[Official] Dimensional Shield | Phase Shield

[laxnut90]

The main issue with Dimensional Shield is that many of its counters are rare cards.  With all things being equal (i.e. player has access to all/some rare cards) I do not believe that the shield is overpowered.  However, for new players, this shield can be quite problematic.

To elaborate, here are the counters that new players have access to.


New Player Counters: Explosion, Butterfly Effect, Momentum, Steal, Psion

Of these, Butterfly Effect, Momentum and Psion can all be countered by a single Lobotomizer. 

Other potential counters such as Poison and Firestall are oftentimes too slow, especially if the Mono Aether is running a Wise Dragons build.


Now, let's see the counters available to players who have unlocked more rare cards.


Experienced Player Counters:  Explosion, Butterfly Effect, Momentum, Steal, Psion, Shard of Wisdom, Titan, Shard of Freedom, Shard of Focus, Pulverizer

Essentially, more than half of the counters to this particular shield are rare cards that new players will not have access to at the beginning.  Shard of Freedom and Shard of Wisdom basically have no counter in the Aether element and, therefore, are usually auto wins.  Titan also does not have an Aether counter, but is much slower.

Since half of this cards counters are restricted from them, I can understand why new players can be frustrated by this card.

I feel the best way to balance this card is to add a non-rare Permanent Control spell to another element.  Maybe a Rewind Permanent in Time Element.  Maybe add another buff to flooding that water creatures in a flooded territory can't be blocked. 

[eaglgenes101]

^Also charger. It's more of an experienced player's card, though. Then theres also UG.

[CuCN]

I think Charger is included in Momentum, and Catapult and UG are in the "other potential counters" that are regarded as "too slow".

[storyteller]

dim shield sucks.. it takes 6 card slots to worth taking.

its worthless vs a nuero-momentum deck, which requires 2 cards to stack damage

its useless vs a devo-stall

its worthless vs gravity decks

its worthless vs explosion heavy decks


dim shield is but one corner of a big elemental cycle of powerful cards that beat each other in turn


what you are arguing, is that rock is overpowered, because it beats scissors and ignoring paper


dim shield is weak to experienced players, except in a few situations


learn the balancing of elements and you will see its weakness easily

look how many people in this thread, who are arguing for a nerf, are new players, vs the dozens of experienced players who are telling you 'yeah, its a fun card, but its not that hard to beat'

Global Moderator Comment

You'll make a better point without personal attacks.

[OldTrees]

Worth considering: Could Dimensional shield be "OP" because the counters can be countered by things in element with Dimensional Shield?

Lobo .. Lightning .. You Lose.

It would make the Dim Shield + Lightning combo a candidate for an OP combo. Since Lightning is well balanced as seen when compared to its peers, the problem card in the combo would be Dim Shield. However since neither Lightning nor Lobotomize can deal with all of Dim Shields counters, we need to look at what they can't deal with to see if the combo is close enough to this description. PC, Spells and Deckout remain. PC and Deckout are still efficient against Dim Shield. I don't remember if UG or Bolts are still efficient against Dim Shield. As such I don't think that the MonoAether deck combo has enough counter counters to be considered problematic due to that feature alone.




@storyteller
Please be more polite. Your message will be more convincing if your audience does not feel attacked.

[Calindu]

Dim Shield doesn't fail to stalls anymore, FractalPsions can easily destroy a stall.

[omegareaper7]

dim shield is weak to experienced players, except in a few situations

I would like to make a mild correction here. Its not very good in unlimited settings. However, in restricted settings like war, it can easily be seen as overpowered.

[jawdirk]

I would like to make a mild correction here. Its not very good in unlimited settings. However, in restricted settings like war, it can easily be seen as overpowered.

Yes, after you restrict away shards, you eliminate many of its efficient counters, and you also eliminate shard of sacrifice, which is probably an over-all stronger card than dim shield.

I'm certain that you and storyteller have more experience than me in unlimited PvP. My suspicion is that dim shield is "not very good" there because nearly all of the good decks need to have a way to deal with shields in general. Would you consider any of the general-purpose shields to be good in unlimited PvP?

quityerbitchin n learn2play

Wow, you have a way with words. You sound like one of those old men who talk about how they had to walk to school through the snow uphill both ways. It must have been traumatic for you when you were a noob and had to learn to counter dim shield for the very first time. Fortunately, no one has to go through that again; we could just nerf dim shield, and then the game would be better.

[omegareaper7]

Generally in pvp, as far as i know at least, unless it is a dedicated stall I don't think shields are good. I for one rarely use them outside of poison dials or the fog shields in air decks/speedbows.
I'm sure there are others who could confirm or present a better argument saying otherwise. But as i see it, most of the standard pvp decks carry one or two ways around them and win more often then not if i'm not mistaken.

[jawdirk]

Generally in pvp, as far as i know at least, unless it is a dedicated stall I don't think shields are good. I for one rarely use them outside of poison dials or the fog shields in air decks/speedbows.
I'm sure there are others who could confirm or present a better argument saying otherwise. But as i see it, most of the standard pvp decks carry one or two ways around them and win more often then not if i'm not mistaken.

So to me, this is evidence that both dim shield and at least some of its counters are overpowered.  Fog shield is used because it is cheaper than explosion, etc., especially when powered with nova. Why would the decks carry one or two ways around shields if shields aren't used very much? Because (dim) shields are overpowered, and if your deck doesn't have one or two ways around shields, then it will lose to naive decks with dim shield.

[omegareaper7]

I don't know about others, but when i bring explosions/steals/pulverizers, its not only for dime shield. Its for other annoyances like dusk mantle, wings, weapons,  or if i deem it so, there pillars to slow them down. In some decks, like mono light, i don't concern myself at all with them, partially because it has no ways around them, and partially because i like to focus mono light more. Or steals in ghostmare, admittedly I do have them in mostly for dime shields, but they can have other uses as well.
But as i said, i can't speak for others.

[jawdirk]

I don't know about others, but when i bring explosions/steals/pulverizers, its not only for dime shield. Its for other annoyances like dusk mantle, wings, weapons,  or if i deem it so, there pillars to slow them down.

Yes, of course you would use your PC on any available target. But as you said, dusk mantle, wings, and weapons are "annoyances" but I submit that dim shield will wreck you if you don't counter it (as would hourglass, admittedly). Pillars are obviously a target of last resort unless your plan is quanta denial. You are losing the exchange when you blow up a pillar with explosion, but it is still better than having a dead explosion in your hand and excess quanta to cast it.

Would you mind posting the competitive mono-light deck that you spoke of?