[Official] Dimensional Shield | Phase Shield

[Scars]

Spoiler for Hidden:

Spoiler for Hidden:

Much too many people complain about this shield. Easy target for PC, if it isn't Enchanted, of course, but that only lasts for three turns.
Easily countered by: Deflagration / Explosion, Shard of Focus, Shard of Freedom, Shard of Wisdom, Steal / Improved Steal, and Momentum / Unstoppable. If your deck doesn't run any of those, a stall might be able to beat it.
The only thing that can hold a chain up from what I've seen - is a Duo, or mono Aether. Rainbows don't hold them up too good... But can do it if they wanted I guess...

Any deck that has enough aether can hold the chain I suppose...

The "it has a counter" argument is hardly a valid one. If I had a shield that costs 0 and prevents all damage and never leaves the field, it'd have the same counters but be considered laughably overpowered. Besides, not every element has access to some form of PC, and rare cards (half the provided counters) aren't always available to many players (plus many players in organized PvP dissallow them) Since the game is balanced based of PvP, thats something to keep in mind.

Dimensional shield, if nothing else, has such a huge impact on the game that it should be further examined by Zanzarino. Tons of hypothetical tests have been run. Tons of arguments have been made on both sides. But OP or not, everyone can agree that it is a powerful card, and everyone can agree that lots of people /think/ it's OP.

I agree to everything said, except there is no shield that costs 0 and never leaves the field and also, the shield does nothing and it is OP? it just sits there as a 0 costing never leaving shield? Combo that Dim shield with Graviton Salvager and it's practically GG, if you can keep the chain.
In organized PvP, Dim is usually banned, so your argument there, is invalid.
I didn't think it should be nerfed because: A. What are you going to change it to? An 8 quanta cost shield?
B. Everything HAS A COUNTER, and the game is well balanced. How do you plan to change this card if it were to be changed?

And also, sorry if I hurt your feelings, I don't mean to be an ass. =p

Take a guess at as to why it is banned during events.

Also, a nerf to two turns has been proposed for a long time now. And like has been mentioned, having a counter doesn't make something balanced.

Guessing banned because it's OP. Haha.

I've had some over looking the past 6 hours. I used to think all of the new players complained about Dim, but it seems the older players complain too <.>
A 2 turn shield for 6 Aether quanta... It feels so un real, like not normal to me, but I guess it makes it more even with the other shields.

[Naesala]

Much too many people complain about this shield. Easy target for PC, if it isn't Enchanted, of course, but that only lasts for three turns.
Easily countered by: Deflagration / Explosion, Shard of Focus, Shard of Freedom, Shard of Wisdom, Steal / Improved Steal, and Momentum / Unstoppable. If your deck doesn't run any of those, a stall might be able to beat it.
The only thing that can hold a chain up from what I've seen - is a Duo, or mono Aether. Rainbows don't hold them up too good... But can do it if they wanted I guess...

Any deck that has enough aether can hold the chain I suppose...

The "it has a counter" argument is hardly a valid one. If I had a shield that costs 0 and prevents all damage and never leaves the field, it'd have the same counters but be considered laughably overpowered. Besides, not every element has access to some form of PC, and rare cards (half the provided counters) aren't always available to many players (plus many players in organized PvP dissallow them) Since the game is balanced based of PvP, thats something to keep in mind.

Dimensional shield, if nothing else, has such a huge impact on the game that it should be further examined by Zanzarino. Tons of hypothetical tests have been run. Tons of arguments have been made on both sides. But OP or not, everyone can agree that it is a powerful card, and everyone can agree that lots of people /think/ it's OP.

I agree to everything said, except there is no shield that costs 0 and never leaves the field and also, the shield does nothing and it is OP? it just sits there as a 0 costing never leaving shield? Combo that Dim shield with Graviton Salvager and it's practically GG, if you can keep the chain.
In organized PvP, Dim is usually banned, so your argument there, is invalid.
I didn't think it should be nerfed because: A. What are you going to change it to? An 8 quanta cost shield?
B. Everything HAS A COUNTER, and the game is well balanced. How do you plan to change this card if it were to be changed?

And also, sorry if I hurt your feelings, I don't mean to be an ass. =p

*Points at big text*

My feelings aren't hurt, don't worry.

There have been many, many proposed nerfs, from increased costs to decreased number of turns. Some earlier simulations in this thread proved that a 2-turn Dim shield is still better than Dusk Shield almost all the time. As for your point B, like I said everything having a counter doesn't make it balanced. As another example, a creature with 200|200 and Momentum that has to wait a turn to attack is still countered by RT. That doesn't mean it is a balanced card.

[eaglgenes101]

It doesn't just have counters. It's expensive to maintain, vulnerable to control of all kinds, and needs to eat card space to be significant.
Oh, and I already pointed to a problem in the simulation. Namely, it's counting the wrong thing.

[jawdirk]

It doesn't just have counters. It's expensive to maintain, vulnerable to control of all kinds, and needs to eat card space to be significant.
Oh, and I already pointed to a problem in the simulation. Namely, it's counting the wrong thing.

What did you want the simulation to count? I think it was improved since then.

[eaglgenes101]

It doesn't just have counters. It's expensive to maintain, vulnerable to control of all kinds, and needs to eat card space to be significant.
Oh, and I already pointed to a problem in the simulation. Namely, it's counting the wrong thing.

What did you want the simulation to count? I think it was improved since then.

^Calculating total damage rather than damage speed isn't correct; It's like saying a 500 HP OTK will help kill better than a 100 HP OTK.

[jawdirk]

^Calculating total damage rather than damage speed isn't correct; It's like saying a 500 HP OTK will help kill better than a 100 HP OTK.

Later simulations also had win percentage as a metric. Surely you can agree that is important.

[Scars]

I'm now in agreement for the nerf =p
Maybe the something like this?

Spoiler for Hidden:

   

Sorry for the double permanent mark.

Or should it stay 2 and cost 5 ?

[andretimpa]

2 for 5

[the dictator]

I agree that dim shield needs a change, even if it isn't actually OP, it sure is borderline broken.
If you want any kind of proof, just take a look at the card usage stat page. I will just point to the most used unupped cards, besides quanta generators.

That said, I'm not sure it needs to be nerved to a 2 turn duration, at least not without a cost decrease. Another option would be 3 turns with a cost increase to 8|7 or even 9|8. Think of it this way, if it were to cost 2 extra quanta would you now consider it underpowered? If you answer is no, that probably means it's close to overpowered right now.

Increasing the cost would make it harder to chain, and it makes it harder to immediately put up a new shield when your opponent does pull some PC out. (because right now, a mono darkness with 3 steals still loses against a dim shield stall, simply because 3 turns of damage getting through aren't always enough, depending on what creatures you use in your deck).

[grimdragon64]

Honestly I just think it could have a cost increase.

[Captain Scibra]

Currently, the issue is a combination of two things:  Upkeep is 2 per turn (equals 6 at the end of the previous shield); and the total turns possible with just 6 copies (without using other cards to gain more copies) is 18 turns, of which is 75% (slightly more if you lose coin toss) of the turns given to a 30-card deck (without RT).

This gives us two parameters to balance, one based on card cost theory, the other meta theory.  What we need is to both decide what the per-turn value of Dimensional Shield is, and also the optimal number of turns that does not make the card too large in general for the meta.

[andretimpa]

The 18 turns thing is why I think it should last 2 turns. This way it is harder to chain them because you can't do it for so long and you draw less cards during the chain.