[Official] Discord | Discord

[Zawadx]

A cost increase to 4 would make Discord much weaker unupped, as in all decks beside Monoentropy it would definitely come 1-2 turns late. By then the opponent should have either developed 5+ damage or a shield that makes discord ineffective. Since discord mostly becomes ineffective after 3-4 turns, this hit would make all disco decks besides monoentropy second grade. Maybe DBH could work as a surprise deck once in a while.

But the fact that disco should become ineffective after 3-4 turns is what makes it hard to balance. Often it can continue denying for 5-6 turns, sometimes it becomes worthless after the second hit. One thing it does do well though, is keep up a steady flow of damage. This provides the discord player an advantage of 20 or so damage.

So imo discord should be decreased to 2 damage, as that preserves its viability in many decks while weakening them, as they are usually low on damage due to packing discord combos. It would also let 2 DR shields counter discord.

[iancudorinmarian]

2 damage for discord? That's way too much. Just because it's effective against mono decks doesn't mean it's OP. If that's the case, then BH is OP because it beats rainbow decks and RoF is OP because it beats fractal decks. Just because a card has the chance to be effective against a certain type of deck doesn't make it OP.

6 cost for a 4 atk weapon is insanely UP. It would become completely useless. It's usefulness will become around dagger's in terms of effectiveness. That's right, almost 0.

Now back to 3 cost for 2 damage. Just think about it for a second and you'll realize how big of a nerf this is. Arsenic comes to mind? Yes, 2 cost, 2 damage, increases each turn. Fahrenheit, 3 cost, 4+ damage. Druidic staff, 2 cost, 2 damage, heal 5. Vampire dagger, 1 cost, 4 damage, vampire.

I think that's enough examples for now. Now, take a look at the weapons that I mentioned. They're useful in every situation, while discord is useful only like 50% (4 types: mono, duo, trio, rainbow). It also depends on the deck's type. If it's a stall deck, discord won't even matter, since sanctuary will almost 100% of the time be there.

There is no way to nerf this card without making it almost completely useless. And as it's already been stated, discord was already nerfed.

[Ginyu]

6 cost is indeed too much. As stated, if it can't come out early, it's effect weakens a lot.

Reducing it's damage is a possibility to nerf it in the long run. I think, 3 atk might do it, 2 could be too weak, but that's a thing to test.
@ian You compared weapons and their abilities with Discord without mentioning it's ability - of course it looks weaker that way. You should not forget that Scramble will give you a turn advantage of 2 or 3 turns most of the time, which is huge, and which is why it is so strong (and becomes even stronger with it's synergies). And saying it is just strong against a "certain type of deck" is simply false. Discord trolls all decks but Rainbows. How you did come to the conclusion that Disco doesn't effect Trios much is a miracle for me. Trios are already not that consistent in quanta and that won't be better with early Scramble. Also, I doubt heavily that the 4 types you mentioned are played 25% each, especially trios. And Disco IS able to bring down stalls, if you simply don't let your opponent play a Sanc in time. Look at 12 Lives, iirc stalls were beaten by DBH most of the time.

My favourite option is still to decrease the amount of quanta being scrambled. At the moment it is 9, reducing it to 7 (cost/attack keep their stats) can keep it's effectiveness early, but won't screw your opponent for too long. Depending of what Discord is combined with and what your opponent plays, of course, as always. It keeps value as a damage dealer after that, so it doesn't become useless after a few turns.

[iancudorinmarian]

Ginyu, you do have a point and your nerf suggestion isn't as radical as the others are, so that's ok. I still think it doesn't need a nerf though. After all, you could say that any card that involves RNG is OP because it can screw your opponent (thorn carpace, fog, dusk, even SoSe come to mind)

[Zawadx]

Ginyu, you do have a point and your nerf suggestion isn't as radical as the others are, so that's ok. I still think it doesn't need a nerf though. After all, you could say that any card that involves RNG is OP because it can screw your opponent (thorn carpace, fog, dusk, even SoSe come to mind)

Eh, I kinda feel you're being defensive as a master of Entropy...   (Don't feel bad tho, I feel the same way about fractal/dim nerfs.)

The reason Discord has bad RNG is because its polarization radically shifts the outcomes of a game. If Disco reverts quanta to normal after 2nd hit, your opponent will easily secure a lead which most often leads to a win as discord decks rely on discord. On the other hand, disco troll for 5 turns = loss for opponent without any skill at all applied.

The same is true for fog tbh because of its low cost for high defense compared to any other shield (I'll go to the nerf fog thread someday~). But the rest have a cost which does risky. Also somewhat less variance, due to high probability.

Also disco can disrupt stalls quite effectively as stalls have lower quanta to deck size ratios for card advantage and larger deck sizes, making them often weak to a pre-sanc disco. I mean, during WC third place match both me and www3 used DBH as a soft-counter to Firestall.

The fact that Discord can destroy a stall a lot of the time is why I believe its damage should be nerfed. 7 quanta scramble might work, tho some testing will be required.

[Ghaladh]

I think that reducing the number of scrambled Quanta is the right way to go. Discord by itself has a powerful effect, but it doesn't become dramatically OP until you don't use its interactions. Earthquake, Pests, SoFo, Black Hole... in an upped deck you can put Discord the first turn and play any other of those effects in the successive turns, removing any possibility of a significant reaction from your opponent for 5 or more turns. Most of the times that means victory, no matter what kind of deck your opponent uses...

The problem is that nerfing Discord too much would make it useless and that would be wrong as well. Reducing the scrambled Quanta is not truly the best solution, but it's probably the only one that would be fair without breaking the card.

[omegareaper7]

This card is almost an automatic win against a mono or a duo if it comes out at first or second turn. It takes about 5 turns to put out enough pillars to make it useless and in that time span you can practically be killed if your deck has no cheap healing or PC. It's totally unbalanced, especially at this cost. Put it together with Pests or Black Hole or EQ and your adversary can only watch himself slowly dying.

5 turns against a mono? What? Its like 2 or 3 unless they get an awful start. Now, that is still amazing, but not 5 turns amazing.

If it is so amazing, please do explain why decks with it aren't completely dominating all forms of pvp? I mean, entropy hasn't won a war in forever, and discoholes, while yes it does have crazy good lock down potential, simply isn't super amazing and falls flat against nova or immo rushes, who it can't deny creatures because of the nature of them.

[iancudorinmarian]

Finally, someone that gets it.

[Ghaladh]

This card is almost an automatic win against a mono or a duo if it comes out at first or second turn. It takes about 5 turns to put out enough pillars to make it useless and in that time span you can practically be killed if your deck has no cheap healing or PC. It's totally unbalanced, especially at this cost. Put it together with Pests or Black Hole or EQ and your adversary can only watch himself slowly dying.

5 turns against a mono? What? Its like 2 or 3 unless they get an awful start. Now, that is still amazing, but not 5 turns amazing.

If it is so amazing, please do explain why decks with it aren't completely dominating all forms of pvp? I mean, entropy hasn't won a war in forever, and discoholes, while yes it does have crazy good lock down potential, simply isn't super amazing and falls flat against nova or immo rushes, who it can't deny creatures because of the nature of them.

Each deck has its nemesis. I don't know that, so I am asking you: Since "Discoholes falls flat against nova or immo rushes", is it safe to assume that wars are usually won by those kind of decks that are the most used? I repeat: I don't know, I have no experience of wars, so I am just wondering.

[Cardplayer]

Discoholes or DBH also risks being countered by sanctuary (common in light monos and duos, especially in fire stall). Also Discohole risks the specific combo at the risk of being countered with other forms of quanta denial such as mono-dark. While DBH is a signature deck in BL, DBH has its own counters which are good in their own right and DBH relies on an early discord to be effective. While discord is a powerful card and very versatile, that's far from a reason it should be nerfed.

[Ginyu]

5 turns against a mono? What? Its like 2 or 3 unless they get an awful start. Now, that is still amazing, but not 5 turns amazing.

If it is so amazing, please do explain why decks with it aren't completely dominating all forms of pvp? I mean, entropy hasn't won a war in forever, and discoholes, while yes it does have crazy good lock down potential, simply isn't super amazing and falls flat against nova or immo rushes, who it can't deny creatures because of the nature of them.

5 turns are too many, but I think some guys do underestimate 2 or 3 turns in advantage, especially in rushier decks. And seriously... Discord IS dominating PvP. Ever played Leagues, where you have unrestricted PvP? You see DBH, Disco-Grabbows, Mono-Entropy and several other decks A LOT. Also, besides the fact that a single card can't win War on it's own for obvious reasons, Entropy did win a War.

Discoholes or DBH also risks being countered by sanctuary (common in light monos and duos, especially in fire stall).

Once again:

And Disco IS able to bring down stalls, if you simply don't let your opponent play a Sanc in time. Look at 12 Lives, iirc stalls were beaten by DBH most of the time.

Also disco can disrupt stalls quite effectively as stalls have lower quanta to deck size ratios for card advantage and larger deck sizes, making them often weak to a pre-sanc disco. I mean, during WC third place match both me and www3 used DBH as a soft-counter to Firestall.

[serprex]

Nerf that doesn't ruin discord: Have it shuffle each quanta individually. ie allow it to shuffle the same quantum multiple times. This is the accidental nerf which occurred in oetg since Calindu claimed that that's how the shuffling worked