[Official] Dive skill

[Malduk]

I have yet to see a good reliable deck that is built around buffing creature. Buffs in the game are not really strong, and are really only good in combos with abilities like Dive.
Combos in general are not really strong as they require multiple cards to be drawn in predetermined order.
When faced against Rewind, your whole strategy is destroyed, and if you want to counter it with Quint, you prevent further buffs on that creature.

If anything, I'd rather see combos buffed than nerfed (though Dive is in good spot IMO anyway).

Buffs are not really strong??? The game you play is the same as I play?

We probably dont play the same game as in the game I play, having another creature is more often than not simply better than having a buff. Try arguments next time instead of chaining question marks. Example of solid and reliable deck built around buffs would be a good start.

Examples you wrote:

Buff a Deja Vu before using abilitie, PU a buffed creature, buff a creature that cause poison on attack, or creature that make quanta, buff oty to eat bigger creatures....i could write till tomorrow...

Those are all plain weak and/or unreliable deck choices.

[edunavas]

Malduk, jmizzle7 said that the game is not based on buffing creatures and i gave him some examples. If these buffs are strong or not depends on how you make the deck.

And jmizzle7, there are many good buffs, a quinted oty isn´t a good buff? i bet you play (or played) a quinted oty on your rainbow deck to kill FG.

Pegasus and wyrn are costly, and to activate the skill you have to pay. To play ability pegasus you have to be at least duo deck. If you want to buff too. Well, they have their synergy that if you build a good deck they can be very powerfull (I repeat, IF you build a good deck), but playing alone they don´t do much thing.

When people talk about nerfing or buffing a card, i ask to them if they thought if the card is good/bad on a mon, duo, trio and rainbows decks. Sometimes is only playing rainboes decks, and think certains cards are worthless, but they have their use in mono or duo decks....

[bojengles77]

Bring back the old SoR and make dive add base attack! That way my otyugh can nomz on two of your creatures at once.

But seriously, Dive shouldn't and probably won't change. However, considering SoR was nerfed primarily due to FG buff-rush-dive decks using the shard, changes should be made to SoR to make it on par with the other shards (off-topic, i know)

[Tea is good]

Combo is broken anyways because the attack buff will go back down after a turn or two, i forgot which. (with TU combo)

[jmizzle7]

Malduk, jmizzle7 said that the game is not based on buffing creatures and i gave him some examples. If these buffs are strong or not depends on how you make the deck.

And jmizzle7, there are many good buffs, a quinted oty isn´t a good buff? i bet you play (or played) a quinted oty on your rainbow deck to kill FG.

Pegasus and wyrn are costly, and to activate the skill you have to pay. To play ability pegasus you have to be at least duo deck. If you want to buff too. Well, they have their synergy that if you build a good deck they can be very powerfull (I repeat, IF you build a good deck), but playing alone they don´t do much thing.

When people talk about nerfing or buffing a card, i ask to them if they thought if the card is good/bad on a mon, duo, trio and rainbows decks. Sometimes is only playing rainboes decks, and think certains cards are worthless, but they have their use in mono or duo decks....

Please don't take it the wrong way, but I assume that English is not your first language. I never once said that Elements is "not based on buffing creatures," nor did I say that there are no good buffs. I did, however, say that the benefits of using buffs are currently outweighed by the detractors. It's fine to have a couple of buffs in a deck, but to build a deck around them is foolhardy.

[edunavas]

Please don't take it the wrong way, but I assume that English is not your first language. I never once said that Elements is "not based on buffing creatures," nor did I say that there are no good buffs. I did, however, say that the benefits of using buffs are currently outweighed by the detractors. It's fine to have a couple of buffs in a deck, but to build a deck around them is foolhardy.

Ok, i sometimes can misunderstand something.

Maybe because there aren´t too many cards... I think one day this game will become very serious. At the moment it´s a very little child that with the support of the players it´s growing up and will have nice buffs decks, counterbuffs, discards deck and so on...

Sorry about bad english and misunderstanding.
You are an old player and have much more experience than me. I respect you

[jmizzle7]

Ok, i sometimes can misunderstand something.

Maybe because there aren´t too many cards... I think one day this game will become very serious. At the moment it´s a very little child that with the support of the players it´s growing up and will have nice buffs decks, counterbuffs, discards deck and so on...

Sorry about bad english and misunderstanding.
You are an old player and have much more experience than me. I respect you

No problem

[jmdt]

It's fine to have a couple of buffs in a deck, but to build a deck around them is foolhardy.

One of the fastest decks in my ttw study is a blessed pegasus deck.  The adrenaline life rush, a very popular deck, is essentially built around a passive buff.  Lots of people like to rage potion destroyers.  Several more examples are also out there.  These decks work well, but are extremely succeptable to CC as you lose 2 or more cards with 1 creature, so are not as prevailant as other decks.

Dive is powerful when buffed, but there are a laundry list of faster/more powerful cards/effects.  Dive is fine.

[plastiqe]

The OP is talking about dive not from the perspective of in game use, but from possible future use.  The problem with Dive is that in its current implemenation you cannot make something like a +6 +0 reverse Heavy Armor, or a powerful SoR.

<insert Gl1tch quote about this deck vs that deck is irrelevant here>

[Dragoon1140]

The OP is talking about dive not from the perspective of in game use, but from possible future use.  The problem with Dive is that in its current implemenation you cannot make something like a +6 +0 reverse Heavy Armor, or a powerful SoR.

Yea, Pastiqe can put it into words better than I can.

[Hodari]

Combo is broken anyways because the attack buff will go back down after a turn or two, i forgot which. (with TU combo)

From a few quick tests on the trainer, it looks like the buff will only go down after the ability is used on the new creature, ie.

Play 5/3 elite wyrm.  Next turn use dive, it becomes a 10/3.  TU it and you have 2 10/3 wyrms.  After you attack, the original one goes back down to 5/3 but the copy remains 10/3.  If you don't use dive the next turn, it STILL remains as 10/3.  If you use dive, it becomes a 20/3 for one attack, then drops back down to 5/3.  If you TU the 20/3 one and use dive on that one next turn, it becomes a 40/3 which STILL reverts to 5/3 after attacking.

I would say the only "nerf" (really more of a bug fix than a nerf) that dive needs is to make it work properly with TU (and any other cards with similar issues) so that the attack drops back down to normal immediately after the first attack rather than only after the ability is used again, thus preventing someone from making progressively larger creatures with each copy.

[coinich]

^I thought that was changed a while back, and even then, that combo is far too shaky to make it overpowered, I think.