[Official] Dimensional Shield | Phase Shield

[kimham8a]

Would someone please post a good MA so I could test/simulate games? I disagree that those decks would fail against MA, and I also have a few different MT I'd like to try (all built to fight many decks, not just MA).

[OldTrees]

Spoiler for Hidden:

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

6qq 6qq 6rm 6rm 6rm 6rm 6rm 6rm 6rt 6rt 6rt 6rt 6rt 6rt 6s3 6s3 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q1 7q8 7q8 7q9 7q9 7q9 7q9 7q9 7q9 8pq

Time's weapon has the special power to prevent deck out indefinitely, baring the use of certain cards that are not aether. Time also has the incredible stalling tool that is sundial. Add in some Shards of Stallpower, and we have a deck that ignores dim shields. 6 SoS + 6 Sundials + 2 SoBe = about two turns of being unprotected, assuming the opponent has a 30 card deck (which is pretty reasonable assumption when talking about the power of dim shield chaining). Looking at the deck majofa posted, it doesn't appear stand a chance without foreknowledge that this deck uses SoS. Adding more lobos + lightnings since this is a shard deck doesn't help his odds any. Meanwhile, the decks that I thought of when I heard the words "standard mono aether" are probably doomed even with that hint.

The ultimate counter to self-bouncing. If you bring a situational counter, let me bring a situational counter, too. Eh, the mono-time thing was directed at frimax. Now let's resume to the normal discussion. 

Silence does not work vs DejaVu Eternity.
The Time deck merely uses DejaVu prior to rewind to create backup Rewind targets in case of Silence.

Back to the discussion
For people who think Dim Shield is OP:
Please use a comparison or other argument that can be used to find a balanced price.
(People can find majofa's in his systematic rebalancing thread)

For people who think Dim Shield is balanced:
Make a comparison or other argument that demonstrates balance.
Please do not use the "There exist counters" fallacy.

[rosutosefi]

Place 12 damage (Psion + Alternating Phasies) on the board -> Bomb everything when in range or silence, or both to win. Super simple stuff.
But hey, let's stop this mono argument now. It was directed at frimax when he argued that monos can be effective against Dims. Now you add shards to everything. I hate you, you're just adding more salt to the wound. D:
Let's listen to a wonderful story instead:

Spoiler for How Dimensional Shield indirectly changed Elements: The Game:

Following the end of the tyrannical rule of pre-1.29 Immolation and Deflags, the legendary Dimensional Shield started its reign on everything. Every War General knows about its power, and thus started to worship it with all their hearts. They knew this was a problem, and they had to voice out. They asked the great Zanzarino for a counter to this "perfectly balanced" shield, but the people insisted that the said "perfectly balanced" shield is, well, perfectly balanced. People who said that the shield was overpowered were ridiculed and lynched by others, and this shows the horrible tyranny of the Dimensional Shield. Still, more and more people continued to hate it, and thus formed the Rebel Alliance against the Dim Noobs.

More and more people tried to convince the Dim Shield supporters that the shield was indeed overpowered, and eventually the Dim Shield supporters said that Dim Shield was indeed a problem. But they say that the great Dim Shield is not overpowered, but it is only a problem due to the other elements lacking the shiny thing called Permanent Control, which was pioneered by the legendary 1 Explosion. And so the great Zanzarino heard the prayers of the people and granted the ultimate counter to dim shield: Tons and tons of Permanent Control.

Look how magnificent it is. It's perfectly balanced like the Dimensional Shield, too!

TL;DR: Adding permanent control was proven to be ineffective in nerfing the Dim Shield. Adding permanent control will only make the other permanents underpowered and will make the Dim shield balanced. In the end, Dim Shield will always be overpowered compared to the others even if you add PC to ALL the cards.

[kimham8a]

Place 12 damage (or 13, Psion + Alternating Phasies) on the board -> Bomb everything when in range or silence, or both to win. Super simple stuff.
But hey, let's stop this mono argument now. It was directed at frimax when he argued that monos can be effective against Dims. Now you add shards to everything. I hate you, you're just adding more salt to the wound. D:
Let's listen to a wonderful story instead:

Spoiler for How Dimensional Shield indirectly changed Elements: The Game:

Following the end of the tyrannical rule of pre-1.29 Immolation and Deflags, the legendary Dimensional Shield started its reign on everything. Every War General knows about its power, and thus started to worship it with all their hearts. They knew this was a problem, and they had to voice out. They asked the great Zanzarino for a counter to this "perfectly balanced" shield, but the people insisted that the said "perfectly balanced" shield is, well, perfectly balanced. People who said that the shield was overpowered were ridiculed and lynched by others, and this shows the horrible tyranny of the Dimensional Shield. Still, more and more people continued to hate it, and thus formed the Rebel Alliance against the Dim Noobs.

More and more people tried to convince the Dim Shield supporters that the shield was indeed overpowered, and eventually the Dim Shield supporters said that Dim Shield was indeed a problem. But they say that the great Dim Shield is not overpowered, but it is only a problem due to the other elements lacking the shiny thing called Permanent Control, which was pioneered by the legendary 1 Explosion. And so the great Zanzarino heard the prayers of the people and granted the ultimate counter to dim shield: Tons and tons of Permanent Control.

Look how magnificent it is. It's perfectly balanced like the Dimensional Shield, too!

TL;DR: Adding permanent control was proven to be ineffective in nerfing the Dim Shield. Adding permanent control will only make the other permanents underpowered and will make the Dim shield balanced. In the end, Dim Shield will always be overpowered compared to the others even if you add PC to ALL the cards.

Loved the story so much, made me really want to believe your argument. 

[eaglgenes101]

Let's just stick more PC into the game.

[Pineapple]

Let's just stick more PC into the game.

Because cards like Gravity Shield, Empathic Bond, and Nightfall are just sooo OP, right?

[justaburd]

Let's just stick more PC into the game.

Because cards like Gravity Shield, Empathic Bond, and Nightfall are just sooo OP, right?

Because that's all you use PC for, right?

[Cheesy111]

Let's just stick more PC into the game.

Because cards like Gravity Shield, Empathic Bond, and Nightfall are just sooo OP, right?

Let's assume all creatures are Graviton Mercenaries. 

[rosutosefi]

Let's just stick more PC into the game.

Shard of Focus. I wish you read the TL;DR part of my post.

[OldTrees]

Adding PC if PC did not exist would nerf Permanents.
Adding balanced PC to a game that already has PC would not nerf Permanents.
Adding OP PC to a game would nerf Permanents but would not balance Permanents relative to each other.
If Dim Shield is OP then PC is not related to the answer.

[eaglgenes101]

If Dim Shield is OP then PC is not related to the answer.

Is it?

[rosutosefi]

EDITED for something more constructive. 

Just like what I said before, if you add PC to everything, the other permanents will suffer more compared to Dimensional Shield. Even if every element has PC, it still won't be logical if you try to bring 6 copies of it every game. And if you do bring 6, this weakens all other permanents in the metagame. We all want to nerf the incredibly OP Mindgate and Empathic Bond, right? If every element can bring 2-3 PC cards, can the other shields do anything? Would that make Gravity shield or Procrastination become balanced with the great praiseworthy Dimensional Shield? No, it won't. It will only increase the gap between these shields. I do not like the "add this card to nerf that" stuff people talk about. Most of the time, it will only wreck more things, and if it doesn't, we'll have to welcome a new hate card. One more Holy Light / Purify type card please.