  Going by the literal reading, you shouldn't be able to spam SoR like you can in instosis and use a skill 4 or 6 or 8 or whatever times in a turn.  I assume this must be working as intended, since it's done this ever since the 3 older shards were reworked summer before last, but I've never liked the interaction myself.  (even though I've abused it to no end :p)

and if SoSac played as written, playing a second one while you had the status would heal you.  this isn't MtG: cards don't always do what they say they do.
My Portfolio
Brawl 7 is occurring.  Come follow along.

Offline OldTrees

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10297
  • Reputation Power: 114
  • OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.
  • I was available for questions.
  • Awards: Brawl #2 Winner - Team FireTeam Card Design Winner
Re: Shard of Readiness | Shard of Readiness https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43900.msg1007109#msg1007109
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2012, 05:42:39 am »
The only thing that needs to be done to fix this card is for it to only have an effect on each creature once. That is, once it gets a readiness attribute, SoR has no effect.

I definitely agree with this.  Heck, even the card wording agrees with this :p  The shard says "time creatures can use their skill twice this turn".  It doesn't say 'two more times', it says 'twice'.  Going by the literal reading, you shouldn't be able to spam SoR like you can in instosis and use a skill 4 or 6 or 8 or whatever times in a turn.  I assume this must be working as intended, since it's done this ever since the 3 older shards were reworked summer before last, but I've never liked the interaction myself.  (even though I've abused it to no end :p)

and if SoSac played as written, playing a second one while you had the status would heal you.  this isn't MtG: cards don't always do what they say they do.
If SoSac is played as written, playing a second one would heal you and reverse the effect of SoSac. (I have no problem with this version)


Dragon Mitosis with SoR was tried In Development. Only Instosis was a problem.


A question to think about.

If Silurian Mitosis SoR is so powerful, why is it not a major component of the CL meta (to the best of my knowledge)?  What weaknesses does it have that make it not a large concern?

Like More Certain Overpowered Deck => More Specific Countable Deck => Less Certain Overpowered Deck Feedback, a game can carry a OP deck.
This actually happened for SoSac. More SoSac deck => More Purifies => Less SoSac Deck.

And many other card nerfs were done when it was not a super-duper gamebreaker.
This is accurate.


SoR does give advantage. However the advantage existed long enough that it has been partially absorbed into the balance system.
Creature activation skill costs are split into 0, 1, 2-3, and 4-SoR increments. 3 :rainbow + 1 card was the stabilized price for reducing an activation cost of 4+ to 0.

SoR has increased in price and now readies the skill.

When comparing SoR on Time creatures one needs to remember than SoR used to be balanced when used on high activation costs. Time has lower activation costs and receives a bonus.

However there is one Time creature with a high activation cost. A mother dragon.
"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
"Nothing exists that cannot be countered." -OldTrees on indirect counters
Ask the Idea Guru: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.0.htm

Offline iancudorinmarian

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3772
  • Country: ro
  • Reputation Power: 67
  • iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.
  • Master of Ponies.Eternally salty about War#11 SEC.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 11th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeWar #12 Winner - Team Darkness12th Trials - Master of EntropyWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 9th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament Winner11th Trials - Master of EntropySlice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeWinner of TrinityWinner of Team PvP #710th Trials - Master of EntropySlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner9th Trials - Master of EntropyWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 5th Birthday Cake
Re: Shard of Readiness | Shard of Readiness https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43900.msg1007166#msg1007166
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2012, 04:21:12 pm »
DON'T NERF INSTOSIS!!!

Offline OldTrees

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10297
  • Reputation Power: 114
  • OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.
  • I was available for questions.
  • Awards: Brawl #2 Winner - Team FireTeam Card Design Winner
Re: Shard of Readiness | Shard of Readiness https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43900.msg1007183#msg1007183
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2012, 05:08:45 pm »
DON'T NERF INSTOSIS!!!
Why not?

Is it your favorite deck? Sorry that is no excuse.
Is it your FG grinder? Sorry FG decks are balanced based on FG grinder decks. Not the other way around.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2012, 05:10:30 pm by OldTrees »
"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
"Nothing exists that cannot be countered." -OldTrees on indirect counters
Ask the Idea Guru: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.0.htm

Offline OdinVanguard

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4984
  • Reputation Power: 67
  • OdinVanguard walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.OdinVanguard walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.OdinVanguard walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.OdinVanguard walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.OdinVanguard walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.OdinVanguard walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.OdinVanguard walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.OdinVanguard walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.OdinVanguard walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.OdinVanguard walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.OdinVanguard walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.OdinVanguard walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.OdinVanguard walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.
  • Keeping The Jotnar at bay
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 4th Birthday Cake
Re: Shard of Readiness | Shard of Readiness https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43900.msg1007374#msg1007374
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2012, 05:39:23 am »
Others may disagree but I like the idea of preventing repeated use on the same creature... on general grounds of cheapness...
ok granted thats not a true term but I think most understand what I mean.

That said, I don't think this shard should be on top of the list of nerfs. True, this isn't the first time nerfing SoR has come up... I myself argued in favor of it at great length, and I still think a small nerf may be in order... But it seems the general consensus is to leave it alone. Namely because, for the most part, its not really that OP.

As annoying and cheap as instosis can be (and maybe other possible spam abuses) its use seems to be infrequent enough that it is not of game breaking OP-ness. Aside from a deck built around spamming the shard repeatedly it really won't provide much benefit of using a spell equivalent.

Think card advantage... Instant skill use takes SoR + Creature w/ skill -> 2 cards for 2 uses. The same as casting a spell twice. Quanta Cost wise there generally isn't much of a gain here either since creature cost often matches or exceeds the ability cost, and the abilities costs themselves (mitosis exempted) are generally on par with the shard cost ( 3 :rainbow ~ 1 :underworld )

In short, the only way for this card to be broken is when it is abused by combining repeated chain usage in conjunction with high cost abilities (namely mitosis thus far).

 In my opinion (spam abuse aside), SoR is one of the better behaved and balanced shards. The only nerf that's really justified is preventing it from being used on the exact same card multiple times in a single turn.

More importantly, I think there are other cards out there in more dire need of balancing work *cough* Shard of Focus *cough*
« Last Edit: October 13, 2012, 05:53:36 am by OdinVanguard »
Whether the glass is half full or half empty is a moot point. It is always filled to the brim. It is only a matter of by what. The real question is: What fills you?
If your zombie plan is
kill -9 `ps l | awk '{print $2" "$3" "$9}' | grep "Z" | awk '{printf("%s ",$2)}'`
You might be a unix junky

Offline mrezman

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 123
  • Country: us
  • Reputation Power: 2
  • mrezman is a Spark waiting for a buff.
  • (╯ಠ益ಠ)╯彡 ┻━┻
Re: Shard of Readiness | Shard of Readiness https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43900.msg1014076#msg1014076
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2012, 06:18:55 am »
This card is only extremely strong with mitosis. It would be pretty downright horrible if it was netted like that. If you didn't use mitosis, why would you need to use the skill now when you already can?
:)

Offline Captain Scibra

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1345
  • Reputation Power: 20
  • Captain Scibra is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.Captain Scibra is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.Captain Scibra is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.Captain Scibra is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.
  • Do Domhantarraingt. Dúinn go léir.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 7th Birthday Cake8th Trials - Master of GravitySlice of Elements 3rd Birthday Cake
Re: Shard of Readiness | Shard of Readiness https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43900.msg1022762#msg1022762
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2012, 02:55:53 pm »
"The target creature's still cost is reduced by two.  :time creatures can use their skill twice this turn."

Majorly nerfs Mitosis combos, and slightly nerfs considerably expensive skills, such as nymphs, a popular use for this pre-buffed.
Rule #1: The Captain is never wrong.  Rule #2: If the Captain is wrong, refer to Rule #1.
The New Card Theory Thread

Offline choongmyoungTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1037
  • Reputation Power: 16
  • choongmyoung is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.choongmyoung is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.choongmyoung is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.
  • Me the Korean Cubiest.
Re: Shard of Readiness | Shard of Readiness https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43900.msg1022766#msg1022766
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2012, 03:09:11 pm »
"The target creature's still cost is reduced by two.  :time creatures can use their skill twice this turn."

Majorly nerfs Mitosis combos, and slightly nerfs considerably expensive skills, such as nymphs, a popular use for this pre-buffed.

Note: Nymphs, Butterfly Effect, Flying unupped Pulverizer, Flying Poseidon, Flying Eternity, Mitosis are affected.
Hmmmmmmm not sure about this idea..
Circular Logic is true. Thus, Circular Logic is true.

Offline Captain Scibra

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1345
  • Reputation Power: 20
  • Captain Scibra is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.Captain Scibra is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.Captain Scibra is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.Captain Scibra is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.
  • Do Domhantarraingt. Dúinn go léir.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 7th Birthday Cake8th Trials - Master of GravitySlice of Elements 3rd Birthday Cake
Re: Shard of Readiness | Shard of Readiness https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43900.msg1022767#msg1022767
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2012, 03:18:12 pm »
"The target creature's still cost is reduced by two.  :time creatures can use their skill twice this turn."

Majorly nerfs Mitosis combos, and slightly nerfs considerably expensive skills, such as nymphs, a popular use for this pre-buffed.

Note: Nymphs, Butterfly Effect, Flying unupped Pulverizer, Flying Poseidon, Flying Eternity, Mitosis are affected.
Hmmmmmmm not sure about this idea..

The only notable ones are the duo, since this means it takes more than one to remove the need for the second element.
Rule #1: The Captain is never wrong.  Rule #2: If the Captain is wrong, refer to Rule #1.
The New Card Theory Thread

 

anything
blarg: