Vault building and decks

[Bonestorm]

Rawr. First up I took a look at the game's good old grabbow, they're a flexible use on cards, graboid is frankly OP, and blessing + graboid might just be the sexiest combo ever @ 11|6. I'm not all sure how the novanerf is gonna affect use of grabbows in this war since that first turn splurge of card drop was so deliciously powerful (needed 3nova anyway, you can use 2 unupped nova per turn now) and now the graboid has to come on turn 2 with evolves on 3, anyhow this deck is still a very powerful option with creatures that come out fast and have good staying power. You can switch to blessing peggys after game1 if you're up against no hard CC to pump out extra damage. Also this has reminded me just how strong solar buckler can be in mono/near mono, the quanta return is often really quite ridiculous! So flexible can even add 1 or 2x Fog shield as another option from buckler in place of rainbow crits and add another blessing, as fog can really be the most amazing card.

Spoiler for Grabooz:

v6

by Bonestorm

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v3

by Bonestorm

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v2

by Bonestorm

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Spoiler for Firestall:

by Bonestorm

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by Bonestorm

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[xdude]

Spoiler for Hidden:

Rawr. First up I took a look at the game's good old grabbow, they're a flexible use on cards, graboid is frankly OP, and blessing + graboid might just be the sexiest combo ever @ 11|6. I'm not all sure how the novanerf is gonna affect use of grabbows in this war since that first turn splurge of card drop was so deliciously powerful and now it comes on turn 2 with evolves on 3, anyhow this deck is still a very powerful option with creatures that come out fast and have good staying power. You can switch to blessing peggys after game1 if you're up against no hard CC to pump out extra damage. Also this has reminded me just how strong solar buckler can be in mono/near mono, the quanta return is often really quite ridiculous! So flexible can even add 1 or 2x Fog shield as another option from buckler in place of rainbow crits and add another blessing, as fog can really be the most amazing card.

Spoiler for Grabooz:

v6

by Bonestorm

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v3

by Bonestorm

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v2

by Bonestorm

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Personally, I'm not sold of Grabby decks in general, but in unupped play I think we need one because they're just so damn good.

And yes, Solar Bucklers are awesome. They are so awesome that I would even suggest we replace up to 3 Pillars with them in any deck without a shield, maybe except the rushes (but we can still use 1-2 there!). It might seem counter-intuitive (3 shields!?) but getting one early against a deck that plays some mildly fast creatures is more or less trainer-level quanta hax.


Because of technical issues (pine cannot access typewithme in China) we have moved to a nearly identical chat room on another website: http://sync.in/Lightisawesomeandwillwinthewarfuckyeah


Working on compiling all decks and adding them to the OP.

[xdude]

Spoiler for Crusader decks - AW versions:

by xdude

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by xdude

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[bjessee]

Once again, sorry for not being more active these past several days.  Here are some of my thoughts.

1.  We should not overly rely on any cards.  We had that issue last war with GotP and Reverse Time.  It makes discarding tough since you start losing all the support cards.

2.  We start with two relics, so we have the ability for at least a couple of upped cards in each deck.  That makes Flying Weapon and Guardian Angel far more useful.  But if we start losing them....

3.  We should consider how our vault will change as the war progresses.  For instance, Lollerhope should do well, but what cards can we use if it loses?  Are some decks only viable with sufficient upgrades?

Here is one deck idea I had.  I have not had the opportunity to test it.

Spoiler for Light/Air:

by bjessee

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Wings can be devastating against a bunch of decks.  I have not tested it or, obviously, fine tuned it, but it can be very flexible.  It can run with more Archangels, more Owl's Eyes and Flying Weapons, Crusaders (they inherit Ranged from Owl's Eye in case someone steals Wings).  We could try Shockwaves for more CC.

I will try to test it and come up with more ideas tonight/tomorrow.

[bjessee]

Derp.  I thought I had read all of the posts in here.

Spoiler for Neurodial:

by bjessee

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I am not a big fan of Procrastination, and Dials have the added benefit of helping out with a bad draw.  I tried using Novas, but I could not find one that I liked as much.  We might be able to throw in a Solar Shield, but I think that might just slow it down.

Spoiler for Raging Angels:

by bjessee

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Tried it with Seraphs.  When they work, they hit really hard and are hard to kill.  The deck became unreliable needing all that fire quanta, and they died first turn as often as not.  I also tried it with four Guardian Angels, and it was not as terrible as I expected.  It might need a Morning Star and maybe another Miracle to make sure you draw it.

I tried Angels and Accelartions, but it just did not work.  It was too slow, and losing the Heal skill sucked.

Spoiler for Life/Light:

by bjessee

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Not really all that good, but it was a lot of fun to play.

Has anyone tried Seraph with a firestall?  There has to be some way to use him.

Should we look at including Lobotomizer with RoL/Hope?  It will help with momentum and other annoying skills.  And it gives us another toy to use with Crusaders.

[xdude]

Spoiler for Hidden:

Derp.  I thought I had read all of the posts in here.

Spoiler for Neurodial:

by bjessee

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I am not a big fan of Procrastination, and Dials have the added benefit of helping out with a bad draw.  I tried using Novas, but I could not find one that I liked as much.  We might be able to throw in a Solar Shield, but I think that might just slow it down.

Testing showed that Neural decks are generally too slow to be useful and too prone to bad draws. While Sundial help with the Draws, I don't believe they provide nearly the same level of defense. In general, while this deck sure has some good parts, it is (I believe) not good enough to put in the Vault given that we can realistically only fit 8 or so decks in there. Also, as a side note, Solar Buckler's effect is cancelled by Sanctuaries, so that's another no-go.

Spoiler for Raging Angels:

by bjessee

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Tried it with Seraphs.  When they work, they hit really hard and are hard to kill.  The deck became unreliable needing all that fire quanta, and they died first turn as often as not.  I also tried it with four Guardian Angels, and it was not as terrible as I expected.  It might need a Morning Star and maybe another Miracle to make sure you draw it.

We will be having this deck by default, as we will have both Angels and Rage Potions (from Firestall). We should probably also add some Deflags in the Vault as they are awesome.

I tried Angels and Accelartions, but it just did not work.  It was too slow, and losing the Heal skill sucked.

Spoiler for Life/Light:

by bjessee

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Not really all that good, but it was a lot of fun to play.

Sadly, as you point out, not all that good

Has anyone tried Seraph with a firestall?  There has to be some way to use him.

It probably only slows us down/gives the deck another vulnerability. All the cards in Fire Stall have stalling capacity, except Fahrens, but those deal beastly amounts of damage. Not a big fan of using Seraph in Light decks, because the ability is nothing spectacular. IMO that is another semi-vanilla card to an element that needs it least. However, that is another discussion for another day

Should we look at including Lobotomizer with RoL/Hope?  It will help with momentum and other annoying skills.  And it gives us another toy to use with Crusaders.
That would be a pretty good idea, but we are already low on Aether quanta as modding the deck for use as Light kind of makes it worse

My comments in colored text

[bjessee]

Since we had Photons for RoL/Hope, I thought a couple of Immo decks might be worth looking at.

Spoiler for ImmoPhoenix:

by bjessee

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It can run pretty quickly with a good draw, and I am sure it can be tuned better.  Very susceptible to Bone Walls and Reverse Time.  Immo and Deflag nerfs took a toll.  I did not try with Minor Phoenixes, because I like the durability of Elite Pegasi.

I tried making an Immo deck with Golems and an Earth mark thinking I could work in some Grabboids, but there was not room for everything and 15 Light cards.  While you can play one Golem per Immo, the one I was trying just was not as good as the Phoenixes.  Anyone else got one that works?

I think I am out of steam for ideas.  Let us know, chief, which decks you plan on including, and we will get together and tweak them and put them through their paces against previous wars' decks.

[xdude]

Well...

This is by no means final and I can change my mind and am open to proposals as usual, but I was thinking at:

• Fire Stall
• Immortal
• RoL/Hope
• VaderSader
• other sader decks (mainly weapons)
• Grabbow(?)
• TU/Phase Shield Duo

As you can see, those are only 7 decks. We can either add another stall (Watter Stall is kickass, we haven't experimented with Entropy stall enough (but I feel it can't work with half Light)) or another deck if somebody has a brilliant idea (for example, a duo with Toadfishes for rushing, not the best tho IMO because it has the same weaknesses a mono Light has) or we can add a lot of Fillers and Light cards.


Personally, I think those 7 deck are more or less all we need so far, we can probably adapt to the metagame later using salvage. Looking forward to your input on this.


On an unrelated note, I got vrt to 'play with' an idea of mine for the Light banner .

[DevilLoss]

This is xdudes list,
1.Fire Stall
2.Immortal
3.RoL/Hope
4.VaderSader
5.other sader decks (mainly weapons)
6.Grabbow(?)
7.TU/Phase Shield Duo

 And here are my thoughts.
fire stall: is powerful but There are many counters to it and decks that have the ability to beat it I feel it's even more powerful but also not as powerful as it used to be. and that is because of how powerful it is A lot of war groups have made counters to it. So I think it can work it depends on who we use it agiasnt.

Immortal: One of the best stalls for sure specially with a good hand it's a must have and it can be used agiasnt a ton of diffrent elements.

Rol/Hope: not sold on this because it requires a number of ups before being playable. and I feel the unuped verison just doesnt work.

VaderSader: its a great deck but I feel titan crusader beats it in speed otherwise I feel this should be able to beat a number of decks only problem would be CC.

Titan crusader, and some other crusader decks are a must just because of how powerful they are.

Grabbow: not sold on it because of the recent nerfs I feel a air/light duo of pegasus wings and oe's would be better.

aetherstall: In any form this deck is powerful even more so with the verison xdude made in trails.

So here is my list of decks that I think we should use,
1. Immortal.
2. crusader decks vadersader+momentus crusader.
3. aether stall.
4. air duo decks.
5. firestall.
6. poison decks weither it's normal poison or neuro poison.

[Pineapple]

Since the only noticeable nerf on grabbow is deflag (only rarely do you get 3 novas and a graboid on the first turn), and deflag is easily replace-able with momentums, I have reason to believe that grabbow did not take as much as a hit as DevilLoss suggests.

In addition, RoL/Hope is a very powerful tool for xdude in that it has few counters, most of which (e.g. thunderstorm, fire shield, momentum) are usually not splashed by off-element teams.

Also, if we're using Firestall and Arsenics (for grabbow), we might as well add some more arsenics and some bonewalls for a Poison Stall or even the Arsenic-Sader deck xdude posted.

Are we relying on Titan-Saders/Grabbow for rushing, or should we add blessed peggies?

[Bonestorm]

Yeah the nerf to nova is pretty small on effect. Also there are other things to consider i.e. novabow is often effective vs devourers or discord for example.

I agree on the usefulness of rol/hope too, it is a stall that often cannot be broken by some regular stallbreaking methods & can hold up well to PC. 

[Newbiecake]

I don't think anyone's going to play denial against us, just cuz we're Light. But yeah, Grabbows are always strong. We can have maybe 1-2 decks worth of Grabbow goodies in the Vault, excluding Novas since we will get a lot of them from salvages for sure.

Only ways to break stalls: quanta denial, bigger stall, growers, and in RoL's case mass CC. The only ways to really us with the above is mass CC and quanta denial, the other two ways we can handle since it takes time (a long time) to accelerate past Hope, and RoL is a Charger deck so we will have lots of dragons to hammer down opposing stalls. So yeah, I think it would be great for xdude and Bonestorm to use it.