[Official] Dimensional Shield | Phase Shield

[jawdirk]

It is funny that whenever the commonity has finally voted that Dimension Shield is fine as it is, new thread about nerfing it will pop out immediately.

ps. I have no idea what you guys are talking about but it clearly has nothing to do with dimensional shields but keep talking. It sounds more interesting

It's the opposite. Once it has been firmly established that dim shield is overpowered and that nerfing it would be a good design decision, a bunch of members with no credibility start burying their refuted posts with off-topic posts.

[Keolino]

It's the opposite. Once it has been firmly established that dim shield is overpowered and that nerfing it would be a good design decision, a bunch of members with no credibility start burying their refuted posts with off-topic posts.

Both sides said what they wanted to say at some point, and both sides still stick to their own opinions. Further discussing is completely meaningless.

And by the way, the whole community is split in two at this topic. It was, at NO point, ever "firmly established that dim shield is OP"

[jawdirk]

It's the opposite. Once it has been firmly established that dim shield is overpowered and that nerfing it would be a good design decision, a bunch of members with no credibility start burying their refuted posts with off-topic posts.

Both sides said what they wanted to say at some point, and both sides still stick to their own opinions. Further discussing is completely meaningless.

And by the way, the whole community is split in two at this topic. It was, at NO point, ever "firmly established that dim shield is OP"

You're reducing your credibility. No evidence was ever supplied that dim shield is balanced -- just opinion and illogical arguments. There is actually data to support that dim shield is OP - simulations, usage statistics, not to mention tournament results.

[Keolino]

You're reducing your credibility. No evidence was ever supplied that dim shield is balanced -- just opinion and illogical arguments. There is actually data to support that dim shield is OP - simulations, usage statistics, not to mention tournament results.

You're reducing your cedibility. No evidence was ever supplied that dim shield is imbalanced -- just opinions and illogical arguments. There are more than enough counters to dim shield to actually make it OP. Just because a card is strong doesn't mean it's overpowered.

[serprex]

Early on in this thread it was declared counters don't imply balance. The only argument made against that was that people continued to post lists of counters. Citing http://elementscommunity.org/forum/nerf-this-card!/dimensional-shield/msg524011/#msg524011 http://elementscommunity.org/forum/nerf-this-card!/dimensional-shield/msg523935/#msg523935 http://elementscommunity.org/forum/nerf-this-card!/dimensional-shield/msg524195/#msg524195 (perhaps opinion http://elementscommunity.org/forum/nerf-this-card!/dimensional-shield/msg526835/#msg526835) http://elementscommunity.org/forum/nerf-this-card!/dimensional-shield/msg527197/#msg527197 http://elementscommunity.org/forum/nerf-this-card!/dimensional-shield/msg527251/#msg527251 http://elementscommunity.org/forum/nerf-this-card!/dimensional-shield/msg527233/#msg527233 http://elementscommunity.org/forum/nerf-this-card!/dimensional-shield/msg1018148/#msg1018148 http://elementscommunity.org/forum/nerf-this-card!/dimensional-shield/msg1056520/#msg1056520

& recently design issues have been pointed out. Better a card win 60% when uncountered and 40% when not than 90% when uncountered and 10% when not. Which may be putting it a bit simply, but I hope it gets the idea across. Essentially asking if we agree on "X or counter X" metas being stale

[omegareaper7]

You're reducing your credibility. No evidence was ever supplied that dim shield is balanced -- just opinion and illogical arguments. There is actually data to support that dim shield is OP - simulations, usage statistics, not to mention tournament results.

You're reducing your cedibility. No evidence was ever supplied that dim shield is imbalanced -- just opinions and illogical arguments. There are more than enough counters to dim shield to actually make it OP. Just because a card is strong doesn't mean it's overpowered.

Actually there WAS evidence, jawdirk did several tests and even has them posted in the thread on earlier pages.
Counters are not an argument to something not being overpowered either.

[Keolino]

You're reducing your credibility. No evidence was ever supplied that dim shield is balanced -- just opinion and illogical arguments. There is actually data to support that dim shield is OP - simulations, usage statistics, not to mention tournament results.

You're reducing your cedibility. No evidence was ever supplied that dim shield is imbalanced -- just opinions and illogical arguments. There are more than enough counters to dim shield to actually make it OP. Just because a card is strong doesn't mean it's overpowered.

Sadly I have to see that you don't even understand what I am trying to say.... I will try to make it clear:

I would also be for nerfing dim shield. I really don't like this card. And yeah, I think it is OP. But still:

Both sides said what they wanted to say at some point, and both sides still stick to their own opinions. Further discussing is completely meaningless.

And I just fail to understand how you can say that it's been "made clear that dim shield is OP" when there are enough people around who think that it is fine as it is. You just declare your own reasoning as fact and ignore others...

[jawdirk]

And I just fail to understand how you can say that it's been "made clear that dim shield is OP" when there are enough people around who think that it is fine as it is. You just declare your own reasoning as fact and ignore others...

You have to decide which is more credible: evidence, or people with no evidence saying "the evidence doesn't convince me." The opinion of someone who is unswayed by evidence is irrelevant.

[Keolino]

Well I guess that's the difference than I would actually choose "people with no evidence saying "the evidence doesn't convince me"" over evidence. Why? Because if I would feel that a card is ok as it is then there would be probably no evidence in the world that would be able to convince me. Feelings (and personal opinion) are more accurate than evidence (which can either be made up for what fits your own opinion better, or can be wrong, or can lead you to the wrong conclusion).

So yeah, I think "the opinion of someone who is unswayed by evidence" is way more important than evidence. Because personal opinion is the mirror of your feelings and your feelings can't lie.

(Well I guess that is ideology which nobody would be able to discuss about. You can either think that way or don't do so.)

[jawdirk]

That is a funny thing to believe given that there are billion dollar industries founded on manipulating opinion and emotion. But we digress. This is a thread about presenting evidence on the question of whether dim shield should be nerfed. If you think opinion is important then post a link to a poll. Then readers can decide whether your poll is evidence.

[Keolino]

That is a funny thing to believe given that there are billion dollar industries founded on manipulating opinion and emotion.

Funny, they are manipulating opinion und emotion by making up wrong evidence/telling only the evidence which is useful to them. And hoping that people will only listen to the evidence which is provided rather than their own thoughts.

If you think opinion is important then post a link to a poll. Then readers can decide whether your poll is evidence.

Why should I do that. I don't care that much about this thread. I just like to argue with you And one more thing. It's only a thread about a really little small part of a GAME. Nothing to get that serious about. You are talking like it's a war which you have to win no matter what.

[jawdirk]

That is a funny thing to believe given that there are billion dollar industries founded on manipulating opinion and emotion.

Funny, they are manipulating opinion und emotion by making up wrong evidence/telling only the evidence which is useful to them. And hoping that people will only listen to the evidence which is provided rather than their own thoughts.

People aren't manipulated using evidence, they are manipulated using appeal to emotion. The only reason people are satisfied with incomplete or fabricated evidence is because they don't want to change their minds by actually seeking out and thinking about the totality of the evidence.

If you think opinion is important then post a link to a poll. Then readers can decide whether your poll is evidence.

Why should I do that. I don't care that much about this thread.

Then stop posting drivel in it. Some of us here would actually like to improve the game.

I just like to argue with you And one more thing. It's only a thread about a really little small part of a GAME. Nothing to get that serious about. You are talking like it's a war which you have to win no matter what.

That's fine. I like to argue too. But if you're going to argue, contribute something that furthers the topic, or start a new thread in Off-topic discussions. I don't have any respect for people who have nothing better to do with their time than type garbage into a post box.