[Official] Dimensional Shield | Phase Shield

[Keolino]

name any element, Ill tell you how to beat a dim chain with it.

I think, as soon as you have plenty of rares and some skill at deck-building, it isn't that hard to beat dim shields. The problem may be, that dim shield isn't a rare card? Its power may be compareable to shards and weapons.

Veterans like us may be able to know plenty of counters, and may know ways around that card.

The problem is with newer players who don't have much knowledge about the game, the cards and whatever.

Right now, every newbie will face AI3 at some point. And as soon as they do that, they will encounter dim shield chains. Any other easy-to-build deck type in the unupped rareless matter can be beaten with every normal-good deck, with a bit of luck.

But a dim-shield chain can only be beaten by a bunch of decks which newbies normally have. (Fire, Darkness, Gravity, Aether) If a newbie didn't pick the "right" element at the start, every encounter of a dim shield chain will mean an auto-loss for them. And they can't avoid them if they want to play AI3 or PVP1. (with 1.4, dims will at least be avoidable)

[Higurashi]

I don't know what you're responding to when you say you don't have trouble with it. I don't have trouble with it either. How is that relevant to any of my points?

Yes, if you read what I wrote there's a reason why I mentioned splashing (you did) and a reason why I argue for monos (design argument).

It's a good thing if it can beat some strategies and not some other ones. It's not a good thing if most strategies are hard countered by Dims. This forces the player to... you know what? I've already said this. Others have too.

Sadly they can't. Dims is only one card, but it's in Aether. Because of that it's incredibly hard to outlast a deck that knows what it's doing with Dims. Classic MA wins about 50% against this monolife stall I made with SoG's and Carapaces, but if it adds just 2 Fractals and a Psion it's over. Why can it do this? Because of what Dims offer.

I assume you haven't responded to most of my arguments as you haven't with most other ones made by other people here because you think the only meta that matters is upped and unrestricted. First of all, that's not true. Second of all, there's ALSO the problem of design. A problem you haven't addressed at all. At this point it's clear you're only reading/understanding/caring about half the points I and others are making, so I have to say I feel pretty much done trying to explain to you why this thread is valid. If you ignore a majority of the reasons and points, we can't get anywhere.

[storyteller]

I find those arguments irrelevant. as for DESIGN!!!
dim shield is fine, its not until people break the game by imposing limits on gameplay that its a problem.

oh, so you take one example deck, that can beat another deck, but if you change the second deck suddenly it wins... no kidding mate.

I think you are biased as master of aether, and you think this shield is just super great. Dim Shield is fine as is. Other cards will come into play, just new cards were introduced to Aether, giving a current, slight advantage. Remember, originally, Dim shield was one of the only things Aether had going for it. Time passed by, it got better cards. Now, perhaps, it has an edge. Thats normal, Aether is in flux. In time, other elements will get new cards and Aether will be out of swing. Dim Shield is fine in the long run, other elements will get new cards, there will be new counters. Dim Shield doesnt need a nerf.

[Higurashi]

Not the issue. The issue is that it's all in Aether to counter a counter to Monoaether, and the only reason it works is because of Dims (and Lightnings).

Dims aren't super great (I use Lightnings and Fractal quite a bit more). Dims are the hardest counter there is unless you pack a counter. That forces the player to do so, which makes many fun decks non-viable. That's a design problem, not necessarily balance (however, it says something about the current balance).

Ah, finally. So you agree Aether has an edge. That means this thread is valid because we're pushing to change that. In other words, we are trying to be the change you're talking about. At this point it comes down to you not wanting to change the current meta, but instead you want to wait until new counters arrive. That's simply a difference in methods and can be seen as completely rational. Trying to argue monotime can beat MA isn't. Trying to ignore the design problem isn't either. Do you know why?

Because no matter how many counters arrive, you're still going to be forced to pack them. The design problem with Dims will remain.

If a Shield like Hope was unconditional, it would have the same design problem. Can you see the difference between a design problem and a balance problem now?

[storyteller]

no, this thread is discuss a single card, not an entire element. nerfing aether should not be done by nerfing this single card. it has been stated that nerfing this card wont fx that problem. It will do little. dont ruin a good card because other elements need repair. you just stated that you  use very strong aether cards and not this holy uber shield. packing a shield counter is common sense. almost every deck you face has one.

nerfing dim shield will not fix this element or balance the entire game, it will only ruin a good card.

make new cards that strengthen other elements. leave dim shield alone.

(monotime can beat monoaether)

[jawdirk]

no, this thread is discuss a single card, not an entire element. nerfing aether should not be done by nerfing this single card. it has been stated that nerfing this card wont fx that problem. It will do little. dont ruin a good card because other elements need repair. you just stated that you  use very strong aether cards and not this holy uber shield. packing a shield counter is common sense. almost every deck you face has one.

nerfing dim shield will not fix this element or balance the entire game, it will only ruin a good card.

make new cards that strengthen other elements. leave dim shield alone.

(monotime can beat monoaether)

Dim shield would still be a good card if it lasted 2 turns. It would still do what it was intended to do, which is provide a chainable temporary shield against all normal creature damage. It would still see plenty of use because it would still be as efficient as nearly all of the existing shields (perhaps less efficient than permafrost shield, and on occasion less efficient than bone shield). It would have no great effect on the power of aether, since aether has many other strategies, and plenty of hard and soft CC.

[storyteller]

then nerfing it is pointless, because it is fine as is.

[jawdirk]

then nerfing it is pointless, because it is fine as is.

There is a huge difference between 3-turn and 2-turn dim shields. But 2-turn is still strong.

[storyteller]

It would have no great effect on the power of aether, since aether has many other strategies, and plenty of hard and soft CC.

but according to higs, the purpose is to fix aether.

[CuCN]

And does fixing aether not include changing aether cards?

[jawdirk]

It would have no great effect on the power of aether, since aether has many other strategies, and plenty of hard and soft CC.

but according to higs, the purpose is to fix aether.

You really should refrain from posting just to get in the last word. Try to post with some substance. What Higurashi posted is here for everyone to see. You don't need to paraphrase it, and we already know you don't favor a dim shield nerf.

My point is that aether could still stall effectively with a 2-turn dim shield, just not as efficiently. And aether has additional cards to round out its stall. Also, it wouldn't make aether a weak element because aether has strategies that don't require efficient stall. Aether would still be viable but some other elements would also be made more viable, not to mention that more duo combinations would be viable. That is exactly Higs' point regarding why nerfing dim shield would be a good design decision.

[storyteller]

I disagree, I think creating other cards in other elements to achieve design balance is a better way to go than nerfing this card.